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Just up the road from where the Lytle Creek GPAA claims are they have a few near Coolgardie. When I got there the temperature was around 39 with a little bit of wind. I bundled and my hands in gloves still ached from the cold. I went to a patch where we had great success for a couple of years but I managed yet another skunk after using the 7000 only for 10 hours. There were days in the past when I got as many as 12 nuggets on a trip. I tried hard in the wet ground and found lots of trash, some very tiny but no tiny gold from the old places or newly opened ground. I did manage to get some nice pictures of our deserts which isn't New Zealand but not too bad either. I enjoyed the day. Click on the panoramas for best viewing. They get a little bigger.8 points
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Because of heat waves, vehicle trouble and well, almost a complete lack of motivation, I have done very little detecting this year. In the early days of the 5000 I got the bigger speci at Moliagul and it`s got about half a gram of gold in it. Since then I have gone over and over and over that area with the 5000, 2300 and 7000 for no result. Yesterday I was out there again and about 15 feet from the first specimen, I got the smaller one with the 7000. Very faint signal that just broke the threshold and about 6" deep. The bottom picture is the only bit of gold visible in it and is almost impossible to see with the naked eye, but the signal it`s giving off says there`s maybe a half a gram to a gram of gold in it. Once the better half has seen it I`m going to bust it open to see what`s inside but I think with this one I`m going to end up with a heap of small bits of quartz with a little bit of gold in them. Dave7 points
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Hello all and there are some good points and discussion in this thread and I thought I'd jump in for a chat... Feel free to ask questions as the more you know the better you can make your own decision whether you think the new GOLD EXTREME coils are for you. from this thread the main queries are: Why aren't the new coils water-proof? We thought long and hard about this and decided to not epoxy fill the 10x5" coil due to extra time and weight from this and essentially if you wish to keep the unit water-proof then keep the 8" coil on or revert back to this. (time and more materials mean more $$$) For those that hunt the water this (8") is all you need. But you never know what the future holds... Warranty - is it voided? the short answer is no but as Gerry stated in a previous reply as long as there is no misuse or damage made during the conversion. Like any product under warranty - if it is deemed a fault of the user then it will not be covered. our coils come with a 2 year warranty - if you have an issue with our product we deal with that separately - if you have a warranty issue with the SDC unit itself revert the unit back to standard and send it back to Minelab - simple. Does the conversion require any hard modification to the unit? NO. there is no cutting, slicing, cracking or any type of firm modification required. Just undo two hex screws, undo two flat head screws, help the plug around the corner in the shaft and drop the coil away - then attach our shaft piece using the clamp and screws we supply, wrap the cable around the shaft like a GPX unit or any other treasure detector, plug in and screw up the plug collar, install the Coiltek cover over this area and use the hex screws you took out before to tighten up the cover over the plug area. turn on and go! Why does the cable wrap around the shaft and not go in the middle? We didn't want to complicate the install. I am sure even Minelab would say that getting the cable up the shaft and around the elbow of the unit is tricky and requires a cap and ball chain to pull it around. We supply a cap and ball chain in our attachment kit so you can get the unit back to standard whenever you want. Essentially we didn't want to have a user make the cable go up the shaft every time they want to change a coil, its far easier to interchange coils like we have made it. How does the shaft work? It has been designed to fit straight in to the carbon shaft once the standard coil is removed. the holes line up and the clamp we supply fits to help keep it in place. one of the main benefits of this shaft attachment is it now makes the unit around 4-5 inches longer so if you are 6'2" or there abouts the unit is now extended and when I hunt with it I no longer feel like i am stooping or at risk of stepping on the coil (figure of speech!) We will have a full attachment video coming out soon which will help guide you through the fitment process. So in short we have thought long and hard about this set up and certainly spent a lot of effort creating the right shaft attachment. Of course no one is forcing anyone to buy the coils and if you think they are not for you then this is perfectly fine. Coiltek is all about providing more options for the Minelab Detectors as this is what we do and I for one am excited to see these coils get out into the market and start to provide the user with more coverage, more depth, more opportunity and hopefully more gold! Trevor.6 points
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Jinmon, Good to see your getting all that birdshot and lead, everything is working right, you just need to get the coil over gold. Lytle Creek- I used to go there in the 80's and shoot and pan for gold. Is everyone and their brother in southern california still using it as a shooting range?? They should change the name to Lead Creek. If you dont get out more than 3 or 4 hours away from the citys in california, your gonna come across so much trash and bullets with a detector it will drive you crazy..... Dave6 points
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For me the key to using ground tracking is that the ground must be highly variable. It is not how highly mineralized the ground is but how variable it is that matters. If the ground is relatively homogenous I don’t see a need to track the ground and in fact I would tend to recommend against it. In very low mineral / low salt ground there may not be enough mineral content to track to and the machine could run away with itself as you have described.5 points
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Tracking can mess you up if you're detecting around a lot of iron as the detector will start to track to the iron (nails). I've found that unless I'm hunting in highly variable mineralized ground, the detector works best by doing a manual GB, or just turning it on and hunting works better than using tracking.4 points
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Great work Julie. It really is all about being able to detect tiny non-ferrous targets. People tend to get annoyed by lead but looking at your finds tells me A. You are doing great at figuring the Equinox out and B. The location you are detecting, if gold bearing, still has gold left. You can’t get all the gold and leave the lead behind. Of course if the location has no gold that’s another story. I treat aluminum the same way when jewelry detecting. If I am detecting a park or sport field and can’t find much if any aluminum, somebody has hit it hard. That rarely happens but I have encountered it. It still amazes me how many 1970s era ring tabs are easily found in most locations however.... an obvious sign of low pressure jewelry detecting. Seriously, you are doing great. You just need to get over that nugget!4 points
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Your detector would work considerably better with a compass mounted top of the control box and in line with the shaft. Then simply sweep a large circle until your compass points North, proceed about 200 miles while paying close attention to the compass and then start detecting. I hope this helps.4 points
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Sometimes a good thing comes along from “outside”. Smart companies see the possibility and acquire the foreign development. That’s exactly what happened here. Alexandre Tartar, the prime developer, posted on Carl Moreland’s Geotech forum and they got in touch. The project was promising enough for Tom Walsh the CEO to open his purse and do an “aquihire” of the “EuroTeam” who developed the Manta. They have huge ambitions and hopefully this will be the first of a series of ground-breaking (literally - lol) developments.3 points
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Julie, master your machine, employ the operating tips found in "Advanced Nuggetshooting," at the locations shown in "Gold Nugget Areas of Southern California," and one day, while digging a target, cursing those lying members of this forum who falsely claim they have found gold with a detector, as you spot that golden gleam in your palm, the dark clouds above you will part, the heavens will open, streams of light will beam down upon you, and you will hear the Hallelujah chorus, and all will be well in your corner of the world. :} Or, if the foregoing doesn't actually happen, you'll likely shout "Well, its ABOUT TIME"" HH Jim3 points
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Thanks @phrunt! ? I’m frustrated that I haven’t found any gold but I also know switching up the locations and only spending a few hours is not the most efficient way to locate gold on a claim. ? I’m actually pretty pleased that I can find small metal bits now - I have WAY more confidence in my detector now that I know I’m supposed to be digging those non-displayed targets. I was worried I just hadn’t set up my detector properly for the soil or something. Now I’m like “nahhhh, I got this.” I might not have it set up perfectly (I’d bet on that) but at least if I can find small metal bits (and a beer can at like 18” down!) I feel WAY more confident that I won’t be missing everything good! ? -Julie3 points
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Hi all, This is my first post here but been lurking for a while.It's not often that you can pin a find to the owner but this is exactly what happened after I unearthed this gold medallion from pasture on a farm near my home.It gave a solid 18 on field 1.I live in south wales u.k..On the front is a name and the reverse gives details of a walk that it was presented for.After getting home I did some research and uncovered this news article from a local paper dated 1903.The last sentence gives the name D.T. Davies and the time of 7Hrs 1 Min as detailed on the medallion.I then searched the 1901 census for Builth Wells and found details of his address and family.He was one of nine children and an apprentice tailor.Now this medallion was found 50 miles away from Builth Wells so how did it get there?I then searched a later census for the village near to the find and discovered that the family had moved here at a later date.Anyway to cut a long story short he got married here,had nine children of his own and died in 1954.I also discovered a nice victorian shilling on the same day.I have had the nox since October and I have found a lot of silver with it including william 3rd shilling,william 3rd sixpence and a george 3rd shilling to name a few.Thanks Minelab for a great machine.I love it!2 points
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So I’ve taken my Equinox 800 out a few times but not for long each time and to different claims each time - so I’m telling you, I’m an expert, and you can believe me when I say there’s no gold in California. Hey, I’ve even tried gold panning for a few minutes - nope, no gold. So at the Fresno gold show, I played along with the conspiracy and went to Kevin Hoagland’s talk about metal detecting for gold - you know, in states where there IS gold. And he said to dig the targets that don’t even show up as numbers on my detector’s screen. Well, that can’t be right, because otherwise why would they give me a screen with numbers? But anyway, I decided that IF he was right, maybe I could at least find some small pieces of lead or something with the same technique. So I set out to find the tiniest piece of birdshot I could find. I mean, I WOULD have looked for gold but we all know that’s a crock. SUCCESS!!! That Kevin guy might know a thing or two about metal detecting for lead, if only he’d stop pretending he’s talking about gold. Check out my haul from a few hours in the claims at Cajon Pass (note this is only the small stuff - I was already an expert in finding shell casings from an hour on Lytle Creek):2 points
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Be sure and turn on the English subtitles under the video settings if you don't know the language. Nokta/Makro Simplex Data & User Reviews2 points
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Quit worrying about money and enjoy spending some there--- the Aussies need the cash,,,, be a sport....and relax....enjoy,,,,and find some dam gold!!!! Try not to focus on how much it costs or you wont be happy while youre there-IMO ( i just come back home and try to make some more to take back to my Aussie blokes! next year!! hahahaha)2 points
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Yeah, I have followed it closely. I set up a reviews page about it back in December... There are multiple threads about the Tarsacci on the Metal Detector Advice & Comparisons Forum including this one. Goldbrick also reported here. Impulse AQ - I like it. Referential to the old Fisher Impulse. If the machine is even remotely as pictured I will probably get one. It may not be designed for dry land use in extreme ground but there is plenty of ground in Nevada that is relatively mild but which does have a lot of alkali salt in the ground, maybe a few hot rocks. If nothing else it looks like a killer Lake Tahoe detector.2 points
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The discussion went crazy on the Prospecting Forum so here is the link. I will move it all here to the Minelab Forum once things settle down.2 points
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It’s always nice when manufacturers pay direct attention to their customers. Good job Trevor and thanks!2 points
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This looks like a very innovated detector for a pulse unit when you examine the feature set. Pulse delay starts at 7 and runs up to 12. (A pulse delay of 7 is a feat right there) Iron Mask Noise cancel SAT settings Sensitivity (Coil Voltage) All Metal mode Tone ID mode Mute mode (silence a tone ) Looks like something to pursue to me. What would you add for inland use? A progressive mute mode tied to the iron mask setting to give a mineral vs metal break point? Choice of mute mode selection. Tie it to the pulse delay selection. 7 -10 mute high conductors. 11, mute hole (medium conductors) 11 - 12 mute low conductors. Any ideas???? HH Mike2 points
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Funny, the same thing is happening at the New England beaches too. Weird2 points
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As per above, there’s no gold in California, there’s also no gold jewelry at the beach. So please just stay home.???2 points
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Adrian Harris Published on Feb 17, 2019 - On our 4th dig at K C Rallys up comes a William 3rd silver hoard 51 in total well done Garry next step reporting the find to the Worcester FLO.2 points
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Trevor, It was very kind of you to take the time away from CoilTek and clear up some of the questions from everyone on this fine forum. There are so many people who have purchased SDC-2300's from me and other dealers. The #1 complaint was the lack of coil options, but the amount of gold we find made up for it, which was a win win. Now we get the opportunity to have more gold finding coils to make the SDC and our experience even better. I look forward to seeing keeping my customers happy and also look forward to even more CoilTek options down the road.2 points
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I believe you there is no gold in California, history proves it "they" came from California downunder to OZ looking for gold, from there "they" went to New Guinea, Africa etc. Now "they" are swinging around with these new fangled coils on a stick, looking in these same places again, obviously after centuries of looking for it there is no gold. Now Julie your probably not going to learn from the lesson that "they" have made so I wish you the best, but you`ve been warned there really is no gold.2 points
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I bought one of these for my wife, it's lightweight, runs forever without swapping batteries, great coil selection, easy to use, adjustable iron audio, runs great with the 11" Bi-axial DD coil, a really underrated detector IMHO.2 points
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I recently got carried away and added some off topic info and photos to a post when I asked about Where are all the Beach Finds. TMox & GB_Amateur shared info that was good. Sorry for adding some off topic stuff, so I edited and am starting a new post. Is the true value of a find, what someone is willing to pay or is it what you feel it is worth? I think it is a little of both and here is my spin. I was chasing big gold nuggets at a well known Big Gold Mining camp in AK 10+ years ago. In fact, it was Steve who talked me into going there as he knew I was pretty good with a detector. Back in the day when he and I were both Minelab Dealers (when he worked for a living), we used to bump stories and detector knowledge off each other. Anyway, I found a beauty of a coin in the old original part of the camp which is upstream from the current camp. It was an 1882 Morgan Silver Dollar. I was so excited to recover this piece of history and it was only my 3rd or 4th silver dollar find in my carrier, at that time. Well when I got back camp and showed the other nugget hunters and the families who owned the mine, I could tell they really wanted it, especially Mrs. Wiltz. She even offered to buy it from me for $100. Now this is when the value comes in. At the time and current, the 1882 Morgan Dollar in that condition would probably sell for $20 to $30. But yet I have one of the Mine owners offering me 3 to 5X is book value? My heart wanted to keep her happy, but I could not let it go so easy. Finding a Morgan silver dollar is extremely rare (even though there are millions, YES- millions) with a metal detector at an old site. $100 is a great offer and I would never get that same from a coin store. But when you don't need the money, it doesn't mean as much. I declined, as I told her I wanted to take it home and share with my dad, the same guy who helped me learn detectors as a young kid back in the early 70's, my mentor. I also wanted to enter it into the Metal Detecting Club - Finds of the Month Contest. Fast forward to the following Summer of 2006. I took it back up there and to this day (I think anyway) it is still hanging on the wall up for everyone to see. The memories, shakes, natural high I was going though when dug was priceless. Letting my father flip that coin a few times (amongst the much more valuable gold nuggets) while I told the story and watching him light up as he was so proud of me, was worth it. Getting to tell the story over again at the metal detecting meeting and of course winning the "Best Coin of the Month" category, was worth it. Seeing the smile on Mrs Wiltz face when I handed the plaque to her, was worth it. Heck, I spent close to $300 for the custom matting and framing....and it was worth every penny of it. A $20 coin worth Memories of a lifetime is the true value in my mind. 1st 3 pics are of the Frame, the silver dollar, with certificate and photos of find. Last 2 shots are actual pics of the moment I dug it up. I'll never forget that day. What's your thoughts of true value?1 point
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I am very impressed with the High trash setting, and am trying to figure out how it is weighted you would think it had low sensitivity and high discrimination therefore would lead to less dept and more iron masking in thick iron areas at homesites but it actually performs to the contrary of my expectations. it goes very deep up to 12 inches and the discrimation level dose not interfere with separating iron from small non ferrous items I was using my equinox in all metal mode and my friend had his MX Sport high trash mode, we where at a colonial homesite, he has getting mixed signal of iron and a high tone and number he dug 5 big hand made square nails up to 6", and was still getting the good signal , when i cam over with the equinox in multi frequency all I was getting was iron, minus signals, with a flash of 11 but no enough to want to dig, and I predicted it was probably a false from a bent nail he kept going and eventually t 10" deep amongst more nails he pulled a penny My equinox never sensed this coin, yet high trash on single frequency spotted it at the onset and stuck to it like glue until it was finally retrieved. I would love to know the set up and weighting behind this mode some i could apply some to my equinox.1 point
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I recall a big nugget found in California a few years back. It was called the 'Washington' Nugget, and sold for $460,000.1 point
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Dear Julie, I feel exactly the same way. As I live in Germany I don't have many opportunities to detect for nuggets. Last year in March my friend Joe and I detected several LDMA claims at Stanton,AZ. What a breathtaking area. I found lead to cast new bullets, Casings to load them up, sheet metal to put a roof on my house and wire to have it fenced in.... but no gold. Even found a burro shoe way over 100 years old. That was using my SDC2300. Both of us were using the SDC2300 and did not find gold. If you don't swing your coil over gold you're not gonna find any. Just put your time in (I will do too as I'm going back to CA in Sep2019) and the busy will be rewarded one day.....hopefully :-) Try to check spots which are not comfortable at all. Thorns, thick bushes, hard to get to places, cracks in bedrock. For a little over 2 months now I am using a Nox800. I am having big fun with it and found my hunting buddies wedding band which got lost over 1 year ago. So I found gold just not a nugget. It came in at 14 being 4.5 grams in weight. Good luck to you maybe we meet out there in CA one day.1 point
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No NZ is not included because my Brother JW is proving over & over NZ has definitely got gold. I`m a wee upset you think I`d forget NZ and our extended family.? Seriously I think it will not be long and Julie will be showing us some Californian gold, and we can then celebrate with her.1 point
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I only seem to find the easy stuff. I think others find gold I miss. ? It's still out there!1 point
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Doubt anyone did try this Dennis. They were really tongue in cheek responses to a tgread that was last alive 10 months ago. Anyhoo, welcome to the forum!1 point
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Kevin is a great guy. He KNOWS a lot. I have a Kevin story I tell often. If you've heard it stop reading! haha I went to a Minelab Metal Detecting Day in California with my 2 year old 5000. We were not allowed to use it in the coin hunt (PI) so a few of us had a private session with Kevin under a tent at the event. He was talking about any detector that anyone wanted to talk about including the 3030 that was just coming out. I asked him question after question about the settings on the 5000. He kept answering them and I would look at the manual and say 'Well, the book says such and such ...' He would try to explain what the manual was saying to me and a few other people and we would move on to another topic. After about the 4th or 5th topic he said "Let me see that manual." I handed it to him and he took it and threw it across the tent. (Wow, don't tear my pages I'm thinking.) To paraphrase Kevin after that goes something like this: I KNOW MORE THAN THE BOOK, I WROTE IT! He does know what he's talking about. Mitchel1 point
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I went out this afternoon on the beach in 20 mph winds and about 58 degrees so it was going to feel nippy. This trip I put on the right jacket. It is one that I found in the surf a few years ago. It is a Port Authority jacket made in Vietnam. It's kinda like a ski jacket but wow, I was not bothered at all. Normally I have about 3-4 layers and can still feel the wind blowing through! On to the hunt, I found the chain as a result of seeing another detectorist closing in in front of me and I wanted to go back the way I came. I had just dug a coin and about 5 feet away I got a 2 on my 800 in beach 1 at 23 sensitivity. I swung on it a couple of times because this is normally junk on my beaches but I was in the right area to dig most everything so I did. I saw the glitter in the scoop and of course I had to hide it from my fellow detectorist so he wouldn't come over and share my potential patch. haha Later I put it down on the sand and I got a reading of 6. Funny thing is that it didn't chirp like some targets. It was just a solid signal. (It is a combination of .575 and .375 gold and weighs 4.8 grams.) About an hour later on my way back not more than a couple hundred feet from the chain I got a 21. It was solid and full sounding. It wasn't quite like the pennies which chatter sometimes and go from 15 to 22. I somewhat expected a penny but it is .925 silver. It is missing the stone that was mounted on the top but silver is silver! (It weighs 2.7 grams.) I would have liked more for 3 hours of detecting but there were no swells to move more sand. Mitchel1 point
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If you're locating and recovering little targets like that, you'll find the gold when you eventually get your coil over it. Keep tuning your ears to your detector's unique set of sounds, and one day you'll get your coil over a chunk of gold big enough to punch up the numbers on your display as well. Keep putting in the time, and keep honing your skills and the gold will come. All the best, Lanny1 point
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Yes with the new Coiltek coils looking like they have a normal hinge/mount point, I`ll have a shot at just a standard stem. But saying that whilst the square stem looks heavy it isn`t. Most of the weight is in the convenient fold up case which is the go for a lot of users, just not my thing, plus the C cell battery holders are weighty. Swing it all day without bungee etc easy as now.1 point
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Wes, I’m right there with you! That little Blue Coil, is awesome...and we’ve dug up some crazy deep nuggets. Now if Coiltek, would come out with and ergo friendly detector fram and box to swap out the computer board and stuff it in theirs, I’d be all over it! Rick1 point
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GB_Amatuer, I dig it all. Eroded zinc pennies go in the garbage with the pull tabs, foil and can slaw. I'm always happy to dig nickels.....you never know, it could be a gold ring. The merc had no mint mark. HH, Rob1 point
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I've now used the 24K in the field for only 3.5 hours and although the gold is flowing, its all small bits on ground I've already flogged hard. But still fun finding a little bit every few minutes ? The iron discrim I haven't had an instance where I needed to change off factory settings yet. But that time will no doubt come one day. One thing I WILL say....that 6.5" concentric coil continues to surprise me with its ability to handle mineralized ground and its sensitivity. The threshold stays solid and hot rocks are easily cancelled out. 18 bits of gold and counting......1 point
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Update on the pouch issue. I spoke with Jack at White's and as usual, their customer service is exceptional He is sending me another pouch no charge and says they are aware of the issue but no decision has been made with regard to an upgrade or fix. He did say that some users have had success putting a small towel or cloth a the bottom of the pouch since the area that tears is where the mesh is sewn into the pouch. He said that this fix gives the pouch some support and keeps the latch on the control box from putting too much stress on the pouch. I am going to try that this weekend if I get out. Bill1 point
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Hey Gerry, I've had the same problem with mine. Design is good but the fabric is just way too cheap. The box is just too heavy for the pouch. I'm on my second one and it is ripping in the same places. I gave my first one to a buddy of mine who sews and is going to try some fuseable thread to see if that works. But White's really should design a better pouch and then give it to owners at no charge given the price of the machine and the fact that they really push the hip mounting feature of the detector.1 point
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I agree Cal. Mine would recovery super fast almost Equinox fast. I hope the wife enjoys her new detector. Good luck!1 point
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Hello Gerry… I completely agree with you, and especially so to the idea that very frequently how we assign a value to a recovered item is based on many possible facets that may totally exclude any monetary value consideration. You were motivated by a wish to share both your coin and the experience involved with finding it with your Dad, and to subsequently enter your club’s monthly finds contest. I might add that there had to be a very real sense of accomplishment, and that to me is one of the essentials that keep many of us interested in the hobby. That aside, it was an extraordinary find, involved a wonderful story, and you deserve all the credit in the world. The most important consideration for many of us has to be what you feel a recovered item is worth to you. As you’ve stated above, when you don’t need the money, it doesn’t mean as much or anything to you. It may therefore be very difficult to assign a monetary value because an item may appeal to us for many other reasons as noted above. We may feel that the probability of finding another such item of similar age or condition is highly unlikely. Older coins, particularly silver coins may appeal to us aesthetically and / or for reasons of historical interest. Other more practical considerations that might factor into the equation may include the time invested, personal expense, travel involved, effort with searching multiple sites, motivating oneself to do the research and get into the field, and the fieldcraft (and luck) that ultimately made that specific recovery possible. And there are doubtless many other reasons why different people place a high “value” on their various finds regardless of monetary considerations. Attached is a multi-photo of more modern coins and tokens to point out that none of these examples are worth more than a few dollars apiece, but yet these are some of my favorite finds. I couldn’t possibly part with them and it obviously has nothing to do with monetary value. They represent successes that resulted directly from my research efforts and fieldcraft. There is a feeling of accomplishment, and that is the primary “value” that matters most to me.................Jim.1 point
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I totally agree Gerry! It's all about the memory of finding something that's just hard to find? I have a few of my personal favorites that are worth a bunch TO ME over my 27 years tecting but it's the least "valuable" one I probably treasure the most as I NEVER thought I'd dig one EVER out west and in a very young and small town? I dug an 1842 Large Cent in good shape. Other notable favorites are Morgan Dollars (1879s,1921), Seated Half (1853), and a 1937d "3-legged" buffy. Got seated's, V's, buffs, barbers, IH's, mercs, rosies, and coffee cans full of wheats & coppers, etc. I may part with the common silvers and pennies but doubt I could ever part with the Morgans, seated half or the LC.... Those coins bring back the memories any time I look at them and that (imo) can't be bought with $....???? Good post....thanks!!!!1 point
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I had one of the first released Eurotek Pro's. Mine was an exceptional detector for the price. Wish I'd kept it, but a guy kept on and on until I sold it to him.1 point
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While we're wishing upon a star, I'll add mine -- make a neutral buyont closed coil. That solves both desert cobble and water searching with one accessory. The 5 inch stock coil on the Fisher Gold Bug is brilliantly designed to be just that. Of course as you increase the size, the weight must go up. But I wonder if a 5x9 in^2 or 5x10 in^2 closed eliptical could be made neutral buoyant and still reasonable in weight.1 point