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So got back out to my one nugget producing spot here in VA, this past Saturday. Four of us in total went I was swinging the GPX4800 with the 15x12 commander mono coil, my buddy was swinging my equinox 800 with stock coil, and my two other friends (the ones who originially found this place), were swing the GPX5000 with a 11 commander DD coil. In total i got 4 nice nuggets for the day, the GPX5000 got 2 and the equinox 800 unfortunately got skunked. Biggest nugget was 2.3 grams, smallest was 6 grains. I also got a steel ball that came from a civil war case shot shell. All three detectors ready to go for the next days planned adventure. Fording the high creek water to get to the detecting area. Collapse mine shaft. Case Shot Case shot second pic Dirt gold right out of the ground All cleaned up and purty On the detectors coil All the trash dug in the search for gold. 100+ pieces. I got some good video footage so i should have a video up in the next few days.

With the kids away at school once again, I had the itch to go out. I went to the ball diamond where I have found a silver ring and a class ring. My Garrett carrot was sounding off when I turned it in, so I decided to go back home and get my backup. (Turns out the battery was toast even though I just changed it the last time I was out.) I had sensitivity turned down to about 15 and was running in Park 1 using 50 tones. Recovery speed was at 7 and the horseshoe was engaged. After 5 digs, I got a very consistent 15. It sounded different from the countless other 15's I have dug that were pulltabs. Perhaps fuller in sound would be a way to explain it. Anyway, about 2 inches down was my ticket for the excuse train to be done sweating for the night. I left 10 minutes after starting knowing that this was going to be hard to top before dark. The side stones are diamonds according to my tester. The middle stones have a more purple hue to them when light is passed through. Any ideas on the stones would be appreciated. It looks like it would be very heavy ring, but the portion that holds the stones is hollowed out quite well. I invited my brother-in-law, but he was busy. I made sure to send a few picks so he will want to go out next time.

Dragged a buddy mine to an area where I found a 2 cent. Had my Tejon with larger coil this time around and got a small but nice hit near a pine tree, told him to dig it might be good. I looked back after a few minutes and saw a huge mound of dirt so i went back and relocated it. Turned out to be a 4 leaf clover charm gold plated over zinc so I said want it? Might bring you some luck... he said no all pissed off. Continuing on i found 5 Indian heads with dates from late 1800's to 1908, pocket knife and a barber dime to top it off. The Charm is now hot glued to the Tejon 🙂 What was odd is the Indian heads showed up as a 60 on his Garrett. Really strange as they usually show up 74-76 on those machines. Even on my Tejon they were pretty much on the pull ring if not on the fringe. Usually skip those signals but for some reason they just sounded a bit better than a pull ring. Too bad the pine trees beat them up. Think a bit more baking soda and toothbrush will clean them up a bit more.

All of us travel to and fro to find gold. Sometimes we find it and sometimes we don't. If we are 'lucky' and look around us on the way to the goldfields we are surrounded by beautiful nature and geology. One of my most surprising trips was taking Hwy 93 north out of Las Vegas, Nevada towards Ely, Nevada. I was headed to the total eclipse in Wyoming. There was quite a lot of water and wetlands around the Pahranagat National Wildlife Refuge which was a great surprise. I'm wondering what are the great drives that other prospectors feel are their favorites. This could become a long thread or possibly a separate forum because it could include the drive, campsites, side trips and the like. I'm always reminded of JW's posting of his gold sites in New Zealand (makes me want to go) which are so scenic and I saw many vistas in Australia that still pop into my mind. We all have 'hidden' off road trips and areas all over the world. Let's see how the editor lets this one go. Mitchel

From back in May when i first found my little nugget patch. Some of the smaller pieces of gold in this spot would ring up to the iron side, but since almost every target in this spot is gold, it shows you that on small gold the probability indicator should be ignored. Some nice gold for only an hour or so spent detecting. Will have more videos to come, im slowly working through my backlog. Thanks for watching!

Great ring and reward for digging all of those 11 to 17 pull tab variants that are so easy to pass over after digging hundreds. Even though some people say the Equinox tones are not "nuanced" enough, those of us that have hundreds or more hours on the Nox know differently. Square cut ameythst is a possibility, so is garnet AND ruby. Rubies and garnets can have deep purple tints too. Jeff

Hi, I thought I would give an update to the above post. I have never tried the MX Sport. I just have no use for a 4.25lbs VLF detector. I recently came across an MX7 for less than $350 which included the stock 9.5" concentric coil and the 7" Detech DD coil. I didn't have access to either of the Detech coils when I first tried the MX7. The above post was me commenting on the MX7 with the 9.5" concentric and the 10" DD coil which comes stock on the MX Sport. To say the least, I was not very impressed with either stock coil in moderate to heavy mineralization. The MX7 I have now with the 7" Detech DD coil is much better at target ID down to 6", has much better target separation and recovery speed. I have been able to take this MX7 to sites that I previously hunted with my former MX7 and find 4" to 6" quality targets that I never knew were there using either stock coil. The difference in size is not the cause of this situation. This is not a really trashy area and I know those targets are not recent drops by their age and condition. So, I plan to purchase the larger Detech DD coil when I can find a good deal on one, keep the 950 concentric for saltwater beaches and continue to enjoy how light weight and well balanced the MX7 is with the 7" Detech coil (3 lbs. 3 oz.!) Even though the MX7 is not wireless ( I happened to have two Deteknix/Quest wireless headphones sets that work great) or multi frequency, I always liked the MX7's form factor, 14kHz frequency, great features, IP 54 weatherproof rating and excellent functionality. Compared to lots of other very famous detectors I have tried out and owned in the last 5 years, the MX7 is as good or better than any of them with similar features. Whites deserves some serious love for this excellent detector (but not for the stock coils!!!!!!) Unlike earlier testing, the Detech 7" DD coil and the MX7 in prospecting mode does a very respectable job of detecting .2 gram and larger gold nuggets too. I will probably take it down south to my family home in Georgia, leave it there and use it when I am visiting my 90 year old parents and the rest of my relatives so I won't have to fly with a detector. We have several hundred un-deteted acres that would really be fun to use the MX7 on........ Jeff .

Thanks for the kind words but I really don't want them to be about me but rather what an awesome hobby we have in detecting. I can think of no other hobby where you can find money, history, jewelry, gold AND make others happy in the process. GB is right in that the folks here are the best and thanks to Steve and his ability to shut some things down it has and continues to be the best place to share and talk detecting. To be alive is to be making a difference and man I felt alive yesterday!

I kind of hesitate to bring some of my ring finds for customers because I know some folks think that it's not hard to find a ring when someone tells you where they lost it and ringfinders like me are glorified hustlers. I wanted to share this one because it was truly a quest and the ending was worth every step and every swing of the detector in the 95 degree heat and dust. I got a call from Michael last night saying he had been helping coach his young daughters cross country team at Rancho Santa Susana park in Simi Valley. He went home without his platinum wedding ring. As fate would have it they had run all over the park (It's huge!) and even up on the hills across the street. He thought he could have lost it in the bark area, a couple grass areas, along a 2 mile path and finally the hills across the street. We started with the bark area which was about 300 yards long by 25 yards or so at it's widest. He said he had sprinted in this area with the kids and the ring may have flown off there. Unfortunately for me it didn't as I canvassed the whole area in about an hour and a half just swinging my nox while kids played soccer next to me. I was looking for that 12-13 double beep as it was going to be on the surface. I turned my sensitivity all the way down so I would only get surface signals which helped speed things up. I was also the idiot who forgot to bring water so I was starting to sweat through my clothes hoping I could hijack and unsuspecting soccer players water while they weren't looking. We finished the bark area and detected a path on the way to the grassy area #1. I gridded it, found 2 nickels that had promise given the signal I was hunting for was 12-13 nickel as that's where all my men's platinum rings have come in at. We declared grassy area #1 done and went to grassy area #2. About a half hour in I began to sense he was giving up and truthfully I was beginning to think this wasn't going to end well. I was starting to to tell him the other things he could do to find his ring(police, craigslist, pawn shop) and I had literally covered all but a 10x10 area of the grass and something told me to search it even though it really wasn't an area he thought he'd lost it at. Again I want to emphasize I felt like I was being led/pushed to go search it. I got over to it, started gridding and I got a nice double beep with a 12-13 VDI. I had my shades on so I couldn't really see the grass and I was just pulling out my Deus propointer to verify the signal when Michael reached down and started screaming "you found my ring, you found my ring!" Before I could even speak he put me into bear hug and he started shaking and crying with joy that he had his ring back. He had a hold of me for at least a minute and then we prayed, gave God thanks for the recovery and he got it back together and called his wife. If you've never found something another person has lost you're really missing out on one of the greatest experiences of your life. To me metal detecting isn't my hobby, it's my ministry. Most of my customers are women and they have a tendency to be very emotional so you can imagine I was taken aback by how important this ring was to him as he said over and over that it represented his love for his wife. Finding this ring today was a needle in the haystack recovery that God led me to. I'm not trying to get all spiritual but it's just who I am and how I roll. I hope all of you have at least half as good a weekend as I am.

Weird, mine has never done that. If anything I wish I could set the pinpoint volume lower. I'm pinpointing, I already know the target is there. No reason at all to blast my ears with a full volume scream.

Did a bit more scrubbing and the top 2 pennies are flying eagles, one unreadable other 1858. Thought they were IH's too because the back is similar. Dig those ring tabs!

Nice one!!! May be amethyst

Phrunt, Be here around 9:30 and you can join me, it only takes a few hours for you to get here. If I wasn't so tired right now I would be looking, but I mowed for 5 1/2 hours before I went there today. I also helped a friend take down a large oak tree for firewood and that by itself was hard enough. When I was in my 20's I could go for days before getting any sleep, but I am over 60 now and it seems that hard work just kills me anymore. Valen

This is what I have found in just 3 hours today after I mowed the yard. I just got back and ran some water over this batch of finds and patted them dry. I found so many rusted nuts and bolts I lost count. Those rang up as a solid 12 so I dug them thinking of a nickel. The chain that I found is Silver and has Mother of Pearl in a tear drop shape and that was the first thing that I hit. Who would have thought that it was sitting right on top of the soil and not in bad shape. I did place it in my ultrasonic jewelry cleaner and I think it came out fairly nice. The coins were found within 2 to 4 inches deep since the grass was removed. I have not yet searched more than a third of the area yet due to all the hits I had, so tomorrow I will be back there again. Valen

So many touching stories and memories of your 4 legged companions and even a few 2 fisted roos.. It just goes to show how attached we are to our loved ones and sometimes more than we realize. My 4 legged partner is Hero. He gets excited every time I put on my detecting cloths as he knows I'm about to head out into the field. Most times he stays home to guard the place. I do take him to Eastern Oregon so he can see his girlfriend (part wolf) on occasion. he is a medium long coat full bred German Shepherd, so he does not care for hot days much. Likes to stay in or around water. Thanks for sharing everyone and I really enjoyed this post Steve.

I like it. I know I for one find far more scenery than I do gold!

You're right, Xterra on the brain I guess, sorry about that. Hoping ML comes out down the road with a Multi IQ based detector with the Target ID resolution and sophisticated Disc patterning of the Etrac and CTX FBS 2 detectors. Now that would be something I could get behind feature wise. Otherwise, I am really wanting for nothing as far as detectors are concerned, which is probably a relief to my better half. Fortunately, I can likely skip contemplating anything new detector wise in 2019 and 2020 (with the possible exception of the FT AQ PI if it ever shows up and unless Nokta/Makro or XP decide to release simultabeous multifrequency based detectors) as I have no interest in detectors that have less capability than what I have now and that appears to be Simplex and Vanquish. Can't imagine anyone releasing a detector without a hard wired headphone port at this point especially for water hunting and considering the price point that ML has been charging for their wireless accessories, it seems it would push their detector price target too high. But anything is on the table until proven otherwise. A Standard 1/4" phone jack would be good. Let's get it right this time - Enjoy that eTrac Nuke! Happy Hunting.

Thanks for the comments guys! Ill be at this spot detecting and dredging over labor day weekend. Hopefully some more nice nuggets show up.

I dont think it has to worry about the Simplex. The Simplex is single freq and wont work well in the salt unlike the Vanquish that might well do. As for the idea of the machine being the replacement for the Excal/Sovereign , that was mine. Not from a source. As for the I.Q. its not that thats doing it , its the WM08 /Bluetooth , that i am sure . Its always dropping out on the top dry areas close to the pubs and clubs . Anyway the ET handles those areas .

Not conclusive, but that is the inconsistent with what has been implied by the adverts and really isn't where the industry is heading where everything is waterproof. As Steve referenced on the Vanquish page: From the Minelab YouTube Channel: ”Minelab Vanquish a new dawn a new metal detector For Metal Detecting, water hunting, relic hunting and treasure hunting” Agree that water hunting does not necessary mean waterproof, but if ML wants to be competitive with Simplex too...

Could you just use lighter steel for the scoop blade welded onto the leaf spring, leaf spring provides the support. You aren't really bashing anything with that end. (Disclaimer: I know nothing about prospecting picks)

6-1 is great ratio! I can't ever recall digging a 15 that was other than a tab or bottle cap. Very nice!

Nice!! Bet that made you smile!😁

I usually run with Iron Audio off and discriminate it out and take the first notch out on the left other wise there is just too many beeps to keep track of. I try to run it as silent as possible and the 2 tones is enough info for my brain to keep up. I wish they did have audio adjust on the machine then I could use my sea hunter headphones on my pro when hitting local puddles and not worry about killing the headset. Audio on Garretts has always been brash. Still if I took any one of my detectors camping and hiking it would be the pro since it's plenty rugged.

GB, I actually have that DeTex model (see attached photos). Your magazine mentions "Nevada's Largest Gold Nugget", what exactly does it weigh and where was it found? Just love these old Treasure Magazines and their article. Busho, I have one too, but mine works like a dream. I can easily go to the mall parking lot on a Saturday afternoon and turn that baby on, guaranteed it will point to a big metal car every time. You have to believe my friend...just believe.

That may be true of concentric coils, but that's not how a DD coil works (which is what the Equinox uses). On a DD coil, the active detect region is beneath the center spine area where the two "D" coils intersect. Although you may have some edge sensitivity effects that can affect overall sensitivity and coil overload in thick target situations with larger DD coils, the target recovery time is determined by the detector solely, and the center spine strip thickness (the overlap region) and sweep speed determine how long the target remains in the thin overlap region which is basically the same thickness for all three Equinox coils. Although you could have a situation where more than one target ends up under the active region center strip, recovery speed does nothing for you in that situation because both targets are simultaneously under the active region, you are just less likely to have that happen with a smaller dismeter, shorter length coil. Equinox DD coil diameter or length/width for the large Elliptical coil) primarily affects depth and sweep coverage and ability to sweep the coil side-to-side in tight confines and has nothing to do with recovery speed based target separation. See this thread for more information on DD vs. Concentric coils.

Given that FT gave the world a “peek” at the AQ last spring at the outdoor “Messe” in Germany, I tend to doubt that they would want to have it appear at Detectival or any of the other rallies in Europe this September. It isn’t ready for release - we know that because it isn’t released. Showing it anywhere else would likely just stir up questions.

Those folks aren't here. Brings to life the "needle in a haystack" analogy. Well done.

Great to see some gold coming from the other side of the US. Good clear water like that makes the video much more enjoyable. Thanks for sharing and wish you more golden luck in the future.

The 12x15" Semi Ellip MONO by Commander will go deeper on larger gold than the stock 11" round MONO as I have done many side by side testing. Now to be honest, I have not done a side by side with the new flat winding ELITE series against the 12x15 Commander, but I did notice more depth with the ELITE when compared to the standard 11" round MONO. As Lundy mentioned, back in the day, the 12x15" MONO Commander was my favorite coil as with many of my Field Staff Experts and we dug some really deep nuggets at Rye Patch with them. The 11" ELITE is better on the smaller nuggets though and in certain areas they are more prevalent.

Quite a bit was made of ferrous falsing with the 6" coil a year ago after the upgrade, but nothing much seemed to come of it. I did some limited testing with two Equinox 800 both set up with 6" coils on tiny gold nuggets in bad soil. Short story is I could discern no real difference. There appears to be little downside to going to 1.7.5 from my use so far and with 1.5.0 having the known issue with silver on edge I am going all in with 1.7.5 and not looking back. Thanks for the feedback folks. Equinox - How To Check Version Or Rollback To Older Version Thread asking same question a year ago

It turns out that there is a White's service technician that lives 20 minutes from my house. I've made an appointment with him on Friday. He's going to check the unit out and give me a few lessons and tips on how to use. How cool is that?

Some additional photos of the gold, including close ups of the largest one which I believe shows some remnants of crystal character. Quite rare in Nz

Kinda a slow roll...but ill take it!

My girl Lucy, she hits local fields with me.

My boy "Major". Sadly lost him to Lymphoma cancer 3 months ago. This picture is a day before we had to say goodbye. Been very lonely and miserable since hes been gone. Decided we really need a dog in our home so have another one coming on the 12th of August. Not sure what to call him but have been thinking " Miner/Minor" Which sort of resonates with the name 'Major' and my hobby

This is the most spoiled detecting dog there is..My son named him Buddy...We got him at around his 12th week...I was told he was born in the slums of Stockton Ca...When I first saw him he was in a pen with 5 other pound pups. The other pups were all Pitt bull/Lab cross's and Buddy was about less then half their size...He was getting into fights with them and holding his own... I said I'll take him ...Problem is he still thinks he is bigger then he is and therefore daddy has to bail his butt out from a fight once in a while otherwise he would have been dead by now. I knew it would happen some day and it finally did a couple months ago. He got tagged by a rattle snake right on the kisser... messed him up for a couple days..but thats about it...The money I invested in rattle snake vaccine was well spent...the money I invested in rattle snake training when he was a pup was well wasted..I think he knows what they are now but I'll not be taking him in the low foot hills during snake season any more...Did I tell you that one day a golden eagle was making a bee line for him while out detecting? wings cupped full speed from a half mile away...I was able to wave it off before it got too close. Merton was with us that day...Buddy goes to work with me every day and is sort of my Siamese twin...he's always getting into trouble but I wouldn't have it any other way. strick

This is about the finest detecting dog around. Rooster is his name. He is my eyes and ears when my head is down concentrating on signals. He never strays far at all. He works for jerky, ham sammichs, and water. And even the grumpiest prospector I know, the infamous Klunker, even let's him ride in the front seat. ??⛏️

Miss Elvis as a pup...with playmate?

It's tough Norm when they get on. I swore off any new dogs when we had four (three English Bulldogs and a Golden) go over the course of two years, and it just seemed like two years of heartbreak. My English Bulldog Teddy in particular was real hard on me. But my wife and I would come home and it was just way too quiet... no little happy herd at the door. And so back into the land of furry people we went. And never a regret as all the rest have been some of the best. This was probably my best behaved prospecting buddy. Actually my fathers pup back in 1979 but I would "borrow" him for prospecting trips. He was a purebred Golden Retriever registered as Autumn Blaze but we just called him Blaze. A perfect trail dog in bear country. He always went ahead on the trail, but never out of sight. He would stop at turns and such and wait. Just a great guy and like most Golden's a friend to everyone. I liked this photo I took on the trail into my old claims at Stetson Creek, Alaska. Autumn Blaze in the middle of autumn colors.

My assistant Jaffa ? He doesn’t wander away at all, always by my side trying to get me to throw a stick. He drops it on my coil while detecting to force me to stop and throw it .

I don’t normally revive old threads but I thought I’d chime in with my recently purchased MX7. Pros: Consistent Target ID, especially with the 6” concentric coil. Lovely crisp audio that White’s does so well. For me, really well balanced. Great menu layout and sharp display. Solid build with no creaks or wobbles. Strong performance in different ground types. Cons: Nothing so far. The MX7 is a killer unit on our Australian $1 and $2 coins with a TID of 69 and 65 respectively. Most screw caps were 70/71 (which are our nemesis down here). Yes I could have purchased the Equinox (which I have tried) but the MX7 just felt like it suited me better. I will report back if I discover anything I don’t like. How does White’s make detectors sound so good! For me, this is one of the most important aspects to any detector purchase. Tony

Kind of sweet seeing dealers defending people who are theoretically competition.

It’s a knee jerk reaction to the way these guys get treated elsewhere John. They don’t know you quite as well as the rest of us It does show how words said in jest can go sideways on the internet. The sad thing to me is some dealers are the most knowledgeable resources we have. Yet they tend to get driven off forums. Some deserve it for being too aggressive, but often it is other dealer dirty tricks at work. Don’t think it does not happen. Anyway, all knowledge is welcome here as are all dealers as long as their first goal is to inform. My theory is any dealer working to simply inform deserves some business. I consider myself lucky if I can get people like JP, Doc, Gerry, Rob, Chris etc to stop by and visit us. In that regard this thread is awesome!

I think the videos great and could care less what detector he was swinging or what coil was attached. I’m also pleased to see Chris is still making the effort to do these sorts of things, I ran out of steam ages ago thanks to continuous negative comments. It takes huge effort to rig up cameras and get video. When your a shop owner the opportunity to get out prospecting is VERY limited, for Chris to take time out of his precious detecting time to generate content to share with others shows a lot of dedication and good luck to him if it generates some interest in his business. There aren’t that many dealers out there who walk the walk, so kudos to him. JP

Great video Chris. Thank you for sharing. Also that is a really good looking pick. I wonder who makes those. ? Doc

I am pretty sure Chris has a Zed he is one of the largest Minelab dealers in Arizona and also the North American distributor for NF Coils I believe. It is debatable if his video is an advert or not, I don't care one way or the other, but what I do know for a fact is that Chris knows how to find gold. Be safe on that bike of yours those trails look pretty skinny.

Maybe he has arthritis or sells all his 7000's or he wanted to play with the 5000...lots of possible reasons...even Adam's. fred

Chuck, Please excuse my delay in responding to your post. This getting old crap is sure making life miserable at times. I've been living with pain and impaired mobility off-and-on since an on-the-job injury in Sept. of '87 when I worked at Compass, but full-time misery since late '90. Then an injury March 2nd of this year left me with a mild tear to my left rotator cuff, and a complex fall on my cement driveway the first of April caused a severe tear to my right rotator cuff and other issues in my shoulder and neck. The resulting issues have really limited my opportunities to get out detecting this past four months, but when I do the bulk of my swing-time is spent with a White's model in-hand. Oh, I still manage to get some time in with my also excellent working Nokta CoRe and Relic devices, but lighter weight and comfortable balance are what I crave the most so far this year. I ended 2017 using a terrific, multi-purpose MX-7 as the only White's in my current Regular-Use Detector Team, but I now enjoy owning and using several models of that brand that have all proven themselves to me in the past. I started out the year by adding a 'Noah hand-me-down' XLT to my 'detector team' and equipped myself with my preferred 6½" Concentric coil for it. In May I made a trade of a brand new extra MX-7 for a choice-condition modified Classic ID with the 5½" Ferret Concentric coil. I swapped a back-up Nokta FORS Relic for an MX Sport in June or July, and then on the 28th of last month I bought an MX-5 'package' that included the 6½" Concentric coil. I live in the high plateau desert region of far Eastern Oregon so I'm not close to any sandy coastal beaches, and my hampered mobility and use of a cane full-time make it difficult to beach hunt in soft, loose sand the past quarter century. Besides, I can't swim and never did more than wade out only to very shallow depths when I did. I like the MX Sport, but I plan to sell it with a brand new set of waterproof headphones and an extra search coil simply because I don't need it because my MX-7 uses the same circuitry and serves all my needs. The MX-7 and modified Classic ID with the smaller coil are my two most comfortable TID equipped detectors to handle, and all of my 'team' spend the bulk of their time Relic Hunting and perhaps 10% to 20% of the time are used for typical Coin Hunting applications. There's no such thing as a 'perfect' detector which is why I also have current models from Fisher, Makro, Nokta and Tesoro, along with some older favorites I occasionally use but mainly have for seminars and training sessions. Those include Compass TR's, a Garrett Hunter BFO and TR-Disc. units, and an early Teknetics Mark I Ltd. Naturally, every detector that makes the cut to be on my Regular-Use Team has to have functional features and in-the-field performance, but I can't ignore the 'fun factor', either. 'All' models that stay in my arsenal are 'fun' to use, and I do get a lot of 'fun' and enjoyment out of using my MX-7. Like you, I am not certain why so many have been caught up in the XP and Minelab offerings this past three or four years, and it seems like many USA based manufacturers have been ignored over that period of time. I know that I hear from some people who think the MX Sport / MX-7 are repackaged clones from the MXT / MXT Pro, but they are based on new circuitry and do have different features and some differences in performance as well. Perhaps some of the terrible promotional videos at release time for the MX Sport didn't help, nor the fact that it was rushed-to-market before pre-production field use and evaluation which left early releases with a lot of glitches. Well, they got those worked out and went on to make a great land-use version of the Sport with the MX-7. I do wish more White's consumers would step up and contribute their views as there have to be more than the two of us using these really versatile models. Monte