Steve Herschbach

Well John, first off I said passed 10K a long time ago. In suspect you are pretty far in the hole with your detector purchases versus whatever gold nuggets you have ever found. In fact, I bet I have found more gold nuggets metal detecting in the last two weeks than you have in your life. So pardon me if your opinion is not holding much weight with me as of late.

White's is the only manufacturer I am aware of that makes the LCD window covers easy to replace and easy to get. Just peel the old one off and stick a new one on! Available at some dealers or online at https://www.whiteselectronics.com/?s=Window+decal&site_section=site-search&lang=us

It is not so much a matter of really liking it I suppose as just not - not liking it! There are things I could improve but I can say that about any detector. Compared to my GPX 5000 I like: that it has an integrated battery that it has a wireless speaker module that it is waterproof that it has integrated GPS that I use every time I use the detector. I get that some people do not use it but trust me, it adds nothing to the weight or the retail cost. the enclosed coil cable easy shaft length adjustment that one coil does almost all I need that it can be upgraded with software downloads as far as I am concerned, very simple operation I was not by any means wowed when I first laid hands on the GPZ and was in fact pretty underwhelmed. It has however grown on me over time. My main real gripe from an operational perspective is simply that it is heavier than I like. But it is well balanced and 85% of the time my coil rides on the ground, somewhat supporting the weight. I really am loath to say much about the GPZ these days as I hate coming off as if I am defending it somehow. These are just my honest opinions about something that is working for me. I really like firing it up and running it all day long. It works, it finds me gold, and it will only get better. I'm happy.

Narrawa has done the first field report I have seen on the FORS Gold+ at https://www.prospectingaustralia.com.au/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=204116#p204116

I guess different strokes for different folks. I have well over 500 hours on my GPZ and passed the 10K mark in gold found with it long ago. I just don't have all the problems all you guys seem to have with it but again, that's just me.

You guys are a tough audience for sure. Think about all the money and development effort it takes to create a totally custom detector platform like the CTX/GPZ package. As opposed to just another box/rod/coil or pod on a stick. This..... Versus something like this.... And with cutting edge performance to boot.

Coil control, coil control, coil control!! I ran a pay to mine operation for years and have been able to watch a lot of people detect, both novices and experts. You can literally tell an expert just by watching. They are very intent on what they are doing, their head is in the game at all times, and almost all their focus is on that coil and what it is doing. The coil is like a little hovercraft moving over the ground and around or over obstacles, always under total control and always close to the ground. Many novices are obviously bored out of their skulls and paying no attention at all to what they are doing. Their minds are someplace else, and they are just going through the motions. In particular, the coils are off the ground, either for the entire swing, or at both ends of the swing (the infamous "golf swing"). The only time the coil gets close to the ground is in the middle of the swing or sometimes not at all. You can coach them on this, but in many cases an hour later that coil is back off the ground. I decided that many people new to the game have no real interest in metal detecting. They want gold, and think a detector will get it for them, so they give it a go. But they really do not enjoy the detecting itself. It bores them, and digging junk in particular frustrates them. Most of them honestly will just never be much good at it except by luck as they do not really have the mental aptitude for it. Metal detecting for me at its best is just like meditation. I am in the moment, not thinking of bills to pay or other issues in life, just one with the detector and the task at hand. Where is this guys head? Source:Wikipedia Commons

A look at why Minelab is able to make some of the most technologically advanced metal detectors on the market.

Chris Ralph could no doubt answer in more detail but the short answer is something he said to me recently. The most abundant minerals in the earth's crust are the silicates and so quartz minerals in all their forms are virtually everywhere. Chrysoprase and other chalcedony are just massive or cryptocrystalline forms of silica. Not surprising then that where you find gold you tend to find quartz type minerals but unfortunately the reverse is not true. Very similar to the situation with magnetite, the most common black sand mineral. Since it is found almost everywhere you of course find it associated with gold, but there are countless locations with magnetite black sands where there is absolutely no gold.

From https://law.resource.org/pub/us/case/reporter/US/357/357.US.155.29.html "As a part of this conservation program, WPB, on October 8, 1942, issued Limitation Order L—208 now before us. That order was addressed exclusively to the gold mining industry which it classified as nonessential. It directed each operator of a gold mine to take steps immediately to close down its operations and, after seven days, not to acquire, use or consume any material or equipment in development work. The order directed that, within 60 days, all operations should cease, excepting only the minimum activity necessary to maintain mine buildings, machinery and equipment, and to keep the workings safe and accessible. Applications to the WPB were permitted to meet special needs and several exceptions were made under that authority. Small mines were defined and exempted from the order. (emphasis mine - Steve H.) The WPB did not take physical possession of the gold mines. It did not require the mine owners to dispose of any of their machinery or equipment." I am not sure what the exact exemption was as I have not found a text of the order yet.

Hate to rain on this but it is almost certainly not gold. More likely pyrite inclusions. Really great stuff though, thanks for posting.

I am very surprised by that Ray. Do you put a lot of hours on them with the coils underwater?

The Fisher Gold Bug Pro is one of the most popular VLF prospecting detectors in use today. I think it is pretty obvious Nokta is gunning for the Gold Bug Pro directly with the new Nokta FORS Gold+ and so I thought a little comparison is in order. The FORS Gold+ comes with two coils, a 10" x 5.5" DD and a 5" round DD. Few people probably know it but the Gold Bug Pro is available as a dual coil package with the exact same two coils, the Fisher Gold Bug Pro Two Coil Combo. Both detectors run at 19 kHz, both available with same two coil package - a direct head to head battle. The best Internet price for the Fisher Gold Bug Pro Two Coil Combo is $749 and the Internet price for the Nokta FORS Gold+ Two Coil package is $679. I prepared a little comparison chart for you here. One thing lacking is that I think the Nokta comes with coil covers and the Bug does not but I am not sure of that yet so left that off the chart for now. And another item I just thought of but am not going to bother changing in the chart right now is that the Nokta does have a concentric coil option while the Fisher is designed to run DD coils only. Concentric coils offer certain benefits in some detecting scenarios like better ferrous discrimination compared to DD coils. I have used the Gold Bug Pro extensively and although I have not used the FORS Gold+ yet I have compared the Bug to the original FORS Gold at 15 kHz. The two models are literally neck and neck on gold nuggets even comparing 19 khz to 15 khz so I have no doubt that as far as detecting gold goes it is going to be a real toss up between these models. The operator will make the real difference more than the machines themselves. The FORS Gold+ however offers more features at an extremely aggressive price so on paper at least it offers an incredible value. A new feature difference is that the Nokta now has a setting they are calling iSAT which is a version of what White's has always called V/SAT. This was a White's exclusive for a long time but if there ever was a patent it has run out. All detectors these days with a threshold based all metal mode are constantly retuning in an attempt to keep the threshold steady over ground variations. This is why if you stop moving the coil the target fades away. The retune rate is normally factory preset and cannot be changed, but White's has always offered the ability to vary what they call the Self Adjusting Threshold (SAT) rate to suit the operator. Slower settings are more sensitive but require slower coil sweeps while faster settings smooth signals out and allow for faster coil movement. In homogeneous ground slower settings will get you extra sensitivity while in variable ground faster settings help smooth false signals. In my opinion however it will come down to what often separates detectors when I use them myself, the intangibles of how detectors sound and how they feel. The FORS Gold+ is a solid pound heavier than the Gold Bug Pro. Surprisingly however if you get a chance to try them both you do not feel it when using the 10" coils because the Nokta is balanced with the underarm control box while the Fisher tends to be nose heavy with the 10" coil. The real difference in this regard is the Fisher "S" rod grip versus the Nokta pistol grip. I can promise you right now some people like S rods and some hate them, and the same can be said of the Nokta pistol grip. You simply can't know unless you get them on your arm for a couple hours. The Nokta does have the edge in the audio department however with multiple tone settings. That does not mean a person still might not like the sounds the Fisher puts out better but at least with the Nokta you can change it to some degree. Finally, there is the large forward facing display on the Gold Bug Pro versus the dual LCD displays on the FORS Gold+. Everything on the Fisher is in your face all the time. Nokta puts the rarely used adjustments in a side display on the control box while critical items like target ID are displayed on a miniature LCD mounted on the top of the pistol grip. In practice both work fine but the Nokta is a bit more awkward in some regards because of this during those times when you actually do have to make adjustments. Ultimately both styles will have fan clubs and detractors but what I like most is choice. More options for us to choose what we personally prefer and that is a good thing. Long story short I think these are both great detectors and it is pretty hard to go wrong with either of them. Both are intended primarily for nugget detecting but can be used for most general detecting tasks. In fact, machines like these tend to be very popular with the relic hunting crowd who are seeking low conductive targets like buttons and bullets in ferrous trash. Anyway, I hope this helps for those who may be considering either of these detectors to sort it all out. More information on the Fisher Gold Bug Pro can be found at http://www.detectorprospector.com/gold-prospecting-equipment/fisher-gold-bug-pro-nugget-metal-detector.htm and more information on the Nokta FORS Gold+ can be found at http://www.detectorprospector.com/gold-prospecting-equipment/nokta-fors-gold-plus-metal-detector.htm

Funny thing, I used to really pride myself on my resistance to cold. I guess I still have it to a degree but the reality is after dealing with it for my entire life I have just had enough of it. That and I am not the hot blooded youngster I used to be. I could stick my hands in ice water back in the day that would hurt me now. Fingers and toes are not circulating like they used to. Nope, I am a warm weather weenie now and proud of it! The Cremation of Sam McGee By Robert W. Service There are strange things done in the midnight sun By the men who moil for gold; The Arctic trails have their secret tales That would make your blood run cold; The Northern Lights have seen queer sights, But the queerest they ever did see Was that night on the marge of Lake Lebarge I cremated Sam McGee. Now Sam McGee was from Tennessee, where the cotton blooms and blows. Why he left his home in the South to roam 'round the Pole, God only knows. He was always cold, but the land of gold seemed to hold him like a spell; Though he'd often say in his homely way that "he'd sooner live in hell." On a Christmas Day we were mushing our way over the Dawson trail. Talk of your cold! through the parka's fold it stabbed like a driven nail. If our eyes we'd close, then the lashes froze till sometimes we couldn't see; It wasn't much fun, but the only one to whimper was Sam McGee. And that very night, as we lay packed tight in our robes beneath the snow, And the dogs were fed, and the stars o'erhead were dancing heel and toe, He turned to me, and "Cap," says he, "I'll cash in this trip, I guess; And if I do, I'm asking that you won't refuse my last request." Well, he seemed so low that I couldn't say no; then he says with a sort of moan: "It's the cursèd cold, and it's got right hold till I'm chilled clean through to the bone. Yet 'tain't being dead—it's my awful dread of the icy grave that pains; So I want you to swear that, foul or fair, you'll cremate my last remains." A pal's last need is a thing to heed, so I swore I would not fail; And we started on at the streak of dawn; but God! he looked ghastly pale. He crouched on the sleigh, and he raved all day of his home in Tennessee; And before nightfall a corpse was all that was left of Sam McGee. There wasn't a breath in that land of death, and I hurried, horror-driven, With a corpse half hid that I couldn't get rid, because of a promise given; It was lashed to the sleigh, and it seemed to say: "You may tax your brawn and brains, But you promised true, and it's up to you to cremate those last remains." Now a promise made is a debt unpaid, and the trail has its own stern code. In the days to come, though my lips were dumb, in my heart how I cursed that load. In the long, long night, by the lone firelight, while the huskies, round in a ring, Howled out their woes to the homeless snows— O God! how I loathed the thing. And every day that quiet clay seemed to heavy and heavier grow; And on I went, though the dogs were spent and the grub was getting low; The trail was bad, and I felt half mad, but I swore I would not give in; And I'd often sing to the hateful thing, and it hearkened with a grin. Till I came to the marge of Lake Lebarge, and a derelict there lay; It was jammed in the ice, but I saw in a trice it was called the "Alice May." And I looked at it, and I thought a bit, and I looked at my frozen chum; Then "Here," said I, with a sudden cry, "is my cre-ma-tor-eum." Some planks I tore from the cabin floor, and I lit the boiler fire; Some coal I found that was lying around, and I heaped the fuel higher; The flames just soared, and the furnace roared—such a blaze you seldom see; And I burrowed a hole in the glowing coal, and I stuffed in Sam McGee. Then I made a hike, for I didn't like to hear him sizzle so; And the heavens scowled, and the huskies howled, and the wind began to blow. It was icy cold, but the hot sweat rolled down my cheeks, and I don't know why; And the greasy smoke in an inky cloak went streaking down the sky. I do not know how long in the snow I wrestled with grisly fear; But the stars came out and they danced about ere again I ventured near; I was sick with dread, but I bravely said: "I'll just take a peep inside. I guess he's cooked, and it's time I looked"; ... then the door I opened wide. And there sat Sam, looking cool and calm, in the heart of the furnace roar; And he wore a smile you could see a mile, and he said: "Please close that door. It's fine in here, but I greatly fear you'll let in the cold and storm— Since I left Plumtree, down in Tennessee, it's the first time I've been warm." There are strange things done in the midnight sun By the men who moil for gold; The Arctic trails have their secret tales That would make your blood run cold; The Northern Lights have seen queer sights, But the queerest they ever did see Was that night on the marge of Lake Lebarge I cremated Sam McGee.

Up until last week I have been out prospecting five days a week. October in northern Nevada has been great but winter storms were predicted so last week was my last. It chilled off considerably in Reno the last couple days with highs in the 40s and lows in the 20s. Main development was snow in the high country and even a little on the roofs in Reno this morning. Snow in the mountains is a good thing what with the drought and all, but puts an end to my maybe going up into the Sierras on day trips. Looks like time to settle down into winter mode. When I moved to Reno I had visions of hunting here until fall, and then hunting Arizona in the winter. Reality has set in and I have found that after prospecting more or less non-stop for two thirds of the year that taking the other third off seems like a good thing. The plan now is to do a little detecting for jewelry in the parks during warmer spells of weather or maybe even a day trip prospecting now and then if it warms enough. But the week long trips are done for now. The good news is more time to work on the website/forum and do a little more writing. Anyone have any great winter plans? You guys farther south are no doubt gearing up with the cooler weather. Chris and I are looking at a trip to Arizona in February but main goal there is to visit the Tucson Gem & Mineral Show.

One thing for sure I want to emphasize I am not recommending running a detector full out as a "best practice". Too much noise can indeed mask the signals you are looking for and it is mentally tiring. I was discussing it as a method for pulling gold out of areas that no longer produce using other methods. There are very many people who prefer for good reason to run a machine with the quietest most stable threshold possible. The good news is we have settings on detectors that allow us to run them whichever way suits us best. While I tend to run my detectors hot and noisy good buddy Chris Ralph prefers smooth and quiet. And we both bring home the gold. Roots can produce signals for a variety of reasons. One most people might not consider is what happens when you get a large root in real bad ground. In those situations you are sometimes not detecting the root itself but the void created in the mineralized ground.

There are certain unpleasant facts of life in metal detector land. One is that gold and certain "not gold" items produce identical signals. Gold nuggets occur in every form imaginable from solid lumps to collections of wispy hairs. Small to large. Pure gold to gold with varying mixes of silver and copper. Different conglomerations of gold and rock, etc. Most gold nuggets in many locations are easily detectable. The first easy crop was skimmed off with VLF detectors. The second deeper crop got hit hard by PI detectors. It is a game of diminishing returns and in most hard hit locations we are now down to cleaning up the leftovers. To do that we have to go after gold previously hidden because it mimics the items we tuned out previously with other detectors. Roots are an example of a target that mimics the response of certain types of gold. You can go about the issue two ways. A. Use a detector or a setting that ignores the roots. This is nice for those who prefer quiet, well behaved detectors. Simply get a GPX, then experiment to find the coil and setting that ignores the roots. This is where the GPX excels - you can get it set up to ignore most any annoying non-gold signals. Now detect away and find all the gold that does not mimic roots. But what if you are in an area detected for decades that no longer produces by doing this? Second method B. comes into play. Use a machine or setting that lights up the roots. Now, to the best of your ability, mentally evaluate the signals and decide which to dig and which to ignore. Your ears and mind are the best discrimination system made for detecting. Yes, it is harder and yes, you will dig more non-gold signals. But that is how the game has always been played whether it is coin hunting, jewelry detecting, relic hunting, or prospecting. Invariably when working pounded locations you have to get down and dirty, work harder, and dig more borderline signals. The more you do it however the easier it gets and so this methodology is best for people putting in hundreds of hours a year detecting. You have to use the detector enough to become fluent in its language. The evolution of the Minelab PI series was in adding more and more ways to eliminate non-gold signals. There are situations where this is the best strategy and for some people who hate a noisy detector it is the only way to go. The GPZ really is much more a Super VLF designed to light up as much gold as possible with one detector and one coil. In doing so it can and will light up other non-gold items as well. I do think they will do as they did with the GPX and add modes that eliminate salt responses or roots - whatever. Be aware though there is no free lunch and engaging any such mode will come at a certain cost in missed gold. That option is certainly worthwhile in some situations. I am doubtful I am ever going there myself however. The GPZ has returned me to my VLF beginnings and the real art of hunting by ear. The more you use the GPZ the more all the sounds and noise become music to your ears. Right now I would be rather uncomfortable if my detector was not providing me with constant audio feedback. If my GPZ is running dead quiet first thing I do is jack it up until I get some noise back. A perfectly tame detector is just that - tame. It is the difference between driving a nice little commuter car or a twitchy sports car. My basic view of detecting is it should be enjoyable. Use whatever machines and tuning methods you like to keep you at it. Frustration may cause people to quit and quitters get no gold. But if you are going to go hard core then pushing machines to absolute limits and relying more on ears and mind will ultimately deliver gold in "hunted out" locations that others have missed. Check this out - Electrical Conductivity of Trees http://creating-a-new-earth.blogspot.com/p/earths-internet-electrical-conductivity.html

No worries, I have enjoyed the discussion. You could do us all a big favor and if you do get the T2, report back here later about your thoughts on it. I have been trying to weed my detector collection down for the last year. So far my F75SE has survived the cuts. Not only is it a very powerful and versatile VLF but it feels better on my arm than any other detector I have ever used. Superb ergonomics.

Impressive Jason - congratulations!!

I can't honesty say for sure though I am doubtful there is much difference. However, I did find a post from the man who would know best - Dave Johnson at Link deleted since Findmall Forum update broke all old links "Despite their obvious similarities, the T2 and F75 have rather different "front end" circuits. The F75 is slightly hotter in an air test with no electrical interference, but by a small enough margin that it's hard to prove that margin actually exists under actual field conditions. "Deeper" is a function not just of the electronics, but also how you set up and use the machine under what conditions. Because of differences in scaling, it is not possible to set up a T2 and F75 "exactly the same" in discrimination mode, and in the hands of some users under some conditions those differences would give a slight advantage to the T2 on low conductors. To simplify all that: both machines are general purpose machines, but between the two, in the hands of most users the T2 will be slightly better for relic hunting and gold prospecting whereas the F75 will be slightly better for coinshooting. That's the basic idea and there's no need to get lost in the details. --Dave J." Keep in mind almost all comparison stuff you will hear about is comparing and referring to the discrimination modes. Almost nobody except prospectors use all metal mode much.

They are very similar but they are not the same. The T2 came first and the F75 later. The differences however are more on the coin detecting side than the nugget detecting side of things as the all metal modes are near identical. The short answer is I think I could find gold just as well with either model. The biggest difference from a practical perspective is the T2 can only use DD coils.The F75 can also employ concentric coils so it has a few more coil options. For instance, the F75 can use the small 4" x 6" elliptical concentric that looks identical to that used on the Gold Bug 2. That coil will not work on the T2. On the discriminate side the T2 has an expanded iron range which relic hunters prefer. The iron range is from 0 - 39 on the T2 and 0 - 15 on the F75. This could be of slight advantage towards T2 if hunting gold in disc modes in trashy locations. The F75 saves settings when turned off, T2 does not. F75 has a backlight, T2 does not. Still, at the end of the day if I had to buy a T2 base model versus the F75 base model strictly for gold detecting I would probably go T2 because it costs less and I am confidant I could find gold as well with either. It is only because I value some of the other non-gold nugget features that I have always leaned F75 personally. Best bet is to study the owners manuals T2 Base Model Owners Manual F75 Base Model Owners Manual I have done very well with the F75SE which in theory has a tiny edge in all metal boost mode over the basic models that lack the boost mode, but like everything metal detecting it is a minimal edge. http://www.fisherlab.com/hobby/finds-Steve-Herschbach.htm I will close with a warning though. The T2 was one of the first detectors used in Africa to find gold and early on the locals thought it was the only detector that could find gold. As a result it became hugely popular. Not because it really is that superb but just because it caught on first. These days I believe it has largely been supplanted by the Gold Bug Pro in Africa as the locals finally figured out the GBP can hit smaller gold than the T2 or F75 while doing just as well on the larger stuff.

Here is a good Sunday read for you. Reg wrote what is still the best introductory text on PI detectors. Recently he added extra chapters at the Findmall forum. Even if you read the original before it is worth reading again. Understanding The PI Metal Detector by Reg Sniff http://chemelec.com/Projects/Metal-1a/Understanding-the-PI-Detector.htm Deepest PI Detector by Reg Sniff Part One Link deleted since Findmall update broke old links Deepest PI Detector by Reg Sniff Part Two Link deleted since Findmall update broke old links

According to Rob this deal ends today though there is probably a couple days wiggle room if you order immediately. http://forums.nuggethunting.com/index.php?/topic/11685-fall-gpx-promos-about-to-end-get-in-now/ I have been hearing mixed messages on the 4500 - some say the deal is permanent but Rob says it is also going to end. In my opinion that would be very unfortunate as Minelab desperately needs an entry level PI. While some may argue $2699 is hardly entry level by most standards it does provide that option compared to much more expensive Minelab options. I guess we will find out soon.

Australian researchers have found that microscopic gold particles from underground ore deposits are present in tree leaves. Easy read http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2013/10/131022-gold-eucalyptus-leaves-mining-geology-science Cool technical details http://www.nature.com/ncomms/2013/131022/ncomms3614/full/ncomms3614.html

Thanks for pointing that out hawkeye. It is significant. It kind of flew by me as I only use quick track when I fire my detector up. Nice to know the extra level of control is there if needed.