Steve Herschbach

Wow Ron, we have the exact opposite outlook on that. My goal my whole life was to work super hard and be super frugal to hasten the day when I no longer had to do either. I was the hardest working lazy person you would have ever met. Now I'm just lazy and loving it.

I have been detecting with people who claim that small gold is too small for them. Yet if I am digging small bits with a detector and their detector can’t find those bits, I’ve never seen a person yet that was happy about that. The question is, do you want to be finding gold or not? I’ve dug as many as 100 of those tiny bits in a day with a Gold Bug 2 and you know what, they add up. Plus, they keep you going until a larger nugget comes along. People who are finding nothing tend to go home. People finding a tiny bit every 10-15 minutes tend to keep at it. In general I have to chuckle at people who say they detect for the fresh air, and those that say small gold is not worth their time. Except Reg of course. No, the rest of us are out there to find gold and small gold is better than no gold.

Besides this one? No. The Manticore with M8 coil can hit tinier gold than the E1500. The E1500 will easily hit bigger gold at better depth in highly mineralized ground than the Manticore. In low mineral ground or very trashy ground the case can be made that the Manticore might be the better choice for some people, just like the Equinox 800 has done well for some prospectors. Think deep tailing piles with deep nails and cans or the middle of an old mining camp. And while the E1500 has a discrimination system of sorts it is conductivity based not ferrous vs non-ferrous, and requires target by target analysis. The Manticore you can set for two tone ferrous vs non-ferrous, far more efficient and helpful in true trash scenarios. It's the same old VLF vs PI story - nothing has changed. People expecting the E1500 to be some new magic wand are barking up the same hopes are going to be dashed tree that grows up every time we see a new model come out.

My view from the hill….

I find the speculation that the E1500 will somehow outperform detectors costing much more money to be, well, how to put this nicely… questionable at best. If this detector was GPX 6000 class it would be stupid to sell it for one quarter the price of a GPX 6000. I don’t think Alex is stupid. Here is the current price structure in Australia as of today after Garrett just introduced the lower priced stripped down Axiom package: 1. GPZ 7000 $10,499 2. GPX 6000 $8,999 with two coils 3. Garrett Axiom $4,999 with one coil 4. SDC 2300 $4,399 5. E1500 with Sadie & Battery $2649 6. Minelab Manticore $2499 7. Gold Monster $1299 I have pretty solid information in hand indicating that you are going to get what you pay for. The E1500 is a very affordable option at close the price of a top end VLF and will outperform said VLFs on gold in mineralized ground. Time will tell but I think the E1500 will fall short of SDC 2300 and Axiom level performance, essentially being a bridge between VLF detectors and those models. The 6000 and 7000 will continue to rule the roost but at twice the price of the SDC/Axiom level you are not getting twice the depth. Pulling a number out of my ass I’d assign a very debatable expectation of about a 15% increase in overall performance at each major step up in price. People can of course argue that number all day long but I think it is very important to give newbies some sense of reality. Twice the money does not get twice the performance. Gains are more like 10% - 15% - 20%…. pick your number, but it’s not double, triple, quadruple. If I was still selling detectors I’d explain to this new customer that they can go find a gold nugget with a Gold Monster or a Manticore. I’d explain that for not much more than a Manticore they could get an AlgoForce E1500 and be able to deal with mineralized ground and hot rocks that will give the VLF models real trouble. I’d tell them that for substantially more money they could get some very solid bang for the buck in the Axiom/SDC range, a step up from E1500 but still not top tier. Finally, I’d tell them that if money is no object and they simply want the best performance they can get, to look at the 6000 or 7000. I’d comment that out of the box with provided coils the 6000 would have the edge for smaller gold, and the 7000 the edge on larger gold. Adding aftermarket coils (and more money) to the 7000 can close the gap between it and the 6000 on small gold, but nothing you do to the 6000 will have it hitting the big stuff as deep as the 7000. That would be my short and sweet sales presentation and I offer it up as the most simplified big picture no B.S. look at the scene as you are likely to find. My somewhat educated opinions only, feel free to toss in trash bin if you don’t agree. In the States this would be the situation if the E1500 could be had here: 1. GPZ 7000 $8,999 2. GPX 6000 $6,499 with two coils 3. Garrett Axiom $3,995 with two coils 4. SDC 2300 $3,599 5. E1500 with Sadie & Battery under $1999 6. Minelab Manticore $1699 7. Gold Monster $799

Hybrid is the new sales buzzword set to trap detector dollars.

What Simon said. You can’t fairly compare the price of the Axiom with coil and two day battery to the price of an E1500 with no coil or battery. The price decrease was probably more about addressing the fact an Axiom is far less money in the states than a GPX 6000 yet that situation was reversed in Australia. That should never have been allowed to happen.

Is it? I saw nothing about that in the post. Whatever, consider me properly chastised.

Maybe I'm wrong but I’m pretty sure the original poster is basically asking if they can metal detecting for gold nuggets on private property if they have permission from the property owner. I’m going to go out on a limb here and just say yes. Sure, you could define that metal detecting for a gold nugget as a minerals exploration activity requiring legal ownership or permission from the owner of the underlying mineral rights. And that maybe somebody else other than the property owner has those rights and you are violating them. Maybe I’m out of line, but that seems like a bit of a stretch looking for a conflict over what is probably going to be a day spent digging bullets. Chances are very high that if the private ground is of that much interest to a guy with a metal detector it’s probably patented mining ground, so the property owner most likely does have the mineral rights. Metal detecting for gold is generally defined as casual use by BLM and Forest Service so no permits normally required etc. So if I know for a fact Bob owns the ground and he says I can go do my thing I’m not going to lose much sleep over anything beyond that. If Bob is aware of some serious conflict about the mineral rights I’d hope he’d mention something about that. Seems pretty low risk to me. If I want to bring in my excavator and drill rig that’s another matter.

And just a note. I never give your email to anyone without permission. If people try I contact you and give you their email (with their permission) so you can contact them or ignore them. I never give the emails to marketers. I never send out bulk emails. If you get emails from the forum it is because you have something in your settings saying you want a notification email about a thread or something. If you are getting emails and don't want them - turn it off in your settings. The main thing to know is I am a super private person and I hate being bugged and so I try to never bother others. I take security and privacy very seriously. So getting you to update your email is not part of some plot to send you junk mail or something. It is just so you can sign in here and do a password recovery if need be. And notifications about forum activity if you chose to follow something or somebody. That I have nothing to do with - that's in your settings (the Notification Settings seen in the pics in my last post).

When you signed up you gave an email to authenticate your account and also to act as a password recovery email. You also created a display name. When you sign in / log in you have been using your display name and password to sign in. This is going to change to you signing in with your account email and password. It is a good time to be sure your email on account is still one you have access to. Some people get new email accounts and never update it here. That can be a huge problem if you need to reset your password for any reason. In the help post at the top of every forum there is a link to password recovery. It sends a recovery email to the email you have on file here. Wrong email, you are not going to get it. New Member Signup - Click Here! Lost Password - Click Here! <- Password Recovery Forum Tips & Tricks Advanced Search Tag List/Index And again, you will need to enter your email to sign in from now on. Below is how you check and change your display name, email, and password. It is important you update that email. It is very hard now to contact me if you get locked out as I no longer have a contact page on the website. I got 100 marketing messages a day and got tired of it. The only way you can normally contact me is PM on the website, but you need to be logged in to do that. If you can't log in, you need to use the password recovery. And if you do not have a current email in the system - you are screwed! Well, not quite. If you are reading this you will see my contact email in the screenshots below. The spammers will probably miss this so I will leave this up unless I get inundated again. But making a note of it someplace will allow you to email me if you have a problem signing in. Please do not email me with metal detector or gold prospecting questions. I'll just tell you to post the question on the forum. The email is for emergency forum support only. For big screen device click on your name in upper right. Click on account settings. You will see your email and if it is not correct, you can change it. Big screen Step 1 Big screen Step 2 On small screen devices it takes more steps. In upper right click the three horizontal bars: Small screen Step 1 Small screen Step 2 Small screen Step 3 Small screen Step 4

One or the other of these? I doubt you can get those anywhere but but special ordering from a Garrett dealer or contacting Garrett direct. Contact Garrett

Hi David, Late with the welcome but as an old retired dealer I thought I’d better chime in. You and Dixie Metal Detectors have a long history and respected place in the industry and it’s an honor to have you here. Do take advantage of the classifieds once you qualify. Just be aware we are jaded here so regular ads… well, boring. The membership is looking for your smoking hot deals, especially any used detector deals. All I ever ask in return is a little help answering member questions with the storehouse of knowledge I know you have. Win, win! https://www.detectorprospector.com/topic/433-my-policy-regarding-dealers/

Yes. It's the older bundle wound, now discontinued so on sale at big discount. The new spiral wound EVO replaces it.

When I post I am always posting to everyone, not anyone in particular, unless I am quoting somebody in particular. People with concerns about new product should not buy them for 6 months or a year. Every metal detector of worth released in the last decade has had not just one but often many updates. My iPhone and PC get monthly updates. Cars get recalled. I ran a service department for a large company for years and the list is endless. Be the first owner of a completely new boat, snowmobile or ATV models at your peril. Anybody with concerns about the E1500 should simply wait and not buy one until sufficient time has passed for the earliest owners to find and report issues. That's the way it is with XP, Minelab, Fisher, Garrett.... all of them. Is that right? Should things not be better? Yeah, the list of things in the world that are disappointing and need fixing is endless. Just add all new product vetting and releases to that list. I was and I guess still am pretty excited by this new game in town but frankly find a lot of the commentary about how disappointed people are about various aspects of it to be a bit of a bummer so I'm going to check out of the conversation. When I get one and have at least 100 hours of use I'll probably drop back in with my impressions. Until then, may everyone's pockets fill with gold.

You are one of the optimists Jason. Just because you have been saying something for a decade does not make it true. I’m more in the Simon camp when it comes to a new detector actually having enough of a leap in performance to make an actual real world difference in the gold being found. The GPZ 7000 was a true advancement over what came before and made dead patches come alive again. The 6000 picked up the crumbs. This next go I think we will see improvement more in the ergonomic side than anything else. I place my bet that there will not be genuine performance that outperforms substantially on what we can currently get with the 6000 and 7000 combined, or even just a 7000 with a proper set of aftermarket coils. Metal detectors have a basic limitation in how far they can detect gold items. From http://www.talkingelectronics.com/projects/200TrCcts/MetalDetectors/MetalDetectors-1.html “the sensitivity is roughly proportional to the cube of the object diameter (as expressed as a function of the search coil diameter). Sensitivity is also inversely proportional to the sixth power of the distance between the coil and the object. All this means is that if the object size is halved the sensitivity is reduced to one-eighth. Also, if the depth is doubled the sensitivity is reduced to one sixty-fourth. It’s easy to see why all metal detectors which are designed to pick up small objects use small coils, (150 to 300 mm diameter) and really only skim the soil surface. If the search coil is doubled in diameter for greater penetration the sensitivity to small objects falls to one-eighth. You rapidly encounter the law of diminishing returns.” Famed metal detector engineer Dave Johnson reiterates this in a different way at https://web.archive.org/web/20230719232930/http://fisherlab.com/hobby/davejohnson/davejohnsonjohngardinerinterview.htm “Getting extra depth out of a VLF, multifrequency, or PI machine is very difficult, because these machines follow an inverse 6th power law relationship between signal voltage and depth. If everything else is maintained equal, doubling the depth requires 64 times as much signal. If this is done by increasing transmitter power, doubling depth requires 4,096 times as much battery drain. That’s the basic reason why depth increases come so slowly in this industry.” That is where I think we are now and why the GPZ 8000 has been slow in coming. Much to Minelabs credit they don’t release a machine unless the engineers can point to data showing some real performance improvement differences - you know, those 30% things. But there is actual real world data in hand to back up those claims when they make them. I think in this case the most they might eke out will be a marginal gain they can point to in detection depth on multi ounce nuggets. That’s enough to sell lots of detectors but in the end I think it will be greatly debated whether this new machine is any better in big gold at depth than a modded GP/GPX or 7000 with a big X-Coil. And for anyone but those few still finding the big ones deep on a regular basis nothing that will change anything. Most U.S. patches in particular simply don't have those monster nuggets at depth that people dream of. The 7000 and 6000 have already bled them close to dry. We have hit the wall not only in electronic terms but even more importantly in geological terms. Peter Charlesworth picked a very good time to retire. Go out at the top of your game. I have a ton of respect for Peter and his retirement is a message of sorts for those who follow the business of business. Long story short, next generation my prediction is a small gain at best, so small it won’t make any real difference over returns being seen with machines that we already have at our disposal. I actually hope I am wrong, and I hope I am eating crow and apologizing to you, and acknowledging you were right and I was wrong. Nothing would make me happier!

We've seen this play before. New product announcement near end of this year, going into winter here but heading into spring elsewhere. In time for dealers to take orders going into the holiday season, but no machines probably shipping until early 2025.

The V3i coils had to be made to a higher tolerance, so all V rated coils will work on the DFX M6 MXT VX3 V3i etc. but older coils for those machines that are not V rated may not work on the VX3 and V3i at high gain levels. From the VX3 User Manual: The VX3 uses induction-balanced loops which rely on a “null” between the transmit coil and the receive coil. The quality of the null may determine the point at which the detector overloads, especially when running high Rx Gain settings. Null quality varies loop-to-loop, so some loops may overload at lower gain than others. In other words the quality of the loop null can also push the input amplifier toward overload. White’s V-compatible loops are designed to minimize null limitations, but third-party loops typically have wide variances in the quality of the null which can require a lower Rx Gain. Again, V rated coils are just made to better tolerances, it's the older coils or aftermarket coils that may experience overload at high gain if used on the VX3 or V3i. Even then they will probably work - you'll just have to back the sensitivity down. Models other than the VX3 and V3/V3i it does not matter.

Never met but I have read a lot of his posts, obviously knows his stuff, and willing to share. I hope for a quick and full recovery.

Probably an evaporated milk can, they used a different sealing method than most other cans so have a distinctive look. Very common around old mining camps. Can Middens

Best of luck with your new detector Bugler, and thanks for a great post detailing your gold prospecting journey. I hope I can keep going for as long as you have!! My best advice for the Axiom is use a DD coil to start and keep the sensitivity low initially. The worst thing a new Axiom owner can do is crank up the sensitivity right out of the starting gate. Ease into it. Timbus suggestion on my quiet settings is also well worth keeping in mind.

Some people might see a company that is very willing to listen to new customer feedback and immediately implement suggestions as a good thing.

My posts often have more than one purpose. In this case not everyone, in fact the vast majority of detectors owners in the world, own more than one detector. It’s the easy answer in these forums - just own both. That however is of no help to the large number of people for whom these are expensive investments of money needed to pay bills. Or who don’t want 6 detectors cluttering up the place. For a lot of people it is a choice between this one or that one. Sure, I can afford to have both, but I always have an eye to those who can’t or choose not to, so sharpening the commentary by providing that edge is helpful in more ways than one. That’s for helping provide some clarity on this choice with your own experiences Chuck.

This is a brand specific forum and like all brand specific forums is for people with an interest in the brand. Like all the brand specific forums they are created for people who don’t like being reminded constantly that some people think their interest is stupid and they should really be interested in this other brand. People who persist in this behavior are called trolls, and I take a very poor view towards trolls. If they persist they get banned. I have a forum specifically for this versus that brand comparison commentary where you can compare away all you want. So this is not me censuring anyone, it’s me saying take it to the appropriate forum. Anyone who thinks this or that brand is better than the E1500 is welcome to start a thread on the comparisons forum and lay out their case for that. I’m all for critical comparisons as long as they are honest. But persist on any brand specific forum with comments on how some other brand is better and you will be tagged as a troll and ejected. To be clear just a casual mention or even two is not an issue. It is when any one person repeatedly keeps doing this, especially in the face of little push backs I might drop in now and then. It’s this type of repeated, persistent, and frankly boorish behavior I’m talking about here. On the other hand it’s a given that members of a brand specific forum might rag on and look down on some other brand. So members of the Minelab Forum might be derogatory to other brands and that’s not unexpected. People on the Fisher Forum might take a dim view of Garrett detectors. That is what brand loyalty is all about, liking this brand but not the other. So pay attention to context, which specific forum you are on, and consider how what you are posting fits in. Again, the Comparisons forum is gloves off, and by and large so is the main DP forum. Brand specific forums, not so much. People who insist that the E1500 should outperform much more expensive detectors need to just get over it and move on.

Yeah we are tripping over semantics. When I and the other guys sit around the campfire and talk PI detectors and the detection "hole" what we are all referring to is the gold that is lost in the "holes" in different timing scheme. From our perspective every GPX 5000 timing has a hole of some sort, in that gold you miss in one timing can be detected in a different timing. The gold "falls in the hole." So when people are talking here on this forum that is what we mean by the term "hole" - a layman's definition as opposed to an engineers mathematical definition. I am sure I do not know the exact reasons why this happens but it is easy to show in the field with a GPX 5000 and it's multitude of timings. The problem historically is most 5000 users really did not know the timings scheme well enough to do more than half guess at what they should be running, and often a favorite setting got used everywhere. The only way to do it right was to hunt a patch multiple times with multiple settings. For me personally it feels like an over filtering issue. In bad ground with hot rocks I can apply progressively higher levels of ground compensation. As I ramp up the ground cancellation the machine gets quieter, but at the same time my gold responses drop off. My tuning methodology usually involves riding the edge as close as possible and dealing with some noise and some hot rocks. If I kill the ground completely, kill the hot rocks completely, I will inevitably do a full reset and start over. The Axiom in particular with its hot rock window I can force higher levels of ground and hot rock rejection, but then all the sudden I know I have gone to far, and do a reset. I just know for a lot of years of doing this that the more aggressive the ground cancellation, the more gold that gets missed. Gold grades imperceptibly with depth and mineralization into the ground signal until they are one and the same. The GPZ 7000 was a direct answer to that in attempting to get a machine that would find as much gold as possible in a single pass with as few settings as possible. Garrett referred to this issue on the 5000 and earlier GPX models in their ATX advertising...