sjmpainter

On ‎10‎/‎24‎/‎2017 at 8:08 PM, Bob(AK) said:

Been ther done that as far as no sun in the canyon. Tough this time of the year when you get out of the cold water and into the colder air. Have you ever tried a dry glove set up, works great, no cold hands.

Something that happened to me late Sept last year on Alfred Creek my foot valve kept freezing up with ice and slush. Temp was in the 20's so not that cold, had to quit, B

Bob, I did try the Si Tech dock system. I had Neoprene wrist seals and I think the system I used was designed for Latex. The set up came apart repeatedly and I gave up and went back to the 7mm mitts.

What set up did you find that worked?

On ‎10‎/‎24‎/‎2017 at 10:32 AM, Ridge Runner said:

If it's freezing up it has to be that the compressor is pulling in moister but you can get a filter for that. I think !

Looks colder than a well diggers butt.

Chuck

Ridgerunner, looks like you hit the nail on the head. Good call.

I'll try to add a desiccant dryer to the system. There are many disposable units used for automotive painting that are inexpensive and would probably work well.

These small Motor Guard brand are an example at 19.00 for two shipped, should do the trick.

Steve, that was a good publication! I pulled a section out that is particular to surface supplied umbilical  air diving or Hookah in dredging terms.

12.0 Umbilical Supplied Equipment Freezing: Although surface supplied demand mode umbilical divers use similar

demand regulators used on helmets and full face masks, these demand regulators do not pose a significant threat of

developing ice and /or freezing from the divers exhaled breath because the umbilical in the water operates at low pressures

and the umbilical acts as a thermal heat exchanger and warms the breathing air up to the surrounding water temperature.

Even in salt water at 28°F (-2°C) the air is not cold enough to support ice formation in the second stage components even

at work rates as high as 62.5 - 75 rmv. However, this does not necessarily mean surface supplied divers don’t have worry

about cold water. In generally, surface supplied divers stay in the water a lot longer than SCUBA divers, and in most cases

have to breathe at much higher breathing rates because they are conducting working dives. Overall most surface supplied

divers are supplied with air derived from low pressure compressors. Low pressure compressors can put a lot of moisture in

the volume tank in a very short time depending on the atmospheric humidity. It is imperative for diving operations in cold

areas to insure they have a good moisture separator / filtration system. The most significant cold problem for most umbilical

supplied divers is just trying to stay warm. The next significant problem is not so much the water temperature, but rather

the topside air temperature. In most cases helmet and full face masks supplied air from umbilicals do not get cold enough to

develop ice because the umbilical works as a radiator (heat exchanger) and warms the incoming air up to that of the water

temperature. Unlike SCUBA where if your diving is 32 - 50°F (7 - 10°C) the demand regulator incoming air arriving from

the first stage can easily be in the -5 - 15°F range, where the umbilical supplied air will always be at the same temperature as

the water, which in the worst case would be just below freezing but warm enough to allow the divers exhaled breath keep ice

from forming.

12.1 Topside Cold: If the topside surface air temperatures are well below freezing, (around 25°F or less) excessive moisture

from the volume tank in the form of water droplets can travel into the umbilical that is in the extreme cold topside environment

and freeze into small “ice balls” that can then travel down the umbilical and end up in the side block and bent tube, blocking

off air to the demand regulator. The blockage is not from actual formation of ice within the helmet components but rather the

collection of ice from the surface supply system. The ice that was generated topside blocks passages to the regulator and side

block. The ice can cause a reduction of flow, as well as a complete blockage, stopping all air flow because the down-stream

flow compacts the ice.

The best way to prevent ice from developing in the surface supply system is to insure your volume tank has a good moisture

separator system and the volume tank and moisture separator condensate is drained regularly to avoid moisture buildup.

Air dryers in the form of electric moisture separators are available as well as desiccant type filters. Surface supplied diving

using HP air will not have enough moisture to cause freezing problems with the man worn helmets or masks because most

all modern HP compressors use driers that remove moisture down to a dew point of at least -40°F.

Keeping the umbilical in a heated shack and minimizing how much is exposed to the cold ambient air prevents moisture in

the umbilical from turning into ice. The portion of the umbilical in use in the water is at the same temperature of the water

and will not normally be cold enough to allow any water in the umbilical to freeze as long as the water you are diving in is

not below 32°F (0°C). As long as the portion of umbilical topside in the air is kept above 32°F (0°C), there will be little risk

of generating ice from a wet supply system. The safest bet is drain the volume tank and filters on a regular interval and run

good dryers, which could be refrigerant or desiccant type .

Stay Warm.

461 woohoo got the big boy!

Direct mount is the way to go. Make sure you have a good sprocket on your saw, if not get one they are cheap.

Also get a good strap to tie back with, I use a cross arm strap to wrap around trees and rocks.

Funny thing about getting a Lewi winch - you make excuses to need to move large inanimate objects. LOL.

FYI- do not use a stock bumper as a anchor point! Just sayin.

 Looks to me like it would be an excellent tool for the camp or garage to clean dredge concentrates.

I use a gold cube now for that but I like an open sluice design just so I can see the gold as I process the cons.

I can say my Lewis winch has never let me down and they are sill manufacturing them so you can get parts if need be.

Other than the weight I think you will be happy with one.

I have an old Homelite Super xl12 mounted to mine, if you put a newer Stihl on it you can save a bunch of weight.

If you go with a smaller saw you may want a snatch block to double the pull force.

One thing about the older Homelite equipment they are built like tanks, may want to take the time to look at it.

In anticipation of cold weather dredging I decided to spend some money on new dive gear. I was able to get a great deal on a Bare Pro D6 dry suit off Ebay.

Turned out to be an excellent purchase. The suit was brand new with tags still on it and came with a new set of gloves and hood as well for 499 shipped.

The size was an extra large short witch is perfect in length and the chest is a 44'' also perfect, but a bit large in the mid section at 35'' witch actually turned out to be a blessing as I was able to wear my heavy Filson wool gear under for some extra warmth. The boots are an xxl size there again I was able to wear two pair of wool socks for a perfect fit.

My old suit is a Bare Pro D6 in large regular, bit too long for me but a good fit with out too much under gear on. Had that suit about six years and it is in need of a new neck seal and a good checking over for pinholes. Rite now its more of a  wet suit than dry. LOL.

I was out dredging last Saturday in the new suit. Fist time in a while I was warm and dry. Pretty excited about that considering the temp was 22 F and the water dam cold.

I also purchased a full face mask, instead of going with goggles and a mouth piece. Ended up getting the new OTS Spectrum mask for 399.00 witch is cheap for a full face mask. It comes with out a regulator so you need to supply that, but most any will fit it. I did come to find my cheap Oceanic regulator is not a good cold weather/water dive regulator.

I really like this mask a lot but fair warning, OTS claims one size fits most with the double seal, but if you have  large face best to try it for fit as I have a small face and I cant see it fitting comfortable on a person that needs a large.

As far a my head I wear  a 7mm Bare dry hood and 7mm three finger mitts with Kevlar palms for my hands.

Here is a pic from Saturday. Sure wish that sunshine could get down in the canyon a little bit.

If you look close at the picture you can see steam coming off the river, that water is about 38 Deg. F. I think the air temp was about 18 Deg. F.

Stayed nice and warm in the new gear but as I mentioned my regulator was my problem. Keep freezing up in the cold water and cut my dredge time short. I did manage to clear out a yard or so of pay dirt for a total of 1/8 ounce of gold for the day but I was having to surface about every 5 minutes and put my mask in front of the exhaust on the dredge and that was a bit much for me.

Funny how you plan really carefully but overlook one item and that negates all the planning.

So - I'm in the market for a good cold water regulator any one got suggestion?

Heading back to town coming out of Turnagain Pass I  snapped a picture of the Chugach Mountains over by Girdwood. Enjoy!

Bob, Here is a good one for you.

Alaska DOT Road Weather Information System (RWIS)

This link is for all sites in Alaska.

http://roadweather.alaska.gov/iways/roadweather/forms/AreaSelectForm.html

Here is the link for the Summit lake site.

http://roadweather.alaska.gov/iways/roadweather/forms/SiteSum.html?areaId=2&perspectiveId=1&siteId=11

Hope this is of use.

Gpldgetter, they work great! Also you can pull the pin and freespool if you need to back it up.

Ruhl makes a really nice chainsaw winch also. Quite a bit lighter than the Lewis brand.

Also I use a Lug-All 2 ton hand winch quite a bit.

let me know what you end up with.

Chris the bucket I found only had 31 gm. In it. Sorry must not be the one you lost?

I did check the hour meter on my dredge and its reading 102 hrs. Looks like it takes a easy 17 hrs. of dredging to produce an ounce of gold. LOL.

Best prospecting partner you can have!

Welcome to Cold Foot Alaska!

Some gold in the box

HH

Yes, I am referring to cubic feet per second.

I use a USGS site that may be of interest to anyone working in/around water. I have a link on my smart phone and I can check water conditions anywhere, really cool!

Here is a link https://waterdata.usgs.gov/nwis 

Thanks Delnorter, 

I am using two belts for a total of 100lbs. Keeps me on the bottom good but hard to get out of the water.

I tend to be really meticulous on the nozzle so as to not get any plug ups and have to get out with that much weight on.

Most of the smart dredgers in the area build back dams to slow the water down.

The water was flowing at 850 ft per second  that day. And I'm working behind a  massive rock out crop. 

I stop dredging at about 2000 ft per second .

The hard part for me is the cold water after 3-4 hours I'm finding it hard to keep going.

Tom, I'm with Bear, going to build a rock sled and use a winch mounted to a four wheeler. I also use a Lug-All come along, rated at four thousand pounds and I have a gas powered Lewis Winch.

A lot of the guys are using the old steel milk crates to move rocks.

Would love to see some pic of your two inch dredge in action.

Bear, I can assure you the boys will appreciate those two!

Are you done for the season?

I had a goal of ten ounces and not quite there so I'm going keep at it for a while to see how close I can get. Termination dust is coming down the mountain and light is going fast - hope I can make it. LOL.

Steve. I did install TinyTachs on the dredge, I'll look this weekend to see how many hours are on the dredge. Should be interesting to know how many hours it takes to get the six ounces, on any account - YES, it was a lot of work.

I am finding a lot of Mercury on my gold. Did you have the same experience while dredging up Mills Creek?

Kind of curious when the old timers used Mercury in their operation at Canyon Creek.

JD, that is just insane small gold! What is that 200 mesh? WOW! Good Job!

Dredging may be brutal work but it also has the ability to be an excellent stress reliever.

Can you find the dredger in this Pic.

Working about eight feet down at this point, looks like a few feet more to the bottom.

Interesting I uncovered a cast iron piece that I think is a yoke from an old hydraulic water cannon. I'll get some pictures this weekend and post, maybe someone can identify it?

HH Guys.......

End of the dredge season is coming! Temps are dropping and the river will freeze in the next few week, thought I would take a moment to share my gold take so far.

Seems like a lot of work but I did manage to get about six ounces, mostly fine stuff but a few nice nuggets in the mix

Hope where ever you guys are dredging the water is a hell of a lot warmer.

Forum member East Texas Chris came to Alaska last summer to do a little fishing and hunt for gold. I let him prospect on my claim at Canyon Creek in the Kenai Peninsula while he was here, even let him use a dredge to work with.

Chris did a great job dredging by the bank with the 2 inch dredge I believe he ended up with about an 1/8th oz. of gold for the effort.

Been really busy the last few months, but Saturday I got some free time. I decided to dredge the spot Chris worked last summer to make sure the area was clear of gold. Well about the area he had been standing wile dredging I found a crack in the bedrock, after busting it open and cleaning it up I was surprised to find about 10 G. of fine flakes and a really pretty 4 G. nugget.

Really nice to see nuggets.

Hope you enjoy the gold.

I've had USPS tell me the insurance is only good on packages that are properly packaged. The package was double boxed and spray foam filled. They said by the damage that occurred I should have put it in a wood crate! Refused my claim. So much for insurance. LOL!

Jim I have a four inch Sub Surface dredge and surface dredge. I use both annually.

What I can say is if you are in a area with fine gold and little to no chunky or nugget type stuff and your goal is to maximize the gold weight take home at the end of the day then you need to run a surface dredge. I figure the loss on fine gold is about fifty percent give or take.

Running the two side by side all day I notice the surface dredge is netting a solid 1/4 oz. and the Subbie 1/8 oz. What I see missing from the Sub Surface dredge is the fine gold, there is some but noticeable less, but usually a similar amount of chunky gold.

I have tried to modify the box with classification and grizzly bars but it didn't help and may have been worse off as the box packed up and could not clean out.

One thing I did that worked  is I used the Subbie to move the over burden and a two inch dredge to clean the bedrock cracks. That worked really well. On the days that I did that I found I ended up with more than a 1/4 oz. As odd as it may sound I feel the two inch dredge has the best gold recovery of any size dredge. My two inch is a single stage and the four and six are the triple type. Go figure that one?

The real reason to use a Sub Surface dredge is portability! For a one man dredge operation getting In remote locations or sampling work they just can't be beat by a smaller dredge and a larger size is weight prohibitive.

Also the cost to assemble a four inch Subbie is a lot less than the surface dredge.

I'm curious to hear from the others.

WOW, nice chunks of gold Bob! That is really encouraging for me, I'm a bit down from Mills and so far got a lot of fine gold and a few nuggets about a penny weight each. So yeah thanks for the motivation.

Hmmmmm - 913 coins seems like an odd number. I bet the tune up guy is happy

Bob - AWSOM FINDS. Love the posts!

I have in-laws heading up in July, thinking of heading to Kennecott mine with them. Haven't been there in years.

You and Steve both mention the Wrangles as places you found Copper. Would that area be good?

That old iron bridge on the way to McCarthy. Yeah the one over the deep gorge. Bungee Jumping off that is over rated - Just Saying.

On ‎4‎/‎25‎/‎2017 at 4:14 PM, tvanwho said:

I am glad you got the snow that missed us this winter, mostly.

Nice color. I have yet to get out and test that 2 inch dredge I built last year.

Still waiting for my big toe to heal up.Had the nail removed permanent like , was tired of painful ingrown nails from after prospecting trips. we are having 70's weather and sunny this week, YIPPEE !!!

Tom, I know about things that need to heal up! After last Saturdays outing I need the swelling to go down on my EGO.

Keep me posted on that 2 inch dredge. Curious how that dose for you.

Headed up last Saturday by myself. My dredge buddy had birthday parties for the kids.

With all the ice coming down the river I decided not to put the six inch dredge in, incase I couldn't get it back out, instead I ran my subsurface dredge.

The water ran very cloudy and I think I nocked my goggles in the river when I lunched the dredge so I was long arm, blind dredging.

Ran for about 20 minuets and had to make an emergency stop. Coffee gets me every time

Checked the box to see how things looked. (Best part of a small dredge is you can do a clean out really fast). Anyway found a nice little picker in the mix. 1-2 gram. Well that got me motivated a bit so I cleared overburden from a 10 x 10 area in the next few hours. Getting a bit cold and tired I stopped to check the box. Pretty packed from hogging material not much there so cleaned her out and took a motivational break. I'm finding you really have to CON - vince oneself to keep dredging in cold temps.

Spending the last few hours clearing a nice big area of overburden and thinking of that nice little picker I got - well I got back in there and gave it the "Old Hail Mary". I just knew my effort was going to be well rewarded if I cleaned the bedrock good.

Boy was I getting tired and the ice drifts were floating down and wacking me and the dredge. WHEW- prospecting is starting to be a lot of hard work!

At about 5pm I got a solid plug in the hose and I had cleaned most of the nooks and crevis in the area, so I said enuf. Time to see the reward.

Crawled out of the hole and to the dredge I went. #@!&*** I see my hose sitting in a way that it looked fine from were I was dredging, BUT it popped of the sub surface tube and I had spent the last few hours dumping what ever treasure I just sucked up- back into the river!!!!! ( pretty sure it was a multi ounce loss )

Here is a picture of the little nugget that got me to do a lot of practice, I think i'm  gonna name this one.

                                                     " FOOLS GOLD"