abenson

Could be. And you're right GB numbers only tell the type of mineralization not the strength.

I've always owned at least 1 metal detector with a mineralization meter, right now it's the Deus 2. But in the past I would usually use an F75 or T2. I even went to the trouble or making a document on my phone with all the mineralization meter readings at the different sites I hunt. For me it's very important to know what type of soil I'm dealing with. But based on past experience with the Manticore it appears that the lower the GB number is the more mineralized the ground is. Now whether that's right or not it seems to work in my area. I usually get GB at 2 0r 3 in pegged out meter dirt around here and about a 13 GB number in the 3-4 bar dirt. One area I hunt in Wyoming that has the mineralization meter empty on the Deus 2 GB's at 23.

Totally agree Steve! Although I don't have an Axiom, I have had one in my hands a few times. After using a bunch of GP and GPX models in the past, at this point in my life I don't think I'll ever go back to one. Ergonomics are the key here, internal battery, wireless headphones, etc. And although there are accessories you can buy that can make the GPX more ergonomic, the Axiom is just so much more enjoyable to use. Once after market coils come available for the Axiom, any gap in performance between the 5000 and Axiom would probably close right up on all target sizes. If I didn't already own a GPX 6000 I would jump on an Axiom in a heartbeat.

Prior to all this testing I've been doing, your settings about mimicked mine. I would usually park hunt in AT LC sensitivity at 22-24 EMI allowing and recovery at 3 or 4. I'm now using AT HC tamed down and getting much better depth and better target ID. Both the Equinox and Deus 2 you can push the sensitivity up and lower the recovery speed, most times resulting in better performance. Finding this is not the case with the Manticore.

That is pretty common in my soil. What you are seeing is the target just getting pulled from the ground mineralization on deeper targets. Ferrous limits in this case are the ground. I can move the ferrous limits down to 1 or up to max (6 if I recall correctly) and the target will always just trace right above what the ferrous limits are set at. Changing the ferrous limits in some cases can make the target sound better. But the point is if you get a target that traces just above the ferrous limits you better dig it. Edit-the above pertains to lower ferrous limits.

I was pretty comfortable with the Manticore before the update. Had settings that were producing good finds and I was just starting to really get it figured out. If I think back I don't recall ever really saying anything bad about the Manticore. And for the most part I've been pretty quiet about the Manticore in general. Then Minelab released the update and everything went out the window, in some ways that has been good because it's forced me to think outside the box when it comes to setting up the Manticore for different sites. If Minelab does another update all I'm about to say could change. Remember I have mid to high mineralized dirt and most places also have a considerable amount of alkaline too. So my settings may not work for you. But they may help you in some way. A lot of my settings and general thought process about how to setup the Manticore for different sites has changed over the last 2 weeks. AT LC is still my preferred mode for general relic hunting and trashy iron sites. AT HC would be my preferred mode if I did much park hunting, which I don't (but I have recently just to do testing). I'm going to leave the beach out of this for now because I haven't beach hunted for a few months and not at all with the update. What I'm finding for my area is I can't have it all with one mode. If I'm hunting for copper or silver coins I need to use AT HC, if I'm relic hunting I need to use AT LC. Those modes just perform better for the specific targets I'm looking for. Some people are saying general or fast works best for them and that's great, probably determined by the type of soil you have. But for me it's AT LC and AT HC. With the Update I've found the biggest factors that affect Manticore stability and performance are recovery speed and sensitivity, this could also be true for the old version, but it's not as apparent in my ground. Before the update I was using recovery at 3 or 4 and sensitivity at a level just below what EMI or ground conditions would allow. The Manticore did ok with these settings, but was still a little sparky and ID on deep targets were not the best. But it was doable. Over the last week I've just figured out with the update, I'm sure this will spill over into the earlier version. Running recovery at 6 and sensitivity at a level far below what is actually stable is the best combination for most modes on the Manticore. The video below shows just how much higher sensitivity affects depth and target ID. From all this I learned above I went to my local park yesterday that has pretty bad mineralization and used AT HC with recovery at 6, sensitivity at 18, 1 region all tones, default ferrous limits. In some areas I had to lower the sensitivity to 14 due to EMI. I didn't find anything spectacular, but it was the most enjoyable hunts I think I've had to date with the Manticore. Iron sounded like iron, coins sounded like coins and had 3-4 digit ID spreads, trash sounded like trash and had 8-10 digit ID ranges. I did dig 3 deep nails but I knew they were going to be nails, just wanted to test my theory. Nickels were 26-28 and targets I dug outside that range were always trash like pull tabs and balls of foil. Copper pennies and dimes had a nice tight 3-4 digit ID range 77-80, quarters were pretty dead on 87/88. Deepest target I dug was 8" and was a copper snap about the size of a dime, ID was a little jumpy but it never had and iron grunt to it. Where as the nails had iron grunt with a high tone in the penny/clad dime range.

Right now with the UPDATE in 4 bar dirt made up of hematite, I'm seeing the best results on my 7" dime using AT HC, recovery 6, sensitivity 18-20, 1 region all tones, normal audio with a simple profile, default ferrous limits, all metal disc pattern, with a medium slow sweep speed. With those settings I'm seeing 78-80 ID consistently and I can pick the target out of my trashy test garden with my eyes closed. Meaning I don't know where the target is and the audio stands out amongst all the roofing nails in my yard while sweeping along in the yard with my eyes closed.

It's more than just recovery speed. I hesitate to say much because some are running the new software and some the old. Some have mineralized dirt and some mild so what works in one scenario, might not work in another. And if Minelab does another update things could change again. I started to realize about 2 weeks ago with all this testing between the 2 software versions (I've been back and forth between the 2 probably 6 times now), that I was trying to run the Manticore like I did my Equinox 800. What I really needed to do is look at the Manticore as a totally different machine, which it is. Lets just take recovery speed as an example. Like UT Dave, I for the most part set my recovery at 3 or 4 on the Equinox 800 and it did great at the majority of the locations I hunt. Recovery at 3 on the Manticore (most recent update) causes some real issues in my dirt. Recovery at 6 is much better. I'll just say this. Once you have the Manticore dialed in on the right mode, with the right sensitivity, recovery, ferrous limits, swing speed, etc. It's a totally different Machine and I can with confidence say it's deeper that the Equinox and just as stable once you set it up right. For example I have a 7" clad dime buried in my yard that has 4 bar dirt and I can not only get that dime with clear audio, but I can also get the ID to within 2 or 3 numbers consistently. But like I said, what works for me might not work for someone else.

RSmith you're onto something. The first thing people need to realize is the Manticore is not an Equinox 800 and shouldn't be setup like one. I've been doing hours and hours of testing with the Manticore and I'm finding some interesting things out about it. Problem is until they fix the issue I'm having in my ground, there's little point in saying anything about it here. Because the two software versions are so different from each other in performance.

I don't have an 800 anymore, but from past experience I think the results would be similar to the Manticore without the update. I have to agree with you Simon, number 7 would be my conclusion as well. With the M8 coil mounted up the Manticore has no problem with those same targets running the update.

This is why I don't like the update in my soil. Just when I thought I had it tweaked to get some decent depth around here, I did another comparison between the old and new software. There's definitely something wrong. I don't think a person realizes, including myself just how bad it is in mineralized soil until you actually compare the two versions on targets side by side. The old version is what I'll stick with once I get a bunch more testing done or until Minelab fixes the issue.

Just to set the record straight. I like the Manticore, I just don't like the update. If Minelab can fix the issues I'm having in my soil I'll gladly go to a newer version. But for now I'll stay with the older version. Doesn't matter what mode I use with the update it simply doesn't perform the same as the old version. Here's a video of what I'm seeing in high mineral dirt on coin sized targets with the update. It's not too impressive, Manticore is pretty much calling everything iron.

This is why I have slowly sold off most of my metal detectors except a select few. It's going to take a lot to convince me I need another metal detector if something new comes out. A person needs to do more and more research to uncover sites that someone over looked. Or take a bulldozer to the ones that exist and shave a few inches off the top to get the deeper stuff masked by trash. The work involved often times isn't worth it. Can't say I haven't made some amazing finds over the last 5 years, some of the best in the 40+ years of metal detecting. But it requires traveling sometimes 1000's of miles or hiking into remote areas to make them. 90% of the time I would have been better off just staying home and cleaning the yard. But it's the adventure that keeps me going, at some point I'm going to have to say enough is enough and find a different hobby. But yea, not a business I would like to be in right now.

I haven't given up on the Manticore yet. I am getting to know it better every time I use it. I think the biggest issue is over driving the machine and that goes for the 900 too. AT HC is a real bad program to use in moderate to high mineralization or in nail beds, it's way too sparky. Keeping the sensitivity within the limits of both ground and EMI is another thing to consider. I will usually run my sensitivity up to where is just starts to chatter and then back it off 1 point. If you have EMI noise in the audio you're asking for trouble. At first I hated the update on the Manticore and went back to the old version. But I've been having some conversations with Minelab about the update and have been using it more and more employing some of the features in the update to allow the Manticore to run more stable. Minelab won't admit it but I really think they have done something to the sensitivity with the new update. I can run mine about 2 points higher than before in most places. Stabilizer at 1 can also be used to calm some EMI allowing higher sensitivity settings and it appears to stabilize the ID somewhat without affecting depth. That being said, the Deus 2 is much more enjoyable to use and I feel more confident in what I'm digging.

What I've found from probably about 100+ hours is AT HC is basically worthless for the type of hunting I do in the moderate to high mineral ground I have. The only place I would use AT HC is in a relatively free from iron field with low minerals. It worked great for me in North Carolina. But around here I have found AT LC to be my go to mode for most of my detecting. AT LC has way less falsing and a more stable ID in sites with lots of iron and on deeper targets in my moderate to high mineralization. I've got a few videos I'll post over the next week or so showing the Manticore in action using AT LC. The M8 coil is also proving to be a real asset to the Manticore in iron and in high mineraliztion. I've toyed with the idea of going back to the 800. But the more I use the Manticore and learn how to set it up correctly for different sites the more I like it and doubt I'll go back to the 800.

Around here I see most people using Whites and Minelab machines. Garrett never really went over big in my state. Most people at the club I belong to still use Whites machines but are slowing moving over to other brands, now that they are forced to.

Wow nice haul. That a good bit of jewelry.

Looks like they are really comparing the Nokta Simplex to the Nox by the description.

Yep have used audio response a number of times to calm EMI. Also a good idea to lower it in heavy iron too reduce falsing. Usually run mine at 3 or 4 but have been down to 2 at times.

Dang Steve you have about 10 years more than I do in this wonderful hobby. I've been on this forum for about 7 years and only really participated in any discussions for about 3 or 4. But I have enjoyed every minute of it. Everyone on here is helpful and encouraging when it comes to learning about metal detecting. Steve you have and still are a great asset to the metal detecting hobby. The list of metal detectors you've help develop in one way or another is telling or your knowledge when it comes to this hobby. I've enjoyed getting to know you, and you have giving me more tips and tricks pertaining to gold prospecting that you'll ever know. The few outings I've been on with you have been nothing short of amazing and educational. I've enjoyed all your stories and discussions as we've sat around freezing or sweating our butts off in the Nevada desert. Hopefully I'll be able to coax you into getting out a few more times before you totally hang it up.

I've been running 1.1 for a while now at a bunch of my sites. I really can't give you any specifics of why I like it over .71, but I sure have been finding a lot of stuff. Since there's nothing that stands out as an issue with version 1.1 I have just stayed with it. Right now programs based off General seem to be the best for the relic sites I'm hunting. Still like PWM audio the best. Stable ID at depth is the big plus on the D2 IMO. It's clearly got the Equinox and Manticore beat in that department.

I usually find nuggets in the .10 to 1 gram size. The pan is just to display the nuggets on. To recover a nugget I dig a hole with a pick until the target is in the pile. Then grab a plastic scoop to isolate the target by waving the scoop filled with dirt over the coil. Once it's in the scoop I transfer dirt from the scoop to my hand discarding dirt as I go until I can see the nugget. I have some prospecting videos on my channel if you want to see how the process works.

I already thinned my detectors to 4 units. 3 I use regularly and 1 loaner. At this point in time I need to think about what I would realistically use on a regular basis. I just think the X-Terra pro would be one I would use a few months and sell anyway. I think the Legend would be the best option if I were to actually buy another detector. But I'd rather use that money buying coils for the ones I already own.

Jeff that's all I needed to hear about the X-terra Pro. Since my ground conditions are similar to yours, I will not be getting one. I was toying with the idea, but now I'll pass.

Yep it can be frustrating and that's why I hunt a lot of places with a PI.