auminesweeper

White destroyed them selves 4 years ago, They produced a Lemon and made fake videos and lied and then skirted around the issues and it was one problem after another and still they would not react for nearly a month and then they refused to do a Re-Call, People had to send back their machines 4, 5, and 6 times until they had to stop production in order to fix all the machines with problems as a form of a Re-Call and still they would not put their hands up and except the blame, As a devoted Whites User this was so embarrassing and had the same Cringe value as walking in the bathroom while ya 90 year old Grand Ma is taking a bath,

I got lied to by them on the forums and I was lied to via emails and via PM's and I received abusive messages and such from some of the Whites Cronies from their forum because of what I posted here and those messages could not be posted here,  some of their lies cost me a couple of thousand Dollars, Yes it's sad that Whites is closing down but the consolation is those people who lied to me and sent me abusive messages will no longer have a job in the detecting industry, Paybacks A ***** LOL

My heart goes out to all the factory workers who did their best to give us some of the best Detectors in history and I will always shake their hand with a certain amount of pride,

J.

I can still get stuff,  But I will call them tomorrow and see what they have in stock.

Cool, I hope it keeps going, It would be tragic to loose one of the pioneers of detecting.

5 minutes ago, Hunterjunk said:

My TRX's interfere a bit with my VLF detectors if i lay the detector to close while i dig . It's no big problem though . The machine that hates the TRX in my experience is the Surf P.I. , Sends mine bonkers up to a Metre away !

Yeah my TDI SL goes Ape when it gets within a metre from the Bullseyye II

11 minutes ago, Mike Hillis said:

Operating frequency of the White's TRX pin pointer is 12 kHz.....not 14 kHz.   It is excellent on small gold.   One of my favorite pin pointers.   It should not be allowed to die out.

It will cross talk with 12 kHz detectors like my Tesoro  Golden Sabre II.    Not so much with my 12 kHz Tesoro Compadre.   I don't have any trouble with TRX driven interference with any of my other detectors.  

HH
Mike

 

When I had issues with mine the store said it ran at 14khz So maybe mine had a fault. That's good to know thanks for that,

Well done mate, So how does it compare to the 5.3 in terms of sensitivity,

Was it on the MXT or the V3i when it picked up the minerals in your hand ?

Thanks for the info,

4 hours ago, Geotech said:

The TRX will typically detect under 1 grain, usually down to about 1/2 grain and gets coins at 3-4 inches. The Bullseye II is good down to 1 or 2 grains and coins to 1" or so. You may get lucky and find a Bullseye that will hit under a grain, or unlucky and find a TRX that will not.

On interference, luck also plays a vital role. Any model pinpointer is capable of interfering with any model detector. All detectors and pinpointers run at a frequency that has manufacturing variance, and it's the variance that makes one TRX interfere with one MXT, but not another. I specifically recall testing the TRX with several MXTs and saw no interference, but I knew then as now that wasn't a guaranteed outcome for everyone.

In an Ideal world that would be an impressive achievement but sadly does not match the results,

And another bad combination is the TDI/TDI SL and the Bullseye II, with the detector on the ground at a normal distance from where you happen to be down on ya knees digging a hole the Bullseye II cross talks like crazy and makes the TDI SL go nuts,

It is impossible for 2 radio frequencies that match or almost match not to suffer some form of interference when in close proximity  to each other, As you know the MXT operates at 13.889khz and the TRX operates at 14khz or what ever the exact frequency is, The MXT and the Bullseye II is a better combo to pair up.

44 minutes ago, GB_Amateur said:

Ok.  My concern isn't about the crosstalk (although I don't want to downplay that as I'm sure it's frustrating) but rather what you said later:

This is inconsistent with my TRX experiences.  (I don't have an MXT and although my pinpointers sometimes cause my ML Eqx 800 to chatter when the pinpointers are sounding off, I just live with it.)

I have wondered if the time-of-build of the TRX affects its performance.  Specifically I speculate the very early ones performed one way and later ones differently.  I think this is a not particularly uncommon occurrence with metal detectors -- either the early ones aren't quite right and user complaints lead to improvement on later units OR a detector is hot and the complaints lead the manufacturers to turn down the max gain/sensitivity or some other feature.  I know Steve H. (probably others, too) have talked about the latter on multiple occasions.

In my case, I own two although one needs repairs (pushbutton has worn out; hope I can still get that fixed...).  I bought a second one when the original (pink housing) started wearing out and never got a chance to test them side-by-side, but it did seem they acted differently.  (The second one is the dark gray body with orange cap -- I suspect it is an earlier build than the pinkie, but don't know for sure.)  Both of them are very good at their locating abilities, much better (in my experience) than the Garrett Carrot (which I also own).  What you describe has never happened to me.  (To be specific about this statement, the TRX has a more focused 'beam' straight off the tip whereas the Carrot has a broad, wide angle sensitive pattern.  The Carrot has its advantages when trying to find a tiny out-of-the-hole object or when the desired target turns out to be in the side of the hole as opposed to the center where you thought it should be.)

I recall a YouTube video where an air test is performed and I was never able to get my pink unit to detect coins as far from the tip as shown in that video.  (If someone cares I'll see if I can find it.)  I assume the video was taken with one of the early units.  Yes, I figured out how to up the gain on mine to the max and still couldn't reproduce what was shown in the video.

 

I just wrote a long reply answering your questions and my internet dropped out and I lost the lot,

But as for cross talk it can render things like pin pointers useless even more so with a High Gain machine like the MXT and because the TRX's frequency is close to what the MXT runs make the TRX a bad choice when it comes to detectors that run on either 13, 14, and 15khz, If you are using a high KHz detector then the problem will be minimum, but if you are using 13, 14,and 15Khz then you would be better off using the Bullseye II because it runs at 36khz and you will get zero cross talk Not only that the Bullseye II is more sensitive to tiny items and it will also work well with the higher frequency machines as well because their frequency is above that of which the Bullseyee II uses,

hope that helps.

44 minutes ago, GB_Amateur said:

You start out discussing the TRX-MXT crosstalk.  Is the latter part of this cut-and-paste ("if there is other junk in the hole the rotten thing won't shut....") also referring to specifically the cross talk issue?

 

No it's not cut and paste,  It's a fact,  when they cross talk the TRX makes a 13/14khz chatter and squeak and make pulsing noises in the same way if you and ya mate are using the same detector and you start getting too close to eachother,

IE, when the MXT 300 series came out they had a 12" concentric coil and they would pull coins from up to 16" deep in some soils but me and a mate were using two MXT's with that coil and I could hear him coming towards me from about 100m away, That coil and the MXT running the gain up high has some serious power and makes it impossible for you to work within 20 to 30m of each other. and the TRX upsets the MXT and vice versa,

47 minutes ago, phrunt said:

Well that explains why I kept reading the Whites pinpointer was great on tiny gold and I found it wasn't that good at all with my Garrett AT performing about the same if not better..... I have a TRX, I needed to get a Bullseye II.  I didn't know there was two! Bugger, I bought the wrong one 🙂  I even thought mine was either faulty or fake as it didn't meet my expectations.

 

The Bullseye II is nothing flash but they are built like a tank and not pretty, but they work.

What annoyed me was all the wild claims of the TRX being better with zero cross talk than the Bullseye II, But look at all the Gold VLF's, they run at 45, 48, 50, 56, 60 and 71khz so how on earth can a 14khz machine be more sensitive than a 36khz machine,

I don't need a pin pointer to pick up coins from 4 to 6 inches away in an Iron infested site I need it to keep it's power contained but also be sensitive to tiny targets,

25 minutes ago, phrunt said:

Well I personally hope someone buys out Whites or at least a few of their products.  The 24k needs to stay in the market place as it's up there with if not the best gold prosecuting VLF available.    The TRX is also regarded as one of the best pin pointers on the market. 

I got my fingers burnt over the TRX, My main VLF is the MXT All Pro and it runs at 13.889khz so I put the question up on their forum and asked if the TRX would cross talk with my MXT because the TRX runs at 14khz their new moderator told me no it would be fine and so did the rest I also asked the man in charge and he said no it won't cross talk and it would be fine, So I bought it and tried it and the flaming thing would not shut up, And yes it will detect coins well around the 4" mark but having a pin pointer do that is stupid because the Idea is to use it to zoom in on the target but if there is other junk in the hole the rotten thing won't shut up Plus the fact when it comes to finding tiny nuggets and stuff the older Bullseye II is a far better product and it way more sensitive to tiny targets because the Bullseye II runs at 36khz and the sensitivity is 100% variable and does not have 3 or 4 pre set steps like the TRX does,

So I went back to using the Bullseye II and gave the TRX away,  my Bullseye II can detect bits down to 0.03gm +/- which is more than enough, and is the closest thing you can get without buying one of those high kHz Falcon pin pointer, Yes the bullseye looks dated but it is the better one of the two, I wish they had put the bullseye II in to the TRX housing because it would of been the best pin pointer ever made, I once asked whites if they would do that but it fell on deaf ears, and the only thing they did do that I kept asking for was  the 6" round concentric for the GMT, I also asked them for a 6x10 Concentric for the GMT also because they are mega hot on the GMT and I only found that out by buying one of the older Goldmaster 6x10' concentrics for my GMT and it made it as hot as the 71khz GoldBug II.

But I am not sure if they ever made a concentric in 6x10 for the GMT, or if they made one for the GMT 24k,

4 minutes ago, phrunt said:

I had a look up what that was, a quick google revealed yours 🙂

Yeah it's a beautiful piece of kit and more horsepower than any VLF on the market, with a 9" coil it will easily do what a modern VLF will do with an 18" coil, It has some other smart tricks up it's sleeve to and it's balance is absolutely perfect even if t is a Chubby looking thing.

18 minutes ago, Geotech said:

If directed at me, I hold no grudges towards White's. As I've said, in 40 years of employment it was the funnest 6 years I've ever had. My first real detector was a 6000/D and I still use a V3. I always had hopes that someone would get things turned around before this happened and I wish it had been me.

I have an unused Blue Box 5900Di still in it's original box,  It has some serious Horsepower,

One of the most annoying things about it is that no one would listen, Back many moons ago when Fisher started making the F series machines people loved the light weight and balance of those machines and it was clear as to which way the designs needed to move, Then Garrett did it and then ML with the et-305 505 and 705, There was no reason why Whites could not of kept making the Black Box machines but they also needed to follow the new trend with the new light weight machines,

back around 2010 in a moment of madness I bought a little Fisher f4 and it was super light and powerful for such a cheap machine, my favourite was the F70 that had the knobs, but knowing how I am with machines I wouldn't of stop until I bought an F75,

I hope Whites rethink and regroup because their business model is not working and certain people need to Go and others need to wake up, Whites was a great successful company because they were hand in hand with the end user but 10+ years ago that all changed where they started to dictate to the end user and people Voted with their Dollars in their millions and companies like fisher Garrett Deus an Nokta welcomed peoples input and the Whites landslide began.

I think it would be good if people took a few deep breaths and counted to 10,  These are trying times, not just for Whites but for all of us one way or another,

There have been a lot of lost chances some good some bad, Personally I can't wait to get out and swing a coil again, Campers all but done and I am waiting to place a call to order a GMT 24k, I hope that Whites UK keep going because they have always been a delight to deal with, I am also looking forward to meeting up with an old friend or two and going to a few weekend rallies etc, maybe the odd end of day BBQ after the hunt,

Sounds good to me.

J.

With the GMT 24k and the QED would of helped a lot but they needed a good VLF and ditch the MXS because of it's past history plus the fact it looks like a Chinese knock off,

The VX3 would of made a good MXT Mk 2 if it had of had manual adjustments instead of pre sets and given it the MXT's Tracking system, To this Day the MXT's tracking system is a force to be reckoned with,  with these 3 machines whites would of had the machines to retain market sales but because they would not listen to those of us who knew over the MXS issues until after the damage was done Whites signed their own death warrant,

And all of their machines that have come out in the past 4 or 5 years have been built with a total lack of pride and inspiration or resemblance to what people were asking for and as sad as it is they deserve every thing that happens.

5 minutes ago, tboykin said:

I agree completely. I’m not an engineer (never was), just a hobbyist now. I might be competitive with them in arm wrestling or a foot race though.

”Trust me bro, it’s a cracking detector” should have been enough to ink a deal on the QED. I know it’s selling by the tens of thousands right now and this singular decision would have saved the company. Having that decision back I should have flown to Oz for a very specific demonstration where I had no control over the conditions, spending triple what simply purchasing the detector would have cost.

All I can do now is use my tears to wash all the gold I’ve found stateside with my Minelabs.

Sarcastic banter aside, you can’t pin White’s situation down to any one thing. Steve made a great point about the responsibility of owners to steer the ship. There are also market changes, demographic shifts, and worldwide events happening. New companies have quickly gained ground on established ones. Lots of factors, some that we probably don’t even recognize.

It is sad, but everything has its time. You. Me. Countries, businesses, religions. Nothing lasts forever.

Except gold.

Ya know Tom it was a pleasure to read that post,

J.

I still prefer the Metal Box Whites machines, I just looked on the US site and 6 of their detectors share the Treasure Mate/MXS body parts, and apart from the GMT 24k I would never buy any of them,  I would still buy the black box machines,

There is no info on the Whites web site about any closure,

2 minutes ago, Steve Herschbach said:

The White’s GMT came out in 2000. Two decades ago! Twenty years ago!!! Some new detectorists were not even born yet when it came out. This is technology. Electronics. Who still makes anything electronic just like it was made 20 years ago? Almost nobody. You may as well sign up for the “take your time to copy me, you have all the time you need” counterfeit volunteer list.

There are many reasons for innovating, and not being a sitting duck is one of them.

I had been detecting for a few year before I learned of you and then I saw the results you were getting so I started to buy the machines you used, Back then lucky for me it all panned out in my favour, I remember thinking "If it works for him it should more than do what I need" Luckily your reviews gave a person a good solid starting point which sort of gives a person a head start fast tracking them to becoming better sooner. A lot of success is down to the amount of hours a person is willing to put in, Back then I would detect 8,10,12 hours a day every day for months on end,

They also create their own reviews under multiple names so you can't trust any of their info or ratings.

Bottom line is this is all guess work regarding these fake machines and having been lied to by a few people at whites I find it impossible to believe or put stock in any thing they say, But from my direct treatment from them and seeing how they handled the MXS affair the only part I deem truthful in their statement is where they say they are shutting shop,

The sad part about it is the workers at the factory are going to loose their jobs because of what those who are higher up have done.

I think you are being too kind to them because those of us who have been detecting for quite a while know not to buy a 150 dollar GMT or a 400 dollar GPX 5000 and it is only a few that are new to the hobby that get caught out by buying fakes, Plus the fact that a lot of newbies come to forums and ask what detector they should buy and they are nearly always warned of buying cheap detectors on line and this happens on every forum at leased once or twice a week,

Baring in mind that most newbies are introduced to the hobby by someone with greater knowledge and the only people who will buy these cheap fakes are those who won't listen or those who go it alone, on average 95% users will only buy genuine machines through preferred dealers, Not once in all my years of detecting have I ever bought one fake item,,

White's current market position is down to not listening to those who knew better and not listening to customers wants and needs, Know it All's are their worst enemies, I tried to warn whites of the damage they were doing during the MXS wars but they would not listen and all I got was BS emails and insults in return and from that day onwards I never promoted another White's product and very rarely got involved in discussions of their products, Along with the lies I got told I have never bought another one of their products, There are a couple of other good solid American Detector companies that are more than welcome to my money who are more deserving as far as I am concerned,

I just found a new F-75 LTD for sale, think that's the way I am heading from now on.

18 minutes ago, Geotech said:

I keep wondering, who? I can say with confidence it ain't FTP. Minelab was interested 10-12 years ago, but I can't imagine they would still be interested now, they are so far beyond what White's has. Garrett now has the Apex platform to build off of, so not much there for them, either. Nokta/Makro? It would be a huge stretch for them to want a US manufacturing facility, and there is again not much IP that would interest them. I do know that a price I heard for selling the company 10 years ago was about 10X the real value, and I suspect that will be the case now. I will be surprised if there is a whole buy-out, I expect it will end in a big auction.

So has Howard left the company or is he still there ?

15 minutes ago, Geotech said:

This is 100% on Howard, not White's. I also tried to work with him but he was excessively obstinate. I told him his behavior was gonna get him sued by Minelab and there was no way I would risk putting White's in the middle of that mess. And I was right. So Howard had 2 opportunities to work a deal (and even avoid a lawsuit) that would have made him a small fortune.

You're feeling sorry for the wrong people. The family was very much the root of the problem. Lots of people tried to steer the company away from the rocks but with no success. I was still there at the start of the MX Sport, I argued against the mechanical design as being way too bulky but a big pod and 8AA batteries were must-haves, along with that "White's sound" (bonk-bonk). No, the people to feel sorry for are the employees, who were the best bunch of people I've ever worked with.

I remember when you left and that worried me back then being the start of something bad, I know you had to go but you were the last great thing about the company, And you were always there to help and answer dumb questions,  That said it's a good thing you left when you did and still play a major part in the hobby today,

I didn't know that about the family, I knew about the other person and his attitude along with a few other bits, I just don't get how those is power can not see the negative input their actions have on a company

J.

It's funny because most of us have never met and some of us are from all over the globe yet the opinions appear to be a mirror image of each other with similar comments being made and I hope they read this and take it all on board, I truly hope there is a last minute save for the company, I just don't want it to end like this.

J.