auminesweeper

Has anyone done anymore Testing on the Fors Gold In Hot Ground,

Thanks,, John

Yes but I think the Opal is fake.... U have never seen many

I have seen A Quite few Back home In OZ and I have found 1 or 2 out of the Ground, But I never took much notice of them, But I have seen A few Big Ones.

Still its A Nice find just the Same.

All metal works again!!!!!!!

I don't think your Missing Much Now,, That Opal would be worth A few Bucks, Might even be worth getting it re-mounted In Silver as A Gift for the Mrs,

It might soften the Blow when you forget The Honey Do List, lol

John

Well done Paul, It's working Good Now

Nice finds, You Got that running Real Good,

John

Sorry ... that page was not found.  

 

Does this mean you found nothing because we can't see it?

Same Here, I think we have the DISC set Too High, I'm Gonna Try Viewing It In All Metal,

John

Not discouraged.. I like trying to figure it out..

In my heart I think it will work good for me in this trashy arena I work/play in..

I

Also, I can't forget the beach hunting that I have available here in Truckee.

Well Paul That 705 and The SL sounds Like a Good sensible Set up, VLF for Trash and the SL for Hot Ground,

You Don't have to Sell Body Parts To Have A Good Kit, I went A Similar Route

Good Luck Mate,, john

Geeze, That's Big for 2.5 grams, Well done Chris, Nice Work.

On 1/26/2015 at 2:38 PM, Jonathan Porter said:

Manufacturers are afraid of negative feedback from customers complaining about noise so opt for the soft solution of providing DD coils only!! Case of not understanding what is required to be effective when searching for gold or worse trying to do too much at once.

If the GB II, an outdated design, can do it effectively and IMHO MUCH quieter than the GB PRO with its DD coil and lower FREQ, why can't the more modern offerings, especially with the benefit of reasonable auto tracking features, be able to do it? 

How bout giving me a GB II in a modern GB PRO housing with a concentric coil and Minelab auto ground tracking with three frequencies say 19Khz, 32Khz and 70Khz? 

JP

Maybe it would be a good Idea to supply machines with the Coil as per Customer Choice at the Time Of sale, This would save you having to buy an extra coil at the Time Of Purchase. and If A Person did want extra coils that's what the machine would come with Instead Of being stuck with a coil that you wont use.

The Companies will Listen to people Like You and Steve, but Convincing them is the Hard Part,

John

Thanks Tom Great Info Mate, I will try and Find One

Thanks Again,, John

I really want one of these Toys, Because the area I got mapped out the gold is that small 95% of detectors can see it.

Ok Well I Tested that 6X10 Longscan Concentric Coil On The GMT and it Hits My Tiny Test Piece at 3 X the distance that the Twin D Coil Does,

On Bigger Items there is not much in it with the Edge going to the Longscan by about half an Inch to an Inch so it will be less in the Ground.

But On This Tiny Piece In This Picture it is Lethal,.That Tiny Piece weighs less than 0.1 Grains and about 0.002 Grams,  

Hope this answers the Question about Concentric V's DD's, I think this set up would Knock the GB2 of the top spot If Not equal It, But One thing for sure I have never seen anything like it.

Notice the size of the Piece compared to the Pin And Match Head, And In The last picture is the same test piece next to a Grain of Sugar.

John.

.

On 6/11/2015 at 10:58 PM, Steve Herschbach said:

I am not a big fan of air tests. I have seen a detector easily out test another in the air, and in the ground have the results reverse. Air tests have uses but determining what works best in the ground is not one of those uses. You need ground for that. http://www.detectorprospector.com/forum/topic/528-using-air-tests-to-gauge-detector-performance/

Yes I agree, I relate them to, IF I can get 50% depth of an Air Test and Only Use it as A Guide, and the reason I use 50% is to Pick the Machine . Coil Combination that will give me the best Chance In the Ground, Like my mate using the first model MXT and the 12"/300 coil with the gain on 6.5 and he's pulling coins at a Measured 13 inches,

I use air test mainly for mapping The Detection field of coils and to see their sensitivity.

On 6/11/2015 at 10:28 PM, AussieMatt said:

With all the air testing that you do I was wondering if you have found that these results line up with your in situ finds, in particular those in nastier type ground.

Reason being is I have read of manufacturers claiming that their machines/coils may not air test well but will perform better on in situ targets. I have also read on a UK site - Garys Detecting I think - where they say that if a detector/coil performs badly in air tests that won't/can't improve in ground. They do however note that some detectors/coils can lose up to 30% performance from air testing to in ground results whereas a poorly performing air test machine/coil may not lose anything.

Just a thought as I always prefer to hear or see actual in situ finds/results rather than air tests. Would be interesting to see any direct correlation between the two - air test v actual finds?

That Part about testing better In the Ground than they do in Air Relates to a machine using the Halo effect to find the Coin,  A Classic example of this is Large pre decimal pennies they Leave a huge green stain in the soil and Silver coins it is a lot less, I once found a big bronze coin and it was down about 12"+ deep, I found it with a PI machine anyway when I carefully removed the big lump of soil from it I noticed that it had a very deep dark Green staining to it and I waved it over the coil it gave off a really loud signal, So I put the Dirt In a plastic bag and took it home a few months Later it had dried out from being in my Den, so I got it out and waved it in front of the Coil and Nothing Not A Sound, So I got a spray pot and sprayed it with water and Waved it in front of the Coil and sure enough it was making a loud signal Once again, So Does the Halo Theory Exist, YES.

With Gold and Silver That Halo effect Is Very Limited, Silver goes Black and Gold stays the same, Iron Breaks down to become a Mineral But before that happens it breaks down into small pieces and either effects the Ground Balance setting as Does fertilizer, Cow C$%P and Burning etc, machines like My Sovereign it makes it Null Out so the Machine becomes Blind until the Threshold Returns and coil has been 4 foot /120cm away before the Threshold returns,

Short Answer Is Only Metals Like Copper and Bronze with make the detector see deeper in the Ground because Of staining.

Hope This Helps

QUOTE BY STEVE-

I think John answered that already.

Using coils made by a manufacturer for the detector they made is pretty cheap insurance and not a bad idea in general. I usually do that myself unless there is a size I want the manufacturer does not make. Then I go after market.

In general though people have probably figured out I have no brand loyalties. I just try stuff out and use what works for me. You never know which company will produce tomorrow's gem, and the best companies make a turkey now and then.

Johns experience has made him quite down on Detech coils. Other people really love them. I have three (yes, I bought them) and as far as I can tell they are just coils. No better or worse than other coils I have used.

End Quote.

Yes that's True Steve,

But In all Fairness to Detech, Those Coils were bought just after their First Year 18 months of Production and that was about 7 or 8 years ago, So No doubt since then their Knowledge Base has grown Vastly and They Have moved on to bigger and better things now,

Would I Buy One Now ?? Only if I could Try A Demo One First, The More I see of them the More I Like them, But I still have that (What If) Nagging in the Back of my  Mind, And  I Still Really want them to be as good as I was Told they were So I can Have one again (They are Great At Keeping your Detector Up Right) (I hate it Falling Over).

The Thing with Whites Coils is they have always been Pretty Hot on small Items, But I think they Have been Tweaking them or their machines, because My New MXT All Pro with the 10" D2 coil picks up an 0.4 Grain or 0.03 gram  or just under test piece at just over an inch

I did ask Whites Via A PM privately, If they had Boosted the power of the GMT and the MXT because my New machine are Seriously A lot Hotter that the Last Pair I bought and they were very Impressive, But the answer I got was well we are always testing and doing research (Not Their Exact Words), So From that and the rest of the Message with what I see these 2 machines doing, Then I say yes,  

IE- In the Relic Mode the MXT will Bleep At my Hand between 1 and 2 Inches from the Coil and will make the 3rd Tone sound up to 6 Inches from the Coil, If you have either of these 2 machines try it and see if yours does the same, Please note that the GMT has always done that anyway, so just try it with the MXT. 

My Sovereign GT with 4 Different Coils I tested a Small Hammered Cut Half Penny and those coils air Tested between 5 & 1/4 inches to 7 & a 1/2 Inches,  MXT with the Standard 10" D2 Coil is almost Double that,

This is why I am trying to get people to Focus on the Reasons as to why they should use  Certain Coils as Required By The venue and Not by Reviewers or Dealers, And  Mates Swearing by them Does Not Mean that they are the Right Coil For your Personal Task.

I have watched Steve For A while and a lot of Info is Not so much what he says But what He does, And That Info he takes for Granted Because He Has been Detecting for Gold for a year or 2 and that Info is like an extra Limb or Second Nature to him, If you Keep going over his Stories ( I can't remember what they are Listed as) you will see all these little Gems of Info waiting to be discovered, 

And with My enquiring Mind I test everything so I get the Answers why such thing happen or have an effect, IE to map out your coils detection field, Lay the coil sideways with a large piece of paper under the coil and use different sized Lead shot stuck to a Ruler and with a pencil put dots on the paper where the coil stars to pick up the Target,

Any Coil will Pick up A Coin, But Not many can pick up lead shot and the smaller you can go the better the coil will pick up Large Items Like Coins.

Hope this Helps,  John    

Thanks John  and what coil do you recomend  gold prospecting. TDI-SL

 

Ivan

Their 9X5 Folded Mono  BLACK COIL and the 7.5X12 ?? RazorBack  (White Colored Coil)

And For A Bit More Depth Their 14" Mono, you have two choices there because they Make One Spoked and a Solid Version.

Here's the Link, http://razorbackcoils.webs.com/apps/webstore/

Hope This Helps,,  john

On 6/11/2015 at 7:15 PM, Ivansgarage said:

Hey Steve, what is your thoughts on this, I think he was saying to pretty much stick with the stock Whites coils, if I read that right. I was all ready planing on other coils for the TDI-SL.

http://forums.whiteselectronics.com/showthread.php?73748-The-Reason-I-Use-Whites-Products

Ivan

When It Comes to TDI Coils, Miner John/RazorBack  are about the Best So Far from what I have seen,

In them posts I was referring to Whites VLF Machines, Excluding the GMT because there are No After market Coil for it apart from the Ones Jimmy S has,

john

LINK IS NOT WORKING FOR ME RIGHT NOW.... I WILL CHECK IT LATER TONIGHT WHEN I GET CAUGHT UP AT WORK---THX

Which one Paul ?

I have Written a lot on coils I have tested and my next Novel, lol. will be Using the Concentrics on The GMT because there is a Bad lack of Coils Available For The GMT, So Now I have got the Coils sorted I will start testing them in the near future.

I use Concentric coils as much as possible and Only if the Ground Gets up around 75 on the MXTs Meter do I change to a DD, DD's have become more of a Crutch than A Tool, Mainly By companies using them to quieten down noisy Detectors, and one manufacturer Went all out to convince us we Need to have DD coils which is Absolute rubbish,

I used the 12"/300 coil on a field that had been gone over by every Metal Detector made since 1968 and I found 3 lots of Gold in one sweep of the coil and a silver pendant along with 8 Roman Coils and 1 Hammered Cut Half all from a Place that is so Iron infested that you can get 15 to 20 or more Iron signals per sweep,

The other Serious Issue is we all Crave More Depth from our Machines, So here is Part of what I wrote about Coils.

Enjoy, John

QUOTE:- ME.

Here are Some Coil Basic's Regarding Size to Shape and Configuration, As A Very Rough Guide of what should Be Possible, In Theory??, I say In Theory because I Do Not want anyone Shouting "FOUL" But I will Post some pretty Amazing Figures that Happened During Testing,

Most Concentrics will See Coin Sized Item at the equal Depth of their size, But It is Very Common for them to see Coin sized Target AT 1.5 X their Size, But The Average Depth with Concentric Coils Is More Like 1 and A 1/3 times their size,

So with the 12"/300 = 16" and with the 950/9.5 = 12.5 to 13" and the 5.3 (6") = 8 to 9" (10 inches is NOT Uncommon)

Now to Equal those Depths using a DD you will need A Much Larger Coil Because A DD will Find Coin Sized targets Equal to their Size and the Bigger DD coils go The More Sensitivity they Loose,

So if you use A 12x10 coil that has a possible Depth on coins at around 11", (Add the 12 to the 10 and Divide by 2).

And the Same with A 8x6 =14 Divide by 2 = 7 inches, the 15x12 has A Possible Depth of 13.5" and the 18x15" has A Possible Depth of around 16.5", Now In THEORY this all sounds Really Good But DD's Never Produce these Figures In The Ground Where As Concentric Coils Do Or Very Close to them Figures,

Now Compare the Concentric Figure's to those of the DD's and See How Much bigger A the DD Coil Needs to be to match Those of the Concentric. Not to Mention the Weight But Most of All the Cost,

We All Know that Air Tests are of Little Value but he's one I did with a Dealer Who Used another American made LTD model of detector he had fitted with the 18x15 Coil, He was so bent on Making my MXT 300 Look Stupid that he fired it up and set it flat out in the Shop that it was falsing that much, That it was Impossible to tell what was A Signal and what was EMI.

Anyway I Got A Large 50% Silver Coin from their Finds Tray and the Best that other machine could do was 18 to 21 inches, So then It was My Turn with My MXT 300 with the Factory 12" Coil, I tried it at the Pre Set (9.5 ish) and then turn it up to above 10 and when it started to False I backed it off just enough so it Behaved it's self, and the Distance it picked up that coin was 27" inches.

So when you Compare the Depths I have quoted and relate them to the Air Test In the REAL WORLD you can work out How much Bigger A DD has to be before it Equals Whites 12"/300 Coil, So to try and equal it you will need at Leased the 18x15 but we Know that Dog Don't Hunt, so the Next and Only Option is the 21x18" or an 18" Round DD.

Like I said earlier the 12"/300 Coil is about as Good as A Coil gets and you would need the 18" to match it and Only if the Mineralization is High will you see any Advantage with using the DD Coils Listed, But Whites also Make the 4x6 DD, 6x10 DD, 10" DD and The 15" MXT Max DD?? (Not Sure if that is A DD or Concentric)

Now to get anymore Depth you either Need A PI or remove the top layer of soil

The 12"/300 is A Lot easier to handle than the 18" DD and did/does come standard on some machines so no extra costs are involved,

Anyway, These are my Views based upon my Tests and having used such Coils, If your Soil is Reading up around the Early to Mid 70s then you are Bordering on DD Territory and then you need to ask your self whether if it would be A wise Investment, along with Do I Buy the Whites 2D 10" coil or A 12x10" But Here's the Clue, UNIFORMITY, END QUOTE.

If you wish to read the whole of my Ramblings you can find it Here,

http://forums.whiteselectronics.com/showthread.php?73748-The-Reason-I-Use-Whites-Products

Maybe good old US PO First Class Parcel is,the way to go. Only problem like I mentioned previously is you can't insure it. Perhaps the Customs and Excise folks who,handle male are less "agressive" than the ones,who handle parcel services like DHL, UPS, FedEx, etc.

Rick , They Sent it by USPS, Is that your Post Office, Is that who you used?? If So they Ebay Seller Has Just Shafted Me, For One it is a Smaller Package and Less Weight,

I have had to pay the 51.50 so it will be here tomorrow because I only have 20 days to pay it or they will send it back to the sender, So my only choice Is to Pay it and then Argue it out with Revenue and Customs,

john

I just can't believe things can get so out of hand, That's A $115 Bucks More, I am going to get on to customs and I have Whites On Speed Dial Over Here and I am On first Name Bases with them,

I would not mind, Customs has had this thing since the 5th = 6 days and they have not even checked up to see if it is a Taxable Item, So just because it looks Like New and Some Idiot Rubber Stamps It and I Get the Rough end of the Pineapple.

That's Fair,

50% duty? That's insane!

Yeah That's Just Crazy, Aye, Yet the One Rick Sent Me went off without a Hitch, And it got here in about 7 days too.

Still I gotta Laugh about It,  Thems are the Breaks,Aye.

John

Heres An Update On That Elusive 6X10 Long Scan Coil,

Well I just Received a Letter saying It's AT The Post Office and they wont deliver it Until I pay another $51.50,    

So That's $99.99 Bid Price, $63.50 Postage, Plus $51.50 Handling and Import Duty For A 25 year Old Coil Because it Looks Like New.

So That's $ 214.99  NICE

I feel Like A Government sex Toy, I am Sore In Places where Other Coils Can Not Reach.

I bought the thing on the 1st of June at I still have not got it,   %$£&ing Thing.

Note to Forum, Please Don't send me a GPX 5000 or I won't be able to sit down for a Month,

John

I know Dave J made my Two Most favorite Machines, But all I have heard over here Is How Many Circuit boards the F75 had had due to issues of some sort or another, That Holds me Back from buying any of Fishers Machines, I bought the F4 and the Locking Coller broke inside within the first week so I got another shaft which turned out to be the Wrong Color Gold So my machine looked like it was made up of spare parts, I love what Fisher Do, But I have no Faith in their products.

I'd love to Buy the F75 But I just Don't want the Disappointment that I had Last Time. and the Track record of that machines holds me Back,

john

Glad to hear it worked! Only drawback with USPS First Class Parcel(what I used to ship it to you)'is that you can't insure the package. Ok for a coil maybe, but for something which cost hundreds of $$$, maybe not.

I bet they will charge me Import Duty on the  6X10,

well that strange because they are charging me twice as much for UPS. 

Going to Post Office this AM to get price on shipping it.

Hey Rick It Got here about 09:30 ish GMT that was Fast, Yet I had to Pay 63.50 for that 6X10 postage with UPS and it was shipped on the 1st and UPS had it on the 2nd, GUESS WHAT and it is still not here,

NEWS FLASH its Cheaper and faster to use US MAIL when sending things over seas,

Thanks Rick Top Man, I am Over the Moon with That,

John