Gold Catcher

4 hours ago, phrunt said:

I guess what could explain what you're seeing is if with the 17' coil being larger they didn't need to do the semi spiral windings and were able to lay them out completely flat now as a full spiral coil not in layers on top of each other like the 11".  This would likely give the sensitivity increase that you're experiencing that allows it to somewhat keep up with the 11" coil.

Good point, this could indeed explain it. Would love to see that X-ray.

GC

It is totally ok to have different viewpoints on this topic. I enjoy the 6000 for what it is, and its automation does not bother me that much for what I use the detector for. I would like to know though how much of that "bad" automation really remains in manual mode, and whether it is the Geosense itself that does these "opaque" adjustments, or whether it is the Auto feature that does most of it when switched on. Either way, the 6k remains a fun, lightweight and ultrasensitive detector that does the job of finding small gold in shallow to medium depth ground better than any other detector I have ever used. Would I wish it had more options, like manual GB or volume adjustment (ala GPZ), of course. But then I also have the GPZ which I use equally often and that has all that, so I can choose which detector to use for what suits me best for the day. I remain of the opinion that the 17 inch retains much of the sensitivity of the 11 inch (perhaps 70-80%?), with roughly the same depth focus which is very unusual for this coil size. So, IMHO the focus of this coil is ground coverage but not so much depth. I remember JP (where is he?) reporting the same when he tested it. But I do realize that we all have different experiences with it, depending perhaps also on settings used, ground conditions and gold type. I am actually not often using the 17 inch as I prefer the smaller NF 12 x 7 as my to-go coil for areas where I use the 6000 the most. For bigger open ground I mostly use the GPZ anyhow. Back on topic though, the Axiom does appear to handle hot ground better, albeit some loss in sensitivity compared to the gpx. At least this is what I hear fairly often firsthand. To what extend this would be a game changer will depend on the individual user, but without a doubt the Axiom is the best non-ML detector out there with its own strengths and with features the 6000 clearly does not have, making it the more versatile of the two. Disclaimer, I don't own the Axiom, but this is the feedback I hear from operators who are using both.

GC

Running in manual will avoid the auto adjustments and you always remain in full control. I often run at full manual max and only go to auto if I run into issues, kind of as my first line of defense. Both NF and Coiltek coils run more stable at full gain than the mono stock coils.  The 17 inch is great for ground coverage albeit a bit unbalanced. But still practically no sensitivity loss compared to the 11, however only with marginal depth gain IMO. Overall, a great choice for most conditions. Re new gpz, this might take a while and I won't jump the gun with the first production series, given the track record of the 6000. So, at the earliest this would be late 2024 for me for the new gpz if it were to be released late this year. The axiom is tempting and i still consider getting it too.

GC

I think Steve summed it up nicely. You should have your answer, Mitchel.

GC

Great topic, Gerry, this one never gets old. VLF disc certainly has improved over the years, but you need to be very mindful of when and how to use it. Experienced detectorists like you know when to use it sucessfully. But many less experienced operators abuse it to an extent where they miss most if not all gold. The large gold specimens that you show are probably not representative of what most people usually find in the field when they go on their club claims, and small(er) gold in mineralized ground are mostly missed when using discrimination. Also, depth is detrimental to discrimination as I am sure you know. Countless times I have recoverd small gold nuggets that read as ferreous on the meter, in particular when encased in iron rich soil. So, IMO discrimination is generally not a good strategy, with exception of certain circumstances where it can come in handy. But it takes experience and knowledge to use it properly. But for more serious gold nugget hunting, in particular at the detecting edge, discrimination is totally useless, and this is the reason why none of the high end modern ML gold detectors even offer that feature. Witout a doubt you know all this, so I am speaking more to the newcomers who might not be familiar with the technical limitations of discrimination, in particular when gold nugget shooting.

GC

I briefly shake the scoop as it where a gold pan before leading it over the coil. Can make a big difference for small targets. For a small scoop and gold detecting that is.

GC

34 minutes ago, mn90403 said:

GC,

Good report.  I love those long vistas as well.  There is nothing quite like it when the moon comes up full and the sun sets about the same time.  

Finding is a bonus as they say but rewarding in a different way.

I've got a few thousand in repairs to the 4Runner to consider before I'm able to 4x4 again.  I can stay on the big roads and walk the 15 to some pounded places.

Mitchel

Thank you, Mitchel. You and I share the same passion for the desert landscape. Good luck with your 4runner repairs. I thought they would never break down....Looking forward catching up again. 

GC

30 minutes ago, glacialgold said:

Wait a hot hot second here, b/c I have questions...

Based upon your final pic, GC, you are able to wear headphones over a hoodie, top it off with a hat, and STILL have the headphones latch it all down???

This is a shocking development to witness. Per the assorted sets of factory-issued headphones (Garrett, Minelab, and Nokta) being marginally able to fit my big a$$ noggin...let alone extra head protection.

That said, my melon might just be too big, and YMMV accordingly. 

Cheers! 

Hi Glacialgold, yes I can do that when extending the muffs all the way down. I have no small head, but it works 🙂

GC

1 hour ago, phrunt said:

Nice report on your detector and coil, I'm so happy you went down the EMI fix path for your 6000 as you were very hesitant at the start, I just knew if you had it done you would notice the difference.

Thanks, Simon. And yes, I absolutely give you that. You were right, and I was hesitant and not quite believing. I think part of that was my fear to ship it off, considering how many packages I got lost. I did insure it on the way to the repair center, but the return was without insurance, just with a tracking number. Well, thank God it worked out and I am glad I did!

1 hour ago, phrunt said:

t's time to invest in new scales, a GPX user has no business using scales that can't give weights on small gold 😉

Yup, I guess I was a bit spoiled with my GPZ that usually only finds stuff that registers with double digits after the gram. Had I used the GPZ I might have only found the "bigger" one that day, which I am sure was just plain missed (including by me!!). 🙂 I mean I have of course found super small stuff with the GPZ as well, but not with the consistency of the 6k, that seems to find the small stuff all the time. You can of course ask the question (and some do) whether it is worthwhile to dig all that small stuff the 6k will find. In particular, because you can't often times tell by the signal response if something is tiny or bigger, since all sounds pretty loud. But on the other hand, I personally enjoy digging all gold, even that which won't register. But this is because I don't have to pay my bills from it. I think if you wanted to make the most efficient time/gold weight ratio then the 6k might not necessarily be your detector...The scale you ordered looks great. Did you get it on AMZ?

1 hour ago, phrunt said:

I wish the GPS mapping of the GPZ was super accurate with graphical photographic satellite mapping using google maps or something showing coverage, they now have GPS accuracy that can work down to a couple of inches and in some cases in millimeters so it is possible..

Totally agree, the GPS on the GPZ is not very accurate most of the times. I usually do the waypoint averaging on my Garmin GPSMAP 66i, then I transfer it to my Basecamp map. I have a "gold map" of the area I usually go to, but I wish I could make any sense of it as it all appears to be scattered without any predictability. But I am still hoping it will give me some cluses eventually.

GC

30 minutes ago, GB_Amateur said:

OK, I'm confused.  If it's not water that's the vehicle in desert alluvial fans, what is it?

River streams have a large body of water compared to the river bed (floor), so the moving mass is mostly water. In alluvial fans, you have a much higher ratio of solid matter that moves along with the water, hence the overall density that moves in these fans is much higher. This also results in heavier rocks (including gold) being pushed up as the mass is moving. This is what makes alluvial fans so attractive for prospecting, in particular at the Apex widening, because the heavier stuff moves up and not down. You can easily see that yourself when you walk up  alluvial fans and you notice that larger rocks and heavy material is often "floating" on top of lighter material and sand underneath. There is a lot of studies done about mass movements in alluvial fans, you can also find some of this on youtube.

Hope this helps.

GC

7 hours ago, Redz said:

I get tired of seeing this every couple of years. I have never known gold replenish except fly specs. I agree it is the 100 to 500 year flood when the water is 20-30 feet above normal that really has a chance of moving gold. The only real bonanza is removal of overburden making new areas accessible.

Could not agree more, usually rivers just replenish with fine flood gold, if any. Desert areas are more interesting and replenishing can be more plentiful and with more coarse gold down alluvial fans at the apex widening after strong floods. This has to do with the density of the material that is moving, and water alone (rivers) has the least density (1), hence mostly just flakes. Headding to the desert tomorrow. 🤪

GC

The 12x7 Xceed is a phenomenal coil. More stable than the stock 11 but equally sensitive, at least as judged from my first test runs. Air tests should generally be interpreted with caution. The ground processing algorithms will not work well with air tests and can lead to false interpretations when coils are being compared. Btw, kind of odd treshold sound.

GC

Still thinking of getting the 17x13. Thus far, I like the 12-Zsearch as it strives a great balance between weight, stability and depth. Re settings, no rules exist that fit all needs. I have areas where general/difficult hears nuggets that HY/normal does not. The best thing to do is to adjust settings based on the ground/environment conditions, rather than sticking to always the same. I have done this mistake before. This is part of using your machine effectively, and why I like the options the GPZ has to offer.

GC

I rarely use VLFs anymore, but if the conditions are right nothing beats the GB2. The problem is just that the conditions are mostly not right for it, at least not in my neck of the woods. The GB2 comes with a serious side effect though: The aweful screeching treshold has been burned into my brain after having used it for so long over years, and I am convinced that this will be the last thing my brain will hear on my death bed.

GC

Hi Lynk, the 9 inch coiltek runs smoother than the 11 stock, at least that has been my experience thus far. I also just got the NF 12x7, will make a comparison soon.

GC

I wonder how many people are there now....

GC

Weired 2023 thus far. Let's see how much gold wahed down the mountains when the season finally begins. Flash floods we had plenty of.

GC

The MPF timings of the SDC is well suited for shallow small gold in heavy mineralized hotrock grounds. IMO the 6k is not a replacement for the SDC and is less good in grounds where the SDC shines. The hotrock sensitivity of the 6k can be anoying at times. But the 6k is by far beating the SDC in most other circumstances. But the 6k is much less robust and sturdy. The SDC is for the rough and can take beatings without problem.

GC

19 hours ago, oneguy said:

I've said it before, here goes again.....  I did good with the 6 and it definitely will outshine the SDC overall. My ground isn't too bad for hot/cold rocks and my 6 never got the upgrade.  I could work around the little fits but it was annoying at times.  Aircraft overhead was my main bitch.  SDC just purrs right along all the time.  I also usually fall down at least once, usually more, per hunt and the last thing I worry about is if the SDC can take a "hit"....lol  Built like a tank and handles like one too....  one smooth and tuff mutha!!!!  jmo's   

30-40 days and I should be able to get out digging...!!!!!

I am with you oneguy. The SDC is for sure clunky and heavy for what it is, but it is a beast and made for tough. It's my ML companion for hikes into canyons and nothting else comes close to it. My hope is that they will release a new version soon, perhaps together with the 8000... Trying to save money now for a potential dual pack 🤠

GC

Excellent, Norvic. This is a great device. I am using the gpsmap 66i (now there is a newer 67i). It combines iridium sat 2 way communication with all the map features and basecamp compatibility that the explorer sereis did not have. Can't go wrong with Garmin, but the manuals are not good and alot you need to find out by trying/ intuition. The good news is that there are a lot of youtube reviews that explain in details, no need to read manuals 😁

GC

It comes down to PI vs ZVT technology. ZVT has several advantages that can't be met by any PI, doesn't matter who makes it or how advanced it may be (6000, Axiom, etc). A modernized ZVT with better/faster processing time combined with light(er) weight and coil options would do it for me. Oh yes, and please a better screen, not the 50c one they have on now.

GC

Nice job! That's a lot of trash for the San Domingo placers. It's always fun to hang out with Bill. I did the audio fix and have the Coiltek 9 round mounted on the 6k as my default coil. It is a great coil for tight areas and fairly stable. For more coverage I use the Z/12 NF (it's also my to go detector combo).

GC

I look at it differently. For deeper gold there is no discrimination, and for shallow gold the odds are mostly unfavorable. However, there are cases where it works reasonably well, i.e. on bedrock or shallow crevices. Sound check also does not work in most cases, and countless times I have recovered gold where I was almost certain it was iron trash. But again, everybody has a different style and the only thing that matters is the rattle in the pill box at the end of the day. At times, I use the boot scrape rule: if you can scrape the target away with the boot then don't bother. But for the most part I follow Jim's nuggetshooter bible mantra: dig it all!

GC

I think these are rather extreme examples. VLF discrimimation can work in certain cases but I dont think this will ever be achieved for any PI or ZVT at depth. Why not just stick with the Nox then and forget all the high end detectors? Did ML really just omit the discrimination on the 6000 because they want to keep it for a next gen gpz? 😁