Jeff McClendon

I don't mind the Apex audio quality or the length of the tones. I do mind it being stuck on 5 tones. When a simple non-ferrous low to mid conductor aluminum coins sized target at 4" deep is sounding off with all 5 tones......that gets old quick. A 1 or 2 tone option would make the Apex a lot more flexible in my opinion.

I love my Deus 2 but I recently sold my remote partly because I absolutely hated screwing on that charging connector and partly because I just don't need the full remote. The WS6 Master setup works good enough for me since I won't be doing any diving or submerged Deus 2 water hunting. I like that new charging cable as long as the pins don't break. Now maybe XP will also come out with a different coil charging clip.....PLEASE!

The OP and another poster started this topic with a direct comparison between the Garrett Apex and the XP Deus 2 on page one. I was going to stay out of it but I don't want unknowing prospective Apex buyers to get the wrong impression. I think the OP did a good job of making it clear later on that the Apex does have some issues in higher iron mineralization. For me it has nothing to do with elitism. I don't enjoy using detectors that don't perform well where I detect. I am too old to waste time wondering what a detector is trying to tell me in a simple park hunt situation on 4" deep or less targets. I don't care who made the detector. If that means I have to buy more expensive detectors because of soil mineralization levels then that doesn't make me an elitist. I am a longtime happy Garrett owner that just wants them to produce a better SMF VLF.

Andy and I both tried to make the Apex work in our western USA soil conditions. My experiences were very similar to Andy’s. I actually bought two different ones hoping that the first one was just a lemon. Lost money when I sold them. I didn’t unfairly dismiss or ignore the Apex. I really liked everything about it except for the way it detected here. I gave it an honest go. It just couldn’t handle the ground conditions that the Equinox, Legend, Deus 2 and Manticore handle easily. I also really hope that Garrett’s next SMF detector will be able to handle the ground conditions here a lot better than the Apex. I really like Garrett as a company, I like the Axiom a lot and would love to own and use an all terrain, fully competitive Garrett simultaneous multi frequency detector.

Anyone expecting the Legend to beat out the Manticore with both running maxed out sensitivity (if that is even possible) is going to be disappointed and also probably needs to really take a good dose of reality with their next aspirin dose. For me anyway, the Legend is an improvement on the Equinox 800 and matches or exceeds it at most locations aside from Midalake's saltwater beaches. Expecting anymore from it is just fantasy.

I have not found Beast Mode to be unstable. I don't find the Legend in general to be unstable either. It is well behaved for me as long as I do a noise cancel, properly ground balance it and don't go much over a sensitivity setting of 25 and if I make sure to take the target IDs for border line deep and for surface targets with the coil actually centered over the target. I can see Beast Mode being a very good tool for double checking areas where deeper relic and coin sized objects may be lurking as long as there aren't any buried utility lines in the same area. So, rural areas with open fields or woods with little to no infrastructure build up. I can easily see me or someone less experienced going after electrical, gas and water line/sprinkler systems using Beast Mode if they use it in the wrong area.

At least where I detect, the Legend if setup for the ground conditions can hit and identify 10" coin sized targets no matter what conductivity they are. Much deeper than that and the targets (similar to the Nox 600/800) start to sound like iron. The Deep Target feature just released in V1.14 may help with that. My Manticore will also tend towards iron in the higher iron mineralized dirt that I hunt in especially on lower and mid conductive coin sized targets at around 10". Anyone just getting 8" max using their Legend must be hunting with iron rejected and with the iron filter on the default 8 setting, one of the smaller coils and/or they have the worst dirt on the planet. There are lots of absolute newbies to detecting giving their opinions about the Legend on Facebook and even making YouTube videos. Some of what they are saying is leaking onto the forums. They obviously don't know much about detecting yet, especially deep target detecting and I disregard most of what they are claiming. I like the name for the Deep Target feature. For me it really helps to clean up the iron/not iron choice on 8 to 10" deep ferrous and non-ferrous targets if I keep the setting on 2. In testing on 8" test garden coin sized targets and on actual 8" deep wild targets it has worked great. So far, I have gotten more information and cleaner hits using it on those targets than the Manticore gives me in ATG All Metal using 5 tones, in places where I really need good information.

Diga gave a really good explanation for the iron filter/iron stability settings. The iron filter settings are like whole numbers and the iron stability settings are decimals like IF 1 and IS 4 is similar to a combined iron filter setting of 1.65 or so, etc.

I forgot to mention that V 1.09 and later work much better at saltwater beaches than the previous versions.

Iffy (Mike) and many posters are hung up on the target IDs produced by Beast mode and the strange tones. Nokta has repeatedly said and demonstrated in their demo video that the target IDs provided by Beast mode will often not be accurate at all. The audio used in Beast mode sounds similar to the VCO audio heard in pinpoint mode with the possibility of 2 tone VCO if enough iron response filtering is used. At this point from my experience with Beast mode AFTER seeing, accepting and doing the operational procedures recommended in Nokta’s demo video, I am using Beast mode as a 2 tone beep/dig mode for extreme situations almost like an extreme depth non-motion pinpoint mode. The Deep Target feature is the “beastly” feature that I will be using the most from the 1.14 Beta versions.

I have an Accupoint and I like how it pairs with the Legend, I want maximum depth, I like the semi live threshold in the latest Goldfield mode, I use the mineralization meter a lot, I adjust the iron filter, iron stability and bottle cap filters a lot, I like the adjustable audio gain feature on every mode, I really like the new deep target feature, I will probably not use M3 or Beast mode very much but who knows? I will be updating to the latest non-beta version when it’s released. I can’t recommend any version before 1.09 since the features I mentioned aren’t included in those earlier versions.

I am just scratching the surface as far as learning the Manticore, especially as far as how to work with the upper and lower ferrous limits and what the 2D screen is capable of. Since January 2024, I am at 34 US silver coins, 8 silver rings and 3 gold rings. All were found in public parks that I thought were on the verge of being hunted out by me and others using the Equinox 600/800 and were at least 7” deep in tough iron mineralized dirt.

Palzynski and I are both former Ace Apex owners. We both had some legitimate problems with our purchases that had to be addressed by Garrett. I really like the Ace Apex. It is one detector that I miss owning because of its excellent display and controls layout. That display and controls layout are one reason that I really like my Garrett Axiom. Another reason is that my Axiom works really well at all of the sites that I have used it. I just can't say that for the Apex. There are many detectors that simply don't fit the ground conditions that I most often hunt in and the Apex is one of them. The same goes for the Minelab Vanquish models and even the Equinox 700, 900, CTX 3030, Etrac and the earlier White's SMF detectors along with every single frequency VLF that I have ever owned. So all of this is just to say that sometimes its the operator, sometimes its the detector, sometimes its the quality of the location but all of the time, ground conditions rule over all three and the detector I'm using has to be able to first and foremost handle the ground conditions.

After owning and loving 5 Equinox 600/800s, I thought I just couldn't survive without one. Now I own the Legend and Manticore. I simply do not miss my Equinox 600/800s at all. I don't even think about buying another Equinox or have the slightest bit of seller's remorse. The Legend and Manticore easily out perform the Equinox 600/800 where I detect the most and I don't have to worry about leaking and build quality either.

I also have Deus 2 WS6. I can fully understand why you say you want something more easy to use and relaxing. I personally like the WS6 Master setup very much for specific types of hunting. I do not like that setup as much for hunts where I need to make settings or mode changes during the hunt or for using the pinpoint function or actually easily seeing the screen's ferrous/non ferrous meter which I use both for conductivity and depth of the target. If I am at a site where I need to switch from for example the Sensitive program to the Mono program for target interrogation........that is a lot of button pushes and unlike the Deus 2 full remote, I can't save those two programs next to each other if I choose to. As long as I can basically put the WS6 in my pocket, it's fantastic. I own a Legend and have also owned an F75 original, LTD and T2. The way the Legend feels on my arm reminds me of those detectors especially the newer Legends with the LG30 coil and full carbon fiber shafts. The Legend is not hard to setup for basic detecting. Most of the necessary controls like discrimination pattern, sensitivity, frequency choices, ground balancing and pinpoint function are done with the buttons on the control unit with no hidden menus. The only settings changes that need to be used often are the noise cancel function, recovery speed and iron filtering which have to be done from the settings menu which does have two levels to navigate. The only default setting that generally needs to be changed by anyone doing some serious detecting in iron infested areas is the default iron filter setting which needs to be lowered. It is easy to do with a little practice. The Ferro Check feature on the Legend is really outstanding and so is its recovery speed options, quality of the audio tones and tone pitch/tone break options. The Legend is definitely easier to use in rain or submerged than the F75 or Deus 2 WS6. The Legend being online updatable is really fantastic and Nokta have definitely made it better and better. The F75s and T2s that I have used here in the western USA have had trouble with urban and suburban EMI in recent years. They do have small frequency shifts and added shielding for EMI mitigation, but they were unusable at several places that I like to hunt. The Legend also has small frequency shift noise cancellation along with M1, M2, M3, and 4, 10, 15, 20 and 40 kHz to choose from. If I run into any issues with EMI, one of those frequency options usually keeps me detecting. I have taken the Legend to all of the sites that made me put the F75 and T2 back in my car since EMI was killing them. The Legend has handled those sites with no issues. There are two other options that you haven't mentioned. You could just buy the full Deus 2 remote and add it to your WS6. That is more than $400 US however. You could buy a Nokta Double Score. It does not come with wireless headphones, there is no Ferro Check and it only has M1, M2, M3 and 15 kHz along with having a few other less features than the Legend. Good luck with your decision.

That is a fantastic price for the Manticore. Anyone who has been on the fence about the Manticore needs to get off that fence and do it.

I was just testing MBe mode.

I am going to guess that performing both ground balances creates a ground balance "window". This dual ground balancing when it wasn't necessary was causing me to not be able to detect some targets that the Legend should have detected in Beast Mode. To prove that, I did a little testing earlier today with a US half dime at 7" depth. Previously Beast mode missed that target when doing both ground balances. Today just doing a "normal" ground grab after going into Beast Mode, the US half dime was easy to detect. Park M1 in the A discrimination pattern struggled to hit that same target and just had faint ferrous responses.

Thank You Dilek, the engineers and field testers and Nokta. That was an outstanding set of videos. They answered two big questions for me. 1. Do I need to do a ground balance in Beast Mode using the normal ground grab procedure? Yes, especially where I detect since without one my Legend just howls if I even move it a couple of inches left, right up or down. After doing a normal ground grab, my Legend in Beast Mode was very quiet. 2. When do I need to use the second ground balance for MBe? Since the soil I hunt in has high iron mineralization I assumed I needed to do the second ground balance and I found that to be very tedious. So, no I don't need to do the second ground balance unless I am experiencing actual detectable as targets hot rocks and/or changeable ground conditions that can be detected as targets. I was able to try MBe at a site with very little EMI but with high iron mineralization. I used my Manticore to find 6 wild borderline targets that could be a rusted nail or a US high conductor coin like a wheat penny, copper memorial penny, clad dime or silver dime. All of these targets sounded very iffy using the Manticore but I would have recovered them if possible. I flagged those targets. They all seemed to be at least 7" deep judging from the Manticore's depth readings and from the less intense lower tone when pinpointing those targets with the Manticore's pinpoint function. I was using the Manticore in All Terrain General with its preset upper and lower iron limits, All Metals accepted, recovery speed 5, 5 tones, Normal audio, sensitivity 24. I got out my Legend and had it setup for Park M1, A discrimination pattern sensitivity 24, recovery speed 5, iron filter 1, iron stability 4, bottle cap 0, 6 tones with tone breaks at 10, 20, 29, 43 and 50. I also had Beast Mode setup with the A discrimination pattern, sensitivity 24, recovery speed 5, iron reject 0. I went over each flagged target using Park M1 as setup. All 6 targets gave very faint to no response with the responses being mostly iron responses and target IDs of 1 to 4 or 59/60. These responses were much more iffy and tending towards iron than the Manticore's. The targets were also a bit difficult to pinpoint using the Legends pinpoint function, meaning that getting all of the pinpoint graph bars to fill up was hard to do which usually means the target is iron from experience. Using the Beast Mode as setup, all 6 targets were very easy to isolate with distinct high tones with iron reject on 0. Adjusting iron reject to 2 helped to determine which targets were probably iron and which were not. Target IDs were 1 to 4 on these targets with the occasional 55 to 60. Much like the demonstration video, targets that had a non ferrous response and target ID of 2 that were actually iron, had ferrous responses when I turned up the iron reject setting to 2. Those iron targets still had a target ID of 2. So, as Nokta has repeatedly said, do not depend on the target IDs when using Beast Mode. The Legend in Beast mode correctly identified all 6 targets as far as ferrous or non-ferrous. 4 targets were rusted nails in the 8 to 10" depth range and 2 targets were US wheat pennies again in the 8 to 10" range. Well done Nokta!!!!

I haven’t bothered to even test it since realistically I never user Disc IAR above setting 1. I guess I should find out but like you said, yours doesn’t show this “bug” and all of 2 people have commented on his YouTube video about it and on other forums, there is very little traffic about this “bug”.

I don't want to go off on a detour. I will just say that using Goldfield for hunting micro gold jewelry will work but if there is a lot of modern aluminum trash in the same area, it may be very frustrating since Goldfield only has 1 tone VCO audio.

Just use the Gold Prospecting mode in Multi M on the Legend for small gold nugget prospecting. It works really well. Lower the sensitivity to just below where the Legend with the smallest available coil runs a tad noisy, lower the iron filter setting to as low as possible (0 or 1), set the recovery speed between 3 and 6, run threshold anywhere you like or can stand as long as its above 0 and don't notch anything and ground balance when needed. No Boost or Beast mode that Nokta has put on its detectors was really for smaller targets less than 0.5 grams or so. In more mineralized ground, the Boost mode on the Gold Kruzer just boosted the ground noise.......

The iron filter saga is complicated. I'll just say we are lucky that it's adjustable. The default setting is for total Legend beginners or for total newbies to detecting hunting for 6" deep or less targets who don't want to dig any iron. Couple that high default 8 setting with all iron targets rejected and you get the picture. Even running the G discrimination pattern will put a damper on deeper, fringe of detection targets. That default 8 setting or anything much above 2 will simply make deeper, very challenged non ferrous coin sized targets detect like iron targets or just be completely masked in iron mineralization. I guess they were taking their cue from the Equinox 600/800 which has a default iron bias setting of 2/6 in its Beach modes and even has a default iron bias setting of 6 on the 800 in both Gold modes........totally ridiculous.

WS5 works with Deus 1. They don’t work with Deus 2 WSAll-XL works with Deus 2. They don’t work with Deus 1.

Gigmaster owned 5 Equinox 800s. All were used in saltwater and all 5 leaked. He tried Deus 2 for a while. Now he exclusively uses his Legends. No leaks and no other significant issues.