midalake
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Posts posted by midalake
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On 1/12/2024 at 3:12 PM, EL NINO77 said:
Midalake, thank you for the comparison... I have one question... if you switch from horseshoe mode to discrimination mode on the EQ 800 when checking the target... you will be able to improve the VDI identification of the target... - even if at the price of, for example, a less smooth audio signal... ?
So in the picture is six targets from yesterday I did a reverse discrimination on. All nonferrous and were found in the Horseshoe mode on. All of the targets were giving negative numbers with a mixed positive number every once in a while. Due to their smooth single beep hits, I suspected these were nonferrous.
When switching back to discrimination, all of the target responses were muted and broken with choppy sounds. Out of all of these it was my opinion that the small silver ring would have been the only target I may have dug if working only in Discrimination mode. The signals on the other targets were not repeatable and sounded like mineralization response.
I have experienced this many times in the past. The Horseshoe Mode ALWAYS makes targets stand out more with better depth. At least on a mineralized beach running Beach2.
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18 hours ago, JCR said:
Is there a setting on the D2 or Manticore that will influence the Target response in relation to the TID scale? Magnetic Ground or Frequency addition modes?
The only saving grace on the D2 in magnetic ground is the ability to still throw a correct number. The target may sound like crap but that D2 is giving you a number that you have to dig. Target sound wise, the D2 struggles with mineralization. This has been my exact issue. Do not own a Manticore.
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Awesome find and ring count!!! Keep it going!!
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30 minutes ago, Chase Goldman said:
What adjustments, if any, have you made from the default settings for audio (PCM, Square, High Square), the Audio Filter, tones (full, multi (2 through 5 tones), pitch , and salt sensitivity? You run Nox in horseshoe mode, do you run D2 in 0 or negative disc?
Running all two-tone Square programs with the Iron tone lowered to 350Hz and the second tone raised to 640Hz.
No Audio filter, 22 discrimination, Salt Sense 7, Reactivity 0.5,
I have tried many disc settings from full negative -6.4 to now 22. I do want to experiment with notching.
Beach Pitch program [program 13?] is 100% out for me. Do not like that program. Serious Iron wrap-around problems.
I am willing to try anything to help deep non-ferrous targets sound rounder and more whole. Not Bite-y and clipped.
When working in heavy black sand I notice a general up-scaling of Ferrous targets and down scaling of non-ferrous targets. Seems like I get many more ferrous targets that want to break into the second tone and throw good ID numbers in black sand.
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54 minutes ago, Compass said:
I love the audio options on the Manticore and after limited use in the black sand I much prefer it over the 800. I was considering the D2 but posts like yours make me think that it wouldn't be the right detector for me.
The D2 really does work well without the Black Sand. My beach really undergoes changes during the year. I am sure that D2 will be back out by the end of Feb. We have had the Manticore here with good results but in less black sand conditions.
In the coming months we will have both the Equinox 900 and Manticore back here.
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On 1/11/2024 at 12:49 PM, okara gold said:
This is a picture of the inside and outside of my scoop that I have a magnet attached to and is covered in black sand after just a few target digs. This was with the Nox 800.
Yup!!! Been there!
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1 minute ago, EL NINO77 said:
if you switch from horseshoe to discrimination on the EQ 800 when checking the target... you will be able to improve the VDI identification of the target... - even if at the price of, for example, a less smooth audio signal... ?
I have not switched back out of Horseshoe for years. I find the response in Horseshoe to be crisp and rounded. I will experiment on some deep nonferrous targets next time out. I doubt it will produce a better TID number....but who knows? Will report back. 😎
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On 1/7/2024 at 8:07 AM, Sinclair said:
I sometimes experience the opposite:
Crappy sounding signals turn out to be good ones more often with the D2, than with the Nox. I‘m still often unsure, if to dig or not.No, I agree with you....as compared to others.
I find the D2 ear exhausting, both in how it handles Black Sand and in deciphering targets. The clipped and bite-y sounding nonferrous targets at depth are a real PIA.
Comparison here: https://www.detectorprospector.com/topic/25058-mf-machines-on-mineralized-black-sand-salt-beach-d2-and-equinox-long/#comment-264086
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Picture: In center is a cracked face of a very small gold ring [square]. Rang in a 3 on the Equinox! Pretty impressive.
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At times of the year, I really struggle with Black Sand in my location. This year was no different. I have done more comprehensive testing on updated machines. On many days I hunted half days on each machine so I could tell differences in same conditions. [thanks to my wife delivering machines] I want to outline a few general recommendations:
1. Slow Down, 2. Use Tracking GB, 3. Sensitivity set so you hear just slight Black Sand interference. 4. Look at your fringe targets with a couple more points of sensitivity. 5. Don't trust your machine is working well with moving water, wave wash. [do checks].
D2> So much to unpack here. First, the D2 is a tale of two machines. One [the devil] in Black Sand, the other, [the angel] in non-Black Sand.
The positives> Light to hunt. Fair separation of iron from non-ferrous. Good separation of targets. Good at noise canceling.
The negatives. Noisy. The Menu. Clipped target sounds at depth for non-ferrous. Moving water takes D2 out at any depth. Must look at many targets from Mutiple directions[time consuming] .
Equinox 800> Not much to unpack.
The Positives> Better Black Sand handling. The Menu. Good separation but under the D2. GOOD sounding targets [not clipped]. MUCH better target sounds at depth. Better and faster deciding iron from non-ferrous. Works with moving water unless target is deep.
The Negatives> Lousy noise cancel. Heavier to hunt with. Waterproof issues. Sometimes loss of targets in the hole.
Hunting summary> For about a week I hunted the D2 exclusively, I really wanted to get a gold chain hunting in Beach Sensitive [which I think is better than Equinox Beach 2.] [no gold chain] Then had the Equinox out a few times. Then updated the D2, and started hunting both machines daily.
Every day I started with the D2 and switched to the Equinox. There was not ONE DAY that I wanted the D2 to remain with me. I find the D2 ear exhausting, both in how it handles Black Sand and in deciphering targets. The clipped and bite-y sounding nonferrous targets at depth are a real PIA. The range of pull-tab numbers are ridiculous. Tough to make headway with the interrogation needed on some targets. Not much difference in hunting with a max frequency of 24 or 40. Maybe 1-point sensitivity lower with 40. ANY moving water would completely wipeout the detection field of the D2 in both Beach and Beach sensitive. At best I could only pull a 91-sensitivity setting, but most detecting was done at 87-89.The Equinox> So MUCH better on handling Black Sand. Most hunting was done at 21 even with water contact. Detection field works in moving water but not on targets of depth. With the Horseshoe mode on telling the difference between Ferrous and nonferrous is MUCH easier and quicker. The unmistakable double ring of iron is clear and smooth. Target investigation time is cut down.
I don't think there is a winner in the small bit category. Both machines seem to find small bits well. While I did not do any head-to-head burying of targets. Both machines seem to have their moments of man that was shallower than I thought and also the holy crap, that was deep moment.
NOT trying to make this a one is better than another, your conditions may provide different results. If you have compared other machines to the ones I have PLEASE post! I will answer all questions of settings or conditions or ???
In the picture: ALL of the larger jewelry was found with the Equinox yesterday. Only a few small bits with the D2. This has been a bit of a trend. I give the nod to the Equinox's ability to tell ferrous from non-ferrous at depth. Most of this jewelry was deep with negative numbers but had clean one beep hits. My D2 will be in the closet until the black sand subsides.
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1 hour ago, F350Platinum said:
Great report, I find the same thing going on so I bump bottle caps setting to 3, makes most but for the hardest forged and curved nails go full iron on a turn. I still get a few, the fields are loaded with shoe nails from animals and old houses. If I'm really in the thick of it I'll go to 5,
Thanks for the tip!!! I will definitely try that when I think there is a nail. I was so focused trying the different programs. I set two programs each in Beach and Beach Sensitive with Max frequencies of 24 and 40. Checking fringe targets between 4 programs can be a beast.
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7 minutes ago, abenson said:
Hold down the up arrow button (upper right) for 2 seconds and it does an automatic noise cancel.
Ya, YouTube taught me that when I got back to the condo. 🙄 The D2 is not very button user friendly. Especially with sausage fingers in gloves.
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1 hour ago, 619_805_okie said:
I doubt I'll ever have a streak like that again but it was fun. In all i had 5 additional rings, 2 silver and 3 junkers. Also got around 15 silver dimes, one silver quarter, a clad half dollar, and around 200 clad coins,
Outstanding!!!! Great hunt!!!
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Also>>> XP should be ashamed of themselves for making noise cancel so hard to find. I had no clue how to find it and did not do it all day in this test. Thanks for the chitty button controls XP.
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19 minutes ago, Lodge Scent said:
I got the feeling that V2.0 was a bit more sensitive and a bit more reliable in tone and in visual ID. Time will tell.
Yes. On a salt beach it is.
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The Bad:
While Iron up-scaling appeared to be in a better place there was one standout.
Large Old Nails.
I NEVER have dug one of these in two years of hunting with the D2 here. Today I started getting wrap-around targets that registered 80-86. This mimics my 10-peso coin, which comes in around 82 . After some trial and error, it was possible to hear Iron blanking on a 360 look and some elongation as compared to a coin object. But was much more difficult on deeper nails.This might take some ear training that I did not have to worry about before.
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The good>>>
Found more old pesos today than the last four put together. Same beach sites. I could tell the depth difference right away. Nonferrous targets just sounded better on the whole scale. Less chirpy, and good on 360 looks.
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I am probably going to rant but will try to get all the information out. Been using .71, since inception and now just changed to 2.0.
Summary: I was really impressed with the overall difference between the two operating systems. Beach and Beach Sensitive used with 9"coil. Will provide all my settings if you want.
With 2.0
1. Better handling of Black Sand mineralization.
2. More punch power, with better TID's
3. Better TID at depth.
4. Not as much Iron up-scaling [but a caveat]
5. WAY---WAY easier on the ears with mineralization noise. Identical sensitivity and the ability to hunt one or two-points higher sensitivity.
6. Good job of still blanking bi-metal coins.I started right away with positive results. VERY deep coins that were reading strong in volume and TID. Noticed good iron blanking and Black Sand disruption was more muted on the ears. Meaning easier to pick out targets from ground noise.
Today's take, with trash:
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11 hours ago, Skull diver said:
It was a big submerged spot and if I consider 40kHz/92+ sens/b.s. accept and auto G.b. it is more than acceptable.
That would be VERY acceptable. But I find it difficult to run with a sensitivity of 86. Lots of ear fatigue even at that level.
1 hour ago, Rattlehead said:I'd be interested in seeing that comparison as well. When 1.0 came out, I updated, tried it a few times, got frustrated and went back to what I'm familiar with in .71. I may give 2.0 a shot, since .71 will may become unavailable in the near future.
I will have 2.0 out today and will compare to .71. I have been running .71 for a week straight, so am up to speed. Going to set identical programs I was running in .71.
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14 hours ago, ColonelDan said:
As I followed reports by some very respected detectorists I know, I saw more of a potential upside than I originally thought. So, I installed V2.0 on my #2 Deus and took it to Cocoa Beach today for a short test run and I wasn’t disappointed
I am going to be finding out shortly. Does anyone know if V2.0 handles mineralization better? Especially black sand?
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52 minutes ago, Chase Goldman said:
The final back and forth really didn't really help shed any additional light on the OP's question. There are undoubtedly changes that are not necessarily being documented, but debating the nature and extent of those known unknowns is non-productive. It should be sufficient for people to simply relate their experiences post update and not unreasonable to connect new behavior to the update.
Most likely zero help. But in mineralization [black sand and salt] I get swing chirps when moving the coil more aggressively, at the stop on each end.
I have not updated yet. But when I do the update tomorrow, I will look at these swing chirps. Maybe the OP has mineralization?
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4 minutes ago, schoolofhardNox said:
Look, this has morphed into something it was not supposed to be. I think the OP has all the information that he needs about PI's to make his decision. If I had the power to close this post, I would do it
Yup. 😎
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23 hours ago, Steve Herschbach said:
Guilty as charged. And I’ll admit I find your statement even more absurd. But I’m just an ignorant old schooler so what would I know.
Gosh Steve, I am not a name names kind of guy. But there is more than one old schooler that owns a forum website. You are NOT the person I am referring too. I don't write books, nor do vids.......😎
I am VERY old school myself, but still keep my ears open and try stuff.
23 hours ago, Steve Herschbach said:Nickel, ring, brass casing, silver dollar, it does not matter. In extreme ground any VLF including a SMF falls on its face. Just because people have not experienced it they think it’s not true and won’t listen to people who know better.
Well yes! SMF can and does fall on its face in Black Sand. But we can discuss some ways for SMF to cut it better. There are ways, and some do it better than others.
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8 hours ago, schoolofhardNox said:
There is something inherently wrong with MF when it comes to certain beach conditions and that is being experienced in other videos as well. A lot of people try and protect Minelab, but the evidence is out there. Trying to somehow say that the video posted was not the best test is absurd.
I am fighting through Black Sand conditions right now that might be close to that. I don't like that the poster did not show his settings. So easy to change the limits on a Manticore to notch a nickel. I was planning to start a full Black Sand discussion here and will, but I need a few more days of comparing machines and different modes.
I know there are some old school people that will tell you to test a nickel when looking for gold. There is even one of these old schoolers that own their forum. Testing today's MF machines on nickels and saying it is comparable to gold is the most absurd thing in the metal detecting community today. Hopefully I can get this discussion going after the weekend.
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Mf Machines On Mineralized Black Sand Salt Beach. Update 4/8 Legend, Manticore, Nox 900.
in Metal Detector Advice & Comparisons
Posted
Are these your tests? I am not familiar with any of the land programs. To me both tests seem similar. It would be nice to see this test done in Beach2. I can tell you my Black Sand is not that bad.
In my real-life conditions here running Beach2, I NEVER see discrimination mode coming close to what Horseshoe mode can do. In fact, I would never be able to run a land program here with the salt and black sand.