Chase Goldman

4 hours ago, midalake said:

Not trying to be argumentative here. However, this Vid you posted in fact shows the Deus 2 NOT being a good tonal machine. 

I refer back to the 8-minute mark of this Vid where the user is unsure of what is in the ground and is trying to get the machine to throw him a number. No person could dig that target with any confidence because of the ratty, bitey, broken tone it was giving!  

The user is unable to confirm the target on tone alone. I KNOW, as 1000's of deep targets I have looked at sound identical FERROUS and non-ferrous.

This absolutely the wrong video to use to draw conclusions as to whether the Deus 2 is a good tone ID machine because the machine is set up in PITCH tones (as evidenced by the the text overlays of machine settings and the actual audio).

Other than readily distinguishing between ferrous/non-ferrous targets based on the disc setting and use of iron volume, PITCH provides basically NO target tone ID information other than audible target signal strength (and overload) and some nuanced tonal information (based on perceived tonal harmonic distortion) regarding the symmetry of the target shape (useful for differentiating face-on round targets such as coins, undamaged tabs, freshness seals, and rings vs. canslaw, aluminum tent stakes, and (unfortunately) chains.  PITCH audio excels primarily as an effective way to “alert” the detectorist to the presence of a non-ferrous target (or conversely ferrous target if that is the objective) while swinging away because it is very reactive to tiny or deep non-ferrous targets vs. multi tones which are less dynamic in that regard.  However, it requires the detectorist to heavily rely on visual target ID or switching to a multi-tone or full tone mode for target interrogation for more precise target identification.  Bottom line is that pitch audio makes it slightly less likely you will walk over a target without hearing it but it is also slightly less effective at facilitating efficient/timely target recovery because of the reliance on visual TID/target interrogation to make a dig decision.  PITCH is tailor made for those digging all non-ferrous regardless of ID and especially if combined with utilizing the visual ferrous/non-ferrous target indication on the horseshoe display.

To really draw a conclusion regarding Deus 2 as a tone machine, one needs to see a demonstration of the Deus 2 in multi-tones or Full tones to determine whether you get a “good” high or mid tone at depth with either the absence of a target ID or down-averaged ID due to co-located ferrous.  That’s not featured in this video nor was it the objective of the video as the focus was on mode settings impacts to visual target ID.

In my experience, D2 is a great tone machine if you have the audio set up for other than pitch tone (though I consider full tones to be weak on the D2 vs. the D1).  The other thing I’ve noticed about visual TID on D2 is that it is pretty rock solid and you rarely are in a situation where you are hearing just a tone without a target ID or indication on the horseshoe display to facilitate the dig decision.  Although this video demonstrates how wet salt sand with perhaps the influence black sand can impact target ID accuracy based on mode.  Proper setup of disc with Iron volume and utilizing the horseshoe display and Mineralization meter can also help provide clues as to whether the target IDs for a non-ferrous target are being down-averaged as a result of co-located ferrous or soil effects.

FWIW

11 hours ago, Sirius said:

1966 clad, 1967 clad, 1967 something.

My assessment:  1966 clad, 1967 clad, 1967 clad 

But don’t take my word for it.  Showing us edge pics of probable clad coins is not really going to be definitive.  Have you looked at what the copper clad cores look like on non-corroded pocket change?  It’s pretty highly variable.  If you factor in the bi-metallic galvanic effects and other environmental elements that cause corrosion, on clad, the visual results are all over the map.  So, if you still really think you have something there, you can:

1) Take to a local coin dealer and have them assess it for free.

2) Purchase a silver acid test kit.

3) Send it off to be assessed and professionally graded (PCGS, etc).

4) Run it through a Coinstar machine.  If it gets rejected, it could be silver…

5) Brush the edge as suggested earlier to expose the copper core.

6) Keep it a mystery, create a semi-fictional backstory of its origin and impress your friends and family with the tale of the “rare” 1967 Quarter variant you discovered.

Silver coins are solid, homogeneous metal and don't have a core.  That coin edge certainly looks like a core is there which is where the term clad comes from.  Plus it does not look like silver corrosion but typical of clad which is highly variable because of its bi-metallic galvanic properties.  There is a possibility of an issue with the metallic composition of the clad planchet resulting in an error, but unlikely its silver.

Which is which in the picture above?  I am seeing hints of copper core on both coins' edges.  Nothing really unusual that I see from the first picture.  Looks like corroded clad to me.  And other than special proof sets/specimens no silver quarters were introduced for circulation after 1964.

Here's the relevant thread:  @Carolina has built his own set of compatible waterproof phones for the D2, so maybe he will chime in here.

FSA - Unfortunately, Monte recently passed away.

 https://www.detectorprospector.com/forums/forum/4-detector-prospector-forum/

Congrats.  Fire away with questions if you have them.  Specific questions regarding Legend can be posted in the Nokta Forum.  Happy Hunting.

3 hours ago, Bill (S. CA) said:

All I can tell you is what I saw when I changed the sensitivity.  The science experiment side of it, to be very honest, is of little interest to me.  I barely have the free time to hunt let alone do tests and analyses.   What this tells me is that I can run the Legend at max sensitivity in the wet without falsing.  That's good enough to me.

Bill, asking again, can you tell us how/where you ordered the Legend shaft upgrades. Thanks.

Don’t overthink it.  Charge before use and the regulator will do the rest.  I don’t think it is a good idea to run the battery flat as recommended above, even though the regulator will keep it from going below the minimum safe voltage.

Sweet!

5 hours ago, Bill (S. CA) said:

However there was one noticeable change.  Another buddy had found a very small junk chain with a different brand detector and asked me to try to read it with my Legend.  At the time I was running the sensitivity at 28 and when I swept the coil over the chain I got only a small chirp.  Frankly, I would have walked right over it.  I decided to bump the sensitivity up to 30 and try again.  To my surprise, the chain hit hard, even when I raised the coil a couple of inches.  From that point on I ran The Legend at 30.  For those of you who are beach hunting with The Legend, I would recommend trying to run at 30 if you can.  I did not expect this much of a performance increase going from 28 to 30 and it may impact your ability to find fine chains.

First of all, I am also pleased with Nokta's responsiveness not only in listening to users' feedback but also in relatively promptly acting on that feedback.  Most impressive is that it does not seem that the improvements they have incorporated have resulted in any significant degradation in existing performance.  Always a risk when you incorporate change, regardless how small.  

However, that being said, I guess I tend to look at these things from the glass half empty perspective.  What this is telling me is that there is too much of decrement in gain (i.e., a rapid dropoff) for small adjustments in sensitivity.  It's great that you were able to pick up the chain when bumping from 28 to 30 but this does not bode well if you are in an environment that requires you to reduce sensitivity just a couple of points because of EMI, for example.  It appears that you significantly decrement fine target sensitivity relatively quickly.  It would have made me feel better if you said you had sensitivity at 25 and bumped it up gradually towards thirty and the chain became gradually more audible.  Am I interpreting this wrong?

I too would like some more details on how/where you were able to procure the shaft/arm cuff upgrades.

Thanks.

8 minutes ago, Johns Quest said:

The only issue I have found is the iron check feature when using a DD FC coil is that sometimes it responds to non gold buzz but sometimes got to the menu setup negating the hit completely. I’m sit up properly and continue moving over the target. Dig it up anyway just to testing my introduction to detecting with the Axiom, but don’t know what I’m doing wrong when I use the iron check feature. 
Any suggestions?

Not exactly sure what you mean by the phrase: "[iron check] responds to non gold buzz but sometimes got to the menu setup negating the hit completely."  Can you restate that another way?  Really having trouble deciphering it and I own and use the Axiom.

Fixed a typo, read it again.  Basically I am wondering what ML means by the phrase "might overlook" in the context of Equinox 800 target detection vs. Manticore.  Also wondering if this also applies in the same way to the Nox 900 which is a little different than the 800 in terms of separation, ID, and tones. 

To me, it almost comes off as platitudes (learn your machine, its a challenging machine for experts only) and deflection (if we didnt do this it would "overlook" targets like Equinox does) by ML to bide time while they refine the SW.  Which begs the question of why is an update needed at all if Manticore is behaving as the designers intended?

Interesting statement by ML from the above:

We would expect an experienced MANTICORE user to dig iron more often than with an EQUINOX 800, but over time should also find some targets that an EQUINOX 800 might overlook. The consequence is that the MANTICORE can be a more challenging user experience, and we find that most experienced EQUINOX 800 users need to go through a period of adaption to get the most out of a MANTICORE.

Basically ML is saying learn how to use your Manticore before you start complaing about iron falsing and the Manticore will detect targets the Equinox will "overlook".  Does that mean targets that won't register either audio or TID in iron on the Nox will be detected by Manticore or is it more nuanced then that?

Well this is the least expensive that popped up using Google.

https://www.google.com/aclk?sa=l&ai=DChcSEwiv7N-z7b3-AhWDErMAHYpDBMkYABAbGgJ5bQ&sig=AOD64_2Lqc86SZkmmmo1CoI3_54mg6enKg&ctype=5&q=&ved=0ahUKEwj7t9qz7b3-AhXGF1kFHYkTAPg4PBDDDwj5Dw&adurl=

But shipping is extra.

12 hours ago, Jim in Idaho said:

Thanks, guys. Apparently his 'Nox is not now communicating with his aids. I was not aware that the 'Nox used a Bluetooth system. I thought it was some sort of proprietary setup. So, I'm wondering why it doesn't work? His wireless 'Nox headphones work fine, though he doesn't like them.

Jim

If you can give us some specs on the hearing aids' bluetooth parameters (i.e Bluetooth version (4.× or 5.x)), whether the aids are Bluetooth Low Energy (LE) only (which would not be compatible with the Nox 800 at all) and what audio codecs are supported by the hearing aids (e.g., SBC, AAC, APTX, LDAC, etc,) we can better assess compatibility with the 800.  If his aids don't support APTX-LL, the latency (audio delay while swinging the coil over the target) may be excessive and render them impractical for use.  Also, as Knomad said, it is a bit of a crapshoot even if the specs look compatible.  I have a set of BT APTX-LL phones that should pair with the 800 in low latency mode, but they won't even connect with the Nox even though they pair just fine with my phone.  Finally, if your friend doesn't like the Minelab wireless phones AND his hearing aids are found to not be compatible with the Nox 800, then there may be alternative third party BT APTX-LL (low latency) headphones or earbuds he may find better suit him than the Minelab Phones which are known to have a muddy sound quality (lack of high frequency definition). Another alternative is the fantastic Avantree Torus low latency (APTX-LL) compatible BT neckband speaker (that provides a near field sound scape that has more privacy and sound definition than the onboard detector speaker and which allows him to still use his hearing aids untethered to the detector).  The Torus also has built in earbuds that can be switched on (silencingcthe speaker) for additional privacy and sound fidelity.  I rack out a number of these Vanquish/Nox 600&800/Nokta Legend compatible 3rd party BT APTX-LL devices in the post below.

HTH

13 hours ago, bigtim1973 said:

Heck i would love to have one of everything but finances keep that from happening

I'm not advocating that you have both (and I never suggested it) BTW, just saying that if I were to trade in the Deus 2, it wouldn't be for a Nox.

13 hours ago, bigtim1973 said:

The new ones have a 0 to 99 numbering system....which I really like. 

Just to be clear, similar to Deus 2, Nox 900 has negative numbers also so the TID scale runs from -20 to 99, FWIW.  Probably what you meant, but my OCD kicked in.  

13 hours ago, bigtim1973 said:

But all of the goodies are not always in iron. 

True, but when they are...  Besides, I have not seen anything the Nox can do better than the D2 out of iron other than micro gold sensitivity.  Though I do miss having the 5x10 coil option (the main reason I'm sticking with the 900 as a backup) but the D2 9" round hasn't really been a hindrance in that regard either after 12 mos of swinging D2.

Not trying to change your mind since it appears made up, but just wanted to get those points out there for anyone else considering a similar switch. FWIW.

Also, want to make clear, 900 is no slouch. Even though I personally think it falls short when compared to the D2,  the 900 is a fantastic detector, a net postive experience versus the legendary 800 (what the 800 could have/should have been) and a great choice if you can only have one detector.

Good luck on your final decision and happy hunting.

2 hours ago, GB_Amateur said:

🤣  I never heard that term before but it's fairly self-explanatory if you conjure up a mental image, as well as from context. 

It's also a great Steely Dan album.  

3 hours ago, bigtim1973 said:

I am thinking I may try out an eq900 and trade in my deus 2.....I am very tempted 

Wow, that was quite the 180 over the course of a week.  And just based on a paper and YouTube.  Impressive. 

I have ‘em both.  Haven’t used my 800 much since getting the D2.  Liked what I saw in terms of the improvements incorporated into the 900 and the fact I could use my 800 coil collection so I got a 900.  But reality intervened as there was a loss of ID stability in the 900 compared to the 800 (and certainly compared the Deus 2) as well as more EMI susceptibilty compared to the D2 (a problem the 800 suffered from as well which tended to keep it collecting dust).  D2 still handles ferrous better than the 800 and 900 and I have had no issues with D2 target separation when invoking higher reactivity, as needed.

If you want TID stability with a 100+ TID scale, stick with the D2.  If I was seriously considering trading in the D2 (which I am not) it would be for a Manticore not an Equinox.

On 4/20/2023 at 4:48 PM, GB_Amateur said:

Isn't it possible that concentrating too much on the share price and shareholders' demands is what's gotten them into this mess in the first place?

The thing is they (Minelab) don’t really think they are in a mess.  Despite distributors and dealers grousing or taking their ball and going home, ML are still selling Nox 700 and 900’s, Manticores, and now Xterra Pro’s like hotcakes to the hobbiests and still have a huge PI market share in Africa with the legacy GPX and GPX 6000.  The drowning Nox and ML downplaying that issue seems like a faint memory with zero permanent damage to their rep.  As long as the detectorists are still buying the latest and greatest ML toy whether they need it or not (see the Xterra Pro pretzel logic on these forums) and are willing to go to the Dark Side to do so while abandoning their long term relationships with dealers so they can get their Manticores off Cabelas because they “just gotta have it right now”, then ML’s Dr. Evil approach is working just fine.  Who needs relationships and friends when you can just be rich.  Gordon Gecko was right, “Greed is good!” at least as far as ML is concerned.  Will there be any long term consequences?  Doubtful unless someone comes up with a treasure machine that is truly innovative and not just a clone or iteration of the original Nox.  XP is sort of marching to the beat of their own drum to a certain extent, but when it comes down to it, at the heart of things essentially what you have with the Deus 2 is just the alternative to the Manticore.  Nokta and Quest are just cloning ML while refining the wheel with bells and whistles and a little price pressure and dealing with lawsuits from…ML.  Garrett has made some hay with the Axiom but is falling behind on the hobbiest front.  And FT is just lost in the wilderness. 

1 minute ago, DSMITH said:

i purchased My X Pointer Max from Andy and Charlene Sabisch I had Charlene to verify what I was indeed going to receive was the new 2023 model which plainly states on the box the X Pointer Max comes in Magic Holster you can also tell by the Holster that comes with the Pointer has a small sown on cloth tab that reads Magic Holster, the first X Pointer Max has the same exact holster but the small tab is not present on the Holster and it does not state on the box either other than what I have stated there is no way of telling the difference, the older version looks identical to the new version

you can tell if the pointer you receive is the new version by taking a small magnet and putting the magnet against the main housing of the X Pointer max if you do as I stated and its a new version X Pointer Max it will put the pointer in stand by the older version X Pointer max will not do this

Thanks.  Good info.  Managed to see this when I logged in to the Quest site and viewed the "Shop" section vice "Products".

7 minutes ago, DSMITH said:

Chase if you go back and read my first reply to this thread which was the second reply to this thread rite after your reply I explain what the Magic holster does, that way I will not have to re type it all again, the new Magic holster comes with the new 2023 Model X Pointer Max Pin Pointer

 

The info is on Quest site

Thanks  Yeah you were talking Nokta Pulse Dive so I moved on, didn't see you switched over to talk Xpointer.  I am not seeing info on the Magic Holster on Quest site and am not sure how you know which Xpointer version you are getting from a given dealer site.  Just wish these manufacturers would not not try to get by on using identical product names on different variants. It's annoying.

22 hours ago, DSMITH said:

definitely wait for the new X Pointer Max with the Magic Holster, I was lucky to find one and I like it a lot

What's a "Magic Holster" and where is the info on this PP?

30 minutes ago, Digalicious said:

I then posted the above on another forum, and asked anyone to post a video of themselves, or any other You Tuber, in which the noise cancel quieted down the EMI noise. As far as the replies go, many agreed that noise cancel did nothing for them as well, but no one produced a video that showed noise cancel actually doing anything. I posted the same thing on a Minelab and Nokta Facebook Page, and again, no one was able to produce a video, or provide a link to a video that showed noise cancel doing anything.

If I think about it next time, I will try to take a video, but frankly I would rather detect then take a video of something to try to prove it to someone online.  When I need to invoke it, the D2 noise cancellation routine (frequency shift) does noticeably help compared to the Nox 800 and 900 noise cancel which generally seems futile unless I am trying to cancel out another nearby Nox.  The fact is, however, the D2 just runs more stable than either of my Nox machines in most environments, as a given.  Which means to me that XP took the time to get EMI mitigation right up front in the design rather than forcing the user to resort to in-the-field band-aids like noise cancel.

4 minutes ago, dogodog said:

Thanks for the info Chase, Some of my sites are so good, that's just not possible. Electrical interference just does not seem to be the problem. Would you walk away from sites that have a bunch of silver and colonial coins?

If I've I learned anything about metal detecting it is that there are no absolutes, your mileage may vary, and it is a constant battle of balancing tradeoffs.  The end part of my post was provided to be some hopefully helpful GENERAL advice for ANYONE reading this thread - it's what I do and what works for me may not work for you or others.  I don't believe in absolutes or "trap" type loaded rhetorical questions like the one above so I am not going to answer it directly.  I was careful to caveat my advice with "If you can avoid...." Only you can decide if the balance of risk (or waste of time) and reward is worth the effort for what might be there.   I rarely encounter a site, however, that I want to detect because of its potential that I can't somehow make the detector work despite noise.  If you have a better opportunity and can avoid the noise then do so, if you want to detect the site because of the potential payoff despite the noise headache and challenge, then do what you can to mitigate it.  Of course, I'm not saying walk away from potential treasure, that is ridiculous.  On the other hand, if the detector is just dead weight because it is generating noise, then just carry a shovel and pinpointer around and dig random holes if silver is there, you'd do better than just listening to EMI continuously.  It's the same philosophy as trying to exploit a polluted site.  You know there are keepers amongst the trash, it just takes patience, a fast machine, some coil control skills and an understanding that you are not going for depth but shallow "in between" keepers.  You don't give up, you just dial down sensitivity a little and go slow.  Basically, a similar drill to dealing with EMI.

17 minutes ago, dogodog said:

The only time I run multi is with the 800 and the 6'' coil. 99% of the time I run single Frequency

I guess I'm missing the context of the "only time I run multi" statement.  Why?  Because all your sites have EMI?  Just trying to understand why you limit the advantages that SMF brings to the game to a very niche situation? 

22 minutes ago, dogodog said:

Ground noise I welcome, and its very similar to Culpepper ground.

Why do you "welcome" ground noise? You lost me on that.