Chase Goldman

I completely understand your concerns regarding lithium cells from a fire hazard perspective and also from a life cycle perspective.  But I think in-service cells in devices such as cell phones, computers, and even metal detectors have to be handled with more care than occasional use charge banks that there to provide a backup charging solution to those in-service lithium cells.  I have found the external charge banks from reputable manufacturers (and I own several) to be highly reliable and tend to hold their capacity quite well because they are basically oversized for their application (backup charging), so the degradation in capacity is less noticeable than on in-service Li Ion cells which are sized to provide device power over a number of hours.  If you treat them with respect (i.e., do not allow them to get banged around with your gear) and do regular maintenance charges, I have found the external charge banks to be a lot more reliable than the in-service lithium cells.

8 minutes ago, Redrock said:

Ahhh!!!  Ok, that makes total sense.  Thanks Chase G.  for that explanation.  I forgot that I read in there somewhere that, it was indeed in case your battery gets drained, and you can continue detecting, using the aux cable, until you get your ML-80 batteries charged up.

As a matter of fact, even though i use the ML80 phones primarily, I still keep a charged WM-08 module in my MD Gear Bag as a backup if the ML80 phones do bite the dust battery wise so I can keep detecting wirelessly.  I think the passage in the manual that you cited is probably confusing to folks who are not familiar with wireless audio tech and also do not necessarily understand why ML included both the ML80 phones and the WM-08 in the EQ 800 box.  I know of several postings by folks who have had trouble starting out with the Equinox because they plugged the headphones into the WM08 not fully realizing this was not the normal wireless configuration they should be using.

Oh, and i should also mention, that even with some marathon, multi-hour Equinox detecting sessions, I have never had to resort to that backup solution.  The ML80 has plenty of battery life.

6 minutes ago, Redrock said:

I read the manual through twice, and plan to review it over and over, as I try to keep my learning curve and understanding of the Equinox fresh in this old brain of mine.  Lol...

I get that the WM-08 module paired with the NOX control panel, uses Wi-Stream tech,  for fastest digital audio transmission of 17 ms and for you to use your choice of wired headphones to take advantage of this option.  This allows you to still not be tethered, but remain still wireless, even though you are cabled with wired headphones, to the WM-08 module clipped to your self, or close by.

I also get that using the ML-80 wireless headphones paired with the NOX control box, uses aptX technology, Low Latency of 40 ms and is faster than standard Bluetooth technology transmission of 100ms or approx.  So even standard Bluetooth ear buds, or other types, will pair, but may suffer from lag time. 

So there are many ways to connect, both wired and wirelessly.

Which gets me to, something I read in the manual that I do not understand, and maybe someone can clarify for me, as it seems misleading.

On page 54 on the left side column, they state. The WM 08 does not have a speaker so must be used with
headphones. To use with the ML 80 Wireless Headphones, connect
the auxiliary cable.
 

So, are they saying its ok, to use the WM-08 module , with the ML-80 wireless headphone, in the event you do not have a pair of wired headphones, to plug into the WM-08 or to the back of the NOX control panel, using the included 3.5 1/8 inch x 3.5 1/8 inch aux cable? This being in the event you want to take advantage of the WI-Stream technology.

I agree, why would you want to connect both, its like they are saying, just pair the WM-08 module only, leave the ML-80 turned off, and connect the ML-80 headphones with the aux cable to the WM-08 module, to act as now your WI-Stream audio connection source.  Does that mean that your just bypassing, the powered up ML-80 headphones?  

Anybody else read that the same way?  I have not tried this by the way.

 

Yep, that is exactly what they are saying.  I think it is less about using the WM-08 because it has less latency than the ML80 phones, but the WM-08 provides an emergency backup wireless solution to keep you wireless should your ML80 phone battery gets drained or you forget to charge it since you can still use the ML80 phones powered off with the WM-08.

19 hours ago, Randy Dee said:

The idea of having longer battery life for the Equinox or for that matter any other metal detector for use here in the UK is because unlike the USA we have 3 & 4 day metal detecting rallies and at it for 8 -9 hours each day and most of the participants do not have any means of charging their batteries.  Steve has been over here detecting in these events and will most likely appreciate the battery charging nightmare.

Thinking about it from multi-day rally perspective, I wouldn't wholesale reject the increased capacity internal battery solution, but I think even if you give the upgraded battery twice the capacity which is probably the technological limit based on the battery compartment volume, you are still probably in the same boat relying, at some point, on an external power charge bank solution during a multi day rally.

A 30,000 mAH charge bank can be obtained for less than $30 US and could conservatively be used to fully charge your Equinox 5000 mAH internal cell and wireless headphones up to 4 times over even accounting for the efficiency losses in the process of doing so.  So I would have to see how much the RNB solution is being offered for to see if the value proposition vs. an external charge bank makes economic sense and is worth the trip vs. just bringing a high capacity charge bank in my MD gear bag.  I am all for increasing the internal battery capacity to provide reserve capacity in the event you cannot recharge between detecting sessions, but have still never run into a depleted Equinox battery situation even after back to back, multi hour detecting sessions without charging in between.

Regarding an AA solution (especially using rechargeable AA cells) mentioned a few posts back.  Great compact design, but  I am also not really seeing the practicality of that given the ready availability of high capacity external charge banks in a number of packages including watertight packages and also with associated solar charge capabilities.

Finally, even though this has not been suggested recently, I am not really seeing the practicality of an alkaline battery pack solution either.  I really try to avoid single use batteries in this day and age, if possible.   Just not a good solid waste legacy and I am not exactly what you would call an avid environmentalist.   This is directed more at those folks who try to focus on negative aspects of providing an internal rechargeable battery in a detector.  I often hear those folks say they prefer AA or 9-volt powered detectors  vs. rechargeable internal batteries because they can run down to the local convenience store and grab a pack of alkalines in an emergency.  The fact is that cell phone charge banks compatible with Equinox are ubiquitous and can also be bought at that same convenience store nowadays.  I really am a proponent of taking advantage of the live charge feature that ML has provided with the Equinox and doing so with Li Ion external battery solutions.  Just my view.

Way to make a comeback splash.  Great find and great story.  A true old fashioned treasure hunt.  

On 4/7/2019 at 8:54 PM, Kit Carson said:

I have 7 different headphones for the 800. Well over 50hrs on each,Im a retired beach guy. It doesn’t take a genius to modify them but I only waisted $$ On the Toney Iesenhower headphones.Right off the bat all the tones sounded terrible! Completely different  & No warranty after they flooded. 

You definitely seem to be in the minority on this opinion of the TE phones' audio and it is the first instance of flooding damage I have heard for them, but thanks for sharing it.  Would be helpful if you let us know which of the other six (!) Equinox compatible headphones that you own besides Tony's you consider to be the best waterproof phones of the lot and why.

5 hours ago, 1848cal said:

Yes, zero speaker function with both the ML80 and the WM08 turned OFF, and without activating the wireless audio button on the detector. As I stated earlier, I have factory reset both the headphones AND the detector on multiple occasions and still the external speaker does not function at all. Even with my limited knowledge it's not too far of a stretch for me to believe that that external speaker should operate loud and clear when the wireless audio function is OFF on the detector.  And, regardless of whether the ML80, the WM08 or a combination of both are ON or not. I contacted Naperville and was given a postal voucher for this issue to be repaired as well as have it undergo a series of comprehensive tests to ensure of its integrity and of it maximum performance. I intend to send a blank page with my inquiry written on it for the service technician. Whether he/she will/can provide any information remains to be seen. I'll post it if anything comes from it.

Thanks.  I know it sounds like folks were giving you "advice" for things you already did, but if you look back and read through your posts it was not clear that you actually had the detector's wireless radio and/or the headphones and WM08 turned off when you described no sound coming from the speakers (even though you stated you were resetting the detector, that would not do anything if either wireless unit were powered on and you never explicitly said you had ALL the wireless stuff turned off).  If the radio is off or if both the WM08 and ML80 are off (even if the wireless radio is on), you should indeed have sound coming through the speaker.  Every time I initially turn on the detector, even with the wireless radio turned on and headphones on initially, it takes some brief period of time to connect to the wireless headphones, during this time I can clearly hear the power on initialization tones of the Equinox and EMI/ground noise/Target tones through the Equinox speaker until the wireless headphones connect.  By resetting the machine and the headphones you have eliminated any "intermediate" unstable states of the detector that could cause the speaker to be in an inconsistent locked-out state.  I agree that it sounds like you have an on-board audio or speaker problem and that ML service is required for your detector. 

Clear and concise information is crucial to help the service personnel troubleshoot and repair your issue.  I does sound like something the repair facility will be able to readily replicate but I would not leave anything to chance and lay out the following either in the note you send to them, or have it written down and available as a reference should they call you in the event they can't duplicate the issue.

Summary description of issue (what I have gathered from your posts, correct any information that is incorrect or missing):

No audio is coming from the Equinox Control Head Unit speaker.  (Verify that this has always been the case even before you ever paired wireless headphones to the unit - this is important information as it shows that the speaker has NEVER been working from the get go).

1.  You were able to successfully pair the Equinox to the wireless ML80 headphones and audio seems to be normal coming from them and the detector seemed to be operating normally.

2.  Similarly you were able to successfully pair the Equinox to the wireless WM08 module and normal audio came from it with Equinox headphones plugged into it (True?).

3. Did you ever plug a set of wired headphones into the back of the Equinox control head unit, or ensure that nothing is plugged into jack on the back of the control head unit - doing this verifies two things for the repair folks, that: 1) you do (or don't)get sound out of the headphone jack (no sound would indicate an audio circuit issue and not just a speaker issue) and 2) verifies the speaker is not cut out solely due to something being plugged into the rear headphone jack.  So if you DID DO THIS, provide that information to the repair center technician as well.

4.  Upon factory resetting both the Equinox and the headphones you were unable to get the speaker on the Equinox to work regardless of whether the wireless radio on the Equinox was turned off completely, and/or even if both the WM08 and ML80 headphones were turned off.

Having all these facts logically laid out and readily available for discussion or provided to the technician in writing should help eliminate unnecessary questions and the repair going down the wrong troubleshooting path when your detector arrives so you can get a repaired detector back in your hands as soon as possible.  

BTW - (for everyone reading) laying information out like this in a logical, complete but concise manner really helps the repair center folks (I've done tech support and the most difficult thing is not the actual technical troubleshooting but communication between the tech center and the folks having the problem).  Communicating effectively helps you by eliminating ambiguous and unnecessary information and gets your detector fixed sooner.  Also, If applicable, describe that you did any troubleshooting steps included in the manual to address the issue.  In this case, there are no troubleshooting steps for no sound coming from the speaker other than making sure you have detector volume turned up.  Which it was in this case, otherwise, 1848cal would not have been able to hear anything in the wireless speakers.

1848cal - good luck and hope you get your detector back soon.  I know it is a annoying to have your detector not working properly right out of the box.

If you want sound to come out of the speaker make sure all the wireless receivers are TURNED OFF.

On 4/10/2019 at 2:57 AM, 1848cal said:

Hi Steve! Just received the Equinox 800 and installed the WM08 and the ML80 per the instructions and now the external speaker will not function. I factory reset both the detector and headphones and no speaker. I’ve combed every resource with no luck. Thanks

A little confused as to what you are trying to do.  First off, why are you using both the WM08 AND the ML80?  You only need to pair the ML80 headphones if you want use wireless.  The WM08 is a separate wireless receiver you can use if you have a preferred set of wired headphones you want use wirelessly with the Equinox.  So make sure you are connecting one or the other but don't try to connect both.  If the Equinox sees the WM08 receiver is on it will try to pair with the WM08 instead of the ML80 (it will ignore the ML80 until you do a factory reset attempt to re-pair the ML80 again), so make sure the WM08 is off and you have reset the Equinox if you want to pair and use the ML80 headphones.  Note that if the Equinox pairs with either the WM08 or the ML80 headphones, the speaker will be automatically cut off.  The speaker will only work if it does not connect to any wireless receiver and as long as no wired headphones are plugged into the headphone jack on the back of the control unit.  Hope this helps. 

Refer to pp. 54 through 58 of the user manual linked here for more details.  HTH

I might almost consider getting a V3i solely for that ground reading feature.  Lol.

Declaring one mode the best over another for any specific situation and target type is a study in futility because the best mode (or detector, for that matter) is the one that gets the job done when and where you need it to.  For example, no single key mode attribute (e.g., depth, power, separation, optimal transmission frequency, iron rejection)  dominates over the others.  Depth may matter under some circumstances but may be irrelevant in others where separation may be king. 

The other thing to realize is that while there are significant differences between the modes in terms of their performance attributes and intended optimal uses, there is also quite a bit of overlap as well, especially between the Park/Field "standard" modes.  This may be less true of the specialized beach and prospecting modes.  I think one could take any one of the following modes: Park 1, Field 1, Park 2, or Field 2 commit to using just one of those modes full time and by simply adjusting the user preset settings as needed, could be successful in 90% or more of non-beach/prospecting detecting situations.  I base this on my experience pulling deep silver with Field 2 and deep jewelry and relics using Park 1 and the fact that if you go to single frequency operation, there is little to distinguish Park 1 from Park 2 from Field 1 or from Field 2 other than the different user preset settings between them.   

The best one can do is take the information all the contributors here put out there based on collective tests and real world experiences and let users synthesize that information for their needs and circumstances which may mean a little experimentation and improvisation on the user's end to settle on the right mode and settings for the detecting situation at hand.  So think of all the advice and test results here as general guidelines and a good starting point, but not absolute, incontrovertible fact.  Detecting is all about balancing tradeoffs, there are no absolutes other than you will not find it if you cannot see it or have not put your coil over it, and a great permission is better than great equipment.

You might get more replies if you posted this in the Minelab general forum or detector comparison and discussion forum as this forum is geared towards just Equinox users which would only be a subset of those who use the pro find pinpointer. 

I like field 2 over park 2 because of the way it sounds, I think the depth difference between the two is negligible.

Regarding depth in general - Park 1 without iron  bias should be deepest on high conductors - that is just physics (frequency vs. depth) but the small actual raw depth differences between modes and the variability of all parameters not uner the detectorists control (mineralization, moisture, corrosion, target profile)  makes it possible to show practically any mode to be deepest under the right condition.  It is pointless to esyablish which mode is deepest, frankly.  In fact, for raw depth on high conductors in ideal conditions, any mode using 5 khz single frequency should be able to perform best.

Interested to see your test results.  In the mean time actual finds don't lie.  The .69 rammed minie and Parrot shell fragment in the pic below were recovered at 8 to 11 inches using gold mode at mineralized site in Virginia. 

Beach mode is not really for freshwater beaches.  It trades power (depth) for stability in wet salt beach conditions.  Though beach mode will work, it is not optimal at freshwater beaches and you should use the mode suited to your main target of interest, just as if you were land hunting.  This is how I stack up the modes for various situations and targets:

Park 1 or Field 1 for high conductive coins/targets (e.g., silver jewelry).

Park 2 or Field 2 for gold jewelry, nickels, brass and small targets and for hunting relicscwhich tend to be mid-conductors (brass and lead).

I use gold mode when detecting in highly mineralized ground because it tends to penetrate mineralized ground better but is linited in depth overall becsuse it is high frequency weighted and high frequency signals penetrate into the ground less than low frequency weighted dignals due to attenuation 

For salt beach hunting I use Beach 1 on dry wet sand and beach 2 in the surf.

2 minutes ago, bethanyb1201 said:

I auto GB by pumping and then set to  auto tracking. I always refer to autoband tracking in the same breath which isnt a good idea with all the different detectors in the market. If i am on a fringe area I auto GB and leave tracking off or it will really throw the machine wacky. Thats only in a few spots. 

That's a sound approach.

7 hours ago, bethanyb1201 said:

I have the best  success doing an auto 

 

I have the best luck in auto. I turn auto off if I have to really go over a target. The ground changes so much that in my mind I can notice a difference even if i cant.

Do you mean tracking?  Auto is just manually pumping and letting the machine set the GB.  Tracking is the machine tracking mineralization and adjusting GB on the fly while you seing away.  If you are using GB tracking, that's good.  Just be sure to auto or manually set GB at the outset so tracking can start doing its thing with GB already "in the ballpark" otherwise GB will be way off unill it can catch up which can take awhile.

No one machine can work miracles.  I have a Deus and Equinox both and there are things that each one does better than the other and I have a PI for nasty hot soil.  Glad you are getting the soil analyzed. 

No need to hold back on your background here, we can only make guesses about your experience level here if you do.  Steve tends to keep the judging BS to a minimum. I think its perfectly sound for people to infer newbie when you only mention only the BH with no other context.  Would have helped me focus my response to you better, knowing what I know now about your background.

BTW Did you try Beach 2 like I suggested?  Lower transmit power tends to provide a cleaner return signal in high mineralization, like using TX1 on the Deus.without having to lower sensitivity too much, like you had to on beach 1, and Beach 2 my balance the salt effects like beach 1. 

Good luck and let us know how it goes.

3 hours ago, NSC said:

still no good in Gold mode ? ...then the OP needs a PI machine IMHO

Gold mode is unstable in wet salt and mineralized conditions.  OP is reporting beach 1 works best, so I suggested Beach 2 which is designed to handle salt and black sand.  But I suspect Gold mode will actually work fine because we are not talking wet salt conditions and suggested he try that as well.  The OP is coming ftom an entry level BH to an Equinox.  The BH did ok in his area so I don't understand why he is having such a hard time getting Equinox to perform and seriously doubt he needs or is willing to lay out the cash for a PI machine, but we will see how it goes if he ever responds back.

9 hours ago, NSC said:

Personally, if your soil is that hot I would be in Gold mode 1 or 2.

The answer is not that simple if salt is involved, also.  But it is definitely something that the OP should be experimenting with as I suggested.

Those P caps mirror my experience with the 15" coil on wet salt beach conditions.  Love the coverage and it has no problem with tiny targets.  Even the 11" coil has impressed me with a few button shank finds (see below).  I am sure the 15" would have pinged that button shank also based on the tiny stuff it hit on at the beach.  I have not had much success with it in highly mineralized ground, though.  I am heading out to the red, hot Virginia relic field dirt this week, and will break out the 15" coil at some point to see how it does there, perhaps even experiment with some test targets, but so far the 11" seem to deal with mineralized ground much better.  Great finds, Dan.  You are having quite a relic run of late.

12 hours ago, RayfromAK said:

The wireless headphones work quite well, but I don't want to have a wireless receiver so close to my head for extended periods of time.

I completely understand minimizing unnecessary, avoidable health risks, but if you are reacting to the latest media sensationalized news regarding airpods and other wireless headphones, take a look at this article for a less sensationalized perspective:

https://www.health.com/condition/cancer/bluetooth-wireless-headphones-cancer

Bottom line, there is just a lot of controversy, but not a lot of facts or concrete results from research and the total EMI field from RF radiation of all types basically overwhelms the energy a pair of bluetooth headset can pump into your brain, even from close range.  Furthermore, the health industry is itself conflicted.  Bluetooth or similar wireless technology hearing aids often widely prescribed and used, for example.

That being said, there is nothing wrong with a better safe than sorry approach, though it might be less convenient. 

First of all, the 800 included ML BT phones DO come with a hard wired connection and cable in the headphone case.  Have you tried that with your Equinox?  

Second, if you are concerned about having the BT transmitter/receiver next to your head, try using the WM08 wireless receiver.  Your ipod earbuds should be able to plug right and remain stable since you are not putting any strain on the connection unlike with the control head, and you can still remain untethered to your detector and you can place the receiver in a place not near your head.

If you are looking for wired earbud alternatives for warmer weather conditions, you might want to consider getting a modified pair of wired buds that also include the proper Equinox compatible screwed-in connector.  Here is an example off ebay. That way you eliminate the having to use the ML adapter cable which also only has a 1/4" jack which is great for enabling typical detecting type wired headphones to be used with your Equinox, but I do not know of many earbuds that have the 1/4" plug, necessitating another adapter be placed between your earbuds and the ML adapter.  The other advantage of the earbud with dedicated compatible plug connector is that they are waterproof which means you can use them in foul weather or even water hunting if desired.  My personal preference is to buy a set of over the ear waterproof phones, many of which are designed to give good sound even when not water hunting (dedicated water hunting submersible waterproof phones often have to compromise audio quality by using technology such as piezoelectric speakers to enable them to be audible submerged).

HTH

It is something ML has been doing since CTX to enable the speaker cutout circuit to work.  Plenty of ML or third party adapters exist to enable standard wired metal detecting headphones to be used with the Equinox.  Not going back to wired though unless I have to work in the water or heavy rain.  The BT phones work well.  See my response to your other post for pinout information and links to other relevant posts.  HTH.

9 hours ago, andy g said:

hi phrunt 

 the trond headphones   are low latency as the plus sign shows up on the 600 screen  so if they were just bluetooth  you only get the bluetooth sign  and the tronds are  ll aptx  4.2 what  is says are ok   in the instructions  but  saying that i think  the minelab ones are 4.1  so maybe that is  the problem  can only use 4.1 LL phones  thanks for the info 

andy 

I have successfully paired APTX LL phones using BT 4.1, 4.2 and 5.0 with the Equinox and have not experienced any scratchy audio problems.