Chase Goldman

1 hour ago, Steve Herschbach said:

But the target id simply stays the same all the way to the point where the magnetite overwhelms and the target shifts to ferrous.

That is what is exciting me about this detector.  Hope it shows before I hit Culpeper again.

And you blew my socks off with that experiment, Steve.  Pretty cool stuff.  Especially the rock solid TID for that entire population of nickels at various corrosion states.

55 minutes ago, Go-rebels said:

Steve, how much variability are you seeing in dug nickels?  Have you dug any deep, black Buffalos?  Do those read as "13?"

Thx and keep up the good work.

Oh no, not Nickels again!  Lol

Just poking fun.

Seriously though, not sure if Steve has an answer for you, but discussing that level of minute detail regarding visual Target IDs for a very specific target in the absence of audio ID, mode, site, and depth data may not be all that productive, especially if you are considering that at this point you are only getting essentially a single data point.  

However, that sounds like a GREAT question to ask a larger population of Equinox users after the product is released into the wild.

When we can get a broader population of Equinox users and the resulting access to a good deal more data including first hand data then we should find out more useful contextual information on specific targets.  Especially since nickels (like gold alloys), as mid conductors, are a notoriously difficult target for any detector to differentiate from mid conductive trash like pull tabs and mixed metal bottle caps, it will be interesting data that can be useful in truly assessing the Equinox's capabilities.

17 minutes ago, Mountain Mike said:

The last thing Minelab put in print said "Customers who have pre-ordered detectors should thus expect to start receiving them from late January." They never changed or updated that statement so I expect someone will get one tomorrow.  

I can also read that as no earlier than late January.

Steve - I only recently landed here.  The Equinox was the first truly groundbreaking product release in the past few years because it combined desired features into a light and cost effective product.  Your forum was unique because you cut through all the rumor and fake news and provided honest and reliable first person information on the Equinox. 

So I came here because of the Equinox and stayed because you run a first class forum suitable for whatever machine you swing or style of hunting you pursue with great users who are here to share and learn rather than to troll and create drama.

Glad I benefited from your and your users' insights, even though I was a little late to the party.

Many thanks to you, Steve, and the other users of this great forum.

The ability of a detector to give you enough information to make a reliable determination of trash vs. treasure is about so much more than visual target Id's generated for various trash and treasure sample targets in a controlled single-mode air test.  That information is useful to have, to be sure but to extrapolate from that information and make conclusions about detector capabilities is like making conclusions and car buying decisions based solely on published government mpg data. 

You need to understand the audio signature, what happens when the coil crosses the edge of the target, mode settings, ground conditions, site conditions and context, and a host of other factors. 

You can't make solid conclusions based soley on partial information be it, pictures, text, diagrams, or from watching videos.  These are all pieces of the puzzle but you really need to be swinging the machine under real world conditions to make a credible assessment of detector capability. 

So when this information is graciously provided upon request, IMO it should be taken at face value and restraint should applied to making extrapolated conclusions (positive or negative) or criticisms until you have the machine in your hands and can confirm or refute your expectations on your own terms.

Just my $0.02.

I think this is a great first poll.  Since many folks will actually, realistically use more than one mode, I think a follow up poll ranking or prioritizing the four general categories would also be interesting, if Steve is so inclined.

Gene - 

Not sure of the precise technical answer for XP omitting the adjustment on the TX power setting for the HF coils,  but I think it is because of the huge range of frequencies the coil can be run at.  Fortunately, it is not locked at 3 like running 4 khz on the LF coil or off nominal frequency.  Not even sure what TX 2 really means with respect to the HF coil.  That is what XP says it is, but without any true specs on transmission power who knows if TX 2 on an HF coil actually corresponds to TX 2 on an LF coil.  No way to tell for sure.  Perhaps it really is TX 3 and XP is calling it TX 2 to make it sound better, who knows.  On the LF coil, I mainly just set it at TX 2 and forgot about it.  One thing I am glad about is that you can adjust/shift to any frequency in the range of settings and not take a TX power "penalty", so to speak, with the HF coil.

To be frank, I never felt that TX power did all that much when it came to thick iron or even highly mineralized soil.  The reason I say this is that I have now used the Deus with the HF coil in the super hot soil of Culpeper and never missed not being able to downshift to TX 1.  In fact, I probably had my best finds ever in Culpeper using the HF coil.  That being said, the GPX still blew the Deus away (no kidding) and I have video where I set a minie ball on the surface of the soil and got a solid 80 something TID on the Deus.  Merely stepped on it with my boot so that it was covered by the dirt and it COMPLETELY disappeared off the radar screen.  Silence.   That was using multitones with discrimination at 6, I believe.  I switched to Gold Field and could pick up a repeatable audio signal but no TID.  Point being, I doubt that if I could downshift TX power to 1 it would have made a difference.  Maybe more placebo than real, except, the increased battery drain at TX 3 was indeed real.

Bottom line is that I am thankful I have one less parameter to fiddle with on the HF coil.  I think you can compensate with proper use of Disc, Sensitivity, Reactivity, and perhaps even Silencer.  In real thick iron, I use an unmasking program that consists simply of Disc set to 10, iron volume at 3 or higher, and use of pitch tones (I set the pitch tone to the highest frequency setting possible or whatever frequency is best for your hearing, the frequency that stands out when you hear it).  In iron, I hear the iron volume through the disc filter then if non-ferrous is hiding in there somewhere amongst the iron, it will scream like a banshee.  At the lower frequency on the HF coil (14 khz +/-) I might get some iron wraparound screeches, but not with the higher frequencies.  You can tweak the unmasker further by lowering sensitivity into the 80's then it acts like Gary's sifter program (but with disc and pitch).

I honestly do no think XP is going to fiddle with bringing TX power back for the HF coils.  In fact, you are one of the few folks I have seen who has actually missed it on the HF coil.  I can only suggest the tweaks to the other parameters I suggested above, with the principle one being lowering SENSITIVITY.  As always, make sure you are properly ground balanced and you may want to switch to manual GB when in thick iron.  Oh, and give ver 4.1 a shot and see if the new ground sensitivity adjustment helps.  You want to keep it low (around closer to 1 to 3) in highly mineralized ground and higher (8 to 10) in sugar sand.  6 is the Default setting and is pretty good middle ground.  I think folks have found that it has a more pronounced (and positive) affect on the LF coils and little effect on the HF coils, but it might be worth a shot.

HTH

February 22 at 2:22 pm.

1 hour ago, Mark Gillespie said:

Even though I really enjoy digging silver, gold is what will pay for a detector the quickest.

To prevent walking away from gold I use the TDI while only listening for the high tone (low conductor).  This is exactly how I've found some of the most expensive gold jewelry.

 

Mark - if your finds (solely) have totally covered your investment in ALL of those detectors, color me impressed.

4 hours ago, Flbchbm said:

I guess I was looking not so much at the tones as the information within the tone. I have an MX Sport that I enjoy using but the digital sound gives me no more information than the TID does. The Nokta gives me a lot of information in each single tone. So much so that the TID becomes secondary to the information in the sound. An MX Sport with Nokta sound would be an awesome machine. Kinda hoping the Equinox would have that high-information audio to it. Either way I am looking forward to getting my Equinox! Thank you for the reply, Steve!

I think Steve is saying that the Equinox audio does contain that nuanced target information, but the language may be different than the Nokta.  So one has to learn a new language.

4 hours ago, Nuke em said:

That is one of the 3 UK testers . He is Neil Jones (Slow and Low) . 

I was being facetious.  Thanks for the info on Mr. Slomo (Slow and Low).  At this point, I think some people are getting a little salty seeing people swing the machine while they have to sit on their hands waiting and commenting on how they could do it better, whether it is scoop technique, appropriate beach attire, ground balancing, blocking wind noise, or ensuring all batteries are properly topped off.  So the reactions to the videos kinda go one of two ways.  Either you are getting really excited about Equinox's imminent release or you are getting frustrated watching instead of swinging.  In my case, I am excited about getting frustrated.

6 minutes ago, Steve Herschbach said:

I give them credit for at least trying. I could take the entire day today and tomorrow to shoot Equinox video, edit it, and post it. Maybe drive over to the coast and do a full beach production. And spend a few hours shooting live coin digs. That however sounds like a lot of time to me that I could use doing something more fun, like metal detect. And then there would be the critics. Why bother?

Yeah, you need to do something about that unnatural lighting in your indoor videos, Steve.  Very unprofessional.

24 minutes ago, FlyFish said:

I think if 600 Hardware processed  three channels. 800 five channels .  600 will work slightly faster

True if that were the case, but they are the same.  800 has a khigher recovery speed setting than the 600, too.

7 minutes ago, Skate said:

He looks like the Michelin man dressed in black. I do like kangaroo pouch in the front for finds. 

What's awesome is he is out there in that getup but NO GLOVES!  Hard core!  Re: the Kangaroo pouch, that typically doubles as the stuff pouch for the poncho when not in use.  I have a "tactical" poncho like that and it is great to hunt in the rain with and I can keep my phone high and dry in that pouch..

17 minutes ago, Steve Herschbach said:

 Peep!

Thats Better!  

Thanks, Steve.  Sorry it didn't work out, but that in itself is important info.  I think you are dead on regarding the amperage limit.  I have a number of power banks of varying capacities and amperage limits.  Will test the gamut once I get my Equinox to see what does and doesn't work to attempt to bound minimum power bank specs.  I see that the Minelabs spec say the charging cable is 1.5A.  Does it come with a wall wart or do you have to supply your own?  Regarding the AA bank, you might be able to at least recharge the WM08 or APT X headphones with it.  I'd give you a "Gold Cup" but I hit my limit on "reactions" today.  That's what happens when its raining outside.  Lol.

Geez how many test units are out there?  Get's a little annoying seeing all these rando folks running around with their machines without a peep from Minelab lately.

Regarding the gold scoop, I noticed that right off the bat and rolled my eyes, but then he immediately said that they are not beach hunters. Taking the opportunity to beach hunt on their tropical holiday from Scotland, I presume, so I cut them some slack at that point and concluded that this was not going to be anything close to a beach hunter's Equinox tutorial.  I've been to Kauai on several occasions. There is no place there like Waikiki beach crowded and bustling.  That is part of that Island's allure, so you do what you can.  Frankly, I am surprised they found as much as they did.  I think they were gaging the beach purely by the amount of surface trash they could see (a heckuva lot more than Brandon found).  It looked trashier than most Kauai beaches but that could have been flotsam washed up by the tide rather than an indication of a well traveled beach.  Anyway, yeah they were not avid, experienced beach hunters in a non-ideal spot and probably knew nothing of cuts, towel lines, coin lines, or any other nuances to beach hunting that experienced beach hunters know.  Like I said previously, the from scratch assembly segment was worth the price of admission for me.

1 hour ago, Alexander Piskunov said:

Hi, Steve.  I have a request for developers: the identification of a "difficult" ferromagnet. The VDI of the subject depends on the frequency. VDI increases with increasing frequency of non-ferrous metals. VDI decreases with increasing frequency in ferromagnetic metals. For example, the VDI of a beer bottle cap at a frequency of 5 kHz will be 15, and the VDI will be 12 at a frequency of 10 kHz. The color signal on the contrary 5 - 12, 10 - 15. I would like to have the ability to display information about the change of the VDI. This method will cut off any ferromagnetic objects. For some, this is important. Thank you.

Steve - I know you already responded to Alexander's post but his inquiry got me thinking (I know, how is that possible with no brain) about some related questions (My apologies but I do not own a Minelab machine with Visual Target ID):

1. Regarding your target ID reference above, I assume that was in Park or Field mode 1.  As long as you are operating in Multi IQ regardless of mode, will the TIDs be the same for the same target?

2.  When operating in single frequency mode, do the non-ferrous target ID's indeed increase with increasing frequency, or does Minelab normalize target ID to a specific frequency (say 15 khz).

3. Finally, if 2 is normalized, is there an expectation that the target IDs in Multi IQ will be the same as in individual frequency mode.

The answers to the questions might obviate the need or utility of Alexander's suggestion.  On the other hand, Alexander can accomplish what he wants by manually interrogating the target with different individual frequencies, if normalization is not used.  This was a technique I used frequently with the Deus early on to ID bottlecaps but have since switched to IDing them solely by tonal signature.  It takes some many swing hours on the machine to recognize the tonal subtleties of bottlecaps on the Deus.  Solely using visual target ID and you will be digging plenty. Lol.

29 minutes ago, Dwarf said:

Thank you guys for fast responce and info. In this case E600 is really great deal!!

It is a great deal.  For me the price difference is close enough to sway me to "have it all" with the 800 especially considering the cost of the wireless hardware that is included with the 800.

17 minutes ago, Cabin Fever said:

I know what your saying Chase but I’m not a ring hunter.  My primary focus is old coins.  I do dig all non ferrous signals 6” or deeper in my area though.  ID gets tricky at depth..

Bryan

Thanks, Bryan.  I dry beach hunt and coin shoot in parks and fields.  Mainly only come across old coins when I relic hunt (pretty much digging everything with a repatable TID pulse there).  So when it comes to coin shooting in parks/fields my beach habits (rings) tend to come into play and unfortunately tabs are an annoying fact of life in both venues (not so much relic hunting).  I do trust myself better to ID questionable targets via tone and do not trust myself to make a dig/no dig decision solely based on visual TID (i.e., if something read 15 instead of 13 with no audio differentiation, I would dig it).  I understand the point your are making regarding the possible lower "resolution" of visual TID on the Equinox due to the "compressed" dynamic range affecting your ability to cherry pick amongst the tabs in the nickel "range".  That is a skill as much as it is a detector feature and I definitely do not have that skill (nor trust myself to execute it) so my hat is off to you.  Yes, and reliable Target ID does go out the window with increasing target depth.  I am hoping the Equinox target ID reliability at depth is greater than my current detector, especially in highly mineralized soils.  That is why I am excited about it for relic hunting. 

23 hours ago, Cabin Fever said:

Interesting how the Equinox retained 13 for a nickel which is the same conductive number on the CTX and E-Trac, but the copper and silver numbers are quite a bit lower.  Makes me wonder if there will be enough separation from the tab range.  

Bryan

When it comes to tabs (assume you are referring to pull tabs)there is enough variability that I rarely rest on a TID number in that range and will dig those numbers regardless,  hoping for gold, happy if its a nickel, and shrugging my shoulders if its a tab.  Unless I get a really squirely audio tone (indicating a possible bent or damaged tab) I rarely pass up a TID in the nickel range.

Good catch, I wondered about that too but forgot to ask.  Not really sure what it would actually accomplish, but I also don't know that it would hurt either.  Just don't know if you "should" do it.

BTW - It took "Sharon" almost exactly 2 minutes to assemble the Equinox from scratch including the coil and armrest.  Nice.

37 minutes ago, Ringmoney said:

Whats really getting up my nose is that no prices have being released for the spare coils. It would be nice to know if I will be buying a nox or not at this stage. I would have ordered months ago if the coil prices were released. According to Minelab the nox is due out next week and still no prices??????

Yep.  It doesn't make sense.  I don't know why Minelab is willing to miss out on this golden opportunity from a business standpoint (not smart).  But i am also not losing sleep over it nor has it influenced my decision on purchasing the Equinox.  I know they are going to release the coils some day, I know the approximate range of prices they will likely charge for them based on past practice, so really it is not a factor in "to nox or not to nox", for me.  I don't think I have ever made a decision on whether or not to buy a detector based on the availability/price of an accessory coil unless the stock coil was just pure junk.  No denying though the lack of such information is frustrating and makes you have bad thoughts like Minelab IS actually making a marketing decision based on Equinox committed sales to determine whether to gouge on accessories, especially on things like the Waterproof cans which are necessary to do what Minelab marketing SAYS you can do in the water with this detector.  Multiple coil/detector discount packages would also be a nice offering.