Chase Goldman

Also, with respect to Joel’s post, there is a big difference between complex technology employed in a metal detector (e.g., MultiIQ) and the detector’s user interface which can greatly simply how the complex technology is applied by the user.  Strictly speaking, if the user interface remains simple and/or straight forward, very little training would be required despite the complexity of the underlying technology.  From what I can tell, Minelab has taken great pains to keep that interface simple as compared to say the CTX (thankfully).  On the other hand, understanding how the underlying technology works, can sometimes enable the end user (detectorist) to tweak parameters in even a limited/simple interface to wring additional performance out of the machine.  Whether Minelab or a 3rd party provides training on this would depend on whether Minelab or a 3rd Party anticipates the possibility of this “graduate degree” level tweaking a la Andy Sabisch’s Bootcamps, for example.

Awesome response!  Yeah, there is a feeling the CTX and Excal value might take a bit of a hit after the Equinox catches on, so why not "get out of the market" now.  Lol.  Your reasoning for ditching the CTX is basically the same as mine for the Excal.  The Excal is a niche machine for me and just sitting around most of the time.  The big question for me (and you) is how well will the Equinox will perform in mineralized soil.  How deep can you positively ID a target (vs. the Deus in my case) and how can MultiIQ open up a site vs. just using a single freq machine like the Deus.  That is kind of a boom or bust proposition, but since I know I can reliably use the Equinox for these other activities (beach hunting where it should excel vs. the Deus no doubt, relic hunting in nominal soil, coin shooting, backwater relic hunting) then it isn't like the it becomes a niche machine if it doesn't prove out to be better than the Deus in mineralized dirt.  Thanks.

Agree, seems to be an area largely ignored by the detector manufacturers.  I have a theory that since companies like XP and Minelab likely have a team of talented software engineers they THINK can also double as app developers but from what I have seen both the XP and Minelab smart phone app offerings have flopped.  Regarding Detect o Trak, there was some issue by app originator (who is not the coder) regarding iphone compatibility (it was initially android only because that is what the guy who wanted the app used).  So I don't know much about the iphone version but, yeah, it possibly could have been hacked so I would def not use it you have concerns.  I do not have the same issue with the android version and I am running security apps galore on my phone. 

Hoping OnX adds photo waypoints back in soon.  To their credit, I complained about the feature being removed from the major update and as a subscription user felt that I would have to reconsider renewing my subscription if the feature was not restored.  Although they did not have a timeline for when they would have the feature ready, they renewed my subscription gratis for an additional year to give them a chance to get it rolled out before I bailed.  I have to give them props for that level of Customer service and retaining loyalty.

Good luck.

3 hours ago, Sinclair said:

On the beach I use pinpointing all the time. Saves me from messing around with an extra pinpointer and armed with a little selfmade sand scoop, it's almost a 90% hit on the first try. So for me a must have feature

Only thing is this thing might be picking up items that fall through the scoop, lol.  I too like to leave my pinpointer in the car when beach detecting.  Along came the HF coils for the Deus and I started picking up very small items, some of them keepers (very small jewelry items that kept falling through the scoop holes, lol).  I started bringing my PP along just to be able to locate these things in little sand piles I would put on a golf towel.  Equinox with 20/40 khz MultiIQ (for both 600/800) might just start hitting on these items too.

Based in Virginia, in spring and fall/winter, I like to relic hunt wherever I can in the mid-Atlantic region (mainly VA, WV, MD, PA, DE).  In the summer it is beach and park coin shooting and club hunts.  I am interested in the Equinox as an all-terrain, fast detector that will excel on salt beaches as well as in the highly mineralized VA farmland soil and everywhere else in between.  Because it is waterproof AND relatively light weight, I am interested in exploring backwood water relic hunting which is something that could be done with my Deus but you had to add a lot of claptrap to it to be able to dip it in water.

Even though I own a Deus, the Equinox excites me because of its Multi IQ capabilities AND fast recovery speed plus it is relatively light weight (about a 1lb more than the Deus), great price point, and waterproof as previously mentioned.  Though I own some Minelab detectors (Excal II which I picked up used but have used sparingly and a GPX which I use heavily, especially in Culpeper and the surrounding areas), I am surprised folks like Daniel above are already getting rid of their capable CTX's BEFORE getting their hands on an Equinox.  The Excal never really clicked with me for some reason (probably because it was TOO specialized for salt water hunting and I am also not a diver so do not need it to be as watertight as it is), as a result I will likely shed it when I can (either before or after the Equinox arrives).  But  Daniel felt the CTX really did the job at the beach, yet he still dumped the CTX BEFORE getting the Equinox.  That is making a definitive statement and leaving an impression on me (and why I asked about Equinox vs. CTX in another thread).

FWIW: I use the android app Detect o Trak to GPS track my progress around a site, record finds, and take finds pics.  Great little app.  I also use OnX hunts which also has tracking but no current way to document finds with pictures though you can document waypoints for designated finds (taking pictures of finds as waypoints was a feature lost as of a recent upgrade and will eventually make its way back in and is the reason I moved to Detect or Track).  I still retain OnX hunts because it shows individual private and public property lines including landowner information from the county records.  I find this to be invaluable.  It is costly, though, as you need a yearly subscription to obtain this information on the app (but it is available for all properties 50 US states if you do buy the subscription.

1 hour ago, Ridge Runner said:

Steve stated in another post that Minelab was to have a meeting around two weeks. Let’s say Minelab tells them when the dealers will receive their orders. We looking at 14 days till them and another 7 or more before orders start coming in. Then you have another 7 days to get the detectors to customers in the field.

At the projected unknown factor it will be the following month before any of us see our Equinox.

Then you have another two weeks if one would even have a opinion by then let alone a critical one.

Don’t you think it would be a sad thing for this post to sit idle that long without a word?

Chuck

Yes it would be a sad thing.  That's why he also said he would be bumping it up periodically to make sure it stuck around.  But we're doing a great job of keeping it from sitting idle, anyway.  Lol.  Saving Steve the trouble of bumping the thread I guess.

That dealer conference has been scheduled for some time now (several weeks).  If they are holding to the original conference scheduled dates, then there is no reason to believe they are too far behind in production as the conference was scheduled ahead of the Minelab announcement regarding the late January production roll out.  Fingers crossed.

1 hour ago, Ridge Runner said:

Chase

....That was written was in humor form but how can anyone be critical of something only select few have and tested?

Chuck

PS I know I keep repeating myself but that’s the way it is. I be non-critical.

Exactly, no one can be critical of it yet...that is what Steve said.  He created this thread for LATER USE as stated in his post.  He wasn't expecting anyone to actually post a review critical or otherwise at this point.  Also, he was trying to make it clear that legitimate criticism of the detector backed up with data, information, video, etc.. would not be discouraged to avoid the perception of bias.

6 minutes ago, Ridge Runner said:

How can I be critical of something that I’ve yet to have one in my hands? Oh I’ve seen pictures and videos plus heard lots of peoples opinion .

I look at the Equinox and getting married about the same. Getting a new wife you don’t know every little thing about her. Just maybe what you do learn you only want it to be between only you and her. My problem is when I get it everybody is going to know all about it. Like my wife it takes all the adventure we would had together is been taken away.

If she had been married before I wouldn’t go ask her ex what he could tell me something maybe I don’t know but he does.

The Equinox has so many ex’s here It may be nothing left when I get it alone to learn.

I have the Equinox 800 on order but a old saying fits this statement above.

My money goes from hand to hand and my woman goes from man to man . In this case it’s my Equinox.

This is as critical as I can get about the Equinox.

Chuck

 

I am sure your post was tongue in cheek humor, but Steve made it pretty clear in the last paragraph that it was a placeholder thread for another day when the Equinox is in the hands of the general public.  He certainly does not expect nor desire critical reviews from us who have yet to even lay hands on the the machine.  That doesn't stop some people, though.  Lol.

25 minutes ago, Mark Gillespie said:

You know Steve I have wondered the same thing about the V3i and the Deus and the different programs.  Even though each program can be modified, I always wondered if hidden in the back ground were some sort of settings/internal adjustments I didn't know about.  Being a programmer from the late 90's I can see a line or two of code performing special functions for a special feature.  That is the internal secrets we may never be aware of.  But that's okay, if it works great.

 

 

While I don't have access to the Deus code and can't speak for the V3i, I have wondered this myself.  In general, as far as I can tell, the "preset programs"  on the Deus are just various different combinations "user adjustable constants" that get fed into basically the same signal processing algorithm while you are merely changing filter breakpoints (e.g., discrimination, silencer), responsivity (reactivity), operating frequency, sensitivity, tones, notch, etc.  In version 4, XP threw a bit of a curveball, where they addied a signal processing filter from a previous software version into the base program for one of the preset programs.  If you used that program as your base program for another "custom" program you would be using a different filter than if you set up your custom program from any of the other presets.  This is the only example I know of where there was variation in the way the preset programs actually behaved at the core program level.  There is another example for the Deus called Gold Field (All Metal) but the it is pretty clear that is a completely different signal processing core program than the rest of the normal "Discrimination" type preset programs.   I am already getting the idea that for the Equinox,  each of the preset program Modes are truly completely different core programs in how they implement MultiIQ as well as how they implement other features such as discrimination and perhaps even ground balancing.  Hard to tell with just a user guide and a bunch of You Tube videos and blogs as reference, but it is pretty clear this is the case and is basically what Steve has been telling us all along.  Coming from the Deus, I perhaps a little concerned that you can only save two custom variants of each detecting mode.  Perhaps I need to shed the Deus paradigm and recognize this is probably ok, especially since the Minelab UI on the Equinox appears to make it easy to change certain parameters on the fly.

Hope so too.  The situations you both describe is where I use the Deus in DIV but would like something where I can get an ID deeper than 1 inch which is about the limit for the Deus in Brandy Station Dirt (it will detect deeper but you have no idea if it is ferrous or non-ferrous, most of the time).  Lol.  Looking forward to March and seeing what this new detector can do with the hot stuff.  Happy hunting to you both in 2018.

1 hour ago, stumpr said:

The Equinox made it to DIV 39. It was tested in the Culpeper red dirt. I did not personally see the testing but talked with the Minelab dealer who was present during the testing. I don't want to violate any forum rules by providing the dealer's name but if your a DIVer, you know who I am talking about. Give him a call, he can fill you in on the details. I will say this, the Equinox is not going to out hunt a GPX (depth wise) in heavily mineralized ground. As you know since you hunt the area, not all Culpeper dirt is razor hot. I think accuracy of ID will suffer in the hottest of that ground but will surprise you in respect to most VLFs.

Actually, it was DIV 38 and the site was a little further north than the typical sites near Brandy Station.  I was there, too (The Minelab crew did not make it to 39 but were there at 38, including, I believe, the President of Minelab Americas who briefly spoke).  Mineralized, but not as mineralized as the heart of Brandy Station, etc.  I pulled some nice relics with the Deus including a Parrott shell there and can attest to the fact that it was not quite the test as the Brandy Station area sites but mineralized none-the-less (I too was able to detect a minie ball at about 6 inches with the Deus, but was unable to ID it like the Equinox, so that's something to be optimistic about, at least).  Unfortunately, even though I saw it in action, I was unable to swing it myself in the field because the Minelab rep always had a few folks lined up and ready to swing, big surprise.  I was able to swing it indoors before the hunt but that was as close as I got.  Liked the balance, but at that time I had no idea what the buttons meant or anything and basically got to hold it for all of 1 minute.  Would have like to have seen it in action at 39 which was the typical mineralized DIV nightmare, that is where I saw the CTX flame out badly with a pretty experienced CTX detectorist (but relative DIV novice) at the controls.  Being unfamiliar with the CTX I could give him NO pointers on how to set up his machine other than to allow him to translate Deus-speak parameters into CTX settings.   I will have my GPX but I will also be swinging an Equinox part time at DIV 40 (as I am sure a few others will as well) at that will be a great and realistic test of its mineralized soil performance with more than a single data point using a prototype unit.  Looking forward to it.   Yes, I don't expect it to do miracles or to even touch a GPX in capability but I hope it is closer to GPX performance than CTX performance when it is all said and done.  The poor CTX performance observed at DIV has me a little wary and is why I asked the question in the first place.  Hope to see you folks out there in March if you are going to DIV.

Gasp!  Cr-cr-critical of the Equinox?  Blasphemy!

In all seriousness, can't wait to put it through its paces, Good. Bad, and Indifferent.  No such thing as a perfect detector.  I have a benchmark detector that will form the basis for my comparison.  The question in my mind is whether the Equinox will merely supplement that detector by filling the gaps of what it does not do well or whether it will fully supplant that detector as my primary machine.  There is an option 3. But I don't want to think about that just yet.  Lol.

Just hope it warms up from the teens here before the Equinox shows up.

On 1/5/2018 at 3:49 AM, Sinclair said:

 

If the SD card holds the firmware and the Equinox 600/800 Hardware is the same.. upgrade made easy!

I know that was tongue-in-cheek but some physical faceplate changes would also be needed to provide full functionality due to the differences between the two (Gold mode soft switch and User Profile membrane switch are missing on the 600).  These differences, though minor, are somewhat disappointing because I would have hoped there would indeed be a (paid) software-only-based upgrade patch from the 600 to the 800 and this seem to preclude that possibility.

6 minutes ago, Tnsharpshooter said:

I will comment here.

I have loads of Deus HF coils (both)  time under my belt based on actual release date.

And we as users may need to be paying attention when using the Equinox as far as single freq vs muti tone.

What I am talking about exactly?

I have noticed many, many times when comparing undisturbed suspect targets (targets did turn out to be nonferrous), where using 28.8khz would allow for more slop in coil approach/position vs the use of 14.4khz with all other settings being the same except ground balance was acquired using both freqs.

So using the higher frequency depending when sweeping give the coil a larger hot spot(alerting position).

If using full tones for example with Deus, 0 disc, using 14.4khz, user gets more out of ideal position for detection iron tone sounds off and a person keeps walking.

So I will be watching how the Equinox does here.

 

Interesting (if true) and yet kind of bizarre considering you get more target separation at the higher frequency which doesn't entirely make sense to me with a larger sweet spot.  Did you find the sweet spot increased or decreased when you pushed the coil up to 56/74 khz?

Whatever works.  Exactly.  I expect the Equinox will fill in those single frequency gaps nicely.

I do a lot of relic hunting in Virginia especially in the mineralized fields near Culpeper.  I am sure many of you are familiar with the organized hunts conducted in and around that area.  Obviously, I have seen a number of vlf detectors struggle under these conditions (AT Pro, F75, MXT, Deus, and even the CTX).  Just as with most of those who frequently hunt there, the PI detector is the detector of choice vs. a vlf.  I personally use a GPX 4800 and have also used the Garrett ATX with good success.  When hunting I carry along my Deus strapped to my daypack, because I can but also because it acts as a pretty good pinpointer on steroids if I get into a pit and can use it to quickly scan the tailings.  Being single frequency, it is obviously limited there but under certain circumstances it is usable.  But my question isn't about the Deus.  It is about the CTX vs. Equinox.  I have seen the CTX struggle there just as bad as the Deus or any of the other VLF machines.  Sure, we will all get lucky and find a relatively shallow keeper target with our VLFs but not consistently.  Target ID is non-existent.  I consistently hear about how the Equinox should excel in mineralized ground.  I am also hearing about CTX owners who are excited to get their hands on an Equinox because it should do better under similar mineralized ground conditions.  Since the CTX is a multifrequency FBS machine that I have seen no fare well in the what can be considered very hot soil, what is it about the Equinox and MultIQ (or othewise) that is raising expectations that it can perform better than the CTX under these conditions.   I am not expecting PI like performance under these conditions, but I just want to better understand the differences in the CTX and Equinox designs that will enable the expected improved performance.  Thanks.

Thanks, Steve.  In my case, we WERE in a farm field.  Largely devoid of modern trash (though there was some).  The "high conductive silver" items that were being picked up were smaller, older silver dimes and half dimes so that tends to be consistent with what you were saying.  However, in another case a cache of large CW coat buttons was missed at 14 khz but picked up at 28 khz.  They rang up high, I suspect due to their size not composition as they were of course brass mid-conductors.  So I agree with you that HF hits hard on mid-conductors AND on smaller metallic targets (regardless of composition), but the CW button find really had us scratching our heads because these were Larger targets in a relatively close grouping (7x7' square) completely missed when swept by a lower frequency detector. They were picked up at 28 khz.    This is one specific case where I think things are not necessarily holding to convention (don't know why).  But even if I don't know why, I think MultIQ will more than likely alleviate the "misses" regardless of frequency that I described above and that is why I am optimistic.  Thoughts?

20 minutes ago, Cabo Chris said:

What?  Both have the same beach mode.  

Yep. Beach mode uses MultiIQ only and as been stated earlier in the thread, both the 600 and 800 use all 5 frequencies in MultiIQ including 20 and 40 khz, even though the 600 can't select them in individual frequency mode.

49 minutes ago, Steve Herschbach said:

OK, you are going by the past, and that has been true in the past, I agree. You are going with the old idea that single frequencies always have more punch than multifrequency. The problem is - that's not really the case with Multi-IQ. Not only are you unlikely to see more depth in 5 kHz only, but your target id accuracy will drop off because you are no longer doing target comparisons at multiple frequencies.

That said, I also have not compared the Equinox at 5 khz running the large coil against the same configuration while running Multi-IQ on your ground, so I admit that in the end I do not know either and you may very well prove to be right.  The point i am making is the old rules no longer apply with Multi-IQ, so be careful about applying past assumptions. My best advice to anyone getting an Equinox is to try and start with a fresh mind. It really is new and different and past assumptions no longer hold. We all have to start over, and honestly that's part of the fun.

Precisely!  Randy is most likely correct in his assertion because that would be the conventional wisdom that comes from years of MD community experience with single frequency detectors.  But as Steve says, we do not know what surprises await with Multi IQ, especially after it gets into the hands of thousands of detectorists that could flip conventional wisdom on its head.  My apologies for yet again using Deus examples on a ML forum (and Hf in an LF thread), but as I have discussed in other threads, widespread use of the Deus HF coils were starting to tell us things we did not think applied using conventional MD wisdom.  Namely, that you could be bypassing high conductive targets because they were not being picked up at 14khz but were being picked up at 28khz and above.  Totally against conventional wisdom.  While we still don’t fully understand why (there are theories based on sound science) we nevertheless recognized it was consistently happening and changed up our approach.  Problem is, just going to 28 kHz or above was not necessarily the right answer because then you could be sacrificing deep silver, so you would have to make a decision to grid with different frequencies or painstakingly interrogate each target with multiple frequencies to unmask goodies.  I anticipate that Multi IQ combined with the greatly increased recovery speed will eliminate the need for such machinations for the most part and that is what has got me excited about the Equinox 800.  But as Steve said, unconventional thinking may apply.

Does SolSol make a mossy oak camo cap style?  I have trouble seeing your typical relic hunter wearing the above.  Lol.

2 hours ago, Johnnysalami1957 said:

If you knew the amp draw of the machine divide by 12 for approx mah. And why worry about all these back up batteries. It's not like we all go detecting more that 10 hrs a day and can charge at night. Getting crazy here! You could always put a car battery in a wagon and pull it around behind you. With a cooler in it of course. How about a solar panel hat?

Solar panel hat, hmm.  Shark Tank here I come! Lol.

3 hours ago, TreasureGuy said:

I have sat back and read so much about both machines... I have no need for the top end frequencies, and have operated machines in the 600 frequencie range before and they have been great machines. To use all those great machine frequencies at once is what sold me the Multi IQ.. I have no need for Wireless headphones and I would never consider using the 800 full recovery speed settings as noted on certain Russian videos as you lose a lot of depth.. So it's the 600 for me..

 

I also thought I had no need for the higher frequencies on my Deus, not a gold prospector.  Until I purchased one of the Deus HF coils (14 - 58 kHz operating frequency) which made “hunted out” sites come alive again with both mid-conductor (brass, buttons, nickels, and of course gold) and, quite unexpectedly, high conductor (old silver coins) that were not being picked up by the LF coil frequencies (ie < 18 kHz) for some unexplained reason (one theory is that these targets were being masked by deep iron).  This is a phenomenon experienced by several users  of Deus HF coils in different geographic areas, so not a coincidence.  Sometimes, folks dismiss detector features because they are not interestested in the most common usage of the feature not realizing they may be locking themselves out of capabilities they didn’t even know existed. I personally am not willing to limit myself from something I don’t yet realize I could put to good use for want of $250 and that was the point of my OP.   If you don’t need to find keeper targets masked by deep iron or have the capability to select from two additional frequencies to counter site EMI, or any of the other additional flexibilities afforded by the additional settings of the 800, then I get it.  No need to spend the extra dough.  I am just not smart enough to know now that I will NEVER need these features.

You dealers have to put up with some interesting customer angst.  We can't help it even though we know we are acting like spoiled 5 year olds.  LOL.

"And I'd be out in my Santa Hat digging up staters..."  Lol.