Chase Goldman

Thanks. Yes, more power required for climbing or speed translates into higher battery drain and less range/run time in general, that's the obvious trade off. I thought I made that point clear at the end of that same paragraph from which you extracted my quote. But doesnt hurt to reiterate it. I mainly just wanted to point out that most e-bikes now have the throttle feature which doesn't require constant pedaling to get the e-drive assist as implied in your original post. Pedaling with e-drive assist only is known as Mode 1. In fact, on my e-bike, in Mode 2, which unlocks throttle assist, the throttle consumes less energy than the maximum pedal assist setting because it is capped at 20 mph max on level ground (and can give you climbing power for obstacles), whereas pedal assist at level 5 will take you up to 26 mph and can give you more climbing power also at the expense of range. So you actually drain the the battery less using throttle only vs. maximum pedal assist in Mode 2. Mode 3, if available and unlocked to the cyclist, opens everything up: throttle at max capable speed and PAS at the obvious expense of more level ground range. Certain modes are restricted on different types of bike paths and trails and your bike typically has to be clearly marked as to the maximum mode capability (1, 2, or 3) that has been unlocked and is immediately accessible to the cyclist on-the-fly.

Most e-bikes now come with throttles that can be used separate from or in conjunction with pedal assist and they are actually pretty responsive/powerful, with no pedaling required even up fairly steep hills. And fat tire e-bikes can handle some tough terrain. Can't get you everywhere a Quad or conventional motorized trail bike can, but they are lighter/more compact than those vehicles so no toy hauler/pickup bed is required and if it's foldable, you don't even need a vehicle bike rack and they they can be acquired at relatively low cost (between $1K to $2K for the Lektric Bikes Fat tire XP 3.0 or Premium series e-bike with full suspension and mechanical or hydraulic disk brakes). However, if you go heavy on the electric motor pedal assist or throttles, you will have fairly limited range (10 - 20 miles total out and back so 5 to 10 mile radius) unless you get a high capacity battery (which adds a lot of weight) or pack a spare battery (again more weight to deal with). If something does go wrong with the e-drive, you do have a pedal power option you don't have with the gas vehicles, but the added weight of e-bikes over conventional bikes means it will be really tough going to pedal or even walk/push uphill or over terrain obstacles you were able to overcome with the e-motor. Finally, the other thing to consider is that whether you are on an electric bike or conventional motor bike even with good suspension, your body does take some punishment, so you need to be without significant mobility limitations if going on tough terrain and decent cardio-vascular shape should you have to pedal or walk out of a dead battery or breakdown situation. I have a fat tire e-bike with full suspension (Lektric Bike XP 3.0) and enjoy it on pavement as well as taking it off the beaten path. It performed well but I also noted that without the throttle assist, there were some terrain situations where the e-bike would be left behind if the battery or motor failed and all I had was unassisted pedal power as there was no way I would be able to pedal or even push or carry the bike out of those uphill or obstacle predicaments. It's so much heavier than a conventional bike.

Check out this video. It shows how to disassemble the MI6 and you get a good view of the guts of the pp. I actually had do this disassembly to physically disconnect the battery to reset it when it locked up in the "On" state once.

That's what I did, but made it an EARLY retirement gift. I too was heavily invested in the Deus 1 eco system>4 coils, two remote/upper stem sets, WS4 headset and a few WS4 puck compatible over the ear phones. Haven't gone back to Deus 1 since, even with the lack of a D2 compatible variant of the D1's small HF elliptical coil. The HF coils were my go to coils for the Deus 1. Always thought there would be something the D2 couldn't do that the D1 could, but haven't really run across that scenario personally. Though, D2 does seem to lag behind the D1 in sub-gram natural gold sensitivity. That drawback doesn't really affect relic, coin, jewelry, or beach hunting though and since the 9" HF coil was my favorite on the D1, not missing the small HF elliptical as much as I thought I would, either. I just immediately feel I'm putting myself at a disadvantage whenever I consider detecting with the D1 versus the D2 and all of the user interface quirks (hard to operate pushbuttons, smaller screen, D1 remotes vulnerability to water) all deter me from pulling it out even just for old time's sake. Running D1 is like night versus D2's daylight.

Yeah, It would be nice just to locate the Go Terrain app itself. C'mon XP, talk to us. But integrating the Mi-X PP with Go Terrain to set up its modes, locate it, and to be able to use it in "smart mode" with Deus 2 AND other detectors (via Bluetooth LE), if Go Terrain ever shows up, would be great. Ferrous/Non-ferrous would be a great add. Don't really need TID but if it basically comes along for free with ferrous/non-ferrous, I'd take it. Vibration in connected mode. Finally getting to the root cause of the wonky connection issues would be great so it isn't such a crap shoot.

Relative battery drain/run time differences fo the various modes and configurations is spelled out in the user manual on ~page 37 (see this link for the latest online edition of the manual). See the excerpt below: These appear to be conservative estimates as I've seen higher battery drain with Deep HC, but not necessarily 1/3 less coil run time (i.e., 8 hours vs. 12 hours as stated) but it is noticeable. I also believe I have gotten more than 8 hours of run time out of a single coil charge running exclusively Deep HC. As always, on these types of things, there are lots of real life variables so, YMMV. HTH

The connection issue seems to be tied to individual PP/remote combos also as well as environment/EMI and timing. Also, just because EMI doesn't show up audibly on your detector doesn't necessarily mean there isn't EMI from cell towers or WiFi sources even in rural situations without obvious line of sight sources of radio interference. I have a PP that seems to connect reliably >99% of the time and a backup that has issues much more frequently. This PP connectivity problem has been an issue for years dating back to the first release of the Mi6 in 2017 and there have been several updates to attempt to address the issue that have shown incremental improvements. Definitely got better for me going to the D2. Hope they finally figure out a way to make all the Mi6 PPs connect reliably not just a fraction of them. Finally, if you are suffering from frequent disconnects or unreliable connections with the Mi6, make XP stand behind their product by contacting them and demanding warranty support. They may just swap out your PP for one that connects more reliably. Like I said, there appears to be some variability in pinpointer connection reliability due to manufacturing differences or a marginal antenna design. Mi6 warranty is 2 years.

Your tone selection will not affect your discrimination breakpoint (the point at which the lowest multi-tone or pitch converts to an iron volume grunt). However, on full-tones, iron volume is only heard up to about a TID of 1 regardless of whether disc is set higher. For example, if in full tones with disc set at 10 you will hear iron audio for all targets registering a TID of 1 or less. Targets between 1 and 10 are silenced regardless of the iron audio setting, whereas in multi tones or pitch with disc at 10, all targets registering a TID of 10 or less will give an iron volume grunt. It's a quirk only in full tones and hopefully will be addressed in a future update. One you've saved your multi-tones tone breaks and notches in a custom program slot, you can change tones to pitch or full tones on the fly and your notches and disc will be preserved (and the notches will translate over when in full and pitch tones). If you subsequently switch back to multi-tones, your custom tone breaks will still be saved from when you last saved them. I like to save custom variants of a favorite custom program (e.g., Deep HC) with different tone setups like Deep HC Pitch, Deep HC 5 Tones and Deep HC Full Tones in adjacent custom program slots so that I can toggle between them using the plus/minus keys while "interrogating" an iffy target. The differing way the target audibly responds in full tones vs. pitch can give me some insight on the nature of the target and can sometimes help differentiate between asymmetric junk like can slaw vs. round brass buttons or gold rings that all have similar mid-range target IDs. HTH

I'll let Sinclair chime in, but apparently he was using the WM08 in a manner that it was minimally exposed to water while water hunting. The plug-in APTX-LL transmitters suggested here will likely die if the Manticore itself takes a dunk in the water or is hit by a wave, but if the WM08 is kept high on the body (attached to a hat or the wired phones themselves) or kept in a dry bag, then water hunting is feasible.

That's me too. Keeping Vibrate in paired/remote would be a great feature addition. Not sure why they excluded it, but it might have something to do with preserving run time as I've noticed that in non-pairex standalone mode, run time is significantly decreased.

Not sure if it is bar stock or not. Like you said, iron was smelted to create cast pig iron as a bar stock for tools and other ferrous items. A search online shows these crude bars. It would be strange to make the effort to mark an ingot as shown only to melt and repurpose it for other uses. To me it seems to be purposeful design for some practical or aesthetic use. That being said, I'm not ruling out your theory that the markings are used as a guide to cut the bar stock or something to aid a blacksmith. Whatever the actual purpose, it's a unique find. Glad you preserved it.

Same one as the Equinox boat. For Equinox the first accessory coil did not show up until 7 months after release. Still have one or two months to go if they repeat that timetable. SMH

Yes the transmitter has a concave back that allows you to place it on the shaft and secure it with an elastic band.

Doubtful, I have the Legend and 900 so I am not seeing it as a fit for me as a backup or otherwise. But it is a great value and I am VERY interested in how it does, especially at the beach, to see if it can hold its own as single frequency machine up against the Nox and Legends out there. Certainly, at that price, it's hard to go wrong. I think it's proven its worth as a solid general purpose detector already What are you using for phones?

Thanks. Good info. Keep sharing your experiences with the Xterra Pro and happy hunting.

What tone settings are you using? Tone should stay consistent in something like 5-tones (or less) as long as the TID variation does not cross a tone break. Are you saying that the tone stays consistent even if it crosses a tone break? (If I recall the upper three breaks of 5-tone tone are at 20, 56, and 84, so I would expect some tone variation on the "high" bounces above 84.). Much appreciated.

So I did that with some quick and dirty air testing with my Nox 800 and the 6-inch coil (happened to be the coil I had bolted on, but it also provided a quieter test bed as I was able to crank sensitivity up to about 23 for all frequencies in my wi-fi saturated neighborhood). Ran a zinc penny, modern nickel, clad dime, and clad quarter across the coil (air test) at 4 khz, 5 khz, and the dime and quarter across the coil at 20 khz. The noise situation was such that I was able to run sat noise cancellations on all frequencies to get quiet channels on all 3 frequencies at Sensitivity 23. After running this test, I'm convinced that: 1) There is no signficant differences in air test detection depth between 4 khz and 5 khz for each of the targets. 2) The dime and quarter at 20 khz saw a loss of about 1/2 to 1 inches air depth vs. the 4 and 5 khz air test runs. Conclusion: "Quiet" 4 khz on the Nox does not come at the obvious expense of performance versus "Noisy" 5 khz and at 20 khz, all other settings and factors being equal, you take a performance hit on high conductive target depth vs. 4/5 khz, which is not surprising. As the resident doubting Thomas here, Dig, I know you are not going to take my word for it and will want video proof. Well, I leave it to someone else to go to the trouble of convincing you with that objective evidence. In the meantime, I welcome you or anyone else to share or post results of similar 4 to 5 to 20 khz testing and would definitely be interested in any results that differ from mine. But for now, I've convinced myself that 4 and 5 khz are basically equivalent in depth performance and I've seen 4 khz excel in EMI situations that shut down 5 khz, and to me, that's all that matters. Regards.

May the Fourth be with you, CAPT.

I disagree with the absolute "can't know the difference" statement as there are probably sophisticated ways to use signal processing and machine learning (assessment) to determine with good certainty the nature of the magnetic field disturbance (i.e., target based, EMI based, or ground based) under normal search conditions and to dynamically change filtering. I don't know of any specific detector that does this...yet, but I find it totally plausible. Automatic ground balancing does this to a certain extent by continuously monitoring the level of ground mineralization, and executing a ground grab when signficant changes in mineralization are sensed. But it can also be fooled by ferrous targets. But for today's detectors we are instructed to set up specific initial conditions so that basic assumptions can be made (or directly measured) to execute semi-automatic noise cancel (frequency shift/filtering) and ground balance routines. In the former, the detector "brains" either know (via a sensor) or assume the detectrorist is following instructions and the coil is NOT moving so any magnetic field imbalances must be due to EMI. Similarly, during ground balance, the machine "knows" or "assumes" you are swinging or pumping the coil over target free ground, so any magnetic field imbalances must be due to ground conductivity. Either way, we trust the designer not to significantly degrade performance while going about the process of finding a quiet channel or setting the ground reference point, as instructed. Be curious all you want. But continuing to ask forum members here "why" or "how much" performance is affected by these EMI and ground noise cancellation routines is just unverifiable speculation precisely because we are not privvy to the specific design details. I you want to get down and dirty into this type of technical detail, I suggest visiting Geotech's (Carl Moreland's) excellent detector design focused forum. https://www.geotech1.com/forums/forum Carl is a forum member here. Has written a number of books on detector design that are referenced in Steve's detector resources list. Cheers

Dig - none of us can prove or disprove any of this because we didn't design these rigs. So if you want concrete answers about what's going on under the hood. Ask the manufacturers directly. Who knows, maybe they can answer your questions without giving away state secrets. Those using the Equinox don't really care how ML made 4 khz quieter, they just know from experience it is, they can run higher gains than 5 khz, find decent targets at depth, and are not seeing any noticeable performance hit (even if there is a slight gain reduction). Simple as that.

Against my better judgment... Jeff is saying that you keep bringing up this hidden gain reduction premise, yet no one is reporting target depth loss at 4 khz vs. 5 khz in situations where you can run either at max sensitivity. Further, your 20 khz "solution" ignores the fact that there is discrete loss of target detection depth, especially for high conductive targets, by going from 4 khz to 20 khz and unlike your stealth gain reduction conspiracy theory, that's a given performance hit.

The Quest Wirefree mate should work with both Nox 800 and Nox 900 by plugging the Quest transmitter into the headphone jack of either detector.

Unfortunately, Nokta doesnt have a WM08 for Legend and uses a proprietary waterproof combo headphone/data/charge connector on their Legend/Simplex control boxes (which also makes using their outboard extended battery impossible with a wired loadspeaker or headphones). But Erik's nifty device will work with Legend (and Nox for that matter) with an APTX-LL BT receiver as an alternative to the Nox's WM08. Unfortunately, no WM08 equivalent or even APTX-LL receiver equivalent for the Nox 700/900 or Manticore as they use the latest and greatest BT LE Audio but there are no third party BT LE equivalents to these receivers out there quite yet. Because of the wonky Legend speaker and external wired audio limitations, I use the Avantree Torus neckband speaker with built-in earbuds so with one device I have a near field speaker or privacy as I see fit. I've used it with the Nox 800 too (and it is popular with GPX 6000 users). But it lacks onboard tone adjustments and the ability to plug directly into an audio source like Erik's device (which also appears to have a headphone jack of its own to pass through audio...nice).

Suit yourself. Maybe someone else will get something out of it. But I'm moving on from this merry-go-round discussion. It's like Ground Hog day and non-productive, tbh.

So why bother to continue to flog a dead horse? You want someone to prove a negative which is basically impossible. But knock yourself out. I'm tapping out, so congrats.