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schoolofhardNox

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Posts posted by schoolofhardNox

  1. 1 hour ago, BigSkyGuy said:

    Based on my tests it appears to be a leaching issue. I tested over 2,000 non-dug war nickels and only found three out of spec. @JCR has found several War Nickels that read high, but I suspect that he has not recovered thousands of them that read in spec. Also of interest, is that one of the three out of spec coins that I identified read low. I have not heard of anyone finding one the reads low. As GB mentioned the manganese was added to decrease the overall conductivity of the coin so that it matched the standard 75% copper/25% nickel coin.  Under mildly oxidizing conditions, manganese metal oxidizes to a very soluble ion (Mn+2), unlike copper which forms a relatively insoluble oxide coating on the metal. Therefore, the manganese leaches from the coin, increasing the conductivity.

    I agree with you and GB, that the manganese has to be the culprit. We can account for the higher readings but the low one must mean that copper or silver was leached out without the manganese loosing much. I guess under the right conditions, you could find a chemical way to do just the copper or silver. But it must be rare, since I didn't get many that read low.

  2. All fantastic posts and observations. So.....is it a leaching issue or is it an out of spec issue or is there something in addition to those, like our machines are so much more capable of analyzing the coins, or all of the above? Could there even be some sort of anomaly in new technology that has more than the usual problems with mixed metal identification? Kind of the way nails false high and hit in many non ferrous numbers? Are we getting a true ID or is some of it skewed by the processing of the signal? Kind of like harmonics when dealing with frequencies. So far the manganese factor seems to be the most probable to have something to do with it. Most of our silver coins  read pretty reliable, only changing due too wear. Our Cu/Ni coinage usually reads solid, but when you add manganese into the mix, you get what we have now. I wish I still had my DFX. I would love to see what they read on older technology.

    • Like 2
  3. 2 hours ago, JCR said:

    None of the War Nickel I have dug had any serious corrosion. The discoloration varies some. I may have time to see if there is any correlation.

    (edited my original response)

    I'm assuming you are digging in dirt. If that's the case then the consistency of our coinage is in question.

    • Like 1
  4. So I have been posting my beach detecting series mostly using a GPX, but sometimes the Manticore. Recently discussions got around to trying out the war nickels on the Manticore, doing an air test to see if they read the same as a non dug (clean) war nickel and also how that compares to a CU-Ni modern nickel. This is a continuation of those discussions now posted in a more appropriate forum. I was running the Manticore in Goldfield (but ran it in every other mode) with just about the same results. Sensitivity was set to 13  as I was in my house. It ran very quiet and all targets were solid, non bleeding and on the line targets, on the screen. Nice round blobs. For this test I ran a bunch of war nickels that were from the same beach, over a span of around 6-8  years. The first test was done with them uncleaned. I separated them into 3  general categories: black toned/black encrusted, green encrusted, white/ mostly white. Here are the Target ID's (Black toned - 23, 15, 23, 21, 16, 16, 20--- Black encrusted - 80), /// (Green encrusted - 23, 25, 49, 31, 44, 38, 70, 45, 32, 11, 43, 52, 46, 68, 35, 56) ///  (White or mostly white - 25, 27, 34, 24, 26, 45) As a reference, I scanned a non beach clean war nickel and it came in at - 28. Also a modern clean (CU NI) one that came in at - 26.

    I then took one of the black nickels that read 16 and cleaned it until all the black toned color was removed. It still read 16 - no change. So I took the black encrusted nickle that read 80 and cracked off the black coating and brass brushed it and baking soda steel wooled it, but could not get it completely silver, but almost. It now read 80 - no change.

    I have absolutely no idea why these nickels read all over the place. I first thought that the green crusted was more copper based - copper oxide, so it should read higher. I also thought the black crusted ones would probably be a silver oxide and would read even higher. At first it looked like that, but now it seems the coating has no repeatable effect on the target id.

    Any thought on this? This picture is one of the first experiment I did on the issue with just 4 nickels (not included in the list above).

    war nickles.jpg

    • Like 2
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  5. I'm going to start a discussion on this issue on the Manticore forum, so maybe other beach Manticore owners can try this as well. I ran some more tests and I'm more confused now than ever. 😳 Steve or anyone who can move some of the posts from here to there, it would be appreciated.

    • Like 1
  6. 38 minutes ago, GB_Amateur said:

    Wow, thanks for the quick response!  Do you realize you've just solved a mystery that has been floating around this site (and other detecting sites) for quite a few years?  I'm serious.

    There have been multiple reports of Warnicks giving considerably higher VDI's than other nickels, even though no one has ever given evidence that Warnicks *not* coming from the ground read anything different than standard 25-75 Ni-Cu.  (I measured over 150 in my non-detected collection with the Eqx and all were either 13 or (occasionally) 13-14.

    The Manticore's USA nickel VDI's peak around 26-27 so your recent two are way above that.  (And they are consistent with many of the earlier reports of coins which were found in the ground, but not in saltwater.)

    The environment has seriously changed the conductivity and selective removal of manganese (9% of the Warnick and a very low conductor) is pretty much now the solid explanation.

    I'm wondering if the copper oxide crust is raising that number considerably. If I get some time this weekend, I'll try a normal non oxidized war nickel and see if it reads closer to 26. It seems the more refined detectors become, the more number variability they take on. Bring back the E Trac set to maximum spread. 😅 There was just enough difference to mostly tell silver from clad (even Wheats from Memorials).

    Ok, I couldn't wait 🙄. So I tried a war nickel that was clean and it read 28. So far so good, just 2 numbers higher that a Cu-Ni one. But then I started to think maybe the copper oxide is raising the numbers to be more and average of copper and nickel. So then I thought what if the black encrusted ones I find are silver oxide on the top making it black.They should read even higher. But the findings surprised even me. These four new nickels are from the same beach different year's hunt. both the top left and bottom left are black, the only difference is one is clean and toned black (corrosion cracked off), the other is raw thick black (not having the corrosion cracked off). The top right and bottom right are different levels of the green corrosion. What is going on here??? I think I was in goldfield mode.

    war nickles.jpg

    • Like 2
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  7. 22 hours ago, F350Platinum said:

    Outstanding again.

    I don't know how you do it, but I sure know why, 🤔 looks like things are starting to thin a bit. 😬

    I get the silverware but old buttons and doorknobs? Well at one beach I have found some old house parts like glass fuses and such.

    Another great one. 👍

    Yep, things are drying up a bit. But I can't complain, it's been a good streak for silver with a couple gold thrown in. Now back to reality 😓 The old button is probably just after WW II, when beaches were a great source of relief. I get a lot of coins in the 40's / 50's layer. The door knob is probably from some previous storms that took down cottages that were waterside. Either before the state took over the beach or from adjacent areas that were later purchased by them. I get a decent amount of house items, and yes, them cork fuses show up sometimes.

    3 hours ago, GB_Amateur said:
    •  
     

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    If I've been following correctly, isn't this the first time in a while you've been in single digits with your silver coin count?  Even for you that was a hell of a run!

    BTW, if you think of it would you run one of those green Warnicks over the Manticore and report the digital TID?

    Thanks. Single digits are fine (unless it's just 1) 😅. I'm shocked the silver stuck around this long. I'm sure there is probably another beach somewhere where the conditions were similar. I should have tried to get to some NH beaches. I saw some videos where the GPX would have done very well on those rocky areas. Unfortunately, I couldn't spare anymore time than I already did.

    On the Manticore, I ran some numbers for you. I was inside, so sensitivity was at 13. I had discrimination, but it would not affect the readings as the signals were pure with no bleeding into the disc zone. I did not reset the machine, as I didn't want to lose my settings. So not a standardized test by any means. I tried both nickels, so the first number you see is the less corroded one and the second number is the more corroded one. AT Gen - 46/49, AT Fast- 46/49, AT LC - 47/50, AT HC - 48/50, AT Trash Reject - 46/49, Beach General - 46/49, Beach LC - 46/49, Beach Deep - 46/49, Beach Surf & Seawater - 45/48, Goldfield - 45/48. Numbers jumped sometimes with the low number at 45 and the high number at 50 (occasionally jumping to 53).

    • Like 3
  8. 15 minutes ago, The_Stalker said:

    School,

    What machine were you using for this hunt?

    GPX 5000. Now, I usually bring the AQ and the Manticore in case my 2 batteries die on the 5000. These recent hunts seem to draw down each of my batteries after 4 hours hunting. My machine of choice for beaches is the GPX. But the beach takes a toll on the machine. I'm surprised it survives what I do to it 😅

    • Like 2
  9. 2 hours ago, rvpopeye said:

    As usual .....another good haul !    37 merc is a nice one !

    Spoons are well represented today.  The ?  #1 key fob/whatzit on the left below the dimes is interesting.  Looks like a scared ghost.🙃

    Thank. The 37 Merc is in nice shape. Usually they are fairly worn.

    I have that charm backwards. I think it's supposed to read  - # 1. On the side I showed you can just read the "ng" from sterling to the right of the bottom of the 1. God I hate spoons  😫

    • Like 1
  10. Beach hunt # 23 is over. I started by hunting another beach I had done well on recently and was lucky enough to get a Walking Liberty half dollar. 🥰 I spent about 4 hours there and the only other good find was a military cuff button. So, it was time to move on. Beach #2 however was the beach I have been hunting for the last couple of times, so I didn’t take much for me to head there. It was slow going at first, finally scoring a worn-out Mercury dime. I was pretty sure my day would end with just 2 silvers for the day. I did get a lot of coins, mostly clad, along with less trash than the other beach. Finally, I hit a spot that gave me a small silver ring along with an odd silver pendant. I was almost ready to go, as the sun sets fast these days. I procrastinate a lot at the end of a hunt, and I was bitchin’ to myself that I spent too much time at the first beach. 😔 But as luck has it, I hit 3 targets in a row that were silver dimes. That helped a lot. I did get my obligatory Buffalo nickel, as I feel lonely without one. 🙄 The biggest surprise came at home when I started to look over the nickels, checking on the dates. I usually use nickels to see what era I was hunting in. I would have never imagined I had 2 silver war nickels, as they were green encrusted, as opposed to the normal black beach encrusted ones. After thinking about it, I barely recall finding one green war nickel before. I only spent 3 hours at beach 2, but the finds outdid beach one (time spent). A decent hunt and I’m struggling to see where I want to go next. I may have to again do a 2-beach hunt, starting at a new beach and then ending up at silver beach.

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    • Like 3
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  11. 1 hour ago, Steve Herschbach said:

    It was not all the fact the forum software was dysfunctional. The freedom of speech so highly touted there was really due to there being no moderator, Wally always being busy and Tom out of the loop. Quite a few well known posters from past times were run off by trolls due to the lack of moderation. This forum was actually set up in direct response to unmoderated forums, almost all of which have now died away completely. I don’t see those people returning no matter what software is running the place as long as trolls are given free rein.

    Here is the link to Tom’s Old Forum

    and here is the direct link to Tom’s New Forum

    I wish them well, lots of great info posted there over the years.

    How true. The reason I left there was because of the relentless attack on a forum member (I did not know him). The forum shifted from a great bunch of knowledgeable people, to a gang of old timers that ruled it for their amusement. I was embarrassed after sending the archaeologists that I work with on projects, to that site to ask members if they could ID some of their finds. They never posted anything there after seeing that drama. I felt like an idiot for recommending that site. I always felt I lost some credibility with them over that. I have no reason to ever go back there.

    • Like 2
    • Sad 1
  12. 7 hours ago, Valens Legacy said:

     

     

    I have a lot of contacts that are 18k solid and a lot of traces or runs that are gold plated. That is the reason I am interested in reclaiming as much gold as I can from the circuit boards.

    Some of the contacts are between 1/2 to 1 gram each and will add up very quickly.

    Specialty boards that use gold for connections are not cheap and I am going to get my monies worth since they are bad.

    Thanks for the heads up on what to expect from reclaiming gold from boards.

    I belong to a gold refining forum, as I have a small recycling business. There are a lot of ways to get gold from components on a circuit board or from plated pins. There are ways to bleach or hydrogen peroxide to put metals into solution, but aqua regia is the fastest and most effective method. There are other more dangerous methods out there. I would strongly recommend  that if anyone is intending to do any kind of refining to join a refining forum on line. Not only are there life threatening chemical combinations that can be fatal, but there are components that contain beryllium, that are very toxic. Also other conditions that may happen inadvertently when you are refining for one metal but there may be others present that may cause you harm.  I don't want to stray off topic too much, but DM me if anyone needs more information and on what forum to join.

    As for the article, there has been more interests lately into using amino acids and other more natural ways to leach metals from components, as well as crushed rock. The article still needed nitric and hydrochloric acids to put the metals into solution. Interesting read, but not to the level where it would be practical to use....yet.

    Most people over estimate the amount of gold in electronics. You need a lot more separated components that one might think. I won't refine mine until I have a lot of gold bearing items. The cost of chemicals makes it difficult to refine on a small scale. But you can do it just for fun or to have a tiny bead of gold to show.  Here is how I store mine until I can break down the boards for refining.

    20230816_122310.jpg

    • Like 6
    • Thanks 1
  13. 4 hours ago, rvpopeye said:

    sohN

    I suppose you're right .

    My clad quarter is worth 25 of those zincolns , maybe 30 ?  

    And I only had to dig  a few holes into a giant dirtcicle too ! 

    Thx for pointing that out. I feel better now. 

    The half pull tab and foil ball is nothing compared to your junk though . 🤗!

     

    That's what I tell my wife all the time...I have the most junk in town 😂 She just rolls her eyes 🙄

    • Haha 1
  14. 7 hours ago, rvpopeye said:

    O TAY ! 11 silvers and a gold topper !  Another 5# of coins , (those must really be adding up !) 

    You didn't make me look so bad today though.           The others beat you to it this time ! 😏

    And somehow I got a clad quarter,  a pull tab. And a ball of foil that was actually a nickel  ! 

    Until I scraped down to it and found the foil..    

     

     

     

    Yeah, I was slackin'. I will do better next time. 😄 Those pennies just get in the way. At least they could be wheaties for crying out loud.  Other people find way better stuff than me 🤔 What you complaining about, you got three finds more than you had before. 😇

    1 hour ago, F350Platinum said:

    Nice ring! You even got some Pacifico in the Atlantico. 🤣

    Quite interesting to see the AQ performing like the GPX. Great hunt! 🏆

    Thanks, What I really got from the Atlantico was a very sore body today. 😅 The AQ did well on the tough sand. It falses just like the GPX if your coil control is bad or you go too fast.  But it did hit that tiny ring and that is one of the things that I though would come in handy. I just envisioned it in the wet sand and not where I was using it. But it will always be used there before or after the GPX is used. Between the two, I'm hoping to cover those types of areas well.

    • Like 3
  15. Beach hunt # 22 is done. This was supposed to be a low tide hunt, so I brought the Manticore, AQ  and the GPX. I started with the GPX since low tide was not for a while. I decided to try the other end of the beach hoping it would be similar to this side, which has been extremely good to me. It was not. 😔 I don’t know why that side of the beach does not get wrecked when storms pass, but it seems unaffected after a storm. So, I hour wasted. I returned to the good side and wanted to go over an area I did previously. They had bulldozed that section flat while trying to repair damages done. I quickly found a copper penny and a silver Washington. Did about 20 minutes there but told myself I have to get the AQ and start doing that low tide. I changed detectors and headed down the beach, quickly realizing all that upper sand that was removed never made it out far enough into the ocean. Low tide was still sanded in. Now what? 🙄 I guess in my usual manner of not using machines the way they were designed for, I headed up to the black/purple sand area. I hunted this area hard with the GPX but remembered a couple of nickels that barely read on the machine. The combination of that sand and a clay bottom within 6-10” made detecting hard there. But first the new area I just got silver at with the GPX. I started finding coins immediately and pulled a bunch of silver and clad along with having some nice conversations with the state workers, which were trying to repair some damage nearby. After I exhausted that area, I really wanted to try the areas I hit hard where the nickels read terribly (they sound squiggly, like a wire would). Not a lot there, but I did notice I was getting some small lead and some thinner brass items. Then I got a decent hit, and out pops a small ring sitting on the clay with about 7” of  sand over it. It had a stone in it that kind of looked good, but the band was encased in that tough reddish/ brown sand. Sort of like the color of rusted iron.  I wiped a part of the band, and it cleaned up enough to see gold. I was 50/50 on it being gold. It turned out to be a 10K small diamond(?) ring, size 5 ½. So not using the AQ quite like Alexandre designed it for (sorry about that)😅, but it is my first gold with the AQ, I ultrasonic cleaned it, but it needs more work. The totals are in: 136 ish coins, 11 which are silver, a silver ring and earring and possibly some kind of clock pendant and the 10K ring. Some other neat relics include some religious medals, a pocket watch, and some junk jewelry. One lone Buffalo nickel to satisfy my need to not dig a zillion nickels without a Buffalo. Another fun hunt and a chance to try the AQ in tough sand conditions.

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    • Like 5
  16. 2 hours ago, Gerry in Idaho said:

    I've been in contact with Alex and he knows me from many yrs of promoting gold detectors and working with previous Engineering.  It's just going to take some time to get them to US.  Hopefully not over a year, like some manufactures.

    Next time you talk with him, tell him I need the next generation unit to beat the GPX 5000 on deep beach coins 😅 No hurry,  if he can get me one by next week that would be fine 😂. It is nice to see someone willing to get a quality PI to the market and hopefully reset the current pricing system.

    • Like 3
  17. 22 hours ago, F350Platinum said:

    Wow. Guess you need a sack rather than a pouch to haul away all that stuff.

    I've had a few of those find/minute hunts, mostly in campgrounds. 👍 You're beat when you're done but it still feels great. Congrats!

    BTW I think I only got one silver coin. 🤣

    I use an empty vitamin bottle that I cut a slot in the top, that I use for dropping my coins and other good stuff in while I hunt. This time it was completely full of coins. That has never happened before. I must admit, you get used to all those squats after a while. I always think I am going to hurt more than I actually do. It kind of feels good, pushing the knees, legs, arms, etc.

      If your one silver is lonely, you can send it here 😅

    • Like 2
    • Haha 1
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