Rick K - First Member

If anybody wanted to waste their time by crawling around the various forums under my handle lytle78 – they would probably see that I have expressed a certain skepticism about Minelab and the pricing policies.

On the other hand I am no dumber than your average rock and I knowledge that their current top-of-the-line model GPX 5000 is probably the world's greatest gold detector.

Not being an accomplished gold detectorist or prospector I'm not in a position to shell out five grand or thereabouts on the metal detector.

Last week and opportunity presented itself to buy a minelab SD2100 at an attractive price with an assortment of nice coils. It arrived today it works fine and I look forward to playing with it in my ground here in gold canyon Arizona – where there is no gold – and comparing it to my White's TDI.

So far only one thing has struck me. Although it's noisy as hell here in what are now becoming suburbs with underground electric service and lots of cell towers – I could by moving the tuning control around find a reasonably calm threshold.

When I tested the various coils on my 1.5 grain 18 karat gold bead – in air test – I got a very disappointing response. Needless to say having spent a nice piece of change on this thing I was disappointed! I then laid the test bead down the ground in the clear spot and found that the response was much better with the bead on the ground than waving the bead across the coil with the coil in the air. Clearly this requires further investigation and may be pretty good evidence for the old saw that PI detectors don't air test all that well but they do a lot better than the ground.

Standby for more data – and feel free to ignore it all if you see that is something I posted. Cheers to everyone - really like the new forum - look forward to learning a lot.

Dain ditches a GPX 4500 for an ATX --

If Garrett would stuff the guts of the ATX in a light land only shell and sell it for $1500 with the Infinium coil - they would have the US PI gold detector market at their feet. Who REALLY can justify a $5000 detector for hobby gold hunting?

I'm sure there are some folks whose expertise, experience and dedication can land them multi-ounces of gold and need the world's best gold detector to do it with. For the rest however, something else makes more sense.

Steve has said that a VLF detector is probably the answer for most of the non-pro crowd. That arguement has logic and merit. However, there has never been a really simple to use PI detector which offers "turn on and go" capability for North America. The Whites TDI machines were one attempt, but I suspect that too many knobs got in the way for many folks.

Garret could turn out this machine by summer if they got their ****s in gear but their failure to make a land version of the Infinium for all these years makes me doubt that they will catch this wave.

The TDI problem is the warble threshold. Since it is worse sometimes than others! I chalk it up to EMI.

Our neighborhood has all electric lines underground - don't know if that is part of it or not, also a cluster of cell towers nearby. All the VLF machines have problems at high gain as well. I really need to head into the desert a few miles and check it out. I am not carrying my cell phone or anything like that!

Twenty detectors have come and gone in 2013 and there are nine still in the herd. My goal is to get down to four or five, but it's tough!!! My transactions have been guided by some advice that a guy on 60 minutes got decades ago when interviewing an 87 year old woman who was the "Furniture Quuen of Omaha" or some such thing. She said "You gotta buy good and you gotta sell cheap". She also said "...and never forgive and forget" - but I ignore that part of the advice.

Here's a list of the "transients"

Tesoro

Inca

Sidewinder (nice little machine - the instruction book included how to open it up and set the GB and Threshold trimmers - Rusty Henry at Tesoro didn't believe me when I told him that)

Eldorado

Lobo

Lobo ST

Golden Saber (original - used this in Norway for a few years, then sat in the closet)

Whites

Classic II SL

IDX Pro (with Mr. bill's mods for threshold and GB- kept a similar Classic III)

XL Pro (neat, but just too heavy)

Goldmaster 3 (got talked out of this one, should have kept it)

Goldmaster 4b (pole mount)

GMT

Coinmaster GT (bought it to have something to hook a Prizm Bigfoot coil up to)

Compass

AU-52 (bad coil)

Gold Scanner Pro (this one recovered a $15,000 antique ring at a beach in Oman - the owners were very pleased - a kiss from the lovely lady and a bottle of excellent single-malt Scotch from the husband)

x-100 (hip mount)

77b

Pirate Pro

Gold Bug 2 (bought two and kept the one Imliked the best)

Fisher 1235X (had it for years and gave it to my brother in law)

Through a bunch of "horse trading" I ended up with a flock of VLF gold detectors and have played with them extensively on my property here. The soil is moderately mineralized and well supplied with hot rocks, cold rocks, nails, bottle caps, cartridge cases, shotgun shell bases, air rifle pellets, lead and jacketed bullets and countless fragments of both.

I claim no objective truths arrived at, just relating what I liked and had confidence in and what I didn't.

An original Lobo went early, the audio was just too week and the depth in discriminate was pretty poor, spoiling it as a dual purpose detector.

A GMT was the next victim, it wasn't as sensitive as my Goldmaster 4b and I just couldn't warm up to it.

A Lobo Super Trac was tempting but the auto only GB and weak discriminate function made it a gold only machine. A friend admired it and it has a new home.

I'm now down to four finalists.

The GM 4b is a chest mount and I like its sensitivity to both 1 grain and below fragments and it's depth on larger stuff. I have the regular 6x10 and the large GoldMax coils (both concentric). I will probably hang on to it for meteorites at least because it is easy to swing.

My Gold Bug 2 has amazing sensitivity and I am convinced that it will find crumbs better than anything else - besides, I got a smoking deal on it from a Pawn Shop and think I'd better keep it.

My MXT is a great machine and I am impressed with it's depth with the 6x10 DD coil. It seems to be smoother and just as deep in discriminate as in All Metal (although it doesn't ID to anywhere near that depth). It is much heavier than the next detector however and I probably will sell it on soon.

Last of all, I got a GB Pro, mainly after reading TrinityAU's posts about it. I think if I had to keep only one VLF for gold, it would be this one. I was confused at first why the main display in all metal was the continuous GB reading, but I am now understanding how that helps me know when to grab a GB fix and also how hot and cold rocks affect the GB reading vs how metallic targets like gold, lead, etc do so.

The next phase of detector wars - Pulse Induction - starts next week when the ML SD2100 I just bought shows up. I was looking for a GP 3000 when a deal too good to pass up on a hardly used SD2100 with 3 coils popped up. It will face off with my Whites TDI which I have had for a while. That part of the program will have to be done somewhere else since the EMI here is really bad and the TDI hates it here - the Sd2100 no doubt will as well.

Of course any sensible person would ask why I'm not out looking for gold instead of digging up my 3 acres
here in Gold Canyon (where there is no gold). Good question. I hope to remedy that deficiency in a week or so since I just joined a local club with many claims here in AZ.

"Something there is that doesn’t love a wall,

That sends the frozen-ground-swell under it

And spills the upper boulders in the sun,

And makes gaps even two can pass abreast."

Robert Frost nailed it.

All the New England farmers got tired of stacking rocks and moved to Oregon over the Oregon trail. "Abandoned New England Farms" were all the rage in the early 20th century for city folks to fix up.

Similar laws apply in most of northern Europe. Here's a link to an on-going story in Norway.

Link deleted since Findmall update broke all old links

Let's see -----

There's a recent American detector with iron volume control - but aimed at the entry level European market. The same company makes a couple of machines with wide iron discrimination ranges (although not as wide as the trio Keith named).

The same company's top two detectors are about due an overhaul - as is their Gold detector.

Hmmmm - maybe the maximum utility of VLF detectors hasn't been reached after all. Usable discrimination and target separation in gold nugget bearing ground where buried ferrous trash makes finding small gold a matter of digging everything - that would be something new.

Wow!

Thanks for the details Goldenoldie.

Can you estimate the total time spent swinging each detector?

I already love this forum. My ears still ring with the bass rumble of axes being ground on other forums.

I had the pleasure of a phone conversation with Ray a few weeks ago, and thought - how remarkable - in a field where the resource is non-renewable, there are folks who are happy to help others (who earnestly want to learn) to get their share!

I will no doubt need to get this Minelab "thing" out of my system one way or another, all of you will no doubt continue to help me refine my "solution"

Thanks everyone!

Rick

Based only on what I have read -

Older ML PI detectors apparently go just as deep as the newer GPX machines, but -

Don't pick up smaller stuff as well

Lack the smooth threshold tone of a GPX-5000

Sound off on some hot rocks

Are more vulnerable to EMI

Of course these are now used machines and cost many thousands of dollars less than a GPX-5000.

If you are pairing one of these older ML's with something like a Gold Bug 2 however - it would seem like you have things covered.

I just sold my extra Goldbug 2 to a guy here locally in Phoenix area. He came over yesterday to pick it up and brought along his SD-2100 detector. His is one of the old army green ones - he has it somewhat modified by adding an extra clip-on lithium-ion battery pack and an amplifier.

The result is a pretty handy one piece rig with no extra cords anywhere no External vest to carry heavy lead acid battery etc. On my property here it seem to have slightly better depth and somewhat quieter operation than my TDI.

A Minelab like that can be purchased used for $1000 or less - about the same price is used TDI. There is one huge difference however. If the TDI breaks whites will fix it for a reasonable fee. If the Minelab breaks – depending on how old it is – Minelab might not fix it at all – and if they do fix it - their repair charges seem to be awfully high based on what I have seen on the forums.

This is the main concern I have which is keeping me from working hard to find a good deal on a used earlier Minelab pulse detector.

I'd appreciate any feedback the Forum has on this, since I think I know where I can get an SD-2000 at a great price locally.

Here's what may be the same coil.

From http://bul-trade.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=9_11&products_id=134

Search coil S.E.F. DD for Fisher Gold Bug & Gold Bug Pro & Gold Bug DP - 38cm. x 30cm. (15" х 12")

$234 $156

Model: S.E.F. 38x30 DD Fisher Gold Bug

Shipping Weight: 2lbs

Manufactured by: DETECH

Nice adaptation for land use. Might be worth mentioning that a TDI has comparable performance (maybe not on the smallest gold) and is available used for well under $1000 ($600 - $700 is common). It can be mounted wherever you want.

Steve has one and - not saying that one is better than the other - it is a worthy alternative.

I look forward to further developments - maybe a water version of the TDI and a land version of the ATX.

Does anyone know if the TDI Pro is still in production? The Whitws website says "out of stock" - but it also says you have to get it from a local dealer.

I have no idea if their clothes are great or not, but their TV ads are really clever and darn funny!!!

Steve's post above is sound advice from someone who knows.

In case someone is now going to obsess about which VLF detector to get - well, since I am retired now and having a bit of time on my hands and a background in purchasing, I decided to amass a battery of used VLF gold machines and decide which one suited me best.

I will spare everyone the ongoing details of comparing:

GMT

GM 4b chest mount

MXT with 4x6' 6x10, and 10" DD coils (also a Bigfoot)

Lobo Super Trac with 6x10 and 3x7 DD coils

Gold Bug Pro with 5", 6x10 and 11" coils

Gold Bug 2 with 3x6 and 6x10 coils

Preliminary results of chasing all kinds of test targets indicate that it probably doesn't make a whole lot of difference which one you use. If you get the detector over gold detectable by a VLF machine, you will probably get it with any of the above. Of course there are differences between all the machine and coil combinations, but the main thing is pick one you like and learn it, then go to where there is detectable gold and get busy!

Meanwhile I will keep playing with my harem of detectors. I may even bore all of you with my "findings". There is not a bad tool in the bunch! I will share one surprising result however. The MXT with a Bigfoot coil has amazing depth in my moderately mineralized AZ dirt. It rivals the 6x10 both in all metal and relic modes.

Regarding depth loss in discriminate, my MXT seems about as deep in coin and jewelry mode as prospecting mode with my 1.5 grain gold bead.

Also, Steve wrote some time ago how is older GB2 would function deeper in iron reject if the threshold knob was turned up all the way. He indicated that newer ones didn't seem to do that. Mine is a Los Banos unit, S/N 42223 and it clearly does it. I also believe it is very nearly as deep with iron reject on as with it off.

Just bought a nice 2 month old Gold Bug Pro to go with my battery of VLF gold detectors (see my post above) for the great comparison. I'm interested in how the various machines do around iron. Both the Lobo ST and the GBP are Dave Johnson designs and it will be nice to compare how the discrimination works on the two machines. On the GBP you can tin in all metal and still see the meter, but the idea of running in discriminate with minimum or zero applied and listening to,the audio differences appeals to me. Will have to check how much depth is lost doing that however.

Interesting product and potentially a life saver. Note, a subscription and monthly payment is required for use - details on the link Steve provided.

I'll have fun trying to replicate his results anyway! You might want to read Keith's stuff about the blended tones of the Gold Maxx Pro. It gets a bit mystical at times, but I think many of us have underrated the audio information available from analog systems.

Anyway - neat forum with a quick feedback tempo - hope we can all work to expand it.

I will soon have a Lobo super track to play with and there's a couple things I want to explore with it. First of all I will be comparing it to the other VLF gold detectors I have on hand – a Goldmaster 4B, a Gold Bug 2 and an MXT.

Besides that however I want to adjust the ground balance pot for the discriminate mode to suit my local conditions here in Arizona. Keith Southern posted a video and some information about that over on the Dankowski forum – here's the link. Keith describes at length the things about the Lobo that have him comparing it to the G2 - which, of course is the same electronically as the GB Pro.

http://www.dankowskidetectors.com/discussions/read.php?2,48101

In addition I want to try some of the stuff that Reg Sniff pointed out in his lost treasures review of the Lobo super track when it came out. He noted several interesting things in his test of the detector. First of all he believed he could clearly hear the difference between Rusty objects and foil by the pitch of the response -these targets giving a higher pitched response than lead (and therefore presumably gold). Secondly when he put the detector in the alkali mode he found that if he passed the coil over the target several times hot rocks and iron targets would fade but more conductive target such as lead and gold would not fade. This allowed him to discriminate out these targets while operating in the all metal mode with its greater depth.

I will see if I can duplicate any of these results when I get mine.

Proud to make the first post on what I am confident will be the most interesting and informative forum about detecting for gold on the web. With Steve in charge I think we can count on lots of thoughtful content - and wild speculation - on gentlemanly discourse - and bar room brawls - all in spirit of good fellowship.

Thanks Steve.