Dubious

An interesting report by djm666 on another forum:

"I have been in the garden experimenting with the pinpoint on my NOX800 as I have found the accuracy to be poor at times, and have found something interesting.

A coin flat on will pinpoint to the centre of the coil. However a coin edge on will pinpoint to the left and right edges of the coil, and a coin at 45 degrees pinpoints somewhere to the middle left of the coil."

The Nox stock coil is unusually hot at the edges, so it seems to make sense that when a coin is on edge and presenting its largest profile to the side rather than center of the coil, this might happen. Of course, the difference in angle would diminish as the depth increases, so this should be less likely to happen with really deep coins. 

17 hours ago, GB_Amateur said:

I tried this technique while out hunting the last couple days. I didn't accept it as the end-all; I know better.  What I was tending to see (it's never easy, and I do mean 'never') is that for isolated targets it worked well.  However, isolated targets (for me, anway) are the easy ones to figure out.  For multiple targets near/under the coil it wasn't as helpful.

There are a lot of tricks in metal detecting.  In real world trashy sites your bag of tricks needs to be large.  Even then I doubt there is any 100% accurate method.  If you don't like digging then skip all but the cleanest signals.  If you don't like leaving any (potentially) valuable item in the ground then dig-it-all.  If you're like most you have to find your own happy medium in between these two extremes.  Fill your bag with tricks, but don't expect any (or even all together) to give you Superman's X-ray vision.

 

I'm waiting for the Nokta Invenio, which will allow users to read the dates and mint marks off coins before deciding whether they are worth digging (well, for its price tag, it should).

Until then, I'm afraid you are right. No magic methods, just learning how to play the odds. And lots of situations come up that no machine or user can predict. Usually, it means no coin for one's efforts. But the other day, hunting a trashy abandoned lot, I dug a very iffy signal and found a penny 2-3 inches down.  "Well, just a penny."  But when I swept the spot again, the signal was still there. A little more digging, and a copper penny, but still an iffy signal. A little more digging and I found two clad quarters. But I was still getting a signal.  More digging, and at 7" or so, I ran into an old rusty pipe, probably 3" diameter. I was tempted to try to excavate it, to see if I was picking up something alongside it, but the ground was hard and it was getting dark, so I just filled in the hole. I may go back. 

8 hours ago, Chase Goldman said:

Not clear when this is going to happen, though.  ML has been dutifully collecting data on known bugs such as the User Profile settings reset issue, but has also been mum on any timetable for a factory-based or user-released firmware update.  Since there do not appear to be any fatal performance-based flaws out there other than what can be characterized as annoyances (from ML's perspective, not necessarily the end users' perspectives), and taking in consideration a thorough and robust firmware test period so ML can assure the "fixes" solve the issues and don't introduce other unintended consequences, it could be fully several months or a year or more before a firmware update is released for production units and/or for user installation.

I have the 600, so don't have the User Profile bug. Probably, the most irritating bugs for me are the ones associated with latching pinpointing, disappearing volume on targets, much too bright backlighting, etc. Park 1 could be tweaked to do a better job with large on-edge silver coins (anomalous that it does worse on half-dollars than with dimes). Of course, the most important performance-related bugs we probably don't even know about, as you would likely need to know what the machine is capable of without the bug to even know it was there. 

Yeah, could take awhile, all right, since, as you say, there are no fatal bugs (almost better for existing owners if there were, in terms of getting timely updates); but ML will probably do it.  Hopefully, it will release firmware updates to owners of existing machines--and ideally periodically, as new things come to light; but, whatever it does, there simply isn't any good reason for ML not to incorporate bug fixes and performance tweaks into machines on its assembly line, as that will make for a more competitive product at little additional cost to ML.

In addition to the forum Classifieds, I see that six places are now selling the 800 on ebay at msrp, so looks like the Nox 800 is indeed finally freely available (except maybe at dealers which had built up long waiting lists).

After Minelab has had a chance to incorporate bug fixes into the units leaving its assembly line, I'll have to decide whether I want to trade my 600 in on an 800 ?

Hunting coins, in parks I usually use Park 1 but also a lot of Park 2. In places with a lot of old iron and rusty nails and not much modern junk, I often use Field 2. I would say that, to get an idea of what will work best for your site, find a likely target, then, before digging, try it with the other modes.

Yeah, I like the Nox, but not its TID or depth accuracy.  Usually the Nox depth #s can be taken as some indication--i.e., first couple inches, deep, or somewhere in between--but for me that's about it, and even then I am often surprised ? Like you I am comparing it to the Etrac, and more specifically to how they do on coins.  The Etrac, which generates separate FE/CO numbers, probably simply makes better guesses as to what it is looking at which, for coins, anyway, translates into more accurate depth information.

I have been trying out the F-Pulse, but having a lot of trouble with falsing, to the point that I wonder if the unit is defective.  When it begins falsing, I do the touch-to-earth-and-hit-button  to re-balance, but often 15 seconds later the falsing is back.

There have been some posts on various sites about experiments with on-edge coins, rolls of coins, stacks of coins, etc.  A lot of digital detectors seem to produce anomalous results when confronted with high-conductivity coins not displaying the expected profile.  I'm sure that, on the whole, digital processing is superior; but this is one area in which the old analog machines are probably harder to fool.

What I have gotten from reading the postings here and on other sites about the Park 1 "coin on edge" issue is that (1) it's not an issue with Park 2, but at the price of a little depth; and (2) the issue may provide argument in favor of digging certain one-way signals.

No scientific tests, but on a related note, in places with a lot of old, iron trash and nails, I have had more luck with Field 2 than any other mode in finding silver Mercury dimes.

It's all about the odds, so the best approach is probably just to test out the modes for yourself on actual hunts (including switching modes on found targets before digging), to see which is likely to get you the most finds in the places you hunt. 

I use 50 tones on everything, for maximum information, so wouldn't have the extra tone adjustments even if I had an 800.  With my 600, the only feature of the 800 I have sometimes wanted is the adjustable backlighting.  The 600's backlighting is too bright for at night. But that's an issue only at night; and it can be fixed with a layer of red film.   

It's probably not possible for firmware updates to improve the operation of the Nox by much--it is what it is and overall is pretty darn good for the money. But it would be nice to get an update to fix the bugs in the pinpointing function--sometimes "sticking" (even when the coil is raised off the ground), and sometimes asymmetry as to axis (pretty good from side to side, but often sounds for long distance from front to back when it shouldn't). I've compared it with the Etrac on the same targets, and the Etrac doesn't do either of these. I suppose the latter problem is due to other objects nearby, but, again, the effect is asymmetrical with the Nox and not seen on the Etrac (even with the slightly larger Ultimate coil), which is better behaved with exactly the same targets. (Could be the Nox stock coil, I suppose;  it will be interesting to see how the Nox behaves with other coils, when they arrive.)

These issues are not deal-breakers by any means but they are enough to make me hold off on buying the 800 (I presently have the 600) even when it is readily available for long enough that, hopefully, Minelab will have fixed the code. Like others, I don't have much faith in Minelab ever providing firmware updates for machines already in the hands of customers, but I expect it will tweak the code as it discovers bugs, with respect to the assembly line.

On 5/26/2018 at 6:44 AM, SittingElf said:

That is exactly the problem. The EQ can have a relatively fast swing speed when using wired headphones or speaker. Having to slow swing speed using 40MS headphones defeats the high speed capability of the detector. That may not matter to most, but it does to me, because that is one of the best features of the Equinox. Allows for covering more area quicker when there is no lag.

You can swing as fast as you like to find the target; then, to make sure it's where you hear/see it, just slow down a bit so that the 40ms is not an issue with that. Sure, using a wire is the gold standard--not just for speed but for sound quality as well, not to mention battery life :)  But, bluetooth aptx at <40ms works reasonably well, at least for me. 

Just slow down the swing speed a bit once you have a target to examine and the 40ms delay should not be an issue.

1 hour ago, Yzman said:

No need to wait for bug fixes, the manual ( page 66 & 67) states that the Equinox’s software can be updated via USB. One of the many selling points that convinced me to buy it ?

That's the theory. The reality may be different. Minelab has historically not been very forthcoming with after-sales updates of any kind, in any form. Have any owners of the Nox received, accessed, found or been notified of any updates?  I'm sure Minelab has a list at this point, and is probably incorporating some of them into the units now being built.

Minelab got a lot of run out of it, but the shortage had to end at some point, and I guess that point is now. Already, I have seen used 800s selling for below list, and I expect some dealers will be willing to give discounts now (or soon). I have the 600, which was available pretty much all along, and I don't regret the purchase as it has probably done everything that the 800 could have done in the places I have hunted. Still, I may spring for the 800, to get those additional adjustments and modes. I'll probably wait a bit, though, to give Minelab the chance to update the firmware with bug fixes, if any. 

I also have and use the Sennheiser cx 6.00 earbuds and also the Avantree Audition Pro headphones.  I like them both, and no problems so far. 

22 hours ago, Steve Herschbach said:

The main problem is people confusing absolute depth with relative depth. In the real world targets are rarely all by themselves. Once you put nearby trash into the equation, recovery speed starts to be important, and the denser the trash and ground mineralization, the better Equinox will do compared to BBS/FBS. I have said this a couple times before - if a detector finds a coins surrounded by trash at two inches that another detector cannot find due to target masking, then the machine going two inches is the deepest.

I can see this all being a question if you know of places that have never been detected with BBS/FBS. But if a park has been hit for decades by BBS/FBS and is no longer giving up the goods, then the depth question is moot. It is only targets hidden by masking that are likely to remain, and Equinox is the tool to get them.

Unmasking is where the Nox shines, all right, especially around iron; for me, it does find coins the Etrac can't see (and yes, usually not that deep).  Otherwise, in cleaner ground, I still believe my Etrac does better on high conductors, mainly because of more accurate id and depth info.  But for the targets they see, the Nox usually seems at least as deep as the Etrac, even on high conductors (hard to be sure, given all the variables).

As for nickels, using the tricks others have suggested, I am doing a little better at rejecting pull tabs, but not that much better--the ratio is still daunting...

Not sure why an Australian company wants to subsidize the American military, and not even sure it should be allowed to... When I buy an 800, if I ever do (I currently have and like the 600, and frankly doubt the 800 would work any better at finding things for me), it will be after the excitement has subsided, and I will probably find similar "non-military" discounts available. 

I have had the pinpoint fade and also the pinpoint tone "stick"--tone sounds continuously until I leave and reenter pinpoint mode. Neither have been a serious issue for me, knock on wood.

The pinpoint fade reminds me that, outside of pinpoint, I sometimes encounter fade when detecting a target.  That is, I seem to hit on a weak target, but as I swing the coil back and forth, it diminishes in volume, becomes a ghostly echo and fades away.   A bug in the signal processing?

I agree about the Avantree Audition Pro headphones--I like them. For earbuds, I have the Senheiser CX 6.00, which I also like.  Both are aptx low latency, easy to pair, and work well.

The 6" coil is actually not too bad (for Minelab), and good news that it is ocming soon; but the wireless module and headphones are outrageously overpriced. Is Minelab trying to punish folks who bought the 600? Well, fortunately, we have Amazon...

I would think the manufacturing facilities would be temperature and humidity controlled, wherever they are. Well, after replacing a bunch of heads with this screen issue, ML will no doubt see that more care is taken.

So, apparently the United States IS Minelab's largest market for coin/relic detectors. That's what I would have expected. 

And it also makes sense that a lot of American buyers are price conscious. Many detectorists are retired and on fixed incomes without much disposable cash. 

Which country is the largest market for Minelab detectors, then?  I would have thought it was the United States...

On 4/12/2018 at 11:18 PM, Terry Soloman said:

. . .

Would YOU buy a Multi-Kruzer, or a Equinox 600?

. . .

I have the Equinox 600 and would not trade it for the Multi-Kruzer, given my favorable experience with the Nox.  But I have not used the Kruzer and would like to hear more about how the Multi-Kruzer does up against the Nox.  Price and feature-wise, they are both targeted to the same niche and if any machine gives the Nox real competition in that market segment it will probably be the Kruzer.