Geotech

12 hours ago, Dances With Doves said:

Do you think they could make the Nox better by  using specific coils like say a coil made more for  saltwater use  in the beach modes?

Any time you run multiple frequencies (as a beach mode would) the coil is, by necessity, a compromise. A coil optimized for high freq nugget hunting isn't optimized for low freq deep silver, so there could be optimized SF specialty coils. The nice thing about a wideband machine is it is less finicky about coil parametrics and easily corrected for in software, assuming you know what coil is being run. And ML has a coil ID chip in each coil that does that.

Steve's reply is very accurate. MF trades off raw depth for other benefits. For any given MF detector, it will go slightly deeper in a SF mode depending on the target. Ferinstance, in MF mode the White's V3 will detect a nickel & quarter very equally. In 2.5k-only mode it gets the quarter deeper than MF but the nickel less; in 22.5k-only mode it gets the nickel deeper but the quarter less.

Also, an MF machine is a wide-band design and will tend to be noisier than a dedicated SF machine which is narrowband. An MF machine run in SF mode is very likely still wideband and not as potentially quiet as a dedicated narrowband SF machine.

Just recently I consulted with a company for the same kind of project, but they were looking for really high-dollar items, not just flatware. We got it up to the prototype stage before Covid hit and they suspended the project. An amazingly challenging design, we were looking for titanium which is the most difficult metal I've encountered. Even flatware can be tough, depending on the alloy it can be durn near invisible to a detector.

1 hour ago, Dances With Doves said:

Maybe Whites will have a Kodak  miracle like what happened today in my city of   Rochester.A good  thing for  our country.

Well, White's did have a reputation for on-premises pharmaceuticals.

23 hours ago, Knomad said:

The upgrades I had in mind are not generally software, and would give reasons to stay with the brand until the new models keep them.

And the price of Robotics has come WAY down so production could greatly improve with low investment.

As for no politics on the site, those were Facts regarding the politics of manufacturing , not politics for politics.

SO, I guess No One has Contacts that have funds and like a Good Noble Challenge.?

Knomad, you have a pretty simplistic view of what it would take revive White's. Automating some of the production will do nothing to make them more competitive; actually, even with some pretty run-down facilities and lack of cutting edge production methods White's could hold its own against the competition, at least where production costs and product quality were concerned.

What White's failed to grasp is the importance of engineering. There was a long history of chasing talent out the door which resulted in a discontinuity of critical information. If you were to buy White's today, where would you get any engineers to design new products? They're all long gone, and you can't just go out and hire experienced metal detector engineers. I used to tell the White's it takes 2-3 years for a new engineer to get up to speed on the nuances of metal detector design, especially anything high-end. They didn't listen.

The best hope for White's is what happened to Fisher... some existing detector company buys the name and the designs, and continues a few of the better models under the White's brand. Anything else makes no sense.

Very sad to hear about Reg. I visited him in Pueblo and he visited me at White's and helped make the TDI-SL a much quieter running machine. After I left White's we communicated for a while on a new PI design for FTP (not the Impulse, a prior project) but then he said he was done, his hands were no longer working and he couldn't handle small components. I had been meaning to check back in with him but I waited too long. Reg was a nice guy who gave a lot back to the community and I will miss him.

9 minutes ago, auminesweeper said:

Well if that is the case there is No chance of the company being rescued or bought as a going concern,

There's still a chance, dunno how much of one.

9 hours ago, phrunt said:

I can only assume that since the factory is now shut the employees are no longer on the payroll, or at least most are gone.  The ones still there, especially engineers if any would see the writing on the wall and be looking elsewhere to secure their future employment.

3 weeks ago there were 3 or 4 people in admin to deal with the sale and other lingering work, a couple of people in repair, and a couple of people in shipping. Everyone else was let go. There were only 2 engineers left near the end, all the others had seen the writing.

On 7/18/2020 at 12:01 PM, cudamark said:

Maybe the best techs from White's can join forces with the best techs from Tesoro to create something truly awesome! Opportunity is knocking there if someone can take the reins and run with it.

Jack Gifford is dead, and all the White's engineers are gone.

The control knob wires plug into the main board and are simple to unplug and swap.

3 hours ago, Steve Herschbach said:

But other than that, has anyone seen or heard anything?

They have several interested potential buyers. A portfolio of assets is being created for the interested parties to review and see where to go from there. Can't say much more than that for now.

It used a technique called "off-resonance" which is in the BFO family but could distinguish ferrous/non-ferrous and even discriminate. Some 10-15 yrs ago Allen re-introduced it as the Intex "Cache Probe" via Kellyco. I bought one just to try it out. It has a skinny stainless probe that you push into the ground, it pretty much has to touch the target to respond.

Allen Hametta of the "A.H. Pro" detector made a probe in the late 1970s. It's the earliest pinpointer-type device I know of. Compass made a more classic style pinpointer I believe in the 80's and White's followed with a boxy unit.

19 minutes ago, havingstl said:

Would the unit lock up permanently or after enough resets it would operate again?

With most units flipping the power switch a few times would usually get it to kick on. Some, though, would lock up every time.

After the first 200, the TDI used an Atmel micro that had a tendency to randomly lock up. When you turn on the TDI it would just squall. A lot of units were shipped and the problem didn't show up until after some usage. I found a nearly pin-compatible PIC micro, rewrote the code, and we had a drop-in replacement. Until I got that done we swapped out a lot of units. Sometimes more than once. The SL started out with the PIC so it never had the problem. I was never able to figure out why the Atmel locked up.

11 hours ago, havingstl said:

I've read a lot of those thread but never can quite get a clear picture of voltage an original TDI pulse scan can handle.

The limitation is the LM386 audio amp. There is a 12V version and an 18V version; White's should have used the 18V one, if not then even 14.4V is pushing it. However, there are also a couple of 16V caps on  the audio stage so anything over 16V is probably not doing them any good.

3 hours ago, Steve Herschbach said:

A machine I really wanted from Whites... DFX running at 48 kHz able to use GMT coils. The ability to run at a separate lower frequency would be nice, but not really needed. What I wanted was the full range SignaGraph tied to 48 kHz operation, with both raw and normalized VDI options. The SignaGraph is a true visual display breakthrough that went underutilized by White’s. I prefer it to the Minelab versions in some ways and having a nugget detector with all the tuning and discrimination options of the DFX would have been something, especially if paired up with MXT ground balancing. The V3i at 22 kHz is close though, so I’ll have to be happy with that.

During my tenure I defined a new 2-frequency product that would be hi/lo switchable. The low was 6+18 kHz and the high was 18+54kHz. When I left the engineer designing it seemed to have it working pretty well (on the bench) and the SignaGraph was especially impressive. Sometime later he also left the company and the product was obviously never released. I've never heard what happened with it.

32 minutes ago, Steve Herschbach said:

Here is a tiny part of a long and complicated story....

All true.

When the V3 was released the China hobby market was almost zero. I think it is still almost zero as metal detecting in China (as I recall) is illegal.

Reorganizing means finding a buyer. Probably someone will buy it, either in pieces or as a whole. Whether that means the name will live on depends on the buyer(s).

8 hours ago, jasong said:

Is that something you can share once you find out? Or official Fisher business?

Strictly personal. I will leave it to White's what I can and cannot say.

8 hours ago, phrunt said:

Well that explains why I kept reading the Whites pinpointer was great on tiny gold and I found it wasn't that good at all with my Garrett AT performing about the same if not better..... I have a TRX, I needed to get a Bullseye II.  I didn't know there was two! Bugger, I bought the wrong one 🙂  I even thought mine was either faulty or fake as it didn't meet my expectations.

The TRX will typically detect under 1 grain, usually down to about 1/2 grain and gets coins at 3-4 inches. The Bullseye II is good down to 1 or 2 grains and coins to 1" or so. You may get lucky and find a Bullseye that will hit under a grain, or unlucky and find a TRX that will not.

On interference, luck also plays a vital role. Any model pinpointer is capable of interfering with any model detector. All detectors and pinpointers run at a frequency that has manufacturing variance, and it's the variance that makes one TRX interfere with one MXT, but not another. I specifically recall testing the TRX with several MXTs and saw no interference, but I knew then as now that wasn't a guaranteed outcome for everyone.

5 hours ago, Reg Wilson said:

A shame to see the end of a company that pioneered hand held metal detectors, and the people involved in its history. The reasons for the demise of this once proud company are myriad, but what craps me are them that were once involved and recompensed for their involvement in that company are the first to sink the boots in when the crap hits the fan. 

Rubbish! History records their involvement, and despite protestations the facts have been recorded.

If directed at me, I hold no grudges towards White's. As I've said, in 40 years of employment it was the funnest 6 years I've ever had. My first real detector was a 6000/D and I still use a V3. I always had hopes that someone would get things turned around before this happened and I wish it had been me.

27 minutes ago, jasong said:

I'm just curious, anyone have a rough idea of what it would cost to buy out White's patents, trademarks, tooling, supplies and other business related stuff aside from their real estate if they did shut down?

At this point, it's too late in the game with too many competitors moving the right direction already for me to be interested. But I'm just curious, because 5-10 years ago I might have given it some serious consideration, and having not been a business person in my lifetime with experience in such sales, I'm curious what such a purchase would cost?

I'm gonna head over this week and try to get that answer.