Geotech

While the components can handle the higher voltage, Tony makes a good point in the other thread: be mindful of the extra heat generated. A lot of people have successfully run the SL at 14.4V but any higher than that requires some careful diagnostics before you call it done. Otherwise you could end up cooking the circuit.

Jeff, you have exactly nailed my biggest 'peeve' concerning all these separation tests: they simply don't reflect a realistic hunting style. I mentioned this in a video Calabash did showing coin/bottle cap separation. Using super-fast super-short sweeps he showed that the Deus II would ignore the BC and detect the coin. But right at the end of the video he inadvertently did a couple of normal sweeps over the combination and the Deus barely made a chirp. If, using normal hunt sweep, you don't get a good enough response to say, "Hey, what was that?" then it's a fail. I'm not picking on Calabash, it seems that everyone is doing these tests like this. But nobody does normal hunting with a 3" sweep at a blistering speed. Yes, it might be used for zeroing in on a suspected target, and for that these test results are useful, but you need the normal hunt results first. When I test separation I use a 1 meter sweep at 1m/s set by a metronome. My preferred target arrangement is a silver quarter placed between 2 transverse-oriented 16p nails, all at a 3-1/2" depth. I reduce spacing until the detector can no longer issue 3 distinct target responses. A lot of people test by placing the nails longitudenally but this becomes a test for a co-located composite response instead of a separation response. If you understand why nails give a double-beep when swept longitudenally then you will understand the mechanics of this test.

They probably have a better PI design in the ATX, but it's overweight and desperately needs a new body. The V3 was a marvel of software development but the hardware was sub-par. I doubt anyone will be able to take the existing design and do much with it.

The only detectors that White's made that are worth continuing are the MXT-based designs (GM-24k, MX-Sport, MX5, etc), the TRX pinpointer, and the TM808. Garrett is making the GM-24k and I expect they will not make any other MX models. I think they will never make the TRX because it adds nothing to their already-dominant position. The TM808 would be a good addition, maybe they'll eventually add that one. Otherwise, I'm at a loss as to why Garrett bought them in the first place.

The TDI-Pro-Oz is identical to the TDI-Pro except it has a normal mono coil instead of a dual field coil. The DF coil has some lift-off issues on severe ground.

I designed the TDI-SL and deliberately made the PCB to fit either the metal case or the Beachhunter case. I had the factory build 3 prototypes, they tested fine but mgmt wasn't interested. A few years after I left they finally released it. There are some mods that people have done to the SL which slightly improve it for nugget hunting. I doubt the BH would benefit as much. The bigger battery is probably the best upgrade.

The TDI Beachhunter uses the TDI SL board which I designed to take 20V, even more if you swap out a few caps. My prototype has fewer controls, I don't remember exactly and I'll need to dig it out to see.

I have an original prototype I built at Whites, it's a little different than what finally got released years later. I haven't thought about selling it but might consider it.

I know this is an old thread but I would not recommend using the TDI Beachhunter underwater. Both the coil and the case are notorious for developing stress cracks and leaking. I would consider it splash proof at best.

On Sundays the place is usually deserted. When I used to visit I was often the only one there on weekends. When the factory is running on Saturdays they all park off the left side of the photo. My office is the first window to the right of the main entrance. Haven't seen it in 2 years.

I've moved from Oregon to Republic, WA and am looking for anyone familiar with prospecting in this area. Ferry County has produced somewhere around 4 million ounces of gold and still has active gold mining going on. In particular, I'm looking for places that would be good test grounds for metal detectors. Feel free to respond on the forum, or via PM if you prefer. Thanks, Carl

Wish I could say what's going on but I have no idea. I'm as much in the dark as everyone else.

There are two "balance points" to consider: the angle balance point, and the sweep balance point. The angle balance point is what most people are considering, and the ideal location is at the top of the handle. When you grab the handle the detector should have a rest position of about 45°. The most perfect point for sweep balance is right where the elbow ends up. That's where most people pivot their swing. Any net weight forward of the elbow creates a moment of inertia that must be overcome by torque. Even a detector that has good angle balance but is heavy (like the CTX) still requires a lot of torque at the reversal of each sweep because there is considerable mass forward of the pivot point. A detector like the Deus has practically all its weight at the far end of the rod so it feels nose-heavy (poor angle balance) but still requires less torque (better sweep balance). Showing a detector balanced on a pole halfway down the shaft says "poor angle balance" and suggests that the sweep balance may also be poor, unless the overall weight is exceptionally low. I suspect that an XP GoldMaxx with the box mounted under the elbow would have better angle balance and sweep balance than any of these newer models.

US detectors are calibrated to US coinage, at least the ones I'm familiar with. For example, a US silver dime & quarter have the exact same alloy but different phase shifts. If the detector sees a phase shift that represents a dime it then uses the signal strength to estimate depth. If the phase shift says "quarter' with the exact same signal strength then the depth estimate will be deeper than for the dime. Depth is calculated from a look-up table and/or an algorithm which are determined by air-testing several coins. Obviously if you detect a non US coin then depth is a guess. But many targets like pull tabs and Minies and even a lot of rings tend to be pretty close. Other targets may not be, especially iron that has a non-ferrous phase shift. And, of course, ground conditions can affect depth readings.

It's my understanding that for u/w you have to run a clip-on antenna from the pod to the coil, same as with Deus 1. The bone-phones either do the same or simply plug in to the M12 connector on the back. Underwater Scuba comms and model submarine remotes use the lower VLF band which probably doesn't have the bandwidth the Deus needs. I suspect they continue to use the 2.4GHz ISM band which only travels inches in seawater, ergo the need for wires. The plug on the bottom is likely a vent plug. For diving it obviously needs to be sealed, for weatherproof it can be unsealed for breathing. This is important for altitude changes, especially on flights.

😢 *Sigh* I read that Kellyco spiel and just shook my head in disbelief. Sadly, it appears to have been written by someone here at FTP. I honestly don't know what to say, other than I feel like I owe everyone an apology.

I'm 100% with Steve on this. I don't care for wireless coils for the exact same reasons. For every coil I want to buy, I'm actually buying another detector. Also don't care for a cable inside the shaft, creates more problems than it solves. Yeah, those clean shafts look cool but that ain't enough to make metal detecting look any less uncool than it is.

Those are the pics I've seen.

Flex Multi Frequency. My guess is that it's like Equinox in that there are different frequency blends for different modes. The pod is obviously waterproof and even has what looks like an M8 or M12 connector, making me think that they have a hard-wired coil option for water hunting in addition to wireless coils.

Something similar has already been done. The White's VX3 had the exact same hardware as the V3i but the features (all software) were considerably stripped back. However, all those features are still in there and can be progressively enabled with the right passwords. I think there were 4 levels: the VX3, 2 levels in-between, and the V3i. The thinking was that when a customer got good with the VX3 he could then "buy up" to the next level for, say, $99. It would have had the benefit for White's that a new customer would be less likely to overbuy and get frustrated with the V3i, and for the customer that they could buy only as much as they wanted. The "upgrade" was never implemented, mgmt didn't like the idea. Please don't ask me how to do it; it required running the unit's serial number through a passcode generator that only White's had, and I'm certain that even that has been lost.

David is in poor health and is mostly retired, though he continues to dabble as he can. I do have some unsanctioned side projects but they go slowly.

Yes, I've been reading this thread. No, no one else at FTP has likely read it, or will. As usual the criticisms are largely deserved. Here are some specific responses. The original topic was about canceled products and I think that has been addressed. Products like the F2/F4/F5 have been replaced by the F11/F22/F44 and the F70 by the Patriot. I suspect the CZ3D is getting canceled because it doesn't sell. It's an expensive hand-built detector that has low margins. FTP has 3 metal detector brands but one engineering dept. At least in that respect, it is not a disjointed effort. I have designed products for all 3 brands. [History: The old George Payne Teknetics bought the Bounty Hunter brand and released some new BH detectors (Big Bud & others) until the whole thing went bankrupt. John Turner of El Paso (of Jetco and Techna brands) bought the BH/Tek assets and produced BH detectors. This is where BH got its reputation as being crap. Eventually FTP bought BH/Tek and cleaned up BH quality and reintroduced the Tek brand. The intent was that BH would be sold through big box stores and Tek through more traditional dealers. FTP then bought Fisher, primarily for the utility locators. Fisher quality was also crap and FTP cleaned that up. FTP continues to make products under all 3 brands as they still have different sales channels. In some cases they share circuits and software, in some cases not.] The Fisher web site is an embarrassment. A few years ago it was professionally redesigned but never published. I just checked, the new design is still sitting there so I don't know why it has not been published. The new one looks pretty nice. Yes, the new 12" 00 coil was designed for a new detector model which has been in development for several years. I haven't heard anything about it in quite a while. There have been suggestions that "all we need to do" is revamp the CZ, digitize it, add wireless, make it waterproof, improve deep iron ID, faster target recovery, and add blendy-bleedy audio. That's called "a completely new design." FTP has been working on new multifrequency projects for many years but I don't know what is currently happening there. On processor speed, processors have been fast enough for quite some time. Target recovery response is a strong function of the filter implementation (some in analog, some in DSP) and how the audio is processed. I recall back in the day when I used an XLT... target separation wasn't bad for those days but I found the menus to be sluggish. Then the DFX came along with double the processor speed. The menus were sure snappy, but target separation was the same. I'm sure they used the same filter and audio algorithms. It's a matter of recognizing what needs to be done (fast recovery) and designing the filters that will do it. Back then fast recovery wasn't on the radar but depth was, and there is some trade-off between the two. This is pulling from another thread, but I saw the well-deserved feedback on the new GB2. Yes, it was done because the weird ground pot went obsolete. I had 2 proposals; first, replace the weird pot with a normal 10-turn pot and keep making the GB2 more-or-less as-is. Meanwhile, design an all-new GB3 with a digital back-end, auto tracking, and wireless. A co-worker and myself even built a prototype that worked pretty well but needed the usual polishing effort. It failed to generate any interest. Currently I am not involved in any hobby detector design except for the Impulse, and that is not my primary focus (it's security products). Like everyone else here, I can also see what is happening, just like I did at White's. I have no delusions about where we are at and where we need to get to. Like at White's, it's particularly frustrating that I work here and can do nothing about it. Whatever happens will happen. But I will say we are not intentionally driving for Tesoro Cliffs. [Addendum about White's: When I was at White's I could see clearly that there was no planned succession beyond Ken's funeral, other family members sure weren't the answer. There was some discussion on an employee buyout but it fizzled and by the time I left the writing on the wall was in large bold font. A once-stable Engineering dept. became a revolving door of new faces and no continuity of knowledge. The company was set up to fail, and the plan succeeded.]

MF with 5 frequencies is what I heard.

I had a GTI2500 a long time ago. I used it once relic hunting with the 12.5 imaging coil, it's the only detector that has ever injured me. It was so heavy that, after a 1 day hunt, my shoulder had a sharp searing pain and I could barely sleep that night. However, at the time (15 yrs ago or more) it was the deepest all-metal mode detector I had ever used. Disc mode, not as impressive. I eventually sold it. I had, and still have, the 2-box attachment for it. I remember testing it and not being very impressed with it. The best 2-box I've used is the TM-808, which is probably a rarity now that White's has closed. It's one of the few models I think Garrett should strongly consider producing. A better choice for void detection is the Discovery TF900. Good luck finding one of those.

FBS is the same as BBS. V3 MF was never patented. I doubt Apex used BBS tech. The rumor is*, NM named it the Lightning because, instead of a vibrate option, it has a conductive handle that delivers an electric shock when you go over a good target. Especially noticeable when hunting in salt water. *Because I'm starting the rumor.