Dances With Doves

48 minutes ago, Rick N. MI said:

The Apex seems to have a fast recovery when sweeping back and forth over a coin in the video. The audio was fast and sharp. I like it but I need the waterproof one. Nice to see a video with it out detecting a little bit. Need to see more videos of hunts with it and need to hear the Apex as it sweeps over a found target and as it sweeps thru iron. Garrett did a good job! I hope the waterproof one is light and based on the Apex with added features.

I would like a waterproof  one too. Great  audio. It would be nice to have a waterproof one in the summer. 

1 hour ago, Chase Goldman said:

No mercy, Steve.  NO MERCY.  I know these Garrett guys barely know what multifrequency is, but these guys are video detecting professionals so I hold them to a higher standard.  Steve Moore has to know that this video is part marketing, part entertainment and us detector nerds are hanging on every single factoid we can squeeze out.  Heck, we're sitting here taking and posting screen shots of the thing and running the audio through spectrum and lie detecting analyzers to tease out the truth.  Steve needs to make sure KG knows how to operate that new fangled contraption and not to spew gibberish out and confuse us.  He should have edited it out or dubbed over it like a spaghetti western.    [Disclaimer: for those not sure, the preceding "rant" was satire]

I  take it those 2 guys in the first  Apex video are real hunters  and not  pro actors.

5 hours ago, GB_Amateur said:

I used to try and clean up the Stinkin' Zincolns but they just wouldn't.  Biggest mistake USA mint ever made, IMO, and they stubbornly continue 38 years later even as 1 cent is insignificant.  I keep count of them (and pulltabs as well) as they can contribute to my site understanding.  (And I see you do similarly with the copper Memorials.)  I also weigh them just to make sure I'm not missing something good (like a crusty Indian Head!).

I can only imagine what it was like ~30 years ago when many sites were still loaded and detector manufacturers were making breakthroughs.  Obviously some of you here were fortunate enough to live those days.  Must have been quite exciting.  I spend much of my detecting time thinking about what went on, etc. so I can hopefully concentrate on the more productive parts of a site.  I'd rather go slowly and carefully over the remaining hotspots than race over all the ground like the parks' ground mowing contractors do....  I wish I could be pulling old coins out like a professional bass fisherman landing the lunkers, and maybe there is a day or two left for me like that when I find the right site.  But in the meantime there's still fun to be had, IMO, just in the anticipation that the next target is going to produce the "find of a lifetime".

 

 

I  wish we could take them  to the scrap yard and scrap them for zinc. That      would help.

8 hours ago, Tom_in_CA said:

Nah, I'm too stubborn.  Besides, if I made the switch, then Brian ("cal cobra") wouldn't have anything to rib me about.  And then he'd be saying "I told you so".  I can't let him do that.   Haha

 

But seriously now :  I hunted recently a few times , at an  iron-ridden gold rush site here in the sierra foothills of CA.  They had Nox 800s, and I was using the Exp. II "tank".   Their target counts were higher.  So on a few occasions, I had them flag signals , of iffies,  so I could compare.   And I HAD to admit that on some of them, I would not have heard them or dug them.   And they would turn out, sometimes, to be deep camp lead, or some little doohickey that I *SHOULD* have heard.     Other times it would be iron that fooled them .  But, that was to be expected, since we were all "grasping for straws" and chasing any hints.

 

Thus yes, for  a ghost-townsy iron-ridden spot, the Nox is superior to the exp. II.   It's never been a secret (long been admitted) that there are better machines for iron-see-through.   That's why I've always packed a Silver Sabre or Bandido for when I encounter such locations. 

 

But I'm still of the opinion that for other venues, the Exp. II would win various duels, for various types hunting and locations.  

In a pulltab infested spot the explorer probably has an edge.  I    hunted   a nail infested fairground where I got my record of 17 silvers in a day with my explorer and got 8 this year in 1 hunt plus over 15 Wheaties (  where explorer was     struggling to find a coin) with nox.I am in the gold coin club too.Found it  in a hunt where Mike Moutray   joined us on his road trips he took.2 1909  quarter eagles in 1 hole.He was in the first explorer   ads.in   the magazines.    

On ‎5‎/‎26‎/‎2020 at 5:25 PM, GB_Amateur said:

As mentioned previously, after rereading Dick Stout's Coin Hunting... In Depth book over the holidays I took his advice and stepped away from my standard sites to find new ones.  It seems to be working (thanks, Dick).  Statistics on that later in this post.  Last week I went to one of those 'new sites', a century old park, and in the first 2 hours I found 83 cents in modern coins searching along a road and around a crushed stone parking lot that had previously produced only one old coin -- a beat up Wartime nickel ('Warnick').  I decided to move to a picnic area for the last hour, and as you can see in the picture, I was rewarded.  (Sorry for the overexposure on the Warnick.)

One of the Buffies showed up first, about 5-6 inches.  Next was the Merc at 4-5 inches.  The other two nickels followed (neither more than about 4 inches deep) and the big surprise was the Indian Head, also only about 4 inches deep.  My previous Personal Record ('PR') was only two old coins in one day's hunting.  Note that I don't count Wheat pennies in this category.  My single day PR there is 27.  Needless to say I was quite pleased.

Oh, the 22 cartridge was found next to the above mentioned parking lot on a previous hunt.  Given that it's in a muni park (and we don't have gang problems..., etc.) I assume this was dropped long ago.  It's possible it was dropped after the park opened by a hunter who was getting his gear together after getting out of the car, before exiting the park on foot into the nearby woods.  The lead bullet appears to have 3 rings, one smooth and two serrated (if that's the correct word).  Can anyone put an age on this?  It was oriented vertically about 6 inches deep and sounded as sweet as any silver dime I've ever found, with the TID centered around 27.  Except for the 'P' on the back of the Warnick, there is no mintmark on any of the other coins.  The IH is 1903 and the Buffie dates are only partially visible.  I think one is 1916 and the other 1924.  None of these is scarce, but they still get counted in my 'other old coin' category.

A little about the park.  As I mentioned it was established over a century ago.  I knew of its existence but figured so did every coin hunter within 100 miles.  Surely there was nothing left for me....  But another thing I've learned is that there is no such thing as "hunted out".  I've put 52 1/2 hours into hunting this park so far (all in 2020) and there's still more uncovered area awaiting.  Here are some numbers to mull over:  my 'other old coin' finds per hour is 0.27 for this site compared to 0.08 for all other hunted sites since beginning of 2017.  8 of the 14 finds are nickels.  Meanwhile Wheat pennies recovered per hour is 0.21, compared to 0.26/hr for all other sites starting in 2017.  And here is a sampling of my trash finds:

These are from 12 1/2 hours of hunting this park.  All but a couple of the ring-and-beavertail pulltabs had Equinox TID's in the modern USA coin regions:  12-14 (nickels) and 19 and above.  If the nickel and pseudo-nickel target ID touches 15 I don't dig.  My custom high tone is 20 and up to make sure I notice Indian Head pennies.  (Note from the photo: I count Zincolns as trash and that's what the pictured discs are.)  The 14-18 region is typically thought of as pulltabs, but those in the photo (exception of a couple r&b's) all sounded and TID'ed like nickels.  The aluminum screwcaps TID 21-23.  Crown caps can be in both nickel zone and Zincoln zone (elsewhere, too), depending upon composition.  I did dig more trash than this, mostly can slaw but also some aluminum foil and the usual few bent nails, square nails, copper wire, etc.  This park is absolutely loaded with the old pulltabs, and the broken off beavertails are the worst.  It got to where I was requiring the TID to at least flash a 13 for me to dig 'nickels', and still you see what I pull out.  Unfortunately I later dug a pure 12 and it was a nickel.  😪  I wonder how many of those I left in the ground.

If you're still here I hope you don't mind one more statistic:  for common coins of denomination 25 cents and less (so not counting Wheaties or other old coins, but including Zincolns), the fraction of nickels among common coins since beginning of 2017 (but not counting this site) is 15%.  At this site (again, not counting the eight old nickels) is 26%.

In summary, I'm finding a lot of old coins compared to my other sites, but not more Wheaties.  I'm finding a lot more nickels (relative to other coins) than my other sites.  I'm finding tons of pulltabs in the nickel zone.  How does all this tie together?  Simple:  the site has been hunted by detectorists cherry picking the high conductors and ignoring the nickels because they don't want to dig pulltabs.  Of course they missed some Indian Heads (probably didn't want to be bothered with Zincolns either) and a few silver dimes.  Hopefully I'll find a higher denomination silver coin, but even if I don't I'm happy with the oldies that have been showing up.

 That is a great hunt.We changed it up years back by going to a park  about 35 miles away.I think Vince P. did a book on it on  hard hunted parks for whites.The park is in Batavia N.  Y. and all the  explorer users did really  good.   The one time I hunted with my nox I only got 1 wheatie and a 40's nickel. My worse hunt ever there.My friend snuck out a indian with his new nox. The challenge of metal detecting has   it's ups and downs.

11 hours ago, Steve Herschbach said:

Was posted by Steve Moore of Garrett...

“Here's a compilation of some recent field testing with the Garrett ACE Apex metal detector. Most of this is urban testing in North Texas with several field tester friends (Rusty, Wes, and Shawn) plus a little digging with George "KG" Wyant in Kansas. I run through a few of the settings and show some of our early finds. We all test changing the channels so four Apex units all set on Multi-Frequency can hunt in close proximity. Stay tuned, because some of these field testers will probably release their own videos (better quality no doubt!) in the weeks ahead. Note: we were not out to show deep digging. People will test that later when released. But we did avoid digging a lot of trash on these extremely trashy home sites. Thanks to KG and his buddies for getting permission to keep the well pump relic!“

I  like  the tightness of the signals.It  is   like my At gold but tighter.      

15 minutes ago, Tom_in_CA said:

good play-by-play and pix !

 

Tom, It is nice to see you  on this forum .Why don't you give the  Nox a shot again since it has already made you money.Bring it to your  relic spot and you can use your explorer as a pinpointer since  your so   attached to it   .  A  good  hunter like you with a good machine like the nox will bring good results if you give it time.

7 hours ago, Steve Herschbach said:

Excellent finds, beats out my mornings 1948 Wheatie for sure! 

I only  got 1.70 in the shallows in Lake  Ontario.Not one piece of  jewelry.Should have brought my wetsuit  to see if my spot had a cut to the clay .My   First time out for a water hunt  this year.       

48 minutes ago, phrunt said:

I think if they gave the Vanquish Nox coils and the Nox Vanquish coils they'd have a really good set of coils for each detector and most people would be pretty satisfied with the selection.  The only thing I would want over that combination is a little 6.5 x 3.5 epoxy filled solid coil for both, if that existed for the Vanquish and  Nox I'd be so happy.  The Nox would be a killer gold detector with that.  If they made a solid option to the V8 coil for the Vanquish the small solid and the v8 solid would keep gold prospectors happy.   Pretty easy for Minelab to do that and it maybe a way the counter the Apex by making the Equinox coils for Vanquish and vise versa.

A 3by 6  coil for   Nox would be great. It would be great for prospecting   and    tot lot hunting and small turf gold. 

That a 25 year old detector is still being sold today is  amazing. I would put the  Gold Bug 2 in a Gold Bug pro   housing  with many of it's  features  added to it for $599 and it would sell big.

59 minutes ago, phrunt said:

What I think is it means a whole lot of other detectors are overpriced and outdated and just won't sell anymore!  These are a bunch of impressive detectors for the price.  I'd happily use any one of them although I do prefer multi frequency detectors so that puts two ahead of the others, then I love coils so that puts one well head of the others.... but then again it's mostly got so many coil options due to how old the detector actually is.  Minelab's big mistake in my opinion is locking down on aftermarket coils, this is going to give the Apex an edge over the Vanquish even if it doesn't perform as well overall when the aftermarket manufacturers start pumping out Apex coils.  Having the right coil for the task can be just as important as having the right detector.

I don't understand what they're trying to prevent by locking down on aftermarket coils, it would be different if they had a big range of 10 or so coils and wanted us all to buy them, but they don't and they're not going to..... As the competitors catch up on detector technology perhaps they'll realise their mistake as coils maybe the thing that gets people to switch away from Minelab detectors.

 They could have made    more coils for the xterra.  The  after market coil makers got around the chip in coil. Coiltech   Has permission to make coils but they now charge $263  for 6"  digger coil. To much for me.You can get 7"Mars 3kz. coil for much less and probably better.          

On ‎5‎/‎25‎/‎2020 at 1:55 PM, Steve Herschbach said:

Teknetics Patriot, same machine as the Fisher F70, $399. Unlike the machines above, there are at least 26 coil options available for this machine. All F70 coils from Fisher, NEL, Cors, and Detech will work on the Patriot.

The F70 was a very under appreciated machine, the equal of the F75 in most respects but always overshadowed by its more expensive sibling. See what Dave Johnson says at this link.

 When I think of the f-70 I think of mud puppy from a other forum.His  way with  words is unique  .Even David Johnson liked  his writing skills I think.He cut off  the fins on his     f-70       machine  to make it more sleek.   He is into clad with a screwdriver at warp speed   .He  said f-70 is perfect machine for that type of hunting.

36 minutes ago, Steve Herschbach said:

Simplex = No multifrequency option or selectable frequency options

Vanquish = No selectable frequency options, no ground balance

Apex = No recovery speed setting

And let’s not forget, both Simplex and Vanquish lack...... Hybrid Audio!! 

I have a feeling that after the Apex release that minelab will pull a new rabbit out of the   hat.Nox  multi  Iq2 or     vanquish  pro with ground  balance  plus all nox frequencies without waterproof.

22 minutes ago, Steve Herschbach said:

Lake Tahoe beaches are loaded with magnetite and there are some hot rocks also. Most VLF detectors are getting 50% of depth if they even work at all.

Here is a picture of pure magnetite sand streaking a beach at Tahoe. And a magnet I simply dropped and picked up - a solid golf ball of magnetite. It's places like this where you need a PI detector. A VLF is only scratching the surface.

On average lake Ontario is not as bad as that  .It is when a storm hits and separates the tan  sand from black sand that my xterra would overload.  We  also have charcoal looking hotrocks that can be the  size  of a softball.We   did have  a coal plant a few miles away.We also have a river coming  into it from Penn. close by.A Florida hunter from the gulf coast could not believe all the black sand stuck to his magnet and the big hot rocks.He brought one back to  Florida  to show his hunting buddies.

46 minutes ago, Steve Herschbach said:

I was asked up front on the upcoming ATX "should we put it in the Infinium box, or the Recon Pro housing." I said Infinium, they went with Recon Pro. Driving up the weight and cost. I was fine with that but my efforts at lobbying for another light weight dry land version have been ignored for years, except for a couple pats on the head and a "we've not forgot about you" type statements. Bah, humbug! Too late Garrett. I'll get a Fisher instead!!

You have the passion.You were in that type of business.You have a great forum.      They should pay more  attention to you.Macro came out of nowhere because they paid attention.

3 hours ago, Steve Herschbach said:

Never would have thought of that! 

how is the mineral content in lake tahoe. Is it bad?I   heard that the land on that lake is highest price in country.Canandaiugua lake by me is  second so I hear.Canandaigua is where Susan b Anthony had her trial. I found a steamer tag 1865-1889 from a ship by that name that I think burnt.

14 minutes ago, palzynski said:

 80 grams makes an important "sweeping  ergonomy"  difference when this weight is located at the end of the shaft ( for me anyway … 🙂 ) . Actually  I am trying to find the best Vanquish detector/coil combination for general detecting for me and perhaps this could be the 540 +the V10 coil ( to be confirmed on the field ).  Concerning the money, as I sold my Equinox with 2 coils I can afford to test all the Vanquish coils … 🙂  

But I would have preferred that the 540 at 440e was proposed with a V10 coil as stock coil rather than the V12 which is the bigger one . Or that ML offers the choice between the coils , as XP does with the Deus or the Orx .. I dont know why ML did this V12 choice with the 540 , this while the 340 and the 440 are proposed with the V10 coil ...weird ...

But probably the most interesting thing I learnt from this test is that a"low cost" V340 at 240e seems to perform as well as much more expensive machines, ( for coin hunting on mild soils I mean)  , so at this price it is clearly a bargain …  And even the 440 at 340e will be a very good choice , except for those who need wireless headphones who will go for the 540 ..

I think the 7by10 coil is a great all around coil that would be    easy    to  swing.Put that on a 600  and 25$ less then 11" coil would be a nice  combo . I would like it  for fresh water hunting.

39 minutes ago, Steve Herschbach said:

Well, looks like I'll have my first new pulse induction machine in over two years. I swore off getting anything new after I ditched my 7 lb Garrett ATX and 7.2 lb Minelab GPZ 7000 in a fit of passive-aggressive protest over heavy metal detectors. The new Fisher Impulse AQ at a well balanced 4.2 lbs and hopefully under $2000 is close enough to filling the bill for me that I will get one as soon as they are available, which finally looks like very soon!

Might be a nice Lake Tahoe machine.

30 minutes ago, Steve Herschbach said:

With the exception of the battery cable I really like the look of this detector. And after swinging a 7 lb Garrett ATX this 4.2 lbs of well balanced detector is going to seem like a dream on my arm. I ditched both my ATX and my 7.2 lb Minelab GPZ 7000 a couple years ago in a fit of passive-aggressive protest over those heavy beasts, and swore not to buy another pulse machine until somebody made something more in line with the ergonomics I desired. The Impulse AQ tips the scales at a little over 4 lbs, but that is largely because of the 12" round coil. A smaller coil is a distinct possibility, as is the ability to belt mount the battery. In any case, good enough for me and a huge improvement of what I'm used to. The price remains to be seen, but it has a good chance at coming in under $2000, making the new Fisher Impulse AQ one of the best contenders so far in my Under 4 lb, Under $2K Challenge

 Looks like a nice machine.I  use the infinium in the great lakes and it  does  well there in the heavy black sand areas where the gold   likes to hang out.If they put the  ATX in infinium housing for     1200$ it would sell well.

7 hours ago, Jackpine said:

The Bounty Hunter will surely come after you! 😱

I meant    it is not worth taking chance for them to take ring after they got  insurance and not report it to insurance company.

I   heard  most class rings these days are insured.My friend tried to make contact with a lost ring owner and did not get a        reply  from him. He probably got a other one with the insurance   . If you take a ring that was lost after you got  the insurance I think it is insurance  fraud if you don't notify them.    Not worth taking a chance since founder might have  called   ring maker.

5 minutes ago, phrunt said:

I have tried various recovery speeds, I honestly didn't notice any difference going lower other than the audio changed, I didn't find any difference in finds so I just went back to defaults.  I know technically slow recovery speeds should be deeper and fast better in trash, I don't have to worry so much about the trash in most of my spots and the depth didn't really seem to make a difference when I went lower.   I tried lowering on deep targets to see if they improved at all no difference. Maybe more beneficial in worse soils I guess or I've just not found a target that's at the exact right depth for it to make a difference who knows.  I'll keep experimenting though, I like experimenting 🙂   I can see faster recovery speeds being beneficial in trashy areas so I'll play more with that.  Same with the Vanquish, I found no benefit using Relic mode (deepest mode) to find deeper targets, Jewellery mode did the trick just fine.

It seems like a lot of things metal detecting, what works in one location doesn't in another so people always have to work out what works best for their locations.

If the vanquish is doing better then the nox you   can't argue with results. If it handles Emi  better then nox then that could make a big difference on targets   . The coils could    also be  better then nox for emi.  I Would like to see you with the apex in your coin fields.If I was in charge of Garrett I would send you one.

6 hours ago, Monte said:

No argument here as I also found the vanquish 540 to be a lot of fun to use, with both coils, and the 5X8 DD is an excellent general-purpose coil for most places, including those with low-to-modest amounts of annoying Iron debris.  And it is powerful, as well, providing very nice audio in the excellent ML-80 headphones.  I also preferred it to the EQ-800 and this is a nice complement to my other performance=proven models.

Monte  I wonder if the new coils handle the emi better?   Never  tried vanquish so my opinion does not matter for that machine.    Seems like a great  deal for that type of machine.If that machine can handle emi in spots nox can't that is a big advantage.

Hello   Phrunt.Do you ever use a  recovery speed of 4 on nox?

8 minutes ago, Steve Herschbach said:

Yup, what Jeff said. It has nothing to do with the target id information being presented in an audio or visual fashion. It’s is all derived from the same base information, and if one is inaccurate, the other will be also. An aluminum beaver tail that reads like a dime will also sound like a dime, a common occurrence with single frequency in bad ground, but does not happen to me with multi.

  With my xterra 70 many pulltabs  would up  average to coins. In places where  I  didn't mind digging more targets or when the  depth of  up average was where their would be old  nickles or gold rings  I did   not care to much.If the pulltabs and coins were both very deep because of soft ground,that up average thing the  machine did made it tough when you were focused on silver coins or you were cherry picking  .I like the nox Id. It is good enough for me to know it's a coin.