Alluminati

Ah I thought it looked like some type ferrite ring or magnet, or a piece of somebody's Ace 150 lol. I didn't know you guys did that, cool.

Maybe that letter opener thing is Religious or Masonic. Check it out some more, it's really cool.

It's got some age if it says Sterling instead of .925.

What is the yellow thing in the green scoop?

I wouldn't by a White's for $50 less then Equinox because of the Deus lite. 

In reality it is really hard to find a reason to buy a White's.

Think about this, even if the Sport was priced right at $350, would you swing it with the Equinox and the Deus out there? (I've used the Deus in the water for a long time, for some reason folks forget it's waterproof.) Just because it was cheap? I don't think so. $50 won't be enough of a price difference unless the consumer is completely uneducated.

$350 would be a good way for White's to try and intercept a few customers, stomp all over the Ace market, do what you're good at they say, build the customer brand loyalty with the beginner, we all know how for that goes.

I say this because price is really only a small aspect of performance. If overpaying for something doesn't get you depth, why buy it?

If I ran White's or Garret today, I would be all over that beginner market. Consolidate the ridiculous amount of models and give them a "good" machine at a "beginner machine" price.
The easiest (cost effective) way for them to react is to just get rid of that beginner lineup and slash the price of the ATPro and Sport.

That is the only way Garret and White's is going to put any heat back on Minelab and remain profitable. (If they are profitable.) Garret could be in good shape from all the ATPro they sold, I can only speculate, depends on their costs. White's however must be hurting, that company must just be running on just credit or fumes by now. I doubt they will sell enough sport to pay for the injection molded tooling, let alone make a profit. Although they are a small company, so who knows. 

When I review what I have written and compare my strategy for Garret and White's to go after the FTP market, I realize it might be a bit naive. First Texas has branded products in box stores all over the world, well in Canada they do. A beginner is more likely to purchase from a box store if it's close then to "look for a dealer" online in most cases. I remember when White's wouldn't even advertise prices, those days of customer entitlement are long gone.

I apologize if this seems like a bit of a tangent, TL DR White's should eat the Ace market with it's multi freq Sport before Garret realizes it needs to eat itself. Can't put the Genie back in the bottle now.

Thanks for the update,

1 minute ago, Dubious said:

Alluminati, ok, I missed that--more shades of FBS--although it is hard to see how unamplified harmonics could be enough here.  As for the waveforms, I think we're both going to have to look for Geotech's screen shots. I'm not an engineer, but I think he's right that you can't voltage couple the signal.

I didn't realize those threads are on his site, I was looking here for them the other night.

I'll have a look there tomorrow.

11 minutes ago, phrunt said:

Sometimes it's best not to worry about how it works and just be satisfied that it does, I doubt there is another manufacturer of detectors out there that wish they didn't have it in their lineup, it's as simple as that.  Just enjoy the machine and leave the technicalities to Minelab and their competitors to bicker about, not that they currently have a threat from any other manufacturer in my opinion. 

Although perhaps Nokta in a few years might come out fighting.  If it didn't work as well as it does, nobody including the competitors would even care about multi IQ.  I hope other manufacturers prove me wrong and come out with detectors that absolutely blitzes the Minelab lineup.  We as consumers benefit if that happens.  I'm about as far from brand loyal as you can get, if someone makes a better detector within my price range, I'm swinging it.

Their slogan is "We change peoples fortunes", Well their detectors sure change their fortunes with the sales they're getting of their detectors, I am sure the other companies wish they were getting the sales Minelab are, it's not their marketing or gimmick slogans about their technologies doing it, it's the performance of their machines and word of mouth about how well they work.  I won't pretend to understand how any detector works, I just know the ones that work best for me.

Just my humble uneducated opinion, take it for what it's worth....

As a final note, I'd rather the next greatest machine come from anyone else other than Minelab, we need the competition.  So I'm rooting for Fisher, Teknetics, Nokta... anyone!

Sometimes we just want to discuss metal detectors, the interesting parts.

Why does everyone bring up Nokta? They aren't going to do, I hate to say it but neither is White's or Fisher, just based on probability. This has been going on now for close to 30 years. Minelab has had the best discrimination technology this whole time, since 1991.
Maybe some patents will expire, maybe the best chance is new tech, all the while the gears are still turning at Minelab.

Tesoro will have a mulit-freq out before White's or Fisher or Nokta. It will have to be more then a label, the proof is in the finds.

To be fair, it was XP Deus that obsoleted all other single freq detectors and made a nice compliment to a FBS/BBS. Now with the Equinox and it's Deus like adjust ability,  it pretty much covers both roles.

I can only speak for myself, but I didn't start buying Minelabs based off of marketing, I buy them based off results in the types of conditions I detect. 
At the time, I noticed most the best finds were being made by Explorers. 

27 minutes ago, Dubious said:

Well, then, we need a detector with multiple frequencies, that uses 3 of them at a time, that can cover everything from deep silver to the smallest gold ?

As for dividing the power, I had (apparently mistakenly) thought that the Equinox overcame the problem by transmitting bursts of sine waves at each frequency, each burst after the other.  That is, five time slices, one for each frequency, so each burst of sine waves could be at full power, with the sequence repeating. But maybe this "sequential" approach wouldn't give the same multi-frequency effect.

I guess you didn't read the explanation from Minelab linked a few pages back? Still speculating?

5kHz - fundamental.
10kHz - 2nd harmonic
15kHz - 3rd harmonic
20kHz - 4th harmonic
40kHz - 8th harmonic

Those square waves posted by EL NINO a few pages back look like they were made with more then 2 frequencies. They are too flat on top.

Welcome.

Maybe peruse the Comparison forum for detector revieiws.

Come to think of it, I've never filmed myself either. Hmm.

Seriously though, it had never occurred to me to doubt Draytons finds, I just don't get that vibe.

The problem is more with the fame whores on youtube, everyone is a star, I guess we've come to the point of expecting video evidence now. Most the local detectorists are on youtube and I think one of them is cheating. I don't know for sure if this particular guy is cheating, it's just a gut feeling, he throws off all kinds of odd tells.

In the same way I can totally believe another detectorist finds like Garys.

The problem with demanding a video, is a video can be cheated too.

Spanish ships really did sink, I myself have figured out to find gold in my crap town so no doubt somebody can find Spanish treasure if they put in the time and the conditions are right.

Where is he getting all this Spanish jewelry in the first place? See the emeralds in some of that stuff? That type of jewelry can be tested to verify its authenticity, it doesn't just appear out of thin air. If it was already found, its been documented.

Have you noticed he doesn't just hunt in the ocean, but in the swamp on the other side of a jetty? That is the kind of thing a real detectorist figures out, the boat was blown over the jetty in a hurricane.

So we can agree to disagree on this one, I'm totally fine with it.

Drayton treasure.

5 hours ago, phrunt said:

If what you're saying is correct Geotech, every single Equinox buyer in Australia is entitled to a refund on their purchase, even if they wait a few years before doing so they can get a full refund for the deceptive advertising

https://www.accc.gov.au/consumers/misleading-claims-advertising/false-or-misleading-claims

NZ has a similar law so I too could go and refund mine now.  I would imagine other countries probably do too.  It would be extremely silly of Minelab to be lying about what the Equinox is doing with it's frequencies.

I'd be annoyed Minelab deceived me, but I would be satisfied in keeping the detector as I really like it ?

 

I wouldn't call your lawyer just yet.  Square waves could be made by combining sinusoidal harmonics of the desired transmit frequency. Fourier could be used on the receiving signal too, which could be capable of receiving information not transmitted.

You can strike a bell with a hammer once a second (1Hz) and still make a multifrequncy recording. That 1Hz recording of a bell strike can in theory completely fill the band of an ideal microphone that has a response of 20Hz-20kHz. If my equipment is good enough, I could "EQ" (filter) out any information I don't want and just listen to frequencies of interest.

You could then make educated guess as to what the bell is made of by how it sounds.

A zinc penny sounds different then a copper penny when dropped on a table, electrically speaking the same thing happens, each coin has a certain frequency it wants to resonate at.

You could identify copper and zinc pennies from a audio recording by just listening to the high frequency "ring" that the copper coin has that the zinc coin lacks. Filter out all the low zinc penny information out of the recording and what you have left is just noise made from the copper coin only.  This device that will let you hear copper but ignore zinc. 

Which brings us back to the transmit side of things, the hammer. Looking at this on a scope is the same as a picture of a guy swinging a hammer. Can you look at that picture of a guy swinging a hammer at a bell and say a recording of that event doesn't have this or that frequency without even knowing what they used to record the event? Of course not.

It is interesting that the Solid State stereos that the Minelab creator used to make a few years back still go for $20,000-$30,000 USD. That says a lot because as a bit of an audio snob, I wouldn't pay more then $50 for any used Solid State amplifier used for music. Seriously, don't want it. Vacuum tubes all the way, for various reasons, which mostly center around HARMONICS.

While there are lots of audio"fools" out there, in order to sell more then a few amps like that, there must be something to it. It at least demonstrates his mastery and understanding of harmonics. Audio is an extremely tough market.

Halcro dm10 Preamplifier + Halcro dm 88 Monoblock Amplifier 

(Northeast) Consider using one of the Gold modes and dig 1-10, assuming no pendant of significant size.

The gold audio is a little better at catching targets in your peripheral, the best numbers from the machine are in this mode with the horseshoe engaged.

A necklace may read 1 when you set the sensitivity to 1, however it does have the potential to flicker higher numbers when running regular or hot sensitivity.  Based on actual sensitivity and random target orientation you may see 4 or 5 make an appearance, even the odd double digit.
I agree that a 1-2 TID is a good if you want that narrow of a range and keep the sensitivity moderate.  (at or below 20)
1-4 TID might work out better if running sensitivity >20.
A consequence of this is a 1 has the potential to flicker -1, not a big deal, you're looking at the average. As long as say 3 out of 4 swings is a positive 1, the odd -1 is nothing to be concerned with.

This would apply to the other modes too if you want to bin the targets into narrow ranges, moderate sensitivity will give tighter numbers.

Good thread

7 hours ago, kiwijw said:

Isn't Gary still using the CTX 30 30 there?

JW 

He is still using the CTX it appears.

16 hours ago, dsrtdwg1 said:

arrowheads

I was reading this on my phone at work yesterday and I thought gee maybe this guy knows something about what Gary finds this season when all of a sudden I heard this big wooshing sound, turns out it was the joke flying over my head.

Weird.

I was just thinking how I'm starting to hate Gold Rush and wished there was a new detector show on. I then smirked to myself while thinking that I don't even care if they swing Garrets. Careful what you wish for.

16 minutes ago, Geotech said:

Park MF is 7.8k+39k.

Beach MF is 7.8k+18.5k.

Nice little nugget there.

How about Gold and Field, how do the "weighings" change these numbers, or is that done after the fact?

Thanks!

Holy smokes right on!

Oh really? What's the best thing you ever found? lol

Frig sakes I'm still watching it, how about a spoiler alert next time ?

Break it open, there might be iron inside of it.

The pendant is nice.

4 hours ago, Sinclair said:

Boy, that looks freezin' ..

I've found 5-10 of those floberts - they ring pretty strong for their size and fall through the scoop almost every time

You know I was going to say I though it rang up high, I think I saw 10 or 15 flash a few times which is a bit higher then the usual 22 long casing.

All that glitters is cold, or something like that.

Here is today's loot. The Quarter is a 1973 Mountie, a coin celebrating the R.C.M.P. from 1873-1973.

The penny is no big deal, other then it is a 1964 -silver era. This was another one of those high conductors that up averaged in the surrounding iron, you could not walk away from it even though it was hard to recover in the surrounding trash. It's good that this machine doesn't seem to iron false in the high numbers, meaning that coin stuck out like a sore thumb.

The gaudy earring was another big high conductor, turned out to be junk.

Last but not least is kind of an interesting find. It appears to be a "6mm Flobert" round which was a cross between a 22 short and a 22 BB gun. It could date back to the late 1800s, though I'll assume its a little newer. A quote from Wikipedia says it "managed to combine about all the disadvantages...[of both] into one generally useless cartridge" lol.

I agree the Equinox would be more Europe friendly.

Yes, the Safari did seem like it was tuned for high conductors and was actually pretty good on small fine coins.

The sun popped out, the temperature finally got up to zero C, wind 17-28 km/h. That is about as good as it's going to get this weekend, I'm going in.

Expect me to report back later with massive amounts of treasure.

I think you are projecting again.

I looked up your VX3, apparently White's neutered a Spectra. ?

"Whites VX3 Metal Detector combines the premier performance of the Spectra V3i with the turn-on-and-go simplicity of the Coinmaster line" Zing!

The Equinox is pretty sweet now that you mention it.