RobNC

32 minutes ago, Digalicious said:

Dilek was asked a similar question on a live stream a couple of years ago. Dilek mentioned that instead of making a lot of profit on highly marked up detectors like the competition, Nokta profits on high sales volume.

Then again, Nokta's "Mission Statement" so to speak, was and still is, to provide well built, high performing detectors at a much lower cost than their competitors. 

As much as I admire and respect the technology that Minelab has brought to this hobby, I truly believe that their empire is crumbling. I think the final blows to Minelab will be the two new Nokta PI detectors, as well as the successor to the Legend. The only way I can see Minelab surviving, is if they invent some new technology that is leaps and bounds above the competition. Failing that, it wouldn't surprise in the least if in a couple of years, Codan sells Minelab...and quite possibly to Nokta.

Hmm. Anything is possible in these times. I believe the major problem with Minelab is they have always been on a high horse and have the mentality they are the best and accordingly feel free to charge crazy prices. With the way things have went up in cost the last year or so that really puts the brakes on a lot of people spending extra. Meanwhile, Minelab has kept on raising prices but yet we see now a significant price reduction on their newest detector the Manticore. That was unexpected.

No doubt Minelab has proven itself time and time again over the years setting standards others couldn't achieve. But while they were doing it they were also creating some adversaries. Their arrogance precedes them. And that arrogance is not pretty. It appears Minelab enjoys trying to sue people anytime they get too close in competition. A cowardly tactic. Would I want to see Minelab go completely away? No. But I would like for them to stop being so greedy. Their arrogance level and greed approaches and surpasses that of White's at their peak. But we know how that ended, huh?

Minelab has had a good run, they've lined their pockets with gold at the expense of consumers. The Equinox 700/900 and manticore ushered in a new line, one that doesn't make use of the Equinox 600/800's headphones and other accessories. This of course is another money grab/proprietary garbage tactic they have used many times over the years and its getting old. There is no reason why the headphones from the EQ600/800 can't work in full AptX LL mode UNLESS Minelab specifically CHOSE to not allow it and went a step further by only whitelisting their headphones. I learned this when I bought the Xterra Pro recently. Had I known that beforehand I would not have bought it.  Stuff like that has me done with Minelab. I like my EQ800 but no more Minelab for me. I wish them well, but tend to agree with you, their gig is about up.

On 4/21/2024 at 6:57 PM, JCR said:

  
 Because I have the Versa, it will be my primary unit for deeper targets on my red dirt sites both with and without iron. I will still use the Legend with the LG 35/13” coil too. On low mineral sites set up right with the big coil & using Dt it can be deeper than the Versa on some targets. I’m glad to have both rigs.

Hell, who wouldn't be happy??!! The best of  both worlds. The Legend for rough and tumble stuff down in the muck to dig everything when you were bored, and the Versa for cherry picking places first. Seems like a winning combo.

Can you tell me if that Rutus Versa is actually better than the Legend by a large margin or is it just my infatuation with the Versa at the moment that is blinding me. I don't have the Versa but lust for it badly. I do have the Legend, The Equinox 800, and the XTerra Pro. The 3 Stooges.

On 4/21/2024 at 4:20 PM, EL NINO77 said:

If I were to compare the Rutus VERSA with other detectors... it has a really good performance on highly conductive targets...,, on medium conductive targets as well,,, and on low conductive targets it has a performance .. which can really exceed the best detectors on the market...... regardless of the price class...

 

Hey Sir.. You're just making it worse on me with this Rutus Versa lust condition I've developed. That thing is awesome!  Only negatives are price, availability, and a small-ish screen. If the videos can be trusted on its seemingly supernatural ability to separate, it's a real gem of a detector. That right there is what I've always looked for and never found.

Sadly, like most things it may look good but you never know until it is in your hands. Will you mesh with it, understand it, like the feel, the sound, etc. So many things come into play. Youtube can sometimes be a terrible influence.

I remember a long time ago I got my hands on a new Minelab Explorer S. I never found a single coin with that thing. It just didn't make any sense to me how it worked, and all the flute music really threw my mind for a flip. It was a somewhat heavy detector too but I was younger then and could swing it with no problem. Due to its cost I really didn't want to use it for fear of tearing it up. So it was sold (at a loss). Looking back today on that situation it's clear I was a moron back then who had no patience and a bad case of being unrealistic to think it would magically find things because it costed more. Much younger, stronger, had hair on my head, and stubborn but still a moron nonetheless.  I don't want to repeat that lesson again, so I haven't launched out to buy a Rutus Versa no matter how much it costs or what I must sacrifice to get it. My mediocre sites don't warrant such money to be spent at this point in time. If things align right, and I get an inflow of cash (very unlikely)I would gladly obtain one. But for now it is a detector that looks appealing and something to drool over.

On 4/14/2024 at 10:18 PM, phrunt said:

Nokta were excellent and replaced my coil so now I've got a working pulse dive again sorry, I threw the broken coil out and now need the pinpointer/handle part.  

You naughty, Naughty Man! Your brute strength has offended the Nokta people.. LOL

Yeah forget that Fakebook crowd and the other "social media" platforms like TikTom, TweeterX, Insta-grass, WeChoke, TeleGoon, and Snapchump.

Half of what is wrong with the younger folks today is basing their entire lives off that poison. The other half is pure laziness.

Well, it sure seems they are serious about going up against Minelab. It's hard to deny the fact they are being competitive with the pricing. For the price they have on the FindX($139), it is very appealing to new people just thinking about detecting. And the FindX Pro model for $179 adds waterproofing on the entire unit. They are including a stainless digger, wired headphones, AND a carrying bag.. Man that is insane.

How are they even doing this?

Spec-wise it isn't a bad machine at all. It lacks advanced feature manipulation but does include automatic and manual ground balance.  A very simple turn on and go machine. 15khz frequency. Wonder how it will do?

The only odd/weird thing I see is charging on the regular FindX. Someone would have to unscrew and remove the search coil to charge. That may be a problem or failure point over time. The FindX Pro is like the Legend for charging, meaning there is a separate port integrated for headphones also.

21 minutes ago, phrunt said:

I've read occasionally the speaker, and other times the battery area, especially with people that changed to aftermarket shafts, not sure how valid that is.

Mine spent 3 days at the bottom of my spa pool with a rock holding it down, left turned on, it went flat obviously but after 3 days I took it out and charged it up, and it was fine.  I did that while under warranty.   The water was 38 degrees c too, 100 degrees f, which I believe warmer water like that may cause leaks more than colder water as rubber shrinks when hot.  I did it a few times throughout its warranty.

That was quite the test. Maybe currents have something to do with increasing leakage possibility? Ya know ocean salt water plus washing waves/current pulling and pushing.

I believe your Equinox is considered well done at this point with that slow cooking you did on it. LOL

On 4/20/2024 at 7:58 AM, palzynski said:

Very interesting and a little surprising , it looks like from the 2 videos that the Versa is the winner of the test with a clean and clear signal on the Mercury at 10inches ..  While the Manticore signal is weaker and a little scratchy and the Legend behind the 2 others .

Of course it is just one test and this needs to be confirmed with other targets , for example bigger coins like a 10g coin for example ...

Hi Slavomir , you have tested the Versa , do you confirm this depth difference between the Versa and other detectors ? thx

From what I've viewed on the Versa, it is one heck of a detector. It seems to offer excellent performance. The problem though? it would cost an arm and a leg to get one over here across the pond. I really wish they would make it more readily available in the USA. They would sell a lot of them. It is a VERY interesting piece of equipment.

For what it is worth, my hard line in the sand on detector cost is $900 US Dollars. For that amount of money it best do everything except dig the target. Yep, I know that is unrealistic but just how I am.

7 minutes ago, phrunt said:

Can it catch it up to the Manticore for depth though as this video makes it look terrible by comparison, seems a lot of messing around when you have other detectors that natively hit the same depth without doing anything, especially switching into a tricky to access mode to check a target? whenever you get a suspect deep target.

I read a lot of people saying the Legend is a bit of an 8" max detector and many comment on it's not very deep compared to others, the same thing I found with my Simplex and a guy I know in NZ sold his for that very reason, although that was very early on in the firmware updates, he didn't give it much of a chance.

The Deep Target feature sounds more viable to use than Beast mode.  I think the naming of that was a poor choice as it makes it sound like it's something super powerful and perhaps got people's expectations too high.

"seems a lot of messing around". Agreed. But the Nokta Pirate Dude was seemingly enjoying it.  *shrugs* LOL

"I read a lot of people saying the Legend is a bit of an 8" max detector and many comment on it's not very deep compared to others" Well, depends on what the target is I guess. I've already found a coin down in excess of 8 inches. However it was in wood chip tot lot, not dirt and it was very wet in the bottom. Realistically though 8" would be deeper than I want to dig in this red clay rock soil. If it will do that consistently.

Phrunt I am totally in agreement with you on the Deep Target feature. I also think they should have renamed it to something more fitting like "Target ID boost" instead. It makes more sense. Heck this should have been in there a few versions back as an option.

In my humble and odd opinion I believe Nokta realizes the Legend is falling behind a little bit versus more expensive detectors like the Manticore and Deus 2. But hey, that is OK. How can anyone that is reasonable expect a lower $$$ detector to operate like a $$$$ detector?  I sure don't expect that. But I do expect it to be stable and would love to see the Target ID's tightened up even more. Refinement, not more power. More power isn't worth a poop if you can't use it due to instability and distracting chatter/false signals. Clean up the processing of signals, refine it. It will be even more of a formidable detector against others. Power alone is worthless, but separation and better processing/discrimination would be in my book GOLDEN.

Look at the Minelab Xterra Pro. It's a freaking beast power wise from what I've seen. But it is so crude in processing the signal the detector is crippled. The Target ID should have been a screen showing ?? instead of numbers. I don't hate it, but it is certainly a beep/dig detector. If you want to dig every signal that is the detector to get.

5 hours ago, Jeff McClendon said:

Iffy (Mike) and many posters are hung up on the target IDs produced by Beast mode and the strange tones.

The Deep Target feature is the “beastly” feature that I will be using the most from the 1.14 Beta versions. 

Totally agree with you on that. The Deep Target ID feature is perhaps the most useful thing from 1.14

That Beast mode is just not for me. I don't see any real world application of it for myself. Why in the world would I want even more instability and guesswork from a detector I'm trying to get more stable dependable operation from? It is rare if I can run sensitivity up to 22 around here. The Black Beard pirate in the Nokta video had the thing cranked to 30. Just not realistic use for me.

I never have submerged my Equinox 800. Not really hunting watery areas. Having so many verified cases of water ingress it's just not a chance I'm willing to take anyway. My Equinox is now over 4 years old. Would imagine the seals over time get even less effective.

Were there any confirmed reports on the actual source of the water leaking?

7 minutes ago, Jeff McClendon said:

I forgot to mention that V 1.09 and later work much better at saltwater beaches than the previous versions. 

The odds of me using it at a beach are slim. I'm a long way from a beach and the last time I even touched beach sand was back in 2007. Maybe a creek or something around here but even that is unlikely. The places hunted for me are public schools, parks, and an occasional private permission old home site.

I'm looking for the most stable version of the Legend software. From what I've seen from the 3 versions tried so far, it feels pretty solid. The 1.14 seemed a bit more chatty and touchy vs 1.13, my first experience out of the box with 1.11(it came with that) was quite dodgy/chatty.

Still waiting on them to refine it some more. I like the Legend, it has found me some stuff in places where other detectors have pounded the area but nothing earth shattering(gold items). But we all know that is a location problem.

I really liked the deep target feature of the 1.14 beta. That alone was a good thing and did make a difference on some targets that either didn't show an ID or were very jumpy. I'd love to see them refine that particular feature more. It would be nice to have a far better understanding of the infamous IF and ST settings and how they relate to each other. I've seen videos, and read countless posts but it still seems to be a black box type thing of hit and miss. It would also be nice to get more information on just what M1, M2, and M3 are supposed to be specialized for. All I've noticed is that M2 seems to hit harder, M3 seems to be more neutered, and M1 is somewhere in between. But weird mad scientists like me want to know what it's supposed to be all about.

I mostly use the LG24 coil, and depth is not what I'm after. I'm after separation among trashy iron infested hellholes littered with can slaw, micro foil and other challenging items. The condition of my swinging arm is highly compromised at this point with tendonitis and shoulder issues (thank you rear hit from car wreck in 2019, and a hit and run from the rear in 2021), and that hampers my ability to swing that LG30 much. So my hunts are not long ones, and must be effective. I'm liking the Legend, and it has fascinated me with all it's little personalities. I just want to be efficient when I am able to metal detect.  

Just a quick survey here, Of all the Legend versions available now which one is in your opinion the best one so far?

Please feel free to give your experiences with your favored version.

Why? I'm trying to get a picture of which one I need to try if I have not yet.

Only had 1.11, 1.13 and 1.14 in use. Went back to 1.11 but always open to trying previous versions and get a taste.

Nothing like having a spectrum analyzer to play with on your metal detector. I am curious JCR, when you turn the Legend off does that 25.6 khz spike still remain detectable? For some reason that one stayed up regardless of mode, looked like even still there when you went to 40khz on the Legend. Think that is the receive channel?

Great looking product. Hopefully they will still be in stock when my check comes in later this week. I can see that being a really good tool.

I've only experimented with the DT from this update. And so far in my yard test garden it is giving me an ID now on some that were really jumpy before. I really can see the DT feature being good for a lot of people if they don't jack it up into oblivion.  The one target in particular for me I knew exactly what it was and how deep it is. I was getting tone but no ID, the DT simply being turned on at its lowest setting helped give it a number, and as a bonus it was the proper number considering what the target was.

Has anyone ever wondered if Nokta is making "ninja updates"?  A lot of companies do that. They initially put something out there (especially software) to meet a deadline. They get some feedback int he first few days. They make changes to the software and throw it out into the wild without telling anyone (the ninja update). It happens on a regular basis with many companies. The thing about updates for metal detectors like the Legend, we are only seeing that filename and a date/time stamp.  For those of you out there that think that sort of thing can't be altered you are sadly mistaken. There are definitely ways to change date/timestamps on software. What is harder though is changing the file size (gotcha). Any manipulation of code can potentially increase/decrease the file size.

And before anyone gets upset understand that I am enjoying my Nokta Legend. I invite Nokta to throw as many Ninja Updates as they need out there in order to shock the socks off owners even more with awesome performance. At this moment in time I have no reservations about buying this detector.  I'm loving the fact they are still actively updating this machine.

1 hour ago, Aureous said:

The Chinese have an Industry wholly focused on commercial espionage. Ex Chinese Spy Agency personnel have huge networks of agents that only infiltrate and steal codes, plans and docs via electronic means. They target defense and tech companies mainly. Fairly easy work for them and lucrative. Minelab/Codan have been a target in the past and I'd imagine Nokta has now become another target.

Yep, they have entire buildings dedicated to reverse-engineering, tear-downs, and dissecting software code as well. They get their hands on something you better know they are taking it apart to learn everything they can and then begin creating prototypes based off what they learned.

It doesn't make them look good but they don't care. If they manufacture it and people buy it then who is really to blame? The ones who stole/copied or the ones who knew it was a copy and bought it?

If on the other hand, a Chinese company (or any company for that matter regardless of where they are located) comes up with their own designs from top to bottom it is not as frowned upon. One thing is for sure though, definitely no shame in their game from China. If it is out there just know they will tear it down our of sheer curiosity.

The snake is one heck of a coil. I had the Cors Shrew which is the same thing. Great coil with a quality build. It is very apparent they know how to make coils exceedingly well. That little coil blew the stock coil on my old Teknetics T2LTD away.  I also had the "puck" coil from Teknetics for that detector and it was just no comparison to what the Shrew/Snake did. I loved that coil so much it was all I used on that detector. The only drawback I seen was it took a lot more sweeps to cover areas.

On 3/8/2024 at 1:35 AM, OrBrad said:

Thanks.  I didn't think you would know but thought perhaps there was some data out there to extrapolate how the Snake has performed on other detectors vs their stock coils that were similar to the LG15. 

I can remember having the Cors Shrew coil for my old Teknetics T2LTD. Same thing as a Nel Snake. That little coil was a killer. For something so small it got very good depth. And when it came to separation, I've yet to find another coil like that one. That little coil allowed you to turn up the sensitivity more (reasonable) and seemed to be way better against interference. The construction/build quality was awesome.

I don't own the T2 anymore but can vouch for the Snake/Shrew coil and it being very effective.

3 hours ago, phrunt said:

Interesting update, Nokta keep putting better bait on their hook, they'll reel me in soon enough, the deeper Target ID thing is interesting, depending on how it compares to other deep target ID detectors.

Just need those Nel coils to be easily accessible.  

I'd like to hear how these features improve it as a prospecting detector, the hot rock thing may help.

So far, it appears they have delivered on what they said they would do. That carries a lot of weight with me.

I am wondering just how much more they are willing to update the Legend, or how much more it can take.

On 2/23/2024 at 3:15 PM, Lead Detector said:

I did do a factory reset. Nothing changed. Nokta had me send it in for repair. I just received it back a couple days ago. Now it's default overload setting is 80, instead of 90. Oh well, I guess I'll use it as is.  

Sounds like you have settled for mediocrity. Or is it just my imagination?

I would contact them again. You purchased a new machine, it should perform up to your expectations from an operational standpoint. Maybe they will replace the machine with another one if you talk to them.

It was nice today and although my tendonitis was cutting up bad in my right forearm I went anyway! So a first today, using my left arm to swing. Needless to say the sweeping wasn't as refined as using my dominant right arm, LOL. I've hunted this place for years with all kinds of metal detectors. The last time I went about a year ago the ground was silent except for a can slaw signal here and there with the Equinox. So finding anything at all here is an accomplishment. The Legend showed me it definitely has its place in my collection. Managed to pull some clad quarters, couple nickels, some dimes, and of course, pennies. All clad stuff. No silver. Never found silver in this particular place. Also found an Avon heart ring (junk).  Also dug my fair share of junk today- pull tabs, can slaw, bottle caps and other shrapnel. These aren't Earth-shattering finds for anybody. But they are something in an area I've pounded to death for years. The Legend speaks a different language and will find the goods if they are there. I find myself hunting in Park M1 and M2. All Metal mode. Deepest find was the crusty quarter at 8 inches down. Sensitivity was ran at 20-22 with LG30. I'm happy with the results. 10 hrs total on the Legend now. 

Everything I dug between 11-24, 28-38 was junk. Nickels chimed in at 25-27, dimes consistent 46-47, Quarters at 49-50, pennies 39-41 and 45-46.

1 hour ago, phrunt said:

The capacitor plague story is a good one, I was a technician at the height of it dealing with the problem, it was a Japanese thief that caused it, and most of the faulty capacitors were made in Taiwan, wasn't so much a China production issue as a Japan/Taiwan problem.

It's a good story on Wiki to read, it affected just about every brand and went well become computer equipment.

 

The same cause though- Thievery.

4 minutes ago, phrunt said:

They have enough products now to open stores like these on a corner near you for detecting gear.

There is no shame in their game. That is for sure.