mh9162013

45 minutes ago, Jeff McClendon said:

Testing the Equinox in default Park 1 is a bit like seeing the world through a front door security peep hole.

Yeah, I just learned that a few minutes ago.

I did a quick and dirty test with my version of Monte's Nail Board and when comparing Park 1 in the Equinox to the AT Max, the AT Max won. The Equinox was silent on the dime and the AT Max gave a scratchy tone, but definitely consistent (although the VDIs were all over the place).

But when I placed the Equinox into Field 1 or 2, it easily smoked the AT Max. 

So yeah, I understand that there's no way I'll be able to "fully" compare the Equinox to the AT Max But I'll work on finding some sort of "gotta-start-somewhere-cut-off" to compare these machines.

I feel like an employer looking through hundreds of CVs while trying to figure out how to sort through them all. And I'm deciding if I should use the GPA or test scores as my primary qualification and if so, what those cut offs should be. I know it's arbitrary, but I need to use something to create a manageable way to compare the CVs.

43 minutes ago, Chase Goldman said:

 

That’s not apples to apples if you are focused on determining separation.  You are going to great pains to standardize the target setup, you should try to match coil footprint also for this purpose.  Also, getting adept at how to “handle” the detector to wiggle into a partially masked target with coil control is skill-based assisted by a detector’s recovery speed capabilities.  Some detectors are suited to this zero in method, some are not.  Using equivalent sweep speeds and spans may not bear this out.  

Also, make sure you test all Equinox mode combinations, variable settings (primarily recovery speed), and single frequency setups to gather your info.  

BTW - If you want max funding for accessories, simply sell off the Equinox. 

Hope it works out such that you get a clear winner.

Out of curiosity, what coils could I use on the Equinox 600 and AT Max so they have the same coil footprints? I'm not aware of any coils that would offer this.

But regardless, it makes little difference to me, as I'm comparing the two using setups that I would actually use. 

I'm not doing these tests to decide which machine is better. I'm doing these tests to decide which machine works better for me given my soil, hunting style and current equipment/set up.

For instance, the AT Max with the 4.5 inch puck coil might hold its own compared to the Equinox 600 using the stock coil in regards to target separation abilities. But I would never use the puck coil on the AT Max as my primary set up.

So I need to compare these machines using equipment that I would actually use. I suppose this means I need to do this test with the AT Max and the 5x8 coil. I don't have that coil, but it would become my primary coil for the AT Max should I decide to keep the AT Max. However, if I decide to sell the AT Max, I'll be lucky if I get back 60 cents on the dollar when I sell the 5x8 with my AT Max (or sell them separately). 

Also, even if the AT Max with the 5x8 performs better than the Equinox 600 in terms of target masking and target separation, if I keep the Equinox 600, I'll probably be getting the 6 inch coil eventually. Then there's the almost guaranteed fact that the Equinox will give more accurate VDIs at depth than the AT Max will. The only question is how big of a difference will it be in my soil.

Thank you for the insight...and I hope I find a clear winner, too. 🙂

7 hours ago, Chase Goldman said:

Are you comparing the detectors using similar coil footprints?

Yes, they'll both be using their stock coils (8.5x11 and 11)

39 minutes ago, Chase Goldman said:

A software update isn't going to fix the Equinox water intrusion problems and that is the only real reason why an Equinox user might jump ship to the Deus II, especially at the Deus II price point.

Isn't it possible that the Deus II outperforms the Equinox in terms of SMF operation? I know that's a tall order, but it's a reasonable possibility, isn't it? In that case, Minelab could update the Equinox 800 (and maybe 600, too) to improve its capabilities.

1 hour ago, Chase Goldman said:

Why do you have sell one?

Two reasons.

One, I don't like having two "primary" detectors.

Two, I could use the cash for accessories, like a 5x8 coil if keeping the AT Max or a 6" coil (or Steve's CF shaft, pod cover, coil stiffener, etc.) if keeping the Equinox 600

In addition to my modified Monte Nail Board, I will do 2 other tests.

One, I will bury 1 clad dime about 6 inches or so in my clay soil...maybe next to a nail. Then I'll see how well all my detectors do with that.

Two, I will get some bamboo skewers, put flags with different numbers or colors to tell them apart, then head to one of my parks and use them to mark potential targets with my Equinox 600 in Park 1 mode. These will be "definitely dig" or "yeah, I'd probably dig it" signals. Then, I will go back with my Garrett AT Max and scan each target and see if I'd still dig those targets using that machine. Then I'll dig the signals and see which machine was right...or "most" right. 

I'll probably do this test twice, one time with the Equinox 600 being used first and one time with the AT Max being used first.

No, this isn't a perfect battery of tests, but I think it'll be enough to decide which metal detector gets listed for sale: the AT Max or the Equinox 600.

16 minutes ago, RobNC said:

But why do that when they can instead sell a higher priced detector?

That assumes they have the Equinox 1000 or w/e ready to go. But if it's a while off (maybe a year or so), they could release a software update to keep at least some current Equinox users from "jumping ship."

I'm currently working on this very issue. I intend to use Monte's Nail Board, but modify it so the board is a few inches thick so I can place the penny or dime on the same plane as the nails or on a lower plane. I intend to use this to compare the Equinox 600 to the Garrett AT Max and maybe my Vanquish 340 and Fisher F2.

If I get around to building and testing it, I'll let you know how it works out.

I guess if you want to go deep, SMF can help. But in my experience, when hunting for coins in mild(er) soil for targets less than 4 inches deep, my AT Max is pretty much the same as my Vanquish 540 was.

If I was in the market for a new pinpointer, I would strongly consider this one. But it doesn't seem like it has additional range/sensitivity (or improved ratcheting) compared to the TRX, F-Pulse or Mi-4/6. So I like the other bells and whistles, but they're not enoguh to get me to switch from my F-Pulse...not based on the information we have on it so far, at least. Then there's the fact it has a built-in battery...yech.

I really like its ability to turn off the lost alarm, though.

The iron discrimination doesn't mean much to me. It'd be nice to have, but I wouldn't pay extra money for it. At least the two different sounds are distinct though, unlike the Pro-Find 35.

That's a good eye, phrunt. Not sure if that fully explains everything, but it makes sense if it does!

Hmmm, it looks like that plug is related to water use.

The one on the left says "1" on it, then the graphic shows an umbrella, it seems.

The one on the right is red and presumably, has a "2" on it, then the graphic appears to be a SCUBA diver.

Definitely relates to how the controller will be used and where, although I'm not sure exatly what the differences are.

Because they both have slits in them, I'm guessing it's where you insert a tool to unscrew the grey or red round "plugs."

It's funny. I clicked on that link and it said the Deus II was in stock. But half a second later, it changed to "More on the way!"

The most I'd be willing to pay is $700. That doesn't mean I think the Deus II should sell for that, though.

It's just that I'm cheap and love finding great deals.

As for the underwater wireless capabilities, I have a few thoughts.

First, it's possible that the wireless ability only works underwater if the water is fresh. I don't know what kind of bandwidth the XPs need to transmit data from a coil to the controller, but I know that hobby R/C transmitters for planes, cars, etc. work very well in fresh water, even when transmitting on multiple channels at once. This is what we used when building and operating R/C subs.

Second, the underwater wireless ability could have certain limitations, like requiring a much slower swing speed.

Three, like abenson alluded to, there's some new wireless technology that's been around for a while (a la military operations or private industrial applications), but is finally being applied in the consumer realm.

Anything between $1500 and $2,000 would not surprise me.

5 minutes ago, abenson said:

The waterproof wireless totally caught me off guard.

Ha! And to think I said it might be a few decades away.

And the waterproofing is good to 20 meters!

3 hours ago, palzynski said:

btw QUEST has recently released a new pinpointer : QUEST XPOINTER MAX , with iron disc and a lithium battery  

QUEST XPOINTER MAX (metaux-detection.fr)

Has anybody already tried one ? 

I just watched a handful of video reviews on Youtube and this looks like a promising pinpointer.

I like how it has the OLED and green/red light indicators, can used headphones (but is no longer waterproof or even dust resistant) and most importantly, has the ability to turn off the lost alarm.

As for the discriminating ability, that means nothing to me.

As for its range and ratcheting abilities, it seems in line with the Fisher F-Pulse.

4 minutes ago, abenson said:

Like you said most of these improvements are decades away. I'm specifically talking about the 2 new SMF machines about to be released. I'm certainly not afraid to dream. In fact totally the opposite.

I could be wrong but seems like most companies are simply playing catch up and follow the leader. We will find out later today just how innovative XP really is. Will it trump the Equinox? I hope so!!!

I hear ya.

By reading b/w the lines, I think N/M's SMF machine will perform about the same as an Equinox...maybe not quite as good, but close. But like others have mentioned, it'll have a few doodads that the Equinoxes don't have...along with a better build quality.

I think XP's Deus II will perform better than the Equinox in at least a few respects, including improved performance in heavy iron.

7 hours ago, abenson said:

Ya know that more of think about these new SMF metal detectors coming out the more I think what's the point of getting yet another metal detector. How much better can they really be than what's already on the market?

There's so much room for improvement, it's not even funny.

How about a detector that can tell the difference between gold alloy and aluminum? 

How about a machine that goes deeper and is as accurate with its VDIs in the ground as it is in air tests?

How about a GPX or similar machine that weighs less than 3 pounds and runs off of just 4 AA batteries, yet gives hundreds of hours of run time?

How about an Equinox or Vanquish that doesn't get fooled by medium sized pieces of rusted iron?

How about a machine that has the ability to go deep and cut through mineralization like PI, but has the discriminating ability of an Equinox and weighs less than 2 pounds?

How about wireless technology that can go through water?

Ok, so some of the above developments are probably decades away, but there's PLENTY of opportunities for machines to get better. Until someone sells X-ray glasses that lets you see through dirt like it's pure water, there will always be a place for a new and better machine.

"You musn't be afraid to dream a little bigger darling."

That's a nicely cut plug...

Oh, and the coin's not bad either.😄

17 hours ago, GB_Amateur said:

It's too bad detectors aren't made in two versions -- waterproof and non-waterproof. 

Isn't the Minelab Excalibur II a waterproof version of one of their land-based machines? Maybe it was the Sovereign?

My Sampson T-handle shovel has always been a great tool for me. I got it about 2 or 3 years ago, and it's held up well to moderate abuse. This includes using it as a prybar to pop some smaller roots or using the shovel's tip to sever smaller-sized roots.

8 hours ago, phrunt said:

other detectors on the market that have similar features and performance to these new entry level type detectors especially from FT are just priced too high.

Absolutely, especially the Garrett AT Pro and AT Max! It's not that either are bad machines, but for what Garrett wants to sell them for...they turn into bad machines.

I spent $290 for my AT Max and I like it. We'll see how it stands up to an Equinox 600, but for $290, it's a great machine! But if I had to pay $590 or $690 for it, I'd be bashing the AT Max like it's nobody'a business.

So I think Garrett made a mistake keeping their pricing scheme such that the AT Max was a "flagship" detector. I don't think it would have been that bad for Garrett to have their Ace 400 or 300 as their new "entry level" model and significantly lower the price of the AT Max.

I understand premium pricing is a thing, but there's only so far that can go, in my opinion, especially when it relies in maintaining marketing efforts that, from what I've heard and seen on Youtube, might not be holding up as well anymore.

8 hours ago, abenson said:

Yea I think NM made a big mistake offering the Simplex with all its features at such a low price. I've seen it cannibalize its upper end models since it's release.

I never thought of N/M as being a victim of the Simplex's success, but I suppose that's possible. Or, maybe it was a calculated move, with the Simplex serving as a "loss leader." While I may not be as "hardcore" as some metal detectorists, I think I'm more into the hobby than a casual user. And the Simplex definitely increased the brand awareness of N/M for me.