mh9162013

I've been debating whether to get a Fisher F-Pulse due to its greater sensitivity compared to my Garrett Carrot. But I wonder about its "closing range." What's that? Let me try to explain.

Today, I tried using my Garrett Carrot for a full hunt, but had it on maximum sensitivity. I appreciated its extended range as it made it easier to determine if my target was in my plug or hole. However, I realized that the greater sensitivity isn't as useful as I had hoped given the amount of trash where I hunt. So while my Fisher F2 could discriminate out trash, during my dig, my Garrett Carrot might detect a piece of trash before it could get the actual target I was digging for.

But I confirmed that the greater sensitivity of my Garrett Carrot isn't as useful as I had hoped because of the short "closing range" it had. What I'm referring to is its ability to change its beeping as the poinpointer gets closer to the target.

For instance, the pinpointer might detect a target 3 inches out. But when it's still 1 inch away, the steadily increasing beeps have stopped and now it's a solid tone. And it stays this solid tone no matter how much closer you get to the target. Ideally, the steadily increasing beeps (what I'm referring to as its "closing range") will continue until the pinpointer is touching the target.

I see tons of videos on a pinpointer's sensitivity. But none on its "closing range." I'm realizing that having a pinpointer with the ability to detect a coin at 4 inches, but only has a "closing range" of 2 inches may not be as useful as a pinpointer with the ability to detect a coin at 3 inches, but has a closing range of 2.75 inches (assuming this kind of pinpointer even exists). I also understand that the size of the target makes a big difference. With my ring, I may never get a solid beep from my pinpointer even when it touches my ring. Yet when next to a metal trash can, I get the solid beep when the pinpointer is 4+ inches way.

So my question is: what pinpointer(s) have the best closing ranges? For example, the Fisher F-Pulse has the best (or among the best) range/sensitivity of most major pinpointers on the market. But does it have a correspondingly long closing range, too?

Commercial freeze dried pouches are nice due to taste and convenience, but they can be expensive.

One cheaper option I've come across are Knorr Pasta Sides and Knorr Rice Sides. These cost about $1 USD and require  you to add the contents to boiling water, then cook for 10 minutes. Or, you can put the contents in a heavy duty (freezer) resealable bag, add boiling water, then finish the cooking in 10-20 minutes in an insulated coozie (cozy?). Adding additional ingredients, such as fresh/dehydrated veggies, dehydrated/freezedried meats, instant mashed potatoes, ramen, etc. are also options. The only hesitation I have with this option is the use of boiling water in a plastic bag. I dunno if chemicals are being leached into your food, but a lot of people do this and seem to be ok with it...

Some through hikers swear by the "ramen bomb" which has varying ingeredients, but basically consist of a cheap ramen brick, ramen seasoning packet, cut up hot dog and instant mashed potatoes. Quick, easy, high calorie...and cheap. Some even swear by the taste, too.

11 minutes ago, Monte said:

I'm not Jeff, but I would also take the AT Max over the AT Pro.  Why?  The AT Max offers a Threshold-based All Metal mode and the AT Pro and Apex do not have a true All Metal mode.  Also, I only had short use of a borrowed AT Max but I liked its performance over the AT Pro I compared it with.

Monte

Thanks Monte. What you say largely parallels what Jeff told via PM.

On 2/5/2021 at 8:18 PM, Jeff McClendon said:

Compared to the AT Gold or the AT Max, I would choose either of them over the APEX.

Can you explain why you'd take an AT Max over the Apex, but not the AT Pro (sans waterproofing) over the Apex?

1 hour ago, GotAU? said:

There are subtle sound differences a detector gives off on certain targets that experienced operators learn as they use their machines that help cue them to what may or may not be a good target, and if a detector could be programmed to learn this along the way, that would be something.

That makes me wonder, what if a detector had a simple boolean algorithm that, after every hole you dug, it asks you if it was a "good" find or "trash." After a few hundred digs, I bet it could do a darn good job of being able to figure out if its user is likely to dig the next time the machine gets a signal.

17 hours ago, Steve Herschbach said:

You know, when I was a teenager you could buy a pocket calculator that added, subtracted, multiplied, and divided with a couple other little functions for $500. I told my friend and partner Dudley that someday they would give them away free. He of course scoffed but in later days now he brings it up a lot that I was right. Never underestimate how quickly and how fast technology can advance giving us more power at lower prices. The expensive high tech toys of today are no different.

Just to add on what Steve said, today, you can buy a birthday or holiday card that plays music when you open it up. This card has more computing power than was available to the entire Allied armies of WW2. But today, when we're done with the card, we throw it away.

Thanks for doing that test.

Is magnetite the the primary "ingredient" of black sand?

On 12/17/2020 at 2:29 PM, Glasswalker said:

they don't "leak" power as fast as other battery types (such as NiMH)

Low self-discharge (LSD) NiMH have very low battery drain. We're talking 30% over 10 years and roughly 5-15% over the first year or two. Assuming this is still faster than Lithium self-discharge, there is the practical limitation of not storing a lithium battery at or near full capacity (as your post already mentioned). Then there's the variable of parasitic draw, which many machines will have, regardless of the battery type it uses.

So when it comes to long-term storage of batteries at full capacity, LSD NiMHs are the way to go, not (traditional) lithium.

On 12/7/2020 at 10:23 AM, Bayard said:

Your assertion is contrary to my experience of the last five years using only RNB lithium battery packs in my Etrac.  I would never go back to NiMH and have to charge batteries the night before every hunt.

All else being equal, with current battery tech, a lithium (poly or ion) cell will not be as durable or forgiving to abuse as a high quality NiMH cell.

That doesn't mean lithium packs or cells will never be able to outlast or outperform nickel-based cells, though, as there are so many variables that determine how long a cell lasts and different levels of lithium and nickel cell quality.

On 11/17/2020 at 1:19 PM, Bayard said:

I'd rather spend $60 and never have to worry about batteries again. 

In that case, avoid lithiums. They are more delicate, less forgiving to abuse and have a lower lifespan than a high quality NiMH cell.

IGNORE

18 hours ago, Hamid said:

Anywhere, whites electronics is winner. 

Absolutely not true.

21 hours ago, Steve Herschbach said:

the real stuff is being held back.

For Garrett!

On 10/9/2020 at 9:28 PM, Geotech said:

I had an unenforceable (badly written) 2 year NDA but even if enforceable would not have prevented me from designing a similar product, meaning a VLF pinpointer. Just not the same design. And since I did not write the TRX micro code, it would have been guaranteed to be a different design. But it still might have looked a bit dodgy so I chose a PI design to avoid any semblance of dodginess.

Thanks for the explanation.

On 10/7/2020 at 1:48 PM, Geotech said:

(a) I had only recently left White's and felt that would be a bit unethical

Was there no NDA or other legal agreement preventing you from doing that?

Ahhh, that makes sense.

But if someone had an old Ace and wanted to upgrade, I still think the Apex could be a reasonable recommendation (depending on their specific needs, of course).

3 hours ago, phrunt said:

I don't like settling for second, third

I don't understand. You say you want the best, but then you got a Vanquish 540 when you already had an Equinox 800. From a form factor perspective, I agree that Vanquish > Equinox, but from a technical capability perspective the Vanquish is inferior to the Equinox, right?

I concur 100% with you that the Apex isn't that big of a jump from the old Ace line. But that doesn't mean it doesn't serve a particular group of detectorists. There are so many reasons why someone would want to buy the Apex. 

I'm a believer in that one should avoid the "muddle in the middle" as much as possible. For instance, if I wanted a SMF detector, I'd try to get either the Vanquish 340 or the Equinox 800. I'd avoid the Equinox 600 or the Vanquish 540/440 like the plague. My general philosophy is to go cheap or go all out; kinda like Yoda, "there is no try." If you can't afford the Equinox 800, but can afford the 600, just wait to buy the 800. If you can afford the Vanquish 540/440 but don't need the Equinox 800, get the 340 and save the left over money for other things, like a pinpointer, paying bills, buying another toy, etc.

Of course, there are plenty of reasons to get a Vanquish 440/540 or an Equinox 600. Some of them may actually apply to me. But getting one of those machines goes against my general philosophy.

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with what you buy or think, phrunt; I just don't follow your reasoning. I mean, I'm considering a Tesoro as my next detector. Why? Because I get to tinker with the knobs, not worry about my machine getting superseded by a newer model (that ship sailed a decade ago) and figure out how to replace its 9V battery power source. Yeah, those aren't the most practical or logical reasons.

11 hours ago, phrunt said:

I don't see the point going entry level to entry level.

Says the advanced metal detector user who purchased a Vanquish! 

Granted, you got a 540...

But seriously, going from an old Ace to the Apex is a prett big jump, is it not? Even if Garrett's SMF tech works only have as well as Minelab's, it's still a nice upgrade. I guess for someone who wants to really push their metal detecting limits, in terms of areas to hunt and skills to develop, it may not be a big jump. But someone who wants to keep things casual and doesn't expect to go underwater, it's a nice upgrade.

9 hours ago, phrunt said:

one worth attempting to win

Which is more than you can usually say for Minelab.

Great finds and thanks for sharing. I'm thinking my next machine will be the 340...

I have to give Garrett credit for actually producing and shipping a product they announced just a few months earlier. None of this announce/tease, then make people wait for years. And even if there were delays, it would be understandable, given this virus thing going around.

1 hour ago, GB_Amateur said:

  My two hand-held pinpointers (Carrot included) seem to be especially picky with voltage

My Pro-Find 35, when I still had it, was particular about the 9V batteries it could use, i.e. alkaline only. Heavy duty batteries caused glitching.

Those are good choices, as they're PI devices and use AA batteries and have good sensitivity (from what I've heard and seen online).

Another option is the Minelab Pro-Find 35.

On 7/29/2020 at 1:35 AM, GraceWalsh said:

I wonder how many people have survival kit.

I have multiple, and always carry one in my car. I also have a specialized first aid kit/survival kit combo in my metal detecting equipment bag. It's more like a first aid kit with a few survival gadgets inside.

As for choice of equipment, I'd stick with name brand gear and avoid the no-name knock offs. I mean, if money was that tight where you had to choose between a low quality piece of equipment and nothing at all, I'll take the low quality stuff. But if you're going to do something you'll rely on with your life, buy some reasonably decent gear.

For flashlights, I'm thinking of companies like Pelican, Fenix, Surefire, Streamlight, Maglite, Underwater Kinetics and Princeton Tec.

On 8/5/2020 at 6:44 PM, phrunt said:

I'm good at losing stuff, I've lost my gold bottle more times than I care to admit, a few times with gold in it.  I use a lanyard on my pin pointer, it connects onto my pouch.  I picked the lanyards up for about $2 each at a $2 shop funny enough 🙂 I bought 5 of them so I've got spares.  I ended up using one in my boat to attach the boats key to the dashboard and another one to keep the kill switch key on the boat from getting lost, attached near the kill switch as I never take the keys out of the boat anyway so if the keys fall out they're attached by the lanyards, stops me losing them too.

The lanyard I use looks exactly like that one.