mh9162013

1 minute ago, Jeff McClendon said:

Equinox 600

Jeff

The 600 would be your first choice detector for a salt water beach?

1 hour ago, Chase Goldman said:

The right tool for the job at hand.  I use a PI for relic hunting in super hot dirt, the versatile Equinox for relic, park, and beach hunting, and my Deus/Orx is probably my favorite because I know it so well, it is light, and it kills in thick iron. 

If you life depending on searching salt water beaches, would the Equinox 800 still be your detector of choice? If not, what would?

1 hour ago, phrunt said:

If you're in a situation where you dig it all that beeps then yes, possibly the Go-Find (limited by coil size) and especially the Ace will probably find you in my soils virtually everything the Nox will.

Thanks for confirming that. The more and more I read about Multi-IQ, the more I began to think what you just said.

For example, I hate the Equinox's straight shaft and built-in battery. Assuming:

1. I was willing to dig everything,

2. I wasn't going to search salt water beaches,

3. I wasn't going to do any hunting in super hot grounds,

4. I wasn't going to do any gold prospecting, and

5. I was willing to really learn my machine,

Would I be as successful with a Garrett AT Pro or Fisher F75+ as with an Equinox 800? It sounds like the answer is, "yes."

Yeah, I know those are a lot of assumptions...

51 minutes ago, dogodog said:

I wouldn't get to wrapped up in the whole better not better thing

That's the whole point when choosing what detector to use. Also, it's nice to understand the why in any choice.

1 hour ago, phrunt said:

you just can't dig 1000 holes.

In my quest to determine what makes an expensive detector "better" than a cheaper one, it seems like this is the primary advantage: more efficient digging. In other words, if someone was willing to dig it all, then they could be successful with almost any quality machine. It's only when people start picking and choosing whether to dig a signal or not, that the higher tech begins to shine.

I noticed this working in the real world. When you get down to brass tacks, the real difference between a professional and an amateur is efficiency. For example, I can can probably cook a gourmet dish as well as a professional chef. But the professional chef can create 8 dishes in 20 minutes while it takes me 4 hours to make just 1 dish.

1 hour ago, phrunt said:

I will miss targets due to it's unstable ID's

See, this is what I was thinking might be the case here. Whether I'm using an Equinox 800 or AT Pro, I'm still gonna get a signal when I hit almost any target. However, the AT Pro is more likely to make it look "iffy" while the Equinox 800 is more likely to make it look "diggable."

If that's the case, then in theory, experience and skill with a particular machine can largely make up for the Multi-IQ advantage in certain situations.

Take PI machines in black sand or highly mineralized/salty ground and compare them to a single frequency VLF machine. There's no debate which you probably want to use, right? The PI machine will work (for the most part) and the VLF machine will be almost useless...or at least far disadvantaged. But it seems like when comparing the Multi-IQ to a single frequency VLF machine in a mild location, such as a park, the advantage is less obvious or less extreme.

6 minutes ago, palzynski said:

On high iron trashed areas with thousands of old nails , the ML multifreqs cant compete with single frequency machines like the Deus , ORX , Tesoro Lobo , T2 on the FA mode , …  It is just my opinion

Can you elaborate?

3 hours ago, Chase Goldman said:

The main advantage of Multi IQ (Equinox/Vanquish) or other simultaneous multi frequency detector schemes (e.g., BBS, FBS) in general is that it enables salt balancing without the need to lower sensitivity because it can get a salt reference from at least two frequencies.

So you think Multi-IQ's biggest advantage is better beach detecting?

I keep hearing that a major advantage of the Equinox (and Vanquish) is that it allows users to make finds in locations that have already been pounded by earlier hunts.

I believe this, but I want to know "how" this is happening. Let's use a hypothetical to illustrate my question.

Let's say you have a park and  most detectorists are using the Compadre, Ace, F2, F75+, AT series...or some other single frequency VLF machine. But you've got the Vanquish or Equinox and you're able to make "great finds" that the other people are missing. How does this happen? 

Is your Multi-IQ machine able to see something that the machines can't? Or is it able to see it with a "better" signal (i.e. higher tone, louder tone, higher VDI number, etc.)?

In other words, is the non-Multi-IQ machine completely missing a target while the Equinox or Vanquish see it? Or do most machine see the target, but only the Multi-IQ machine sees it as a "diggable" target?

Alternatively, do all machine have roughly the same ability to see targets A, B, and C. But only the Multi-IQ machines can see targets D and E?

I'm just trying to conceptualize the term "better."

8 minutes ago, phrunt said:

Their next video will have the US national anthem playing in the background.

29 minutes ago, kac said:

really like about my AT Pro is the battery system

That's one of the draws the AT Pro/Max have for me: the ability to use various types of AA batteries: Nickel-based, alkaline and special packs, like you described.

I'd just use Eneloops or other LSD AA cells, though. No need to spend that money on the special lithium pack when I can use the AA cells in other applications if I so choose.

I can see the special lithium pack (RNB) being beneficial if I were water detecting like 8+ hours a day for several days and wanted to avoid having to open the battery compartment in the middle of a hunt (I normally hunt only a few hours at a time, so recharging cells every night would not be an issue for me). But then again, I'd probably use primary lithium AA cells for a water hunt like that (assuming the AT series of detectors can take the extra voltage of about 0.1 to 0.2 volts per cell).

22 minutes ago, Chase Goldman said:

I just hope Garret has put enough thought into the Apex and its battery design.

I would assume they have. I'll be impressed if it's easily user replaceable, like the battery on the Equinox.

And yes, batteries are kind of my thing. Sometimes I almost wonder if metal detectors are just an excuse to play with batteries.

7 minutes ago, Chase Goldman said:

The "rent a detector" argument makes sense on the surface but in reality, I find it to not be a realistic drawback, especially if you consider the disposable technology model (unfortunate but true) of modern technology evolutiom.  By the time the battery dies, a better mousetrap usually appears.

I hear ya. My opposition to built-in batteries is in the extreme minority. And in many cases, isn't a big deal for reasons you mentioned. And to be honest, I doubt Minelab and XP are actually trying to "pull a John Deere."

However, the more people that engage in a behavior, regardless of motivation, the easier it is to normalize and accept. This makes it easier to do later on and by others. This applies to other things in life, from sexual abuse to political power moves to contract terms for consumer products.

11 minutes ago, Chase Goldman said:

Interested in knowing why not.  I'm impressed they are taking a step forward into 2020 instead of backwards to 2010.

The use of built-in batteries has its advantages. For a given volume, it will produce more capacity/power than a machine using an easier to replace AAA, 9V or AA cells. It also help improve water/weather-proofness as there is one less frequently used opening to protect against dust or water intrusion. 

However, a built-in battery almost always requires the use of a non-conventional battery, such as a custom Li-Po cell or if we're lucky, a commonly used lithium cell, like the 18650. I think devices shifting over to less common or proprietary batteries are part of the trend that makes DIY/self-help/self-repair all the more difficult. The harder manufacturers make it for the end-user to replace batteries themselves, the greater control they're trying to take over the consumer.

Of course, when it comes to built-in batteries, there's a continuum of "control" over the consumer. For one, the battery used could be easy to access and replace, although harder than a machine that uses AA cells, like the Ace series, for instance. Second, the battery itself could proprietary or hard to find. It's one thing if a device uses an 18650 cell versus some exotic lithium chemistry in a shape that the world has never seen before.

In other words, companies using built-in batteries, in my view, are an attempt to be like John Deere ("you don't own the product. You're just buying the right to use it, and any repairs, modifications, etc. are ILLEGAL without our permission." And yes, John Deere actually made this argument, but lost, luckily...)

And not all built-in battery products are equal. Compare the Equinox to the MI-4 and MI-6 XP pinpointers. My understanding of both is that the Equinox battery can be swapped by the end-user with reasonable or minimal effort (dunno if this voids the warranty, though), but the MI-4 and MI-6 require sending them in to the manufacturer. I don't know if this is true, but it's my understanding. Assuming my understanding is correct, the XP pinpointers are just an example of manufactures trying to limit the end-users ability to use the pinpointer how they choose.

TL;DR - built-in batteries make it easier to implement forced obsolescence practices by companies. 

Here's a teaser video: 

Not impressed with fact that it probably has a built-in battery, though.

I was referring to you as an influencer, not a male version of a "booth babe." 

On 4/3/2020 at 1:31 PM, phrunt said:

I think they just had a whole bunch of those neck warming things that they were going to hand out free at some detecting event that is cancelled due to the virus.

That makes the most sense and explains the...somewhat unimpressive prize and competition.

On 4/6/2020 at 3:32 PM, Steve Herschbach said:

They don't even send me marketing emails anymore; must have really pissed off somebody in marketing! 

My gut reaction is that you're too honest.

2 hours ago, cjc said:

Second, making one coil run perfectly at all frequencies is extremely difficult, again giving the dedicated machine an edge.

Hmmmm...

Perhaps this is why Minelab doesn't want third party companies making coils for Multi-IQ machines? The primary issue is keeping others from knowing Minelab's secrets of a coil that can handle multiple frequencies very well, as opposed to limiting competition or increasing sales of Minelab coils.

Besides working, I'm continuing my development of a 3x AAA to 9V adapter for my pinpointers. They work just fine, so I'm just tweaking my prototypes for better ergonomics.

I like the user replaceable batteries (AA, especially). I think what Minelab did with the battery in the Equinox is just another attack against DIY or self-help movements. From an engineering POV, I get it. At the very least, at least replacing the battery is relatively straightforward.

And like you, I don't need waterproofness. However, I crave it. I know it adds extra weight, but having those extra seals really comforts me and it's something I'm willing to deal with even if it comes with a little bit of extra weight. As much as I want a waterproof machine, it doesn't mean I'm willing to pay double the price or carry double the weight. It's all about trade-offs. 

If I had to guess what it is, it's an updated Ace-level detector. Maybe something in between the AT Pro and the Ace 400, but it's water proof.

I doubt it'll be multi-frequency like Minelab's Multi-IQ, but maybe it can change frequencies with the use of different coils. Not the same, but allows them to market it as a "multi-frequency" detector. And if the intended customer is a rookie, they'll be easier to sway with the multi-frequency marketing hype (because they'll be less likely to know that type of tech has been around for years).

So it is a detector and not some shovel or "gimmick" product.

Sweet!

16 hours ago, phrunt said:

I'm happy to be the guinea pig 🙂  I've been using mine in the rain and don't intend to stop.  I don't often use pinpoint or press any buttons and I would imagine that would be the most likely point of water ingress so I think I'll be ok.  The battery compartment may let some water in but I can't see that causing any issues.

 

Merci on the testing!

I think you're right, short-term, you'll be fine in the rain. But a small amount of moisture build up will cause damage, over time. The only question, how long will it take before this damage causes noticeable and irreversible damage?

On 3/23/2020 at 4:59 PM, phrunt said:

I've had my Vanquish in the rain with no rain cover, no issues so far.  In this video they say the control pod is water resistant.

They mention it has a rain cover but my understanding from the video is the pod is water resistant... It could just be poor wording on their part or poor understanding on my part (most likely as they say with water resistant cover) but I'm running with it and have had mine in the rain often.

I don't care about waterproofing, water resistance to rain is all I'll ever need.    If the Vanquish was waterproof it would possibly be getting too close to an Equinox to keep the product lines separate.

I just watched the video. It talked about the control pod being water resistant as it was showing footage of it with the rain cover on it.

It's not water resistant...not officially, at least.