mh9162013

2 minutes ago, dogodog said:

umax for high iron old sites.

You use a concentric with your Umax, right?

Seems like there's two ways to hunt in heavy iron.

One, there's using a machine with high recovery speed and great target separation and tring to surgically isolate the good signals amongst the bad.

Two, there's using a concentric and letting the iron bits merge with the good targets. And even though the signal received by the Tesoro or other "older" machine might be an average signal of the high and low tone targets, if you set your discrimination knob in the right spot and have learned the nuanced sounds of your machine, then you can still reliabily identify when there's a good target amongst the iron trash.

Here's a response that's slightly more on point.

I hade 2 Tesoros for a short while, but wasn't happy with their performance. The Vaquero's ground balancing seemed cumbersome and only when in All Metal Mode could it detect the clad dime and/or iron nail in my "test garden."

But I do like Tesoros. I enjoy their light weight, retro-futuristic look (like Steampunk on steroids) and their "beep and dig" approach to hunting. I also liked their modification potential. And like the OP recognized, I think I could have learned how to use them better if I spent the time to learn the nuanced sounds my Tesoros made.

My ears are odd. On the one hand, I'm tone deaf. If you played me just one of the 5 tones the Equinox makes in 5 tone mode, I probably could only identify the iron and second lowest tone reliably. But I'd get the mid, mid-high and high tones mixed up. When I'm hunting with my Equinox 600, I occassionaly confuse the mid-tone with the mid-high tone. And I almost always think the mid-high tone is actually the high tone. So VDIs are kind of important for me...😕

It's like in band class from years ago when I couldn't tell if my trumpet was playing a C or G.

But on the other hand, I'm pretty good and recognizing patterns in certain voice and melodic cadences. This allows me to more easily identify voice actors or composers. We have yet to see if that "skill" can translate to metal detecting...

3 minutes ago, kac said:

Majority of finds are not hard to detect with just about any machine and only in the more difficult areas where there is poor ground, high emi, deep targets, masked targets and highly hunted areas do people look for that little bit of an edge.

Very true. 

I believe that based on where and how I hunt, an AT Max and E-Trac can find 80-90% of what I would have found with my Equinox 600. But it's nice to have that extra edge you mentioned for the ocassional hunts that take me to somewhere different or going after targets that are in the super mineralized clay where I live.

18 minutes ago, Joe D. said:

  Yep, you and Kac have made me a believer, and upped the prices!!😁👍👍

Lucky me! 😃

20 minutes ago, dogodog said:

Why so few Tesoro's for sale?

Probably because as a percentage of total detectors sold, Tesoros are small (compred to Minelab, Garrett and Fisher).

Being discontinued will have a psychological effect too, in that someone's less likely to sell something they aren't sure they could replace easily.

This latter explanation is one of the strongest reasons as to why I'm consiering selling my Equinox 600 instead of my E-Trac; the fomer will be FAR easier (and likely cheaper) to replace in the future if I decide I made a mistake.

8 hours ago, cudamark said:

If you piss off your customer base, those responsible will get fired, or the company goes bankrupt.

Not sure what your experience is working for a company, but people (especially managers) don't always act in their employer's best interest. And employees (regardless of where they are in the hierarchy) often don't get what they deserve for the good things they do, as well as the bad.

2 minutes ago, cudamark said:

Paying for a professional analysis would be in their best interest to get all the bugs worked out.

The bests interests of the company and end useres, yes. But the best interest of a particular manager? Maybe not.

1 hour ago, Bill (S. CA) said:

I'm going to throw in a different take on the AQ since, like Steve, I've had it with First Texas.  While I agree that the AQ needs a major redesign, I blame the need for this on one thing.  "Shill field testers."  How many times have we heard about new detectors that are being tested worldwide by supposedly qualified field testers and right when the machines are ready to come out there is a sudden and abrupt halt?  The reason is always the same, something to the effect of "minor changes, adding useful features, etc."  Baloney.  The problem is that most guys who test these units are just looking to get free stuff so they rubber stamp units.  I'll give you a perfect example.  A number of years ago a very prominent metal detector manufacturer contacted me and one other detectorist in the United States to test out a new detector.  We were told that it performed flawlessly in the lab and that a team of European hunters had all signed off on the detector.   To make a long story short, it took each of us less than an hour to determine that the detector was impossible to hunt with.  It took over three months of our testing various software upgrades and changes before we were able to get it working.  All of that was done for zero compensation and no free stuff.  And it was worth it because the detector became one of the best selling metal detectors of all time.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not beating my chest and bragging.  My point is that if these manufacturers were serious about building detectors that work they would use genuine, honest testers instead of these ass kissing shills they go to every time.  On this forum alone, a number of you would be ideal candidates.  But for some unknown reason the manufacturers simply don't seek out the honest types of testers required to really evaluate new detectors.  I mean, come on, the mechanical problems of the AQ have been visible from the start and verified by users.  First Texas could have hired Joe Beechnut to fix everything, right?

And so it goes.  I'll be honest, I think the AQ is dead.  And even if it does hit the market, who cares?  The Deus II has taken any buzz that the AQ had and squashed it.

Bill (S. CA)

You talking about the AT Pro? 😁

But seriously, I wonder why any company would develop a detector like that. I'm guessing poor management...

Neat teaser review!

I'm definitely interested in that shaft. I have a possible Etrac coming my way though, so I'll have to make sure that doesn't work for me before I invest heavily in my Equinox. But assuming I do, I'll probably be getting one of Steve's shafts...

6 minutes ago, rvpopeye said:

Thx .

So  ?  the RF website is ok but some of the members may have some issues ?

Sorry if I stirred something better left alone .

I saw that they only allow 3 finders listed per city etc. and If you "buy" 3 memberships you get exclusive listing for your area.  (brings to mind Amway ...)  

Retirement plans don't include a new job , guess I'll just wait for friends to lose something.... and If I can return random finds , bonus !

I don't really have an issue with that website. It might rub me the wrong way sometimes, but I don't think the owner of the site or most of its participants (ring finders) are unethical or anything.

15 hours ago, Skate said:

It always amazes me how many people jump up on their soapbox to ridicule people who have used their hobby to make some extra cash. So what if someone willingly asks for help and then willingly pays you for your help?

"If you're really good at something, never do it for free" or so the saying goes, right? But it's one thing to give the impression that you're (the general you, not necessarily you in particular) volunteering to help, then charge a fee as opposed to giving the impression you're a business who has costs and expenses to cover.

It's like food. No one complains that grocery stores charge for the food you buy there. But imagine going into a food bank expecting to get free food out of charity, only to be hit with a bill when trying to take the food to your car.

For some reason, that website sometimes gives me the impression they're more of a food bank instead of a grocery store. I know my impression isn't necessarily correct, though.

10 hours ago, nebulanoodle said:

Any word beyond speculation about a new Minelab Equinox?? 
I am in the market, just wondering if I should retain a little patience.

My gut says the most we'll see from Minelab in 2022 in response to the Legend and Deus II is a software update and price increase. Maybe we'll get a teaser announcement in late 2022?

I'm expecting MInelab to produce a new product that's better than the Equinox 800 (Equinox 1000, a next gen CTX, etc.), but I'm not expecting it to be released until 2023.

Great finds and glad you're back hunting!

I always thought that this was more of a "community/volunteer service" sort of operation. But apparently I was wrong and many users rely on that website to turn their metal detecting hobby into a for-profit business.

To each their own.

Here's a pic or 2 of my EVA grip stopper donut thingy. It's janky, but it works. I'm going to work on a cleaner version eventually, now that I think I've settled on the Equinox 600 as my go-to detector.

On 12/28/2021 at 11:42 AM, GB_Amateur said:

95% copper Memorial cents (and clad dimes):  24-26.

Wheat Cents:  19-24 (the oldest ones tend to be at the low end of this range and the more recently minted towards the higher end).

Recent drop (minimally deteriorated) Zinc cents:  20-21.  (These are shallower than 3"-4", more like 0"-2".)

Zinc cents that have been in the ground for 2 or more decades:  17-19.  Note:  the less metal remaining the lower the dTID -- not surprising.

These are virtually identical to what I see in my ground, whether a tot lot or located in the fairly mild top layer soil/dirt.

On 12/28/2021 at 4:28 AM, Sinclair said:

I've tried a lot of different tapes (bike, badmington..).. didn't help much. At the moment I use a 3D printed grip stopper, but that's no "end-solution" either. Maybe an angle compensating mounting bracket / shim would help, but I've been too lazy to design one in CAD, yet

I have made a "grip stopper" out of EVA foam. It's a soft and squishy "donut" that allows much of the weight to be spread out over my thumb and index finger so my swinging hand barely has to grip the Equinox's control pod handle. Basically, it's a foam version of this:

In a few months, things will become much clearer.

I have a feeling that the Deus II to the Equinox 800 will be more like comparing an Equinox 600 to a Vanquish 540 or Garrett Apex as opposed to comparing an Equinox 600 to a Bounty Hunter IV.

In other words, noticeable differences in SMF performance and a few features, but nothing "groundbreaking."

I'll feel a lot better when I get rid of my two Tesoros...

48 minutes ago, Chase Goldman said:

exaggerated sensationalism

That's putting it mildly...

1 hour ago, NCtoad said:

I just watched a video of a guy comparing the new legend to the equinox on Monte’s nail board test.  Sorry, but I don’t have a link to it, but I think I saw it over on the friendly forum.  In the video he is using the nox and says he has the recovery speed set at 8 and sensitivity at 23.  Then he also mentions that recovery speed is what’s important on this test, not sensitivity.  I have to disagree.  Running 23 sense on what is basically an air test with an 11” coil only a few inches above the targets seems like way too much power to me.  Monte has confirmed that this test of his was developed from surface finds.  So I’m thinking this guy would have gotten better results (with both nox and legend) by lowering the sensitivity dramatically.  Like maybe down to 10 or 12 on the nox.  Am I correct in my assumptions?   I have a site near my house that’s loaded with old iron.  Most finds are 3-5” deep or less.  I’ve actually compared non ferrous signals with low sensitivity and then bumped the sense up to 20 or so and the signal is more muddled and much more iffy to define than on the lower setting of around 12.  I’m just curious why these guys doing the nail board tests aren’t at least trying a lower sensitivity setting?

I agree that lower sensitivity is better. But to possibly defend/explain the person who made the video (Iffy Signals?), they might conduct all tests using the highest sensitivity reasonably possible on their machine. This could be one way they try to keep different tests from different days/machine as consistent as possible.

31 minutes ago, Jeff McClendon said:

Sensitivity being too high is one thing to consider.  So is swing speed.

In real world, bed of nails situations there is absolutely no way that I would ever swing my coil in such a fast and haphazard way as the tester in the video you referenced. The same goes for many other testers that I have seen lately who think that swinging a coil really fast over nails and coins is a true representation of what these detectors can actually achieve in real world situations or that the one that can be swung fastest is the best for all ferrous/non-ferrous situations. I certainly will swing fairly quickly in tiny 1 to 3" swings when I have isolated a non-ferrous target in a high iron or high aluminum trashed site to zero in and center the target under the coil. I would never do that while walking a site to try and find a quality non-ferrous target in a densely trashed area which Monte's Nail Board test recreates.

This is a great point. But to defend the "fast swingers," it's also possible that they normally use a fast swing speed. And since that's their hunting style, that's the testing approach they use.

When I know I'm in a high trash environment, I do slow down my swing speed a little bit. But I don't always know I'm in a high trash environment, especially at a new permission. So I use my "default" swing speed...which may or many not be faster compared to other metal detectorists. When I do my own nail board tests, I'm doing it using my personal default swing speed to see if, had the test actually been a real world hunt, would my detector have given me enough indication to dig or at the very least, take different action, ie slow down my swing, shorten the arc of my swing, swing from a different angle, adjust my sensitivty or other settings, etc.

41 minutes ago, Seiko said:

why spend £1400 on a dues 2 just buy a second hand nox 800 as i expect the prices will drop when the dues 2 is available, you have all the benefits of the dues 2 and a back up detector,
Or if you own a Eqinox just buy a second hand dues 1 as the prices have come down already, or if you want all the advantages of the Dues 1 and the equinox 800 in one package get the Duers2

Because some people would rather have 1 machine instead of 2 when actively hunting. The Deus II is also expected to be more rugged and handle wet/underwater envinronments better than the Equinox.

7 hours ago, phrunt said:

Here is the latest Dllek Update or should I say response to the general public about their response to her last video from a few minutes ago for those that don't use Facebook.

I do like XP's marketing method.  When does engaging with the public go from being beneficial to harmful?

I could only get through the first 4 or 5 minutes of that.

I'm a believer of the general idea that "the weakest person in the room is the loudest person in the room."

That being said, I also understand the desire to respond to unfair/unwarranted criticisms. I'm also a believer that when you don't respond to a question or concern, the public will fill in the blanks themselves and it will often be with the with a worst case scenario.

So I see N/M being in a possible catch-22 position.

I'm rooting for N/M and the Legend. I hope it does well and gives Minelab and Garrett a few sleepless nights. I also hope the Deus II does well, although given it's price, I don't think it'll compete in the same way the Legend or even the Equinox 600 will.

Lastly, I appreciate the approach N/M took with marketing the Legend, by calling out Minelab and their Equinox. But I'm not saying it's better or worse than XP's approach (a la, "I'll let the Deus II and its performance do the talking...").

I think I've finally settled on a primary metal detector (the Equinox 600) so I have no intention of buying either the Legend or Deus II any time soon. But I do love all these choices and can't wait to see what Garrett and Minelab release in response.

6 hours ago, Jeff McClendon said:

With your buried clay layer, I would be ground balancing very carefully. That requires that you have nothing rejected when you ground balance. So, turn on the Nox 600, do a noise cancel, press the horseshoe button to accept all targets, find a relatively clean spot and do a quick ground grab. Once the Nox 600 has settled on a number you are ready to go. Press the horseshoe button to reject the iron range and go detect.

I always ground balance with the horshoe button "on" (all targets accepted)...or at least I try to.

Although, when I ground balanced over that hole that boosted the GB number about 20 points, it's possible I didn't have all targets accepted. Hmm...