mh9162013

These are virtually identical to what I see in my ground, whether a tot lot or located in the fairly mild top layer soil/dirt.

I have made a "grip stopper" out of EVA foam. It's a soft and squishy "donut" that allows much of the weight to be spread out over my thumb and index finger so my swinging hand barely has to grip the Equinox's control pod handle. Basically, it's a foam version of this:

In a few months, things will become much clearer. I have a feeling that the Deus II to the Equinox 800 will be more like comparing an Equinox 600 to a Vanquish 540 or Garrett Apex as opposed to comparing an Equinox 600 to a Bounty Hunter IV. In other words, noticeable differences in SMF performance and a few features, but nothing "groundbreaking."

I'll feel a lot better when I get rid of my two Tesoros...

That's putting it mildly...

I agree that lower sensitivity is better. But to possibly defend/explain the person who made the video (Iffy Signals?), they might conduct all tests using the highest sensitivity reasonably possible on their machine. This could be one way they try to keep different tests from different days/machine as consistent as possible.

This is a great point. But to defend the "fast swingers," it's also possible that they normally use a fast swing speed. And since that's their hunting style, that's the testing approach they use. When I know I'm in a high trash environment, I do slow down my swing speed a little bit. But I don't always know I'm in a high trash environment, especially at a new permission. So I use my "default" swing speed...which may or many not be faster compared to other metal detectorists. When I do my own nail board tests, I'm doing it using my personal default swing speed to see if, had the test actually been a real world hunt, would my detector have given me enough indication to dig or at the very least, take different action, ie slow down my swing, shorten the arc of my swing, swing from a different angle, adjust my sensitivty or other settings, etc.

Because some people would rather have 1 machine instead of 2 when actively hunting. The Deus II is also expected to be more rugged and handle wet/underwater envinronments better than the Equinox.

I could only get through the first 4 or 5 minutes of that. I'm a believer of the general idea that "the weakest person in the room is the loudest person in the room." That being said, I also understand the desire to respond to unfair/unwarranted criticisms. I'm also a believer that when you don't respond to a question or concern, the public will fill in the blanks themselves and it will often be with the with a worst case scenario. So I see N/M being in a possible catch-22 position. I'm rooting for N/M and the Legend. I hope it does well and gives Minelab and Garrett a few sleepless nights. I also hope the Deus II does well, although given it's price, I don't think it'll compete in the same way the Legend or even the Equinox 600 will. Lastly, I appreciate the approach N/M took with marketing the Legend, by calling out Minelab and their Equinox. But I'm not saying it's better or worse than XP's approach (a la, "I'll let the Deus II and its performance do the talking..."). I think I've finally settled on a primary metal detector (the Equinox 600) so I have no intention of buying either the Legend or Deus II any time soon. But I do love all these choices and can't wait to see what Garrett and Minelab release in response.

I always ground balance with the horshoe button "on" (all targets accepted)...or at least I try to. Although, when I ground balanced over that hole that boosted the GB number about 20 points, it's possible I didn't have all targets accepted. Hmm...

But that doesn't address the situation where your ground conditions are changing as you move around during your hunt. Reground balancing in your new location may not be possible due to heavy concentrations of trash. This is a problem I face, at least. I've assumed there's nothing I could do about it, but now that I realize tracking GB might be an option...

Hold up. I must be confused or missing something here. If my Equinox 600 is not ground balanced properly, my target IDs should still be unchanged? I've noticed that the same type of coin will read differently depending on the soil conditions with respect to mineralization and moisture levels (conductivity?). Sometimes, a copper penny is 20. But other times, I've had a copper penny ring up as high as the mid 20s. I assumed this variation was, at least in part, due to diffferences in how my machine was ground balanced for given soil conditions. Then there's the fact that without proper ground balancing, my MIQ machines have had a habit of chasing ghost signals deep in my clay soil after a recent rain...

What do you mean, ground noise? Like iron grunts? I normally hunt in Park 1 or 2, so those are discriminated out. I thought ground conditions could change such that there's no noticeable change in the sounds you're hearing. Except the tones and VDIs will start corresponding to targets of different conductivity levels. So in one section of a field, copper pennies might ring up as a 22, but in another part of the field, the same pennies might ring up as a 24. However, reground balancing could avoid this shift in VDIs (or tones, depending on how your tones "bins" are set up). Or am I missing something? Another issue with reground balancing is many places I hunt are so trashy, finding a clear spot in the ground is difficult. I can't just stop a hunt and reground balance. It might take several minutes of walking around to find a spot that's trash free to reground balance...and this location could be far away from the place I was originally hunting at.

But how can you always be sure when you need to adjust your GB or not? I've never used the tracking GB on the Equinox 600, but on my next hunt, I will. The reason is because I think my soil conditions change even if it's not obvious. If I'm hunting a curb strip, then cross the street to hunt a grassy field at my local park, I'll know to adjust my GB or deal with the consequences, w/e they might be. But when moving from one part of a grassy field to another, there's no obvious way (short of digging targets and noticing a pattern b/w VDIs and targets) to know that your ground conditions could be changing in a way to alter your VDIs. And if there is a way, I don't what it is. I've noticed in yards and in parks that a given area might look the same on the surface, but the soil profile is changing depending on where you are. For example, the amount of milder brown/black soil above my mineralized clay lay gets thicker or thinner as you move across a yard or field at a park. Or, older soil is replaced with fill dirt. It's these changing underground conditions (even though the surface seems unchanged) that I think the tracking GB might be helpful for me. We shall see.

I'm fine with the XP's price too. In no way am I condemning what XP is charging...unlike other companies *cough* Garrett *cough*. I'm just saying that for me, XP's higher price is a turn off. But I know I'm just a single potential customer and XP couldn't care less as to what I think. And I know that for many of you who decide not to buy a Deus II, it won't be the price that stops you. People have different ideas as to what something should cost, whether it's golf equipment, gasoline, hamburgers, metal detectors or healthcare.

Good points and I agree 100%! We all have our "price ceilings" for various things in life. For me and metal detectors, it's $1,000 (give or take).

Just speculation, but maybe the changes from the testers are hardware related?

You're probably right. Except I have never considered a Deus (original) due to its high price. From my perspective, it's not just whether the detector is worth it or not (it'll find more than its worth). It's that I consider this a hobby and at a fundamental level, it should only cost "hobby-level prices." In my mind, going over $1,000 turns something from a hobby into a job or a necessity (like a car, fridge, house, etc.). It's like some people will never guy a hamburger than costs $50, no matter how good it tastes. Unless it can cure cancer or is the fountain of youth, most people will just pass and settle for something from a chain restaurant (a la Garrett Ace) or local hamburger shop for a few bucks more (Equinox 600).

Maybe I'm in the minority, but I'm the exact opposite. For the Deus II's MSRP, there's almost no way I'd consider using it given how and where I currently hunt. Even if I somehow won the lottery, I probably wouldn't buy it. Or if found some naive seller who was letting a Deus II go for $200, I wouldn't keep it; I'd flip it. Once a machine breaks the $1,000 barrier, it's really hard for me to justify buying it unless I have a really special (and profitable) application for it. This is just me, though.

Probably because of the averaging, though. The problem with averaging is that the Tesoro is beeping off on an "averaged" target. It's going to be higher than the iron nail, but lower than the clad dime. But how much lower? I guess I could mess with the Discrimination Knob to find out, but I would imagine it's lower than the Zincoln range and would depend on the orientation of the targets, soil conditions, and depth differences b/w the ideal target and the rejected target. A machine going off on an "averaged" target doesn't mean much to a coin shooter like me. That's b/c it could be chunk of aluminum trash as much as it is a clad dime next to an iron nail. And here's the kicker that convinced me to sell the Tesoros: I buried a clad dime next to an iron nail in my backyard about 6 inches down, so well into the highly mineralized clay. The AT Max could pick it up, even in non All Metal mode. The numbers were all over the place, but it picked up on the items in the ground. My Equinox picks up on them too. It also had some variable numbers, although they're more consistent than the AT Max. As for the Vaquero? Unless it was in All Metal mode, it picked up nothing.

It's possible, although when I still had my Vanquish 540, it would chase ghost signals in my mineralized soil consistently, after it had rained. And these were good signals (a distinct high tone in perpendicular directions) and a VDI in the upper 20s to lower 30s. That's exactly what I had here.

That definitely explains a lot, Jeff. Thank you for your insight.

Just as an FYI, when I usually hunt, due to the Equinox separation ability, the only thing I have notched out is iron. So when I swing over a moderately trashing area due to aluminum, I often get the classic "machine gun" series of beeps from my machine. But since I'm hearing individual sounds, I'm capable of listening for the high tone of a coin and can hone in on one if I should hear it. These tests show that if I want to continue hunting in trashy yards and parks (assuming much of the trash is aluminum), I should continue hunting this way and NOT notch out aluminum (as to avoid masking).

I think the differences in performance b/w the Cibola and Vaquero were due to the analog nature of the machines. There's also the fact that there could have been some slight variations in the Discrimination Knob position. I'm not saying that the Vaquero and Cibola should in theory, have performed identically (I don't know that). But what I am saying is that any differences could have been amplified by the simple nature in how the Tesoros work and are adjusted. I did do the tests with no coin present. Neither Tesoro could individually pick up each iron nail consistently. When I lowered the discrimination past Iron, all I usually got was a single beep when swinging over Monte's Modified Nail Board.

It's not bias, it's a hypothesis. When I did some preliminary test on the Monte's Modified Nail Board, I was impressed with the results. I was even debating whether I should keep the Vaquero or Cibola and sell the Equinox! But then I realized it was the coil and most likely, an averaging of the nail and coin values producing the tone. not either Tesoro machine actually having the unmasking and separation ability that exceeds the Equinox. But like Jeff mentioned, these Tesoros seem to do hold their own when it comes to separating targets and unmasking, especially considering how old their tech is.