PimentoUK

'Burnt coil' first: The power put into a detectors coil is VERY small, 10's of milliwatts, enough to light an LED, for example the little red 'standby' light on your TV. So even if this power were increased +50%, it would still be a pathetic amount of power. Nothing will burn, burst into a mass of flaming plastic and copper, explode etc. So any suggestion that Mandingo is capable of such havoc is baloney, and is likely a failed attempt at 'hype'. Only two things of relevance come from "+50% more power": A potential improvement in EMI handling. If there's 23% more voltage on the TX coil, there's +23% more return signal from the target and the ground .... but the EMI signal remains the same. Hence a modest improvement in signal-to-noise ratio, which is useful. Increased current drain on the battery pack. However ... the Eqx draws about 420 mA, from a single Li cell, say 3.8V, hence 1.6 Watts. Of which less than 0.2W [my estimate] is spent driving the coil , the rest is microprocessor / ADC / signal amplifiers / LCD screen/ audio amplifier / wireless TX/RX etc etc. So the new machine will be similar; most power is the inner workings, the 'enhanced' coil power is not a major contributor.

All this talk of "burning out an Eqx coil" is just a steaming pile of horse manure. Please stop it. A more pertinent question is: What is Mandingo doing that the Eqx didn't do ? Here's the Equinox transmitted signal: "The Equinox transmits a complex square-edged waveform, that repeats every 385 microseconds.[ 2600 times per second]. In that waveform are 15 cycles of 39kHz, 7 cycles of 18.2kHz and 3 cycles of 7.8kHz. That is how the operating freqs are related to each other : 7.8k : 18.2k : 39k are ratios of 3 : 7 : 15." This, as it stands is pretty good for: general detecting; low-conductor targeted detecting ( gold jewellery / ancient coins ); nugget hunting. The obvious weaker area is the lack of lower operating frequencies, which should ideally suit the high-conductor coin hunting niche, and potentially be useful in salt-water. The Deus2 can be seen to vary its MF frequency selections depending on mode, for example "Deep HC" uses a lower frequency mix ( 4.76 kHz & 14.3 Khz ). So it's not unreasonable for Mandingo's freq blend to be variable - that alone, I think, is sufficient to warrant badging it "Multi-IQ+". However, there is the X-Y display showing on the LCD screen. If this is anything like the FE/CO FBS system, it requires one l..o..n..g transmit cycle in its waveform to perform a 'Pseudo-PI' transmission. This is not possible with the Eqx's Multi-IQ waveform, there's simply too many high-freq signals in it. One possibility is they have created a mash-up of FBS and Multi-IQ. If the above waveform lasting 385 microsecs was alternated with a single cycle of 2.6 kHz, there would then be enough time to do the Pseudo-PI, and hence generate the "FE" signal of the FBS system. FBS uses a single cycle of 3.125kHz, so 2.6kHz is similar enough, and probably slightly better, at allowing this 'trick'. A down-side of this may be that there will be a slowing-down of the performance, much like the CTX is slower than the Eqx, due to the main TX waveform only being transmitted half as often. So it may be a user option: if you want 'CTX-style', you get slower response, if you choose 'Eqx-style', you get the speed.

Quote: "Mr. Lawrie clearly stated .. Minelab redesigned the handle so it can hold TWO 18650 3.7 volt lithium ion batteries........as opposed to the one 18650 3.7v in the Equinox." Correction: The Eqx has a single 26650 cell: this is 26mm x 65mm, so it's fat, but not using up much of the available length of the handgrip. I did propose they used a single 21700 size cell in the "New Equinox" , as that has comparable performance to the 26650, but suits a handgrip shape better. However ... you guys are failing to understand modern electronics. Voltages can, and ARE, routinely stepped up, stepped down, inverted, to suit whatever are the needs of the appliance. If +5 Volts is needed, that can be created from a single Lithium cell. If +10V and -10V is needed, it can be done. Etc etc. So whether a gadget uses one Li cell or two or three, or a pair of 1.5V alkaline cells, it has essentially NO relevance to the power consumption / performance / whatever. ( plus .. two cells can be series or parallel-connected. It wouldn't surprise me if ML have the two 18650's in parallel, and are keeping as much of the existing Eqx circuit design as possible. )

I'm with those who consider "50% more power" mainly a marketing thing. However ..... The 'Power' put into a transmit coil is a perfectly measureable characteristic, and it's nearly all heat in the copper windings, hardly any is truly transmitted into the ether or the earth/soil/dirt. And it's usually in the 10's of milliwatts for single-freq machines, and likely below 50 mW even on MF machines like the Eqx. And if you apply more volts to the coil, your power supplied to the coil goes up. A "50% increase" works out as 23% more voltage ( and 23% more coil current ). This could help in the quest for more depth, but is also beneficial when dealing with EMI , probably the more useful thing about it. And the effect on depth ? Boring mathematics about magnetic field decay ( inverse cube response ) tells me the expected air-depth gain would be +3.8% . This assumes the same receiver gain, etc etc., which is very unlikely to be the case - it's a new machine. ------ I think it's likely that what makes the 'plus' in the Multi-IQ+ is such things as completely different operating frequency selections, depending on the mode choice. This is a perfectly reasonable thing, and one XP chose for the Deus2.

Many modern detectors use a fair bit of analogue front-end processing, then a modest microcontroller to do further signal processing. So there's a point where you'll find typically two demodulated DC signals ( Resistive and Reactive components ) , ready to feed into an ADC, probably 12 - 14 bits resolution. If your hardware piggybacks onto these signals, eg. possibly Arduino type sub-systems, you should be able to achieve your goal. And I recommend you sign up to the Geotech1 forum, where there's plenty of technical info, such as schematics of many detectors that could be the starting point for your project. There's also the thread "Let's build a PC-based detector" , which may be interesting to you: https://www.geotech1.com/forums/showthread.php?14102-Let-s-made-a-PC-base-metal-detector-with-usb-interface-!!! The general Geotech forum index: https://www.geotech1.com/forums/forum.php

Fellers? I'm just one, not a consortium. Best depth is achieved with disc set to Zero or 1. Set Disc to about 11 if you want to lose lots of depth... maybe if you have bad EMI, it could help deal with it, as an addition to lowering the sensitivity.

To get to the 'disc mode', you need to press the mode button until the highlighted option is the top-most one. Then turn the rotary control counter-clockwise one click, and the disc mode is highlighted. Then the mode button will cycle through the left menu. The 'notch' feature is a mess. Poorly designed, poorly documented in the user manual. And you can't assume " Well I never use it, so it's not an issue" , because it's very easy to inadvertently put in some notch. Then the problems start. Thankfully, a simple solution exists: Factory Reset. Learn and relearn how to do this, and 'notch nightmare' is not a problem.

Ferrites are shinier and silver-grey colour. They are normally extremely hard, you can't abrade them; scratch them with a knife, you get a silver steel streak on the ferrite. Powdered iron is duller and blacker, and is medium-hard. With effort, you can scrape off small bits, and strong abrasives like silicon-carbide paper will remove it. So the ML ring is powdered-iron. The colour isn't very informative ... they might just have painted it black themselves to hide the manufacturers part marking. The 'Doc' toroid seems typical of ferrite: shiny, hard. But ferrite is almost always electrically non-conductive, though I have read about some that will conduct ... I have no idea what type. 38 Ohms is surprisingly low. Again, color coding is hard to interpret .. yellow with one white face is typical of Type 26 ferrite blend. Edit: It is the very-high mu ferrites that are electrically-conductive ( mu over 5000 typically ), and I've just measured one example ( probably mu=15000) in my 'bits box', and it reads 200 Ohms across its diameter. That may be indicative of the 'Doc' ring material. Jason: Do you have an inductance meter? Wind 50 turns of enamelled copper wire on each toroid ( diameter 0.15 to 0.6mm, not important ), and see what an L meter gives. I guess the ML one will measure about 30 microhenry. The 'Doc' sample may be anything, up to 20 millihenry.

A few observations from an electronics guy, who has used these toroids. There are two distinct 'types' of material used in these toroids: Powdered Iron, and Ferrite. 'Powdered iron' is ultra-fine iron dust, that is produced by chemical reaction, (rather than mechanical grinding etc ). There are some similar nickel-iron alloys ( eg. Permalloy) and other exotics like Sendust that can also be considered 'Powdered iron'. 'Ferrite' is non-metallic ( officially a ceramic ) that's essentially rust ( iron oxide ) with small quantities of metals like zinc, manganese blended into it. This is turned into fine powder by mechanical grinding, and then moulded. They have quite different magnetic properties. Powdered irons have low magnetic permeability, (mu), typically varying from 1 to 100. Ferrites generally have higher mu, from 50 up to 15000. Minelab specify a low-mu powdered-iron toroid, not ferrite, for detector balancing: Quote: "A ‘dust iron’ toroid suitable for the HF frequency band (e.g.1–30MHz with an initial permeability of between 6 and 10) has been carefully selected." Regarding colour-coding: It's primarily a powdered-iron thing, even then, different manufacturers have different coding, and there's plenty of different materials/blends that it's not worth trying to identify a toroid by colour. Magnetic testing will tell you much more. Ferrites have no useful colour-codes, and are often unpainted, as they are naturally corrosion-resistant. So if you're wanting to self-select a toroid for detector set-up, you want permeability, mu, of 6 -> 10, and a physical size that's vaguely the same as the ML suggested type, though it's not critical. For reference, here's Amidon Corporations data sheet for ferrite and iron cores ( pdf ) http://www.amidoncorp.com/product_images/Amidon-Tech-Data-Flyer-v19.pdf

I see the word 'Quartz' among the 'metal type' list ... a bit of a red flag to me. It makes me wonder if it's related to some kind of 'esoteric' detector , the kind that have five radio antennas on them, and a bottle of Gypsy Tears inside the handle.

Any thoughts? Yes, actually. See the missing suite of components ... four 'large' electrolytic caps, a three-pin device ( switching FET, usually ) and a large damping resistor, and the silk-screen legend 'Coil2'. Enough bits to drive a second coil winding. Those who have followed Alex's design from the early days will know how he had plans for some 'twin-coil' arrangement, that apparently could largely cancel the ground/salt signal. He posted up some 'sketches' over on Geotech1 forum, but no-one could make out what he was describing. https://www.geotech1.com/forums/showthread.php?23177-Manta-Metal-Detector The other obvious stand-out is the thermal management. I think if they had made the case a bit larger, they would've given themselves an easier time when it comes to heat-dissipation issues.

That's a more realistic way of doing it, and the existing Deus coil electronics will work fine. The topic of a two-box that runs multi-frequency came up some years ago on the Geotech1 forum. But no-one could work out if it would have any real benefits over a single-freq. Having selectable single frequencies would be good, and multi-freq machines like the Equinox and Deus2 both do this. The Deus2 would have the advantage of being capable of operating at any frequency the designers wanted, including very low ( 1 kHz- 5 kHz range). Maybe if this XP two-box ever makes it to customers, it would be Deus2 compatible. The primary advantage of multi-freq is its ability to eliminate the ground signal. As two-box machines are used with the coil well clear of the ground, they will obviously pick up less ground signal, so maybe the benefits of multi-freq are largely lost.

It might be an idea to put a question mark '?' in your title, I suspect I'm not going to be the last to look at this thread to see what new features ML are giving us with this surprising update ....

That will be SAW for sawtooth, I imagine.

Advice? Large piles of silver coins are very scarce. I recommend just living with this 'feature' , and get out there finding plenty of stuff that the Simplex will detect. Detectors aren't perfect, they'll happily tell you iron is non-iron, they'll call non-iron items iron if they're deep/weak/close to iron/on-edge etc etc. Just as a matter of curiosity, are your 'Investment grade' coins .999 fine, or are they 0.90 coin alloy? The difference in electrical conductivity is noticeable, and a pile of quarters/half-dollar coins will not read like a few one-ounce US Mint proofs.

For information about the Pulse Star 2 detector, I recommend joining the Geotech1 forum. You will find several discussions about this machine. For example this one: https://www.geotech1.com/forums/showthread.php?25437-Pulse-Star-II-(first-analog-version)

Quote:"Their machines are made for big brute Aussies" The Equinox isn't that heavy. The lower rod is proper wound carbon fibre ( rather than moulded plastic loaded with carbon fibres ) , so it's pretty light and stiff. And if you examine the aluminium rods, you will find they are not a standard wall thickness, the are noticeably thinner. Imperial 7/8" size tubes typically have wall thickness of 48 thou, 50 thou, 58 thou ( 1.22mm , 1.27mm , 1.47mm ) , and these are what you find on many detectors, ( and hospital crutches, radio antennas etc ). The Equinox uses 40 thou / 1mm wall thickness tubes, and so are lighter as a result. It feels a bit heavy because the stock 11" coil is large as 'standard' coils go, and a heavy coil will always be felt, being situated on the end of a long shaft. You are right in saying a 9" coil as a 'stock' option may have been a good marketing strategy.

Easy to hoax, just fix the Deus coil under the table.

My PC is not a super up-to-date one, that kind of stuff probably won't work. Pretty soon, it will fail to handle YouTube completely, I regularly get warnings about it.

Quote Chase: "I don’t know what you are referring to when you say a target’s “frequency”" I suspect you may have missed my earlier thread about calibrating the Equinox VDI scale: ( I will edit my earlier post in this thread to link to it ) A target's "frequency" is that detector frequency which causes it to have a 45 degrees phase lag ( or 90+45 degrees, depending on your 'reference' phase). Or ... you can alternatively measure what phase lag it has at some other frequency, and mathematically calculate what the '45 degree lag' frequency would be. A target can essentially be modelled as an inductor with a resistor connected to its ends. So it has a 'first-order' response, much the same as a first-order low-pass filter you may be familiar with from electronic engineering studies. These can be R-C, or L-R filters. The relevant behaviour is that feeding it with a very low frequency produces very little phase lag; drive it with a very high frequency, you will approach 90 degrees lag. The 45 degree lag point is when the driven frequency matches the 'filter' frequency: f = 1/(2*pi*R*C) = R / ( 2*pi*L) It's actually possible to use a real inductor-resistor combination as a target, they work well. Alternatively, a closed wire loop is viable: though the L and R values are tiny and practically unmeasureable, they can ( with difficulty ) be calculated, hence the target frequency can be determined.

Taken from a D2 thread on Geotech1: Here is what you get adding f and 3f sinewaves, with about 20% more amplitude on the 3f wave: [below] Now square it up, and there's the Deep-HC waveform. PWM-type f/3f waveforms don't at all resemble two sine-waves added together. Neither does a simple f square-wave ( eg. Fisher CZ ), which also suffers from a much lower 3f amplitude ( about 1/3rd the fundamental ), which can give noise-related issues.

Yes, the lower freq mix of 'deep-HC' ( compared to the other modes, or compared to the Eqx 7.8k/18.2k/39k mix ) is what could give the edge when hunting high-conductor targets. And It's something I've postulated ( in other threads ) ML could implement on the Eqx ... but it's possibly been tried and is not significantly different, or it raises other issues, like the coil being 'not so hot' at the lower limit of its range. Power consumption is higher for low frequencies because the impedance of an inductor ( the TX coil ) falls as driven frequency falls, in direct proportion. And low impedance means higher current flow, basic electronics maths. Unless you take steps to counteract it, such as reducing drive voltage, like XP have done. However, I did a lot of analysis of the waveform over on Geotech1, and there's another possible reason: If you add sine-waves of f and 3f together, with similar amplitudes, you get a resulting waveform that closely resembles the D2's 'deep-HC' signal. This multi-level signal may offer techy benefits... one possibility is: obtaining a faster response could be easier if the demodulated waveform is 'cleaner', being more sinusoidal than those produced by the 8/24k modes, for example.

So, here's my frequency analysis post resurrected, plus an additional Youtube video on the topic: A poster on the Geotech1 forum found this Youtube video, showing a 'scope examination of the coil drive voltage: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2AYJp2uH2U It's not really worth watching, it's dull and nerdy, and in Russian or Ukranian, I just included it so you know I'm not making stuff up ... So it's broadly similar to the Equinox / DFX , forcing complex square-edged signals onto the transmit coil. I have no idea what Mr. Youtuber is saying, so I just observed what was shown, and interpreted it from an engineers view. The modes: P1 : General P2 : Sensitive P3 : Sens FT P4 : Fast P8 : GoldField P12 : Beach; all run at 8.08 kHz & 40.4 kHz, a 1:5 ratio. ----- P5 : Park P9 : Relic P11 : Beach; all run 8.08 kHz & 24.24 kHz, a 1:3 ratio. ----- P6 : Deep HC P10 : Dive; both run 4.76 kHz & 14.3 Khz, a 1:3 ratio ( not unlike the Fisher CZ range, but a different waveform shape ) ----- P7 : Mono, does what you'd expect, a single freq square-wave, just like the Equinox. It looks like P6 / P10 run a three-level waveform, possibly to reduce power consumption, obviously important for a coil with a small internal battery. How they process the freqs is of course the important bit. It's probably safe to say the GoldField mode is going to emphasise the 40 kHz. And the Deep HC will be using the 4.76 kHz as it's dominant one, to target the milled copper/silver coins. Another Youtube video on the subject: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0QgAVNWaDD4

"Have you noticed ,nobody's mentioned 'em?" Nobody's mentioned the frequencies ? There was this thread, that you yourself posted on, featuring a Youtube video posted by a Russian Deus2 owner, showing the transmitted signals on an oscilloscope. I analysed the results, listing all the frequencies for the various modes: https://www.detectorprospector.com/forums/topic/17500-deus-2-may-be-first-multi-freq-multi-freq-detector/ It doesn't seem to work now, I believe I know what happened... so I will re-post the info later.

This MD-Arena teardown shows the Simplex has a foil-pouch LiPo size 804060 ( that's 8mm x 40mm x 60mm ), with nominal capacity 2300 mAh. There's a possibility you could obtain a cell with slightly higher capacity ( 2400mAh ) in this size, if squeezing an extra half-hour run-time is helpful. https://md-arena.com/razborka-nokta-simplex-plus-foto-otchet-chto-vnutri-metalloiskatelya