argyle

Yeah huge selection that fit both Racers. But not the Relic or Gold Racer or AUgoldfinder yet. It shouldn't take Nel long though to produce them. They usually jump on the production of accessory coils across their entire range ie: Attack/Snake/Sharpshoorer... once a unit has been spread across the market. I have a personal beef with them over one unit's range, but other than that, the quality and lightweight coils they produce have such a variety in size and shape that they've hit the top rung amongst the aftermarket coil makers, and the benefits to us is enormous.

That's gotta be more than handy for the new Sport owners. Once they can get their hands on the adaptors they'll be getting full use out of their units. The aftermarket mod guys, you've really got to hand it to them...

Yep, CoRe did well on it. Hence one of the reasons why I kept mine. The entire range they have now do very well with non-ferrous hints close to full iron-halo hits. As for other models, I couldn't think of one I've ever owned that would fail it, in fact some would surpass all the units he had in his line up. The new Relic with all its three disc modes, beach mode, swift mode and the general threshold based all metal mode, just may very well suit you for all your needs Terry. Two coils on purchase, plus the other two in large and a solid elliptical. Then the aftermarkets from other makers. Considering we used to pay $1400-$1600 for a single coil non discriminating unit twenty something years ago, they are an extremely attractive package nowdays. The original coils are black to boot, so no worries in the sunshine or under light at night, as opposed to the white coils on other models. (the persistence of manufacturers that make white glaring coils is a real bug-bear of mine)

Oh for sure Terry, a lot of exceptions to rule regarding single freq disc units on wet beaches. And you may have beaches not far from you that'll let the units run free. The first clip is a prime example of nice conductive (conductive to detector signal response) wet sand. And you won't have a problem with any single freq unit on that area. With the exception of accidentally dipping the control box over into a scoop hole, or the worry of salt corrosion to your unit of course. Unfortunately you come across wet salt sand that is extremely un-conductive to them. Yeah, the guy in the second clip did seem visibly disappointed in the CTX, but as the FBS boys will tell you, he hasn't learnt his trade on it yet, and contradicts himself many times. Maybe not on purpose, but enough to let you know he's still in his apprenticeship with one and hasn't nutted out the settings past the most basic of understanding. The planting and resetting of dirt back in on a large fresh hole, and a coin with a half decomposed nail sat on top of it, does not bring you anywhere near a real world test. The hardpacked un-dug ground is missing, and the decomposing halo from the nail has gone. The closest you would come to that situation in real life, is if you were say detecting a park that is being re-dug and landscaped by machinery, and you are detecting either the heaps half way through the works, or at the end when the soil has been replaced and or renewed. Then you may come across a 6" coin with non-decomposed iron on top or beside it. But don't let the clips put you off anything. You noticed how well the CoRe handled itself, and by listening to both the tone of the unit and the threshold in General setting, you probably have a good feeling for the machine already. You just wait till you bust open the zipper on a ProPack ...then the fun begins. Another thing I think is important is the Audio on YouTube detector clips. A lot of time the Audio is quite different than in real life. I notice it a lot with my Android phones video camera. Even voices are way off the chart. When you watch a clip of a Racer 2 for instance, don't take any notice of the squawking or 'quacking sounds. The units audio is much more pleasurable in real life.

Hi Terry. There's a saying I've been using most of my life, I didn't make it up so I guess I heard it as a kid. It Will All Even Out In The Wash. And I reckon this saying applies with your current conundrum in trying to decide which Nokta/Makro unit to purchase for an All-Rounder. But I think you have to take wet salt beach water out of the equation. No single freq unit will come out on top for you here. Because the only units, as you know, that are adaptable enough to handle the full on saltwater are vlf bbs/fbs units and the pulse induction units across many brands. Dry sand well above the waterline is no worries, as are the tracks into the beach and sand around the car parks and dunes. That leaves you needing a coin/relic/jewellery/dry sand/ goldfield unit amongst the Nokta Makro range. I've lost count now of your choices, but I think 8 sounds about right, with a very strong coil range across the board. When you choose the one unit and three coils it simply will not matter which model it is, as there will always be an advantage at a certain site, ground type or purpose with that unit over others in the line up, and distinct disadvantages with it in comparison, and they will change for you on a daily basis. It will not really matter which model you end up with, you simply cannot lose with your choice, because in the end after learning and getting used to your new unit over the variety of uses you put it through, you'll know exactly how it'll behave in all scenarios, giving you both the knowledge and the confidence to hunt-on regardless of the trade-offs you've made between it and another model in the range. It Will All Even Out In The Wash. Don made a nice post on I think one of the AU Goldfinder threads, about how his AU hit nicely on a 5 gram piece at 5 inches in hot dirt, yet the F19 carried not a murmur on it in all metal. It's a perfect example of trade-offs. As the AU flew the flag on this, he'll know exactly which unit and coil he will be taking on his next hunt over a similar ground type, but may find in a month that the F19 came out on top on either a milder ground type using a different coil size and so on. You've noticed the handgrip trigger set up on the Noktas, and the s-rods on the AU and Makro. The different displays on them versus side-box, front up, and nice old-school dials on the AU. It may end up coming down to the ergonomic choices versus display for you. The ID and iSAT correlation has been improved on them now. Gold Racer is behaving well and it's jewellery abilities places it a step up. The AU is a beaut for re-mounting or for leaving stock and carries what I think is the perfect way for myself to detect - balancing on the fly with no concentration needed. The Relic models carry nice advantages to them, As do all Racer models. But yeah, you cannot make a regrettable choice. Although if there were only two models it'd be a heck of a lot easier, but we'd lose the advantage of the nice choices on offer so we gotta be thankful for that. I'd like to see you buy and gell with one soon, and really nut the unit out before you head off on the nugget trip. So from one soldier to another.. It's time to step up Marine ...

No worries at all and thanks Terry... I think they are only not as mineralized across the board. But... I have a couple of friends that are Cal natives and they hit both California and Arizona, and in no uncertain terms they let me know that they have more than enough nasty ground types to deal with. Just no getting away from that in on any country's goldfield's I guess. I wish there were a magic bullet amongst the discriminating units. But... they are much more refined now in where you can set your Tone breaks. So that benefit is there to at least get a slight 'cackle' from a shallow piece of iron/tin instead of our old full-on grunt. Probably the worst part of shallow small iron in gold-bearing ground, is the halo from degradation causing a much larger signal response for its size, having the unit thereby leaving adjacent or deeper whispers un-heard. But you're right, for quickness and necessity it can still be a rewarding session using disc. Just remember, the harder more compact sun-hardend hotter ground will negate the use of discrimination to near surface only. You will get a bit more play and disc at better depth in the Wash type gully's though. Good luck with your 5000 too out on the gold, you may just find you won't want to use anything else, especially if you have a small coil like a detech 8"DD or one of coiltek/minelab/nuggetfinder smaller coils. June/July, that's your summer isn't it? Take it slow the first couple of days Terry. I made a huge mistake early in this summer and very nearly got the body-meltdown full on headache hallucination thing happening by not watching my water versus coffee intake. Oh and just by and by, do you use a VLF at the moment for coins/relics or whatever, and what model is it?

Hi Terry... The only depth advantage the 5000, or any Minelab PI from the SD2000 onwards, has over good VLF on benign ground like tailing/mullock/queit gully's, be it one in the Minelab VLF platform range to the current high gain output VLF's we see today from America and Europe, is the ability to run large Mono coils. Coil size pound for pound on good even ground types, a good example being 14"DD as the were typically the largest we could get that were any good, but not that it mattered as 14.5" round on a VLF DD is the largest you can go for depth as signal response degrades and splay's from then on up. In benign ground and with a good VLF unit running a 14"DD, and any PI running a 14"DD ....no difference in depth period. Even if the tailings contain heavy mineralization, because the ground has been broken up, it does not hinder the VLF's like it would in hardened un-dug ground. As for hot rocks/cold rocks, they affect our PI's as well, sometimes for the better regarding judgement, sometimes worse. As for discrimination ... a heck of a lot of guys use it on VLF's nugget hunting. Personally I'd rather put a little bit more work in. All units will degrade gold with any discriminating unit, and at any level of iron reject setting, depending on shape, size and depth of the nugget or specimen. Also the actual gold content versus silver/copper and manganese, ironstone ect. I don't trust them and never have. Far too much 7"gold can sound out like 2" tin when disc is brought in to bare. We've got to get down and dig at some stage, may as well be more often than not I reckon. Picture yourself on a large mullock heap, sorry Tailing Pile, with your 5000 hooked up with a big or even medium sized Mono. The weight of it, even bungied up, and the balance of it versus your stance. Now picture yourself with a superlight VLF with 13"-14" coil on it, working at three times the speed....and punching that gain deep. Make a pleasurable day for you Terry...

Discounting general un-dug hardened ground, and concentrating on the type of 'pushed material in the form of broken up tailings you mention like Ganes Creek (I've never been there of course) and detecting the big un-pushed high tailing piles (we call them mullock heaps)... I wouldn't take my PI at all. No advantage over VLF's in these scenarios whatsoever. Simply leave it at home, and take your pick from from any VLF unit that can really punch the gain through tailings, and run an 11" round and up, preferably 13" and larger. Many to choose from, F19's/G2's GMT and 14" elliptical coil are beaut, as are nearly all the Euro units. They all put much more gain through than say a Bug2 and you won't be missing out on anything. You could use any of the Makro Nokta units as they run larger coils and the ground will not be hot. As Chris has pointed out the Makro's are 5/8ths useless on fair dinkum hot ground, and some types will have them on permanent overload, whereas other VLF's handle that same ground extremely well. But you will not have to worry about that when working Tailings. Personally I'd be happy taking an F19 or Fors CoRe or an EDS unit, and use no discrimination whatsoever, and dig endless iron and junk to get at the gold. (Every unit you use with disc, will at some stage degrade a nugget to Iron, and Murphy's Law clearly states it will be the largest deepest nugget in the heap) The 3030 and all BBS/FBS units are vastly overrated as discriminating gold digging units. On hot ground they are useless, even though they'll hit and give nice response to gold near surface, and plenty of people have hit gold with them including myself with Sovereigns and a Quattro, they will degrade a nugget response to Iron more often and shallower than other other disc'ing vlf's. Regardless of anyone's special settings. And on tailing piles, nowhere near as deep as the higher gain units. The only thing you need do, is clearly by ear, define Cold Rock and Hot Rock responses as accurately as you can without losing a dig. Good luck Terry...

Great post Steve ...kudos. The audio and separation problems were picked up by most quickly from a couple of clips. John knew instantly re: the Whites comparison showmanship. But wait till the failure of the digital Prospecting Mode really hits home. Then there's really going to some whinging. But I aren't going into it. I've had enough of bagging detectors. It's almost becoming a common chore for me. From here on in I'm not mentioning another dud model again ....only well constructed good units that operate at a nice peak performance level for this day and age will I bother chatting about from here on in.

Li-ion recycle timage...

Then we'd better hope another larger company does not 'buy them out' and put progress on hold, as we know they are willing to withhold tech until a units worth has run it's course. If a PI is in the works then all is good. It wouldn't take much application on Nokta/Makro's part to produce a much finer unit than Garrett and Whites have. A simplistist hot ground handling PI unit carrying a smooth true threshold and nice coil range, lightweight and without nonsense like discrimination or co-pilot menu systems and ridiculous sub menu gps nonsense would be extremely easy for them to develop. But the giving up on VLF would be a big mistake by a company. I've always said the future is in VLF and not pulse induction. Minelab gave up VLF progression on purpose in my belief. Solely due to the fact that they have had the nous and technology to produce one years ago that would lay the GPX platform to rest. And could have mass manufactured them at around the $1000 mark. So kick on Nokta ....and don't take a penny.

I never realised the Impact would be a Triple Frequency...

Bingo and you beauty...

This really is the true Gold Detecting unit amoung the Nokta/Makro range. Stock 10"x5.5" and small 5" in the initial purchase bundle, and can be mounted on a straight shaft in front of the handgrip, no childlike s/rod to put up with ...very nice. So it shares the Gold Racer coils? Running the 15"x13" with it's iSAT causing a nice electronic halo to keep the Threshold from wavering over changeable ground, and the ability to run the unit manually balanced (riding the ground balance dial on the fly without stopping to balance by letting your hearing judge the ground) Higher kHz for smaller pieces, yet on a unit that can push the gain through hot ground ....automatically places this unit in contention and butt-up against the best hot ground handling VLF's ever made. I swear to God, if this unit can be adjusted to handle the types of ground we gold detectorists need it to, and operates at the level I believe it will do.... I'll purchase 2 units, with two 15x13 coils, and not use another VLF or PI again...period! And that is coming from someone that has knocked and ridiculed Nokta from day one.

I like the look of that country more every time you post up pics CalGold.... keep it up.

Other than a Gold Bug 2, I've used Goldmaster's from the GM11,VSat, 3, GMT, a large variety of early minelab VLF's to current, and quite a few Euro high gain output units along with three Fishers with ggrab. To be honest, any of the mid to higher freq units are ideal, and light, for that type of work (for myself it's chasing an off-shoot vein both inside and offside of old reef workings) but as the majority of these carry their fair share of unbroken ironstone in the form of very powdery honeycomb type, ironstone/quartz cake and the heavy cooked solid types, along with red liverstone, the minelab vlf's do hold a distinct advantage over the more sparky units. It is reversed in quartz/clay type reef. The higher gain output units push much more deeper here with a heap more sensitivity, and allow for fiercer digging. And performance is pretty much on par across the board between them so I do not necessarily have a favorite. As for the SDC, I found them more cumbersome than the lightweight higher gain output VLF's, and not hitting any deeper or handling the noisier rock any better, in fact some of the slanted shale they particular hate and are 5/8ths useless through it. I would bother with a Falcon, probably one of the most useless pieces of equipment I've ever owned.

"Taking the Piss" would be a pretty universal saying around the world by now, wouldn't it....

Sorry, I should have been clearer. Bottlecaps as in the fat non-crinkled version, as opposed to twist-tops. Although it really does not matter as some coins like your zinc cents will give the exact same degradation at height as a twist-top. You'll find most deep coins will, as will most deep cap types. There is another of your coins too, but I simply cannot remember which, has the same make-up and ID as one of ours. And all ID units will pop both caps and twist-tops straight into a couple of those good coinage segments. Only units with full-on tricks and the right coil will keep the Cap ratio low. If a smaller hot closed concentric had of been available as the stock coil it would not have been such of a problem and would have helped with audio ID much better in the form of a couple of far better tricks for Cap ID on the Sport. But, they stuck to an All Round MXT digitalized platform for the MXSport, so the big DD it is. Although, the reason they made this unit a Multi-purpose one has me baffled. Rushing the Treasuremaster and TreasuremasterPro onto the scene (they should really have been a Single unit) and not waiting a few months to put it in a Waterproof Sport housing lacked common sense. Then this new unit could have been the best prospecting VLF Whites have made to date. Carrying both Digitalzed versions of the MXT and GMT ...Excellent Ground Grab and SAT speed correlation with gain, twin frequencies of 14kHz and 50 kHz, and coils to match all uses. Though they would have had to have engineered a far better Ground Tracking into it. 2 units - MXSport coin/relic/jewellery - MXSport Prospecting. Multipurpose units always leave something lacking.

About component problems, yep it happens quite consistently amongst all manufacturers. But waiting 6 months I cannot do. The engineers and testers really have to get outside more! Nearly all of the problems we are finding with units could have been addressed well before release. I mean, these are educated people making simple electronics on nice budgets. Or are they really savant's that are so overendowed with genius that they cannot tie their own shoelaces or take one of their own designed detectors out for a real world hunt.

Another very important issue for coin hunters with our digitized units is the dreaded bottlecap segmentation and tone issue. Far too many manufacturers units are very bad at differentiating the caps verses coins. Nokta/Makro are addressing this problem. A few Minelab units have nice secrets to fully distinguish the problem to a very acceptable level. And other units have their little tricks too, again to an acceptable level. Unfortunately the MXSport is a total dud in this regard.

I've got to thank those that go through the trouble and time of making detector clips for others to watch. Much appreciated by myself and I'm sure others. Could be a lot of downside to the MXSport. Does not seem stable in either tone or numerical ID even on benign ground. Rain proof, yeah no worries there, suits me. But this so called Multi Purpose unit sure seems weak in many areas. And the all metal mode seems extremely weak, much like the MXT is weak in comparison to the GMT. I'm not necessarily having a go at Whites or the new MXSport, merely talking about Audio and numerical segmentation across the board with nearly all manufacturers units made today and in the previous few years. Audio is so important to us for identifying both targets and ground make-up when detecting, and a pleasant audio when the volume is set for each individual hearing is paramount for long detecting sessions and extremely important for no residual hearing damage. But I gotta say that there is no way I could have those horrible tones or squelchy threshold in my hearing longer than 5 minutes. But that is common on Whites units, SST, MX5, M6. Also the grating flutey tone of FBS, horrible. Even the buzzing all metal threshold of the F19, which is a favorite unit of mine, I think in the end I'll suffer the hearing damage I had for a while from Sovereigns years ago. I think Whites and all other company's have a long way to go yet for improvement of both Tone and Numerical, or decisive Segment Placing, and by now it should have been done. It's the year 2016. There is no excuse for it. It is bad engineering! We are only just starting to see the beginning of true Ergonomic Shafts. But I think it it will be years before we see nice Audio come along again. Kinda makes you want to go back to an old clear single tone ground balancing unit with a small to mid coil on and judge a targets size and depth by ear again. I swear some of those 20 year old detectors are leaps and bounds ahead of most of the newcomers. The engineering teams that group-up for the planning of a machine most definitely should have an engineering Audio Specialist as leader of the group.

Priceless day .....barr the poison oak of coarse.

I've got very lazy last few years and haven't made Leather gear for ages. In fact I think the only tool I have left is a punch. I used to Tan my own hides years ago and stitch/button press different pouches amoung other things. But used to buy in cow hide as it sucked-up far too much of my tanning formula it just wasn't worth it. I prefer leather to all the Hardware store made in china tradesman pouches made out of the newer material, they look pretty tardy after a few months. I love the handmade gear, and need another pinpointer pouch and trash pouch as well as a couple of battery holding pouches, not to mention detector box covers with stitched on Velcro all made with cowhide ....But it's very hard to find a leather craftsman nowdays.

You use an Android phone Ray? If you hit on Steve's No1 - Go to Photo Gallery link above, then when that page loads (it should show Steve's Gold Bug and other of his Album pics as he was the last person to upload .....Just scroll to the bottom of the page and the Bar says ADD IMAGES - .....Hit that and follow the prompts to name your own Gallery and upload away. You can add and load heaps at a time.

Different units make my trash/gold ratio change. SDC and GMT coming to mind first ....so many tiny pieces. But as I specifically target heavily junked areas most times (both modern and old iron/tin upon rich diggings, my junk ratio is extremely high. Takes a awful lot of effort to accept the work and patience needed, but the rewards are worth it. When I've had a gutful after a few days, I'll get back the general detecting again, mainly to give the knees a rest.