Thanks! Steve. I have different sizes and types of wire gold specimens that I have found and you are welcome anytime to get together in the future.

Steve, here is one example I found of the type of wire gold that a PI will not detect. The mass of wires is about the size of a fifty cent coin with only a portion exposed in the picture. The GMT will give a very strong audio response while a PI cannot detect it.

Here are before (when I found it) and after (some cleaning in acid) pictures:

12 hours ago, Steve Herschbach said:

Again, I would not expect the alternatives to match a hot VLF in absolute terms. And it is shades of gray, not black and white, since every specimen is unique. The basic question being presented here is what alternative to a hot VLF has the best chance of finding at least some of the types of specimens we are talking about. A redesigned TDI might do it or the QED by all accounts. But sticking with current mainstream devices in my experience the SDC 2300 is about as good as it it gets at the moment. I actually think based on what I know about the technology that the GPZ 7000 is superior, but it needs a smaller coil to really exceed what the SDC 2300 can do. The SDC is a very fact PI but it is still a PI. Pulse induction by definition has a delay between the transmit and receive modes designed to eliminate the responses from bad ground and hot rocks. The type of gold we are talking about falls into that short delay area. It is ironic but it is the ability to react to bad ground and hot rocks that gives a high frequency detector its ability to find porous and wire gold.

The GPZ is not a PI, but a hybrid that employs constant current electronics with time domain processing. The GPZ truly is more a super VLF than a PI detector. That is why it struggles with salt ground and hot rocks the SDC and other PI detectors can ignore. That is also why it is inherently more capable of detecting the type of gold we are talking about. It is why I am anxious to get a small coil for the GPZ.

What is needed is a very fine degree of tuning to ride the fine line between reducing ground and hot rock signals while still retaining as many gold signals as possible. The two overlap. Part of the problem I am seeing is detectors like the SDC and GPZ having a few preset tuning positions. What is needed is more like an infinite potentiometer that would allow the operator to achieve very tiny adjustments in order to get the degree of differentiation needed when dealing with the ferrous/salt/gold overlap area.

In theory the pulse delay on a PI can be shortened to the point where the responses are indistinguishable from a VLF. The delay gets so short that for all practical purposes there is no delay. The ability to make that adjustment is one way to do things. In the GPZ it is done more through post detection processing of the signal. The technology is there, we just need finer control over it. At the end of the day however, just like for every gold jewelry item there is a aluminum item that reads the same, there will be gold that perfectly overlaps with certain ground and salt responses. Eliminating the undesired item eliminates the desired item with it.

"The GPZ truly is more a super VLF than a PI detector." That is a very interesting statement. So would a  GPZ 7000 with a smaller coil have the potential to find sub-grain and possibly porous and wire type gold? How much of a smaller coil size that would be practical and still maintain deep seeking qualities? Is there engineer with Minelab that could develop a coil that would detect porous and wire type gold? If the GPZ 7000 is more like a super VLF type of a detector I would think that this would be possible. I appreciate any thoughts you may have on this.

36 minutes ago, Steve Herschbach said:

Have you tried your gold on either the SDC 2300 or GPZ 7000? They will not match a hot VLF but are the best of the alternatives.

We tried the SDC 2300 and had the same results. We tried the TDI with a small 7.5 Dual Field coils and still cannot detect that type of gold, but we haven't had the opportunity to try the GPZ 7000. The other thing I failed to mention is the area has a abundance of nails which makes using a PI a little less attractive, but finding a nice gold specimen that a VLF would miss would be a trade off I could deal with.

14 hours ago, Steve Herschbach said:

What machines are you using Glenn?

We are using the White's GMT. The area we hunt is mostly mild ground with hot rocks that will give a overload signal on the detector. I believe the Gold Bug 2 would do as well or maybe even better because of it's high operating frequency. Some of this type of crystalline gold specimens we find becomes invisible when using a PI detector. It would be great if a PI detector or some new technology would be able to detect this type of gold as it would open up the area we are hunting in because of the increase in depth and manage the hot rocks better.

3 hours ago, aufarmer said:

Thinking about getting a new PI detector.  I have had a Minelab GP3000 and Whites TDI.  I really liked the GP3000 for the depth, but I quickly found out the area I hunt had too much EMI and the gold tends to be more porous and sometimes "sugary like", and the GP 3000 just couldn't see the gold.  So I have pretty much just been using a Gold Bug II.  Would really like a GPZ 7000 but don't think it will be possible.  So I was looking at the Garrett ATX or Minelab SDC 2300.  

Reading reviews on the ATX it seems quite a few people complain about coil falsing when hitting objects with the coil.  Does anyone know if this has ever been fixed by Garrett?  Or have the new coils fixed it?

Would the ATX detect this porous gold? 

It's been a long time since I bought a new detector and I haven't really kept up with any of it.

Thanks.

Most of the type gold we find is the porous (crystalline) and wire specimens. We sampled several types of gold that range in size and weight with a ATX and the ATX would not detect the specimens. Your best bet would be if you have a sample or samples of the type of gold you are looking for and test them with the detector you are interested in before making a large investment. Usually at GPAA shows or large competition hunts you will find the latest detectors that dealers have to offer. 

I agree with Steve, that is magnetite. Here is a some magnetite found near Badger Flats that we found last year that wasn't water worn. We used a magnet to find the specimens.

I and my wife met Bill at Gold Basin this last October and was helpful with tips on detecting and places or areas to hunt. Bill is one of the nicest and most friendliest people you could ever meet. I believe he stays at the local RV park in Meadview, AZ. for a few months every year.

Very informative and one could employ your methods when determining a potential site for relic hunting, beach hunting or even nugget hunting, etc. Also great input on how you use current technology in researching a potential site. Thanks for sharing!

2 hours ago, Keith Southern said:

Excellent piece Sir!!

Good research!!

 

Keith

Thanks Keith! I follow you on another forum, you got an impressive resume of finds and detector knowledge.

Outstanding! You prove that your patience and persistence has paid off and there is still many great finds that can be found. I hope the streak continues for you in 2017.

Very nice find!

My wife and I were hunting a early 1900's coal camp in southern Colorado this last year and I found this item. At first I didn't know what it was so I did a little research and found out it was a nameplate for a billiards table. Can you image how that billiards table got there and the stories it would tell. This was a first for me. What are some of your unusual finds?

Thanks jasong - the 102 carat topaz is worth a little over $300 retail and about $140 wholesale. That pricing comes from Krystle Dorris who is the daughter of Joe Dorris who owns the Topaz Mountain Gem Mine near Lake George, CO. The Dorris's were featured on the Prospectors Show on the Weather Channel.

We belong to the Lake George Gem and Mineral Club and they have a annual gem and mineral show every year where individuals and dealers can setup a booth to sell or trade for a reasonable fee. Several individuals and dealers at that show had specimens they had acquired from different areas of Wyoming. Colorado has several gem and mineral shows during the year where you might sell your finds.

Multi-Function Knobs- that will not go out of adjustment if accidentally bump

Beep and dig with Iron I.D. - (Iron Grunt)

Prefer sound over display I.D. - only use display as a second opinion on what target might be.

Multi-tones would be useless for a prospecting VLF in my opinion to many variables.

I and my wife did more prospecting for gem and mineral than for gold in 2016. Here's some of our finds fro Colorado.

The largest specimen picture below is a 102 carat topaz.

This is the area we were mining for the topaz.

Here's some smoky quartz we found on one outing.

Here are some magentite crystals we found on another outing.

We hope to get out and do more gem and mineral prospecting in 2017.

Steve, maybe a Modifications and Equipment Forum. I know you posted several modifications on detectors before that I found very interesting.

I think the TDI SL is good detector as is the GMT, but they have certain limitations when hunting areas that have been pounded to death. Current PI detectors that have more depth capabilities while being able to detect grain size nuggets is going to give a individual a better chance at success than what the TDI SL will give you. When coin, jewelry or relic hunting I think you have a winner, make it waterproof you will sell a lot them.

2 hours ago, jasong said:

These are some great photos everyone.

Glenn, that wire stuff looks like it came from Colorado? I've only met a small handful of people who've successfully found nuggets there with a detector, nice work if so! Do you know Reg Sniff there?

Yes the wire and leaf gold specimens are from Colorado. This year was are 26th year hunting the area where this type of gold comes from. My largest leaf specimen is 84.40 grams, my wife's is 31.5 grams. Next year we are working with the Colorado School of Mines Museum to display some of the gold we have found. It will probably in the summer to coincide with 50th anniversary of the Denver Gem and Mineral Show which the theme will be Gold and Silver. If you happen to be in Denver around that time check it out.

Yes we have know Reg for a long time and he is a wealth of knowledge when it comes to PI detectors.

10 minutes ago, kiwijw said:

Beautiful......Looks & probably is..... very fragile & delicate. You would have to hate handling it. I mean that in a nice way. Thanks for showing us. :)

Good luck out there 

JW :)

Thanks! JW. I had some loss of the gold wires in the first stage of cleaning, then when it gets to the final stage, the final mass is quite stable and can be handle without any problems. Some of my other specimens though have to be handle very carefully. It's fun and exciting when cleaning and photographing every specimen, almost like opening a Christmas present, you never know what your gonna get!

1 hour ago, tboykin said:

WOW. Great pics!

Thanks! Tom, I'm learning a new technique called focus stacking when taking and processing photos. Upside is a decent photo, downside it is a very tedious process. Here is crystalline gold specimen, front and back side.

Here is a wire specimen I just cleaned recently, a before and couple after pictures. The last two pictures are taken from the same angle. This wire specimen was found with a White's GMT.

I would like to find a wire silver specimen, here's one from Creede, Colorado.

7 hours ago, GB_Amateur said:

Very impressive finds (139 Wheats, etc.)!  All I saw in your post was 'TDI' -- which model?

Also, if you don't mind, are you able to reject the old ring-tab (sometimes with beaver tail still attached) or do you end up digging them?  Those can be deep since last made in 1975.  I find way more of those than steel (beer) bottle caps, the new 'square' tabs, and aluminum screw caps combined.  (That's with my VLF's, but I do have a TDI/SPP which I got for hunting native gold in areas with large hot rock populations but I'm not averse to using it in parks, especially after reading about your successes.)

 

My TDI is one of the first 200 production made ( called through the hole ) detectors. Timing has been modify to go below the 10s. I reject or don't hear most pulltabs, bottlecaps or screw caps because of the deep targets that I'm searching for. If the target is good or bad and is at a depth of six inches or more I will dig it. The pulltabs being in the nickel range are rejected regardless if they are on the surface or deep because of GEB setting will discriminate them out. In fact you can cherry pick good targets in pulltab infested areas. The TDI you will hear many targets on or near the surface that should be rejected and the way around that is to raise the coil height above the target. If the target goes away it is a rejected target based on the GEB setting, If it is a good target the sound will not go away. The TDI loves nails or wire regardless of depth, though they are sometimes difficult to locate because the coil will not pinpoint them accurately. If you take a good target ( coin, etc.) and place it on the surface and swing the coil over the target you will notice the sound will be much louder and broader than if you raise the coil six inches or more over the same target, that is the sound you want hear. I know i miss a lot of good targets that are on the surface down to five inch range and also anything in the nickel range, but that is the trade off for finding older coins.

I have been using the TDI this year at a old local park and had great success in finding old Indian Heads, Wheat's and silver dimes. I'm using the 7.5 Dual Field coil and cherry picking the deep targets by the type of audio sound that is heard vs the audio sound on a surface targets. With the 7.5 Dual Field coil I am detecting targets that a MXT, V3i and XP Deus, which are using larger coils and unable to detect the same target.The only drawback is a high conductor trash target or iron wire/ nail will sound good at deep depths. This park was consider hunted out, year to date: four Indian Head, one hundred thirty-nine Wheats, four Barber dimes and sixteen Mercury. Still learning the capabilities of what the TDI has to offer. The key to this detector is patience, patience, and more patience but the the rewards are worth it.