Tom_in_CA

19 minutes ago, Erik Oostra said:

What would you do if they didn't still have it? You'd have to prove ownership of that exact ring.. And the cops probably wouldn't love you too much for trying to test their honesty.. My guess would be that this would come back to bite you on the arse, maybe in the form of unwarranted speeding tickets.. 😬 

That's an interesting question.  I suppose the test would have to done with a ring that has unique markings.   

And .... I wonder what would happen if they said "someone claimed it", and then I "sprung the trap" and told them it was just a made up story to test their honesty.   Very interesting question.

9 minutes ago, kac said:

Not for nothing but my hunch if I turned a ring into the local PD, I would almost guarantee after 30 days they would tell me they found the owner and it would instead find a new home on their wife's or GF's finger.

Kac :  I speculated that notion on a thread, for-this-topic before.  And someone challenged that, saying : That I was presuming that the police are corrupt.   They took offense to the notion, that a desk clerk at a police station could stoop so low.   Ie.: that I was taking a very negative view of my fellow man.  

I assured him that I have a VERY HIGH view of LEO's.  And that, yes, they're just normal dudes like us, and aren't necessarily corrupt.   But that this scenario is a little bit different :   Because .... think of it :  That ring was NEVER YOURS IN THE FIRST PLACE !   You only "found" it.   It's not yours.  So how have you been harmed ??   You turned it in to the police knowing FULL WELL it might be claimed.   And the police are under no obligation to tell you who claimed the ring.  D/t privacy law issues.

And odds are, that the vast majority of things being turned over to the police L&F , have no one coming back in 30 days to claim them.  The evidence for this is that there are periodic police auctions, where this type stuff just gets auctioned off.  So I'll bet that the cops are probably just assuming that you or I are probably not coming back in, in 30 days, to get it.

So if the desk clerk calls his cousin Joey at the 29th day, and says :  "Hey Joey, do you want a nice gold Rolex ?  Just come down to the station and describe a Rolex with these features..."   then, to a twisted way of thinking:  In their minds, no one's been harmed.  YES IT'S STILL WRONG, but ... not in the same fashion as taking your Rolex off of your nightstand, for example.   Someone can rationalize that ... no one (certainly not you, since it was never yours in the first place), has been harmed.

I've often thought about testing the theory, by taking my own wedding ring down to the police, and then coming back 30 days later to see if they still have it.  

1 hour ago, kac said:

Often high end jewelry is insured if that makes you sleep better at night.

If it has initials or a name on it I'll try to find the owner.

Haha, well .... sure .... your conscience might be smoothed knowing that the person hasn't suffered a loss (if indeed it was insured).  HOWEVER :  When an insurance Co. pays out to a policy holder, then , if the ring surfaces somewhere, then *technically* the ring now belongs to the insurance Co.   Thus .... can you *really* sleep better at night ?  😘

27 minutes ago, Erik Oostra said:

I've already posed this question on Jim from Idaho's post in relation to gold bars, but I'm curious about the general consensus among detectorists..

Is there a time period after which the 'finders keepers' rule applies?

I'm asking because I face this dilemma every time I find valuable jewellery (especially wedding rings) on the beach, whether to turn them in at the police station in case someone has reported them lost or to hang on to them and keeping quiet.. Value could not just be monetary but also sentimental..

Thanks for your feedback to a question I'm sure plagues the conscience of other detectorists as well.. 

Edit: just realised I've posted this on the wrong forum, it should be on the 'Metal detecting for jewellery' forum.. Not sure how to change it..  

Erik, I have studied this topic in-depth.   It's an intriguing dilemma for an md'r who wants to "obey all laws". 

Basically it boils down to this :  All 50 states have lost & found laws.  They were born out of wandering cattle laws of the 1800s.   The wording varies from state to state, but there is always a dollar valuation cutoff .  So in CA, for instance, if you find something worth $100 or more, you are required to turn it into the police station.  If no one claims it within 30 days, then you can come claim it.  And if the police will run a "found" ad in a local newspaper.  If you intend to claim the item, then you must pay the cost of publication for that classified ad.  Other states might charge you a 'storage & handling' fee if you intend to come back for it in 30 days.

The law makes no provision for how long YOU think an object was lost for.   Ie.: even if you strongly suspect the ring has been lost for 100 yrs, makes no difference to the law.  Because, otherwise .... gee .... everyone would twist it and say "Shucks, looks like this has been here a long time".   And would simply flaunt the law.

Also the law makes no provision for YOU to try your own repatriation attempt @ looking for the owner.  Eg.:  Pinning a note to a telephone poll, or using the CL lost & found section.  It simply says to turn it in to the police. 

The law also doesn't say how the $100 valuation is arrived at.  Ie.:  Is this the intrinsic melt value ?  If so, do you go by pawn shop offers ?  Or a refiner who's paying 95% of spot ?  Or do you go by the value when new in the jewelry store case ?  For example:  Is an I-phone worth $500, since that's what someone pays to get one ?  Or is only worth .30c of intrinsic melt value (a bit of silicone, copper, plastic, etc...) ?   So I asked a lawyer this question, of how to value an item, to see if it triggers the state's L&F laws.  He thought for a moment and said: "Turn it in to the police, and let THEM decide how they want to value it".  Doh !

Needless to say, no md'rs are keeping this law.  A quick look at any md'ing forum's show & tell section, shows no shortage of md'rs posting their bragging rights beach rings, eh ?   Ok, how many of them do  you think "ran to the police station to turn them in " ?   And it must not be a big deal to law enforcement either.  Because otherwise they could simply monitor our forums, and go around busting people, eh ?   But obviously, they're not.  

Thus basically :  Do you want the technical legal answer ?  Or do you want the realistic answer ?   Do you want to be fully law-abiding ?  Or are you going to "wink wink no-one-cares" on this particular one ?  🤪

What do you think is the advantage over the Deus ?  Ie.: Goes deeper ?  Un-masks around/through iron better ?  Or ... ?

Chris, you are just knocking them out of the ball-park lately.

And those buckles have become the "cat's meow" of desired/collectible finds , in collector circles lately.   They, & the gun, are just dripping with history and are so cool to find.  Congratz !

8 minutes ago, F350Platinum said:

William 1 silver penny from 1066-87:

https://anglosaxoncoins.homestead.com/William1and11.html

Worth a few bucks if it's real.

If that's the accurate ID, then .... must be a souvenir pocket piece modern loss.   I doubt it's a period piece.

Hey, a guy in Monterey, CA , during an old-town demolition scrape project, found a Roman coin that he got dated to something like 100 AD.   He assumed it was probably brought back to the USA, as a souvenir, by a returning soldier.   Believe it or not, coin-collecting (and the habit of picking up souvenirs) is not a new trait.   People have gathered nostalgic nicknacks, since time immortal.  As as odd as it sounds, it's possible that they then get lost at some fumblefingers location somewhere else.

19 hours ago, kac said:

Wasn't it last year or year before someone in Poland ended up in jail and they took his ace away for detecting? Their rules are undefined on what you can detect so guessing these guys somehow got permission.

I've read lots of show & tell posts, coming from Poland.  So it's can't be illegal there.  As in ... some sort of "border to border" law.  So whatever you're alluding to must be someone who was in a distinct singular off-limits place.   Not that "all md'ing in Poland is a no-no"

There's been attempts made (you can find them on the net) to create compendiums for all the countries of Europe.  Where you can simply look up any country there in Alphabetic order.  Genius idea, eh ?   But oddly, even those countries with "dire sounding verbiage", have hobbyists.  Even dealers in the major cities, etc....  Being the devil's advocate, I asked one of the guys, from one of those countries with "dire sounding language", :  "How do  you do it ?"  And I linked him to the web-link.

He said that what those links/lists don't take into account, is that whatever laws they're citing are for public land.  And have no bearing on private land.  So farmer Bob can do WHATEVER THE HECK HE WANTS on his own land.   Or .... quite frankly, ... the guy told me that they're typically so-far back in the forests, that .... well .... there's no one around to care, in the first place.  🙄

An example would be like this :  If you were to call some USA bureaucrats and archies here, and ask "Is it ok to metal detect in the USA ? ", you might get told "no".   Because perhaps they're couching their answer in terms of ARPA (which, BTW, only applies to fed land. Not "all public land").   So you might, in fact, find someone here who thinks all md'ing in the USA is a no-no.   See ?  It just depends on who you ask, what they envision, and how you phrase the question. 

Thus I put little stock into these compendiums.  Sometimes you have to read between the lines.   And the rare flukes of someone getting roughed up, can be isolated flukes of someone who wasn't practicing an ounce of common sense.

Oh, golly, are you saying that's stealing the thunder from underneath the merc. dime I just found ?   🧐

GB-amateur , as the others have said:  Excellent post !

It is a common observation that gold-nugget hunting is more profitable.  From a daily "melt value" perspective (given a skilled hunter, in each venue, that knows what he's doing).  And let's be honest :  Even if you factor in key-date old coins, that the odds are:  It's rare that any old seated coin (even the key date S and CC mints !) will merit you $1k.    And a cool collectible buckle or button might net you $1k.  And so forth.

Contrast to the guys who have strictly drifted to gold nugget md'ing:  It can have much higher dollar values for their accumulative value.  Than ANY coin/relic guy could have had in the same period.  This is why many Sacramento area hunters, back when the nugget-specialty niche of the hobby first took off,  tended to "leave coins/relics behind", and focused STRICTLY on nuggets forever more thereafter.   It became an addiction unto itself. 

I know we can debate:  "What about the coins that were found, that were worth $10k ?"  Well , gee, so too :  "What about the nuggets that were found that were worth $10k ?"  But at the end of the day, we all can't deny that if money were the only driving factor, and skill-levels-were-accounted for, then:  Nuggets seem to be more profitable. 

HOWEVER, as Raphis-Dan and others point out, there is NO substitution for the thrill of the history (strategy, skill, story, etc...) that the old coin or relic presents.   A nugget is strictly a monetary object.  But a coin or relic holds a story.  Not sure if that's making any sense.

This is all-so-timely for me. Since:  My wife and I are looking at taking our central coast insane real estate market nest egg, (since I'm not on the ugly side of 60), and thinking of G.R. area real estate living.  And as such, I'm pondering learning the nugget hunting aspect/side of our  hobby.   Great post GB-amateur !

Great post & great pix as usual.  And I love how you are sure to post the junk pix as well.  Just so it's not like the bass-fishing channel, where "every cast is a lunker" 😆    To show the good, the bad, and the ugly.   You worked for your rewards 🙂

Nice.

54 minutes ago, schoolofhardNox said:

.... I'd trade a couple of Fugio's or a Nova for one of those older gold coins.

Us west coast guys are green with envy about your east coast colonials and LC's.  That's for sure.   Our consolation is we have a fighting chance at a gold coin, and ... yes .... a high percentage of S mints.

Was just doing a country picnic site a few weeks ago, and got a 1901 quarter.   My buddies and thought "we're about to have a heart-attack", since the 1901 s quarter is a BIG BUCKS quarter.  And seeing as how we were only an hour from SF, I was already counting my chickens before they were hatched.   Alas, it was only an "O" mint.  AAaarrggghhhh  

When we're in a spot giving up 1910, '11, '12, '13, '14, & '15 wheaties, they are almost invariably all S mints.

22 hours ago, schoolofhardNox said:

.... What we drool over from the western part of the country is the "S" mintage coins, the gold coins, ...

School-of-nox :  The answer to this is simple :  We refuse to let our key date S mint coins cross over the Mississippi.  Tsk tsk.  Occasionally one slips over .  If that happens, kindly mail it back to me  😘

And yes, gold coins are most often always found in the western states.   If you want to start another post on that, there's been several reasons why this phenomenon exists, that we can discuss.   But I know lot of guys here with a gold coin to their name.  Some of which rarely find seateds, never find reales, etc.... Ie.: they're "tame" hunters.  And I know several other guys with two, three, or four gold coins so far here.  And a couple with 10 or more gold coins (although that's rare).  

Contrast to the EAST coast, where there are HARDCORE HUNTERS (with scores of LCs, colonials, reales, seateds, busts, etc...) yet have NEVER found a gold coin.  Or have found only 1, etc....   

46 minutes ago, Chase Goldman said:

Thanks.  You're probably right, Chuck.  I've seen a lot more 1700's reales dug than early 1800's US, but have only managed a Mexican First Republic 1/2 Reale from 1830.   Still looking to dig my first 18th century coin of any denomination.  Very happy with my dime - I knew that if I had a chance to dig it anywhere, it was at this site.  A few have popped out here previously.

Yes.  We dig more pre-Mexican independence reales (ie.: pre 1822) than Mexican reales (post 1822), here in CA.

I've always figured that was because Spain had heavily bankrolled the push north into Alta CA.  But by the time of the Mexican independence, there was already the beginnings of little towns here, other nationalities settling, missions and presidios were in decline, etc...   Quite frankly, Mexico simply didn't take very good care of Alta CA.   Alta CA was seen as self-sufficient by that time.   Like when CA gained her independence from Mexico, hardly a shot was fired, for example.

Fun story .  Thanx !   And yes:  I've heard of md'rs who, because they/we "have the mindset", have been able to find stuff, just by eyeballing, that others just don't "connect the dots" or see on.   Great read !

3 minutes ago, Raphis said:

Fantastic finds, Chase!!  👍🏼  Beautiful silver you found...The bust coin is still on my bucket list, but I really haven’t hunted sites in my neck of the woods that give me a chance at finding one. Congrats on the relics also!

What ??  You mean the southern CA turfed parks and beaches aren't brimming with bust coins ?   On the east coast, they're in every sand box.  But here in CA: Ya gotta start doing the Indiana Jones relicky sites of CA to get them .  🤣 

nice.

I know I keep joking about "moving to the Sierra foothills" in answer to the md'ing show & tell.  And thus moving in on such md'ing pursuits.  Yet, I'm at the age (60 now, on central CA real estate holdings) , where my wife & I are actually eyeing locations along the historic Hwy 49 corridor.   Because: Correct me if I'm wrong, but that corridor is becoming an increasingly popular area for empty nesters and retirees ? 

But as I say:  Pay no attention to the mysterious man in the trench-coat seen milling around with the GPS tracking device @ your front driveway.  haha

4 hours ago, CVISChris said:

,,,,  One thing I  keep finding are wads of thin lead sheets.  I would guess that was what they bought to melt for pistol/rifle balls?  I need some time with the DEUS to get it down and I bought it with the 11 inch coil when the 9 inch was probably what I needed.   

Welcome to the harsh-cruel-reality of the Deus.  Although it's touted as the "cat's meow" in iron ridden sites, yet .... it is indeed *weak* on flat tin iron type objects.  Items that other standard discriminators effortlessly pass. 

The Deus faithful will say that there's audio clues that can tell the difference.  But I'm still dubious of one detail :  Will any such audio clues *only work* when there is a "clear line of sight" to the target ?  Ie.: non masked ?  If so, then ... gee, so too can standard machines likewise get a "clean signal" on an un-obstructed signal ?  

But, like you ..... I'm still learning it.

20 hours ago, Raphis said:

Hey, don’t give these guys on this forum  such a hard time with your argumentative replies 😂🤣. (I read your replies to GB’s thread regarding using a PI to hunt for deep oldies at an older park).  We know you’ve never been spanked before in a trashy, aluminum/iron laden old park by anyone swinging a PI machine before.....but then again, neither have I. ...

Haha, good to hear from you Dan.  Glad you're out and about !

Your deep- turf cherry picking skills are the stuff of legend.  I still say you're a robot, and not human !    Since you have so much experience with that balls-to-the-walls nugget machine, getting insanely deep beach coins, I say you should take that to some of those junky Los Angeles /So. CA turfed parks.   I mean, go figure :  You can't argue with 1.5 ft. on a dime, now can you ?  Hence, what could *possibly* go wrong ?   If it works at the beach, then ... by golly ... what are you waiting for ?  Doh !  😘

Hey, I dunno if you remember the young fellow that you were kind enough to show the ropes to, years ago:  "Michael" from Laguna Beach.   You got him hooked.  He's been getting seateds and reales lately.   He never got much into turf, and drifted instead to relicky pursuits.  He's a fun character to hunt with !  So thanks for showing him some ropes.

1 hour ago, Raphis said:

....  I hunted my beaches for a few years with a TDI Pro and a 17x13 Nugget Finder coil, and slaughtered the deep silver, along with a decent number of gold rings....It was so tough digging those deep holes that tend to fill back in the deeper you dig. ....

I remember that beach !   Those were great reports to follow.   If I recall, it was a dry-sand zone, where no one else had ever harvested beyond a foot or whatever.  So you went in with the balls-to-the-walls nugget machine, and were getting coins below the "mere mortal " levels 😅     Do  you ever return to that beach to try that anymore ?

Great pictures school-of-hard-nox.    And judging from the amount of ferrous targets to coins, the ratio wasn't too punishing, eh ?

Yes.  Calabash is an excellent asset to the md'ing community.  Willing to help others with their machines, the settings, etc....   Thanx calabash !

8 minutes ago, schoolofhardNox said:

... a certain situational hunt. ...

Correct.   And that was :  For park turf.   As you will see on his opening post question to the thread.  Thus yes : We are right-on-subject.  Of pro-con discussion for that situational type of hunt objective.  Right  ?   😔