palzynski

As the issue with the Apex / Viper coil is now solved ( faulty Viper coil / new Viper coil sent by the Garrett support ) , I have restarted my tests from the beginning and opened new threads . See below for more infos about my last tests - thanks ...

On 5/12/2021 at 1:50 AM, glabelle said:

....

I'll be there 😁 I'll be bringing the Apex, the EQ800, Fisher F5 and the Impact. I can tell you that I've done much testing in ghost town conditions, and the name of the game is SMALL coil and separation speed due to the "masks" of nails and rusted tin. I've found the Classic III with Mr. Bill's mods to be an excellent performer in those conditions, only because it has a 3.5" concentric coil (Blue Max 350). 

Hi ,  

From what I have seen up to now , I am quite sure that you will have good results with the Apex concerning the "separation speed on mask of nails" , especially with the Ripper coil . Looking forward for your comparative tests ... 

On 5/10/2021 at 5:43 PM, abenson said:

I'll have to agree. I didn't see any difference in recovery speed when changing modes. Maybe the update changed that. But for the most part changing modes only changed the discrimination pattern which often times hampered the performance of the Apex in trash.

From my standpoint , the Apex factory recovery speed is correctly set and works very well in the field and I never needed to change it up to now , even in the extreme iron trash of this last outing .  I think that Garrett has designed  and tested the Apex to be very efficient in the iron trash, this to take advantage over the multifreq competition ( ML at the moment )  ...   From what I have seen up to now they have succeeded.  

On the other hand the ML multifreqs like the Equinox and Vanquish go a little deeper than the Apex in clean soil ( low/medium iron trash ) and they have more accurate/stable VDIs . And lighter coils .

So both brands have their advantages and disadvantages , and it is probably not easy to choose between them for a newbye ... 

Just my opinion ..

31 minutes ago, EL NINO77 said:

Alain ... Congratulations on finding nice old coins ,, you did a really good job with Apex ... and I'm glad that Apex brings you good luck ...👍
Finally, I still stop the opinion that the right coil .. really can optimize the work of the detector on the given terrain ... or in terms of separation, or depth of detection ..

As for the Iron audio in the garrett - so I'm glad it's a definite setting of the detector in all metal with a strongly amplified iron bias - which can distinguish well Ferromagnetic targets ...

Thanks Slavomir , yes the Ripper coil is the right coil for hunting small areas littered with iron trash and I like it .  I have tested a little the Viper since I received the new one from the Garett support ,  this coil also works very well  ; excellent iron filtering and reactivity on targets.  The Viper will be the right coil for open areas like open fields , beaches etc I think ...

15 hours ago, Steve Herschbach said:

....

The Iron Audio is not identical to the all metal option offered on other models. I wish it was. It has some very odd quirks that I’ve been meaning to write up. Best bet is to use the all metal mode if you want all metals, as activating iron audio in some other modes does not just switch to all metal. It’s more complicated than that, but no time to go over it now.

...

Actually I found that the Apex manual is not very clear about this "Iron Audio" function . I just discovered in the field that pressing the Iron Audio allows to hear the low ferrous tones and that works well for me at the moment ... I will try to understand the Iron Audio details when I have some time  available... 

I have never tried the all metal ZERO mode yet, yes may be an interesting mode I will try it.

On the other hand yes I have had teething pains 🙂 last year with my Apex because of this faulty Viper coil . The reason why my first reports were so negative ...  I hope that Garrett has solved this quality issue now ...  

Anyway I have a totally different machine compared to the one I had last year and I enjoy it  now  ... 🙂

1 hour ago, Dug2gld said:

I’ve used the deus for the last 8 years. The tarsacci for the last 2 months. I didn’t think another machine could match the target separation that the deus has, but the tarsacci is awesome in the iron! I am hitting old sites and cleaning up finds we missed.  The tarsacci loves the deep brass. 

I have used the XP goldmaxx  from 2007 to 2013 , then the Deus from 2013 to now . A total of 14 years with XP ....  I agree that the Deus has the best target separation in iron trash  from all the machines I have used since 1998. 

In Europe separation is the key feature because we very often detect on nail beds here , this is why I am curious about this tarsacci...  🙂

9 hours ago, kac said:

Wet ground is conductive. Good read is this from Dave Johnson, part way in he describes wet ground.

http://www.fisherlab.com/hobby/davejohnson/HaloEffect.pdf

Yes wet ground is more conductive than dry ground. But I have never had any issue with either my 540 or my 340 in mild ground , either dry or wet. Looks like the above "false signals" pb is a combination of very high mineralization + wet ground . However I am not a specialist of hot grounds we have only mild grounds over here in the north of France ...  Slavomir ( El Nino77 ) do you have hot grounds in Slovakia ? thx

29 minutes ago, CVISChris said:

I bought a 540 for my wife and I have been using the EQ 800.  I rarely dig a square nail but she is digging tons of them with the 540.   It seems to have a bit of trouble with the ground as well.  She became so frustrated with it that I gave her the 800 and I bought a DEUS to try.  I am wondering if the 540 tracks the ground at all or is it just a fixed GB?  

All the Vanquish have fixed GB. In mild soil the Vanquish has an excellent iron disc , impossible to dig nails with it in mild soil. So the pb perhaps comes from your soil mineralization . 

Ok for mineralized soil but what about the Tarsacci in mild soil with iron trash ? Does it perform better than the Deus there ? thx ..

Hi Dancer ,

Actually I should have said that if my Deus HF is running at 14khz in this area and despite my experience, I would  find nothing .  You start to find things there at frequencies above 20khz , either you are experienced or not, and whatever the detector.  The only exception is the Teknetics T2 14khz that is performing well with its FA mode, this detector has something special ...🙂

The funny thing is once you know the correct settings , the Deus is very easy to use , even by a beginner and even on these nail beds . The Deus is far easier to use there than an equinox/vanquish for example , With a Deus you dont hear the irons because it filters them , and it just beeps on the good targets.  The pb with the Deus is the number of settings, for example 11 detection modes . The beginners are messed up with all the settings and for example they often use the wrong detection mode . Btw it took me 2 years to understand that the Deus Fast mode was the best mode for my kind of hunting.

For beginners , the Orx is simpler and a better choice than the Deus to my opinion

btw I dont remember why we are discussing about the Deus settings in the Garrett forum 🙂 ...

17 hours ago, okara gold said:

I just weighed it...3.1 grams. Doesn't sound too authentic if all those shown are only 1.3 to 1.4g.

If the original coin weight is 1.3 to 1.4g ,and yours 3.1g , then yours is very probably a fake coin. The hammered medieval coins are very thin it is an easy way to recognize them ...  

Yes I agree . I have a little story about this . Once I was in a "sea of iron nails"  with my deus hf set at 30khz and there was an other guy , that I never met before , who arrived at the same time with an Ace , I dont remember which model  . Two hours later we compared our finds , I had 15 small coins in my hand and he had found ... nothing.    I was really disappointed for him actually btw ...  Conclusion in this area you absolutely need a specialized high freq machine if you want to find something .  You would find very few with a machine running under 15khz there ..

This was a very interesting ( and not planned )  field test , which simply means that you need the right tool for the right job .

Concerning the software update yes I consider it as a very interesting feature , even if sometimes I get excited when microsoft blocks my PC with a windows update and I have something urgent to do lol ... 🙂 

12 hours ago, 67GTA said:

From playing with the AT Max and listening to Apex videos, I can tell you that it is a similar situation (to my ears) to the Deus and low conductors while using full tones. Sometimes they can bleed together and be missed.

I am a little surprised by this , the Deus/Orx are for me the best machines in heavy iron trash. They can pick up very small coins ( then low conductors ) among nail beds when using high freqs like 30khz and this is the reason why they are references over here in Europe. What I mean by nail beds are for example antic house roofs that have collapsed resulting in soils containing thousands of rusty nails and their fragments...  From the other detectors that I have used since 1998 , only the Tesoro Lobo and the Teknetics T2 ( FA mode ) were able to compete with the Deus and Orx . Probably the Tek G2 would do the job , but I have never used/tested one up to now... 

Concering the Apex , from what I have seen during my first tests it is good in iron trash but not as much as the XPs , but I need to confirm this in the field with more hours detecting. The only thing that I can tell at this time is that the Apex is  better than the ML multifreqs ( vanquish , equinox etc.. )  on these areas, which is a very positive feature 🙂 ..

19 hours ago, 67GTA said:

• More distinctive tones to better differentiate good targets from iron

I am very interested to see how this changes the tones. Got to play with the AT Max last year in heavy iron and some of the lower tones were hard to distinguish from the iron tones. They tended to blend together. The Apex tones sound just like the AT Max to me. Doesn't seem to be enough tonal space between lower tones and iron.

Hi 67GTA ,

I dont know the AT MAX but I currently own a Deus HF and a Vanquish 540 , so I will be able to compare them with the Apex.  At this moment I need a few more hours detecting with the Apex to have a more accurate idea of its ability in iron trashed areas . I will update this thread as soon as I have more field test results ...

On 4/25/2021 at 1:08 PM, EL NINO77 said:

https://garrett.com/apex-update-instructions

Thanks Slavomir for this info , I will do the update as soon as possible . Looks like they have improved the Apex audio , and powering on the backlight when activating the menu is a great idea.  🙂. 

I had not much time to test the Apex these last days but I plan to do a lot of field testing with it during the coming weeks ... 

1 hour ago, Ridge Runner said:

Palzynski

 If what you say is true then I hope the HF coils from my ORX work on it.

 Chuck 

New coils have been designed for the Apex , I imagine that it will be the same with the new XP ... 

Alain

Hi relicmeister ,

From what I know XP will release their first multifreq machine in the coming months . it will probably a  "fast mf" detector to be very efficient in iron trashed areas like the Apex , and as usual a very  light machine. Future will tell ..

3 hours ago, Jeff McClendon said:

The original black Low Frequency coils and the new black X35 coils used with the Deus have an ID normalization On/Off choice. However, on the Deus there is no ID normalization choice for the High Frequency white coils, so it is automatically Off. So, basically, the HF coils are not fully compatible with the XP Deus............weird???

On the ORX, ID normalization is always On for both the white HF coils and the X35 coils. The ORX is not compatible at all with the original black LF coils.

In France/Europe we have hundreds of coin types/sizes/weights dating from the antic /medieval to modern ages , ranging from 0.5 to 30g so that we only use the VIDs as an indication , except in very specific situations . Perhaps that this is probably why XP has not really focused on this VID normalization  but rather on reactivity / iron filtering / ability on nail beds etc ... To summarize this VID feature is interesting but it is not the most important thing for us . Just my opinion as usual ...

Of course it would be better that those IDs are normalized as it is very useful in other countries like the US which are a big market for XP I imagine 🙂 ...

About the weigths :

11 x X35   --> 470g with coil cover

13X11       --> 590g with cc

See :http://www.xpmetaldetectors.com/metal-detector/category/accessories-deus/

So quite a big weight difference between the coils ...

Concerning field results , I only know the 11 coil old version ( not the X35 ) , it is deep on big coins at depth in clean soils if you use a low freq like 5khz

Just one important thing when setting such bed tests ; ensure that there are NO iron bits remaining in the ground that will be used for testing.  Otherwise the results will be falsed. The ground must absolutely be iron free ..

 A detector in the all metal mode can be used for extracting the iron bits before filling the box/bucket ..

I have the Minelab Profind 35 , it has a major difference vs the others : the iron disc , a big plus in iron trash areas or to locate big ferrous at depth.  I have also heard people complaining about its reliability however mine is working perfectly since 2 years now ...

I went today with my "new" Apex for a short outing to a third test location to double check that the "false signals " issue has been solved by the new Viper coil sent by the Garrett support . It is an iron infested path in a wood where I have tested the Vanquish 540 a year ago. 

- First the Apex/Viper is very stable , no more false signals .🙂

- Second I have been very impressed by the Apex , it is almost silent on the iron trash, with sharp beeps on good signals . I confirm that the Apex iron filtering is excellent and better than the MLs Vanquish and Equinox in iron trashed areas. 🙂

It is the third outing with the Viper new coil without any pb , then I consider that this "false signal" issue is now solved. 

I will continue to test the Apex but will post my reports in a new thread ...