palzynski

On 11/16/2019 at 10:24 PM, RobNC said:

it finally happened- Someone granted me permission to hunt a piece of property that dates back 1840's as build date.

My 2 detectors are the XP ORX and Teknetics T2SE with a small Cors Shrew coil.  I imagine this place will be littered with iron objects as it was used as a farm site after 1870-ish. All the original buildings are intact, except a chicken coop or two. The place is mostly untouched and this coming spring there will be restoration performed on the main house and other buildings. Real slim window here and wouldn't you know in the coldest months here. 

So what I'm asking from the experienced people here, and especially those with Tekentics T2 experience or XP ORX experience what things would you suggest when tackling an older place like this?

....

Hi ,

I agree with Chase, the Orx is perfect on iron trashed areas. Concerning the settings I use COIN FAST mode ,  14khz on low to medium iron trashed areas , 30khz on high iron trashed areas.    I rarely use 50khz because of the important depth loss. For info I have a white 9i HF coil

I know a little the T2, it is a very good machine , I used the FA mode when I had mine , very efficient on iron trashed areas .. but monotone .. 

Happy hunting ...

BTW I have just seen that this is an old thread dating from 2019 .. So I am a little late on this ... 🙂

On 9/28/2020 at 7:45 PM, phrunt said:

It's becoming more clear with the more people that buy it that aren't Garrett Fanboys that the machine is Porsche look-a-like with an old clapped out VW motor in it.

And the Vanquish is just the opposite , a VW pink beetle look-a-like with a Porsche motor in it .... 😀 ...

Honestly I prefer the pink beetle with the Porsche motor .. 🙂

42 minutes ago, Jeff McClendon said:

....

Anyway, having owned and used a Simplex, all three Vanquish models and both Equinox models, I agree with Chase.......the Simplex is by far the best deal out there for someone who just wants a fairly easy to use, all terrain, wireless, built in battery, with decent audio, good mode choices, excellent target ID accuracy for a single frequency detector, surprisingly fast recovery speed, is updatable by the user and is ridiculously affordable. It is a great choice for a grab and go or backup detector. 

....

 

Yes but the Simplex has an important drawbac:k  ; it is an heavy machine with its 11 stock coil . At around 1,4kg it is largely above the average , its 11coil / 480 grams is front heavy compared to the 360grams of the Vanquish 340and 440. I would not recommend the Simplex for young people and women for example ..

2 hours ago, Chase Goldman said:

The Apex is NOT faster than the Equinox with the Equinox set at high recovery speed settings.

I was comparing the detectors ruuning at their factory settings. So yes the Equinox could be a fast as the Apex with recovery settings set to high . I do not have the Equinox any more so I cannot check this in the field at the moment ... Concerning the Vanquish for sure the Apex is faster , but the Apex is not accurate enough to my opinion , this with unstable VDIs   ...  ( for me )

One positive thing however, it is very easy to pinpoint the targets with the Apex and the 11 X 6 coil is excellent for this. It is very easy to find the targets with the Apex compared to other detectors using bigger coils.

11 hours ago, abenson said:

I was hoping for some multi frequency competition from Garrett. But as it stands right now they aren't even close to what Minelab has. I honestly can't tell much of a difference in performance between multi and single frequency on the Apex. Yes its stable in MS on the beach but the Vanquish is still a better machine for less money. IMO Garrett should have waited until they had something better, instead of rushing a multi frequency to market just to say they had one. The thing that disappoints me is that it doesn't even give the Vanquish a run for the money. The Apex is a bit better at separation in iron if you have it setup right than the Vanquish but not by much. On the other hand the Vanquish is deeper and more stable. Maybe they will surprise us all with an AT Apex that will really shine. In the mean time I'm waiting for the Equinox 1000. 

Yes I agree with you Abenson the Apex is faster than the Vanquish and the Equinox but approximative in the audio signals  with jumpy IDs  when the targets are a little deep. I largely prefer the little slower MLs which give very accurate/reliable audio and VDIs informations this even at depth . I have compared the Apex with a Vanquish 540 up to now , but I am sure that the 340 / 240euros will be much better than the Apex / 520euros from the audio/VDI accuracy standpoint. Knowing that the audio is the most important thing for a detector ..

Hi , I received the Apex last week and did 4 outings with it , total around 5 hours detecting upto now ... I will write a specific thread on this but for the moment I am quite disappointed with this machine . I do not like the audio , the sounds on targets are not stable unless the targets are shallow. The VDIS are very jumpy unless the targets are shallow . Also many false signals between the targets . I compared the Apex with a Vanquish 540 in the same area and the Vanquish outperforms the Garrett . Much more precise and stable on targets etc ...

On the other hand the Apex mechanical design is good I like the thin control box , the headphones are very well made. But again the Equinox , Vanquish , Deus/Orx , T2  ,Tesoro's audios are much better than the Apex. Just my opinion as usual... I will give more details later in the new thread ...

Like Abenson I dont like writing negative things on a machine . However for the moment I am not really happy with the Apex ... 😒

7 hours ago, Chase Goldman said:

.....  However, being stuck in 3 tones for the coin modes is just a little TOO bare bones.  I don't need all the tone breaks and tone pitch customizations of Deus but give me at least pitch and full tones to go along with the ORX 3-tones and associated fixed tone breaks and I would be a happy camper. ....

Yes I agree only 3 tones on the Orx is not normal knowing the price of this machine 700 euros over here. A Vanquish 540 at 440euros has 5 tones it should be at least 5 tones and ideally fulltones for the Orx   . Perhaps it would be a good thing to inform the XP support about this , I have informed my seller in Paris about this issue but no answer from XP for the moment . Perhaps if the request comes from the US they will be more reactive ... 🙂

Hi , excellent video , the first one really showing the apex in action , just like if I was using the machine myself thanks ... 

A few comments:, the Apex audio looks like the .... XPs Goldmaxx , Deus audio ... With very reactive sounds on targets , for example  the Apex is for me much more reactive than the the MLs Equinox / Vanquish,  I like that ... It looks like it also filters better the small irons than the MLs then it will be easier to use because more silent on iron trashed areas.  

so this field test is very positive for me . I have ordered one so I will do my own tests in European conditions I hope that they will confirm yours ...🙂

Hi ,

I have tested the Chaser 14khz for a shop in France called "Le Fouilleur" 3years ago.  A very deep detector especially with the 12 X 10 coil on medium/big coins in low iron trashed areas , which is quite surprising considering its relatively high freq of 14khz. A little deeper than the Equinox I would say . This was the positive thing with this machine.

On the other hand a few negative issues :

- the multitone audio does not work correctly because the target tone change with the target distance from the coil . This is the main issue with this detector , the multitone is not reliable at all and for example the Vanquish/Equinox multitones are far better and accurate ... Same pb with the VDIs which are not reliable.

- the iron disc on big ferrous at depth is approximative they often sound like good targets

- the Chaser is heavy , around 1,7kg with the 12 X 10 coil

However I did this test 3 years ago in 2017 , perhaps Detech has fixed some issues and especially the multitone issue since 2017 ... Not sure about this ... I would suggest you to check this with your dealer if you plan to buy one ..

Hi , very nice rings ... Which detector were you using btw ?

12 hours ago, EL NINO77 said:

It will be interesting to see how Apex works in the field compared to other detectors......

I have ordered an Apex so I will soon post my results in the field ( coin hunting , mild soil , typical European high iron trashed areas) . .. "Easy separation in iron infested areas"  --->  I will check this and compare the Apex with my Vanquish 540 and Deus HF 9i  in my testing areas ...

For coin shooting in mild soils , low to moderate iron trash , the Equinox 800 and the Vanquish 540 do almost the same job ( for me ) . So  no real need to keep them both .  I preferred to keep the Vanquish 540 because of the excellent V8 V10 V12  coils  and its simpler ergonomy.

1 minute ago, bigtim1973 said:

So you have the same deus since 2013? If so that is awesome. 

I too have a deus. I do not have as much time under my belt as with my ORX since I purchased the orx first...but am getting more familiar with it. 

But glad yo see there are no battery failures with your experience with XP units!!

No I do not have the same deus since 2013 , sorry I did not explain very well... I have started in 2013 with a 9inch black coil plus  ws5 headphones , then I changed in 2018 for a 9i HF coil plus ws4 headphones .   No battery failures during this time . Just an issue with the ws5 headphones fixed by the XP support.   An excellent result for 7 years of quite intensive use , in often difficult conditions , rain , mud , dust , etc ... 🙂

3 hours ago, bigtim1973 said:

I have the ORX too. Man what a fun mahine that puppy is.  I had an equinox 600 as well for a little while. I liked the screen on it too. 

 

However I sold it and everything else when I got the ORX and saw how it performed. 

...

You will see that when you are used to detecting with a Deus or an Orx it is difficult to come back to a wired machine. When I connect the coil cable on my Vanquish control box I always feel coming back to the prehistoric ages ...   🙂I

Concerning the reliability of the XPs internal batteries that you mentioned in an other post above , they are very reliable. In fact those lithium internal batteries are much more reliable than external AA batteries. I have had very few issues with my Deus since I am using it ( 2013 ), either with the coil or the ws4 . The Deus/Orx are the most reliable detector I have ever had since I have been detecting ( I started in 1998 ). However If you use intensively your Orx you might have to change a battery in 3 or 4 years , just like with a smartphone, which is normal. 

Btw I am happy to see that you appreciate the Orx , I have tested it 2 years ago and was very impressed with it , just like the Deus it is a killer in iron trashed areas like ploughed fields , especially with the 9i white HF coil...    Very light and simple to use also ..  I could not find anything wrong with this machine , except the multitone limited to only 3 tones.    HH ...

1 hour ago, Chase Goldman said:

This thread also discusses and shows video of field performance and it is telling a pretty consistent story.

 

 

Thanks Chase , actually I just read the comments and did not look the video for the moment  , I will do it asap ..

On 8/31/2020 at 10:08 PM, abenson said:

I thought this would be the best topic to but this comparison under. But, Steve if you feel like it belongs under the Garrett topic, please move it.

I want to start by saying that I really hate posting reviews like this when I'm disappointed in the results. Makes me feel like the bad guy or that maybe, just maybe I had the metal detectors setup wrong. Anyway here is a quick review.

Garrett Ace Apex Review Part 1

....

Thank you for you static Apex separation tests . Very interesting .  Have you planned to do field tests to confirm the separation test results ?  I mean a place where you have already tried other machines so that you can compare them together.

I say this because from my experience sometimes the results in the field may differ from what can be seen on static tests .. 

Btw if it is confirmed that the if Apex separation is only equivalent to the Vanquish then this is not good news , because the Apex was supposed to be very good in iron trash from the Garrett Marketing specs , and the Vanquish is not a reference in nail beds , at least the ones that we have in Europe .... 

Very nice finds , yes the Vanquish serie are excellent in low to medium iron trashed areas . a little less on nail beds where they are are too chatty due to a lack of small irons filtering .  But considering their prices they are all great values for money , either the 340, 440 or 540.  Fun and very easy to use , and also very efficient machines , especially with the very good V10 coil ... btw I only use them inland , but  I am not surprised by your excellent results with the 440 at the beach ...

48 minutes ago, Chase Goldman said:

We do have it, I don't recommend it either at this time for the OP's situation.  I think having a controller (Orx or Deus) is essential for full featured hunting, including pinpoint feature and ability to do updates.  Orx a better value than Deus lite IMO.

Ok for the Deus Lite avail. in the US

Actually my seller wanted to sell me the controller when I bought the Deus in 2013 but I found the single controller   a little bit too expensive at more than 500euros  ...  🙂      

 As I almost do not change the "Deus fast" mode factory settings ( except for fulltones once and frequency in the field depending on the iron trash ) I do not really need the controller . The software internet updates are done by my seller.  But probably I am the only one , most of the Deus users have the controller over here ... 🙂

Yes I agree the Orx is certainly a better value than the Deus Lite , the Orx controller is more friendly to use than the WS4 little screen and buttons ..

6 hours ago, Chase Goldman said:

 

....  My first choice, would be Deus...if price were no object.  I think Deus is currently at an unsupportable price point given the competition.   If you can get a used Deus package closer to an Orx price point, that would be a great deal.  Or an Orx supplemented with a pair of WS4 phones used and on the cheap (i.e., $125 or less) as George recommended that might be a great package (though I doubt you are going t o be able to pick up some WS4's for the $90 he snagged them at - going used price is probably north of $200).  Right now Orx is just shy a few key features that prevents me from wholesale recommending it.  I can use it as a backup to my Deus in a pinch, but being limited to 3 tones without pitch or full tones options is too much of a features compromise for me vs. the Deus.  Supplementing the Orx with WS4 phones is ok, but if you spend too much on the WS4 phones, you might as well just look for an affordable used full on Deus package.

 

I am surprised that you dont have the "Deus Lite" version for sale in the US . This version includes a coil + shaft + ws4 wireless headphones for around 680euros over here, so the same price as the Equinox 600 . Look for example at https://www.metaux-detection.fr/xp-deus-22-ws4-disque-haute-frequence-dd-de-22-5-cm,fr,4,DEUS22HFWS4.cfm . It is the version that I am currently using actually . It does not include the control box but you have the most important settings on the ws4 headphones , I have been using this machine for years and I am very happy with it . 

Concerning the Orx,  I do not see important differences between the Deus and the ORx when using in it ploughed fields . Thieir behaviour is very similar for me, and from comparative tests I did with a friend , I found as much as with his Deus in ploughed fields. The Orx is fast and  deep in the "coin fast"mode  , which is logical because it uses use the same coils as the Deus and most of the processing is done inside the coil itself . Just my opinion as usual ... One thing I did not like ; the Orx is limited to 3 tones I would have preferred that full tones was available ,  I hope that XP will update this in the future ...  For info over here the Orx price is 700e , so similar to the Deus Lite or Equinox 600. https://www.metaux-detection.fr/orx-22-hf-sans-casque,fr,4,XP-ORX22HF.cfm

Hi , great coaching ! Where are you from in Europe ?

I would add to the above post what has made for me the success of the Deus/Orx , their ultra low weight compared to the competition. An Orx with the 9 HF coil only weights 730 grams , an Equinox 1260 grams . There is a huge 500grams difference between them , and the XPs outperfom the Equinox on this weight/balance criteria and the difference is even more important with the Noktas . You can detect longer with a Deus/Orx than with other detectors , this without any tiredness.

Considering the electronics , the Deus/Orx behave like Tesoros , with very fast recovery and excellent iron filtering so they are excellent in nail beds as said above . Because of this they are a standard in Europe. 

So if you plan to use the Deus/Orx for inland detecting  ( and not for beach hunting ) they are a very good choice.

6 hours ago, Chase Goldman said:

Yes, I think the issue here is just terminology.  As I stated in the post you quoted, higher frequencies tend to resolve smaller targets better which translates into better target separation - a well known/documented effect of using higher frequencies.  Increasing recovery speed (reactivity) also improves target separation.  Both have a slight impact on target detection at depth (for different reasons - but the point is that there are always tradeoffs between depth and target separation).  Coil design and dimensions also play a role in both target separation and depth as well. 

 

ok I understand better now  , my sentence "As I said in an other thread when you change the frequency on a Deus/Orx it changes the recovery speed of the detector" is  confusing ... Of course there is not change of the reactivity parameter when increasing the freq , I just meant that the Deus was faster and much better in iron trash when increasing the freq  ... Sorry for the misunderstanding ..

11 hours ago, Chase Goldman said:

Steve, still learning here, so I defer to you who have forgotten more than I'll ever know about detecting.  So I will gladly take any corrections to any misconceptions I have stated below.

...Palzynski is stating that the greater small target separation behavior he sees with higher operating frequency is the result of greater recovery speed, when in reality, I believe he is simply perceiving the natural tendency to for higher operating frequencies to resolve smaller targets better resulting in greater separation in trash.  The recovery speed of the Deus is not actually changing, and it is important to make this distinction because of the fact that you can actually change the recovery speed of the Deus via the reactivity setting (the parameter that Tom was having trouble adjusting on his headphone controller).  It could be misinterpreted by users that adjusting the frequency of the Deus will result in an automatic adjustment of the reactivity parameter (that is how I originally interpreted Palyzynski's post) which is absolutely not the case. The reactivity setting on Deus will remain fixed if you adjust frequency even though small target separation may be enhanced.  Operating frequency and recovery speed (reactivity) are independently adjustable parameters.  It is an important distinction on Deus because switching programs can result in wholesale changes in multiple user parameters including frequency and reactivity (as well as tones, sensitivity, disc, and other important parameters).  

...Anyway, I think Palzynski is taking advantage of a beneficial characteristic of higher frequency operation, higher resolution (and therefor, target separation) on smaller targets but that does not mean the recovery speed of the machine is actually increased when operating at higher frequencies [although I remain open to the fact that this may be indeed the case, just have never seen it documented and I know for a fact that the reactivity setting does not change with frequency].  As with just about anything detector related, there are pros and cons to any approach like this.  We spoke of the pros.  Palzynski's approach will not result in the greatest possible impact on target separation but if it works well enough that is all that matters and Pal is getting good results.  The separation effect is much more pronounced through direct manipulation of the Deus "reactivity" parameter, though.  Furthermore, it may be disadvantageous in some cases to increase frequency due to the adverse impacts on the ability to detect high conductive targets at depth, so if more separation is desired without having to change frequency, then tweaking the reactivity parameter directly would be more desirable.  Just different ways to skin a cat.  Use whatever works and requires the least effort, shifting frequency is a good quick and dirty method to boost separation, especially on a detector without an independent recovery speed adjustment.

On Deus, I set up adjacent programs to one another that vary certain key parameters such as both frequency AND reactivity and toggle back and forth between those programs when interrogating iffy targets to see how the target responds to the changes in those key parameters, which is often very illuminating.

Anyway, never at a loss for words, that is my take on the issue. 

Yes this frequency change method is not documented , I just learnt it in the field and perhaps from other Deus local users, I do not remember actually because I have been using this trick for several years now ....  For example I have an area which is a big old roman site which is littered with old iron nails , may be one every 10cms. If you run the Deus HF on the Deus fast mode at 14khz there you will find almost nothing there . If you change to 30khz you will start to hit small or very small coins the results are far better  ..

In addition to this "natural" faster recovery /speed, as you said using higher freqs increases the detector sensitivity to small targets , and this is exactly what is remaining in this area , small or very small coins among thousands of nails.. They are all shallow targets so loosing depth is not a pb here , and the 30k freq still goes deep on small and medium coins vs the 14k freq.

Probably I did not use the right words , I do not know where it comes from actually , reactivity or detector analysis speed + sensitivity increasement on small targets ? , but the fact is that I find much more in iron trash at 30 than at 14khz.  

I have given this freq change "recipe" to a friend that also has a Deus HF , he is very happy with this and has excellent results. One day I will post some of his finds , which are really impressive ..

This Deus freq change method is very simple , no need to program the Deus , just use the factory Deus fast or GMP mode and change the frequency ... As I do not like to spend time programming things this is just perfect for me ... 🙂 

BTW thanks for this info concerning the WS4 reactivity setting , I did not know that this setting was existing on the WS4  version 5...

1 hour ago, Tometusns said:

Is it not possible to adjust the reactivity with the ws4's. In the manual it says hold the minus button for 2 sec and the disc will flash, then you can adjust reactivity. If I hold the minus down it just goes into hyper mode lowering the disc. Is there something I'm doing wrong or...don't know or understand. Thanks!

As I said in an other thread when you change the frequency on a Deus/Orx it changes the recovery speed of the detector. The higher the frequency and the faster the detector behaves  . I use my Deus WS4 + 9HF white coil at 14khz on low iron trash areas and I switch to 30khz as soon as I arrive on a high iron trash area. At 30khz the Deus is much faster than at 14khz , and at 30 it can pick up small targets among trash that would be missed by the 14khz frequency.  

So to summarize I never use the reactivity setting on my Deus , I just switch the frequency depending on the terrain  thats all . For info I always use the "Deus fast" factory nr 3 mode. It works very well ...

5 hours ago, jmaryt said:

yes i am aware  of these things.my soil is mild, no hot ground.i am not concerned about the rest as full boat multi-iq 
running gain just shy of (e.m.i.) should win the day, and the price point difference is significant, especially on a retired fixed income.
i bought it to run (s.m.f.) so single frequency is of little interest.either it finds the goodies in (s.m.f.) or i go home empty handed.i believe it's a good gamble in the "cooked" parks,and other "burnt" public places around here, and if it it separates well, and gets good depth, then i'll be happy.

(h.h.!)
j.t.

 

You cant go wrong with the Vanquish 540 , it is an excellent machine. Its ergonomy is excellent ,, very simple to use, very reliable . Depth perfos are the same than the Equinox 800 in mild soils from my measurements . The most often I use it with a V10 coil which I find more polyvalent than the V12 . The small V8 is excellent for finding tiny targets among iron trash it is also a very light coil. The V12 is very good  for finding medium/big coins at depth in low iron trashed areas.   

As for the moment the Apex has still not yet been intensively tested in the field , the Vanquish is a very good choice , and last but not least  , its color is red and not pink ... ☺️

HH ..