palzynski

6 hours ago, Jeff McClendon said:

...

. I can usually tell if an object is aluminum or not just by the quality and length of the tones produced. Is it as diagnostic as the XP audio, NO...

...

How do you exactly recognize aluminium signals ? Even with the Deus I have never been able to distinguish aluminium from other metal targets and I have been using Xps since 2007 starting with the Goldmaxx ...  I am very interested by this because I know an area where celtic artefacts are mixed with modern aluminium trash . It would help a lot if I could recognize aluminium either with my Vanquish or Deus ... thanks

55 minutes ago, Goldpick said:

I have both the Equinox 600 and XP Deus with the 9" high frequency coil, still preferring the Deus due to more providing more detailed audio info.  I'd say if you prefer going off target ID's, especially at depth you might prefer the Equinox.  The Deus ticks the box if you like to  detect mainly via the audio - more of a specialist machine for sieving through older sites with plenty of iron.  Personally I'm not a fan of straight shafts (Equinox), and the lack of weight makes the two XP detectors more suitable for long sessions in the field.

Would be good if you could experience the audio on both detectors as it can be a deciding factor for many, and whether you can live with them from day to day - can be a very personal thing despite both detectors having a plethora of settings and features available.

XP also offer a longer warranty than Minelab, a price you pay for the Equinox being waterproof.

I agree with you , the Deus / Orx has more audio info than the ML multifreqs . With a Deus/Orx you can for example recognize targets made of thin metal like coins or cartridges because of a slight reverberation in the audio signal that does not exist with compact targets like bullets . However it takes time to learn this , I would say at least several months ...

I cannot do this ( differentiate targets made of thin metal from others ) with the Equinox/Vanquish. They always give the same "straight" audio answer whatever the target .  More signal processing probably ... 

Yes the best thing would be to try the 2 detectors ( Equinox and Deus/Orx ) to have a better idea of their behaviour on the field because they are very different detectors .

Fat should be included , this is the industry standard ... 😀

If 420grams includes the cable the new NEL fly 12X11 coil is a light coil for its size. Some examples below:

-  Deus 11inches coil         410 grams ( without coil cover )
-  Equinox 11 coil                440grams ( with cable without coil cover  )
-  Vanquish V12 12X10      440grams ( with cable without coil cover )
-  Simplex+ 11 coil              480grams  ( with cable without coil cover )

1 hour ago, GB_Amateur said:

Would you (or anyone else) explain the logic behind this?  Does it only apply to the Deus/ORX or is it a general principle?  Also, do you discriminate out the iron tones, turn down their volume, or just let them be?  I don't know Deus/ORX 'speak' so if all that is in the settings you quote it's lost on me.

I forgot to quote your question ... the answer above

With the 9inches HF coil there are 3 freqs avail. 14khz , 30 khz , 50khz.   

In fact it is quite simple , I discovered with the experience ( after 2 or 3 years detecting with the Deus ) that  first the Deus reactivity increases when the frequency increases, second its sensitivity to small targets ( small coins for exmple ) increases  . 

For example a Deus running at 30k is much more reactive and faster than if running at 14k.   There is a little depth loss but the reactivity/speed is the key in iron trashed areas.  The more reactive the detector is and the more efficient it will be for finding targets among irons.   

So I use 30khz as soon as I arrive on a high trash area. High trash areas can be recognized because of the "chatty' audio  ... If the area is clean with low iron trash I prefer to stay on the 14k freq because it goes deeper than the 30k freq on medium/big coins.

I very rarely use the 50khz because the depth loss is mportant , but this freq works well to find very small targets in extreme iron trashed areas .

This principle ( manual frequency change ) also applies to the Orx .  For info I used the coin fast mode on the Orx/9inches HF coil. I have no more the Orx because I already have a Deus but both detectors are very similar in terms of perfos ..

4000 6000 years old indian copper very nice find btw ...

1 hour ago, RickUK said:

I had the Deus for maybe 8-9 years and when the Hot programme came out everyone wanted to use it including me,it last about 2 hours using it and never really used it again for everyday use,it just fries my brain with in my mind useless overload audio.For many years all i use on my roman and medieval sites is the stock GMP settings which runs the discrimination at 6.1.The only thing i occasionally change is the freq but the Deus wont miss much if at all and if it does not beep then probably nothing is in the ground.

All these super sexy programmes that folks come up with and give them fancy names are in my mind just ego booster,the GMP is a reliable workhorse and it works very well for my detecting needs,must admit the HF elliptical just makes it possibly my all time favourite detector and its the one i grab as i go out the front door.The Nox and T2 which i still highly rate are backups rather than the main detector.

 I have the Deus for 7 years I always use the stock Deus fast nr 3 program set on fulltones . I use a 9inches round HF coil . The only thing I do in the field is changing the frequency depending on the iron trash level : 14khz on low/medium iron trashed areas , 30khz on high iron trashed areas. Thats all. Up to now I do not want to use other programs/settings because this one works perfectly ( for me .. ) ...

1 hour ago, GB_Amateur said:

I have the Ultimate 13" for my Fisher F75 and it weighs 532 g, including cable and cover.  So I guess the (small?) difference is amount of wire in the windings.

...I also am a stickler for weight & balance, but apparently not quite as much as you.  I've never swung a Deus/ORX so I can't relate to that experience, as you can.  If those are your benchmark I'm thinking most detectors are going to feel heavy.  😉

Actually I still have that coil . So I just re measured its weight , see pic below . It weights 592g including cable and cover , 60 grams more that the Fishers version  ... I do not know where the difference comes from , perhaps the windings or cable length , or Detech has changed the plastic or the resin of the Ultimate coils ...

Yes I am a stickler for detector weight ... The pb is that when you are used to swinging a Deus/Orx, it is very difficult to come back to heavier machines , even a 1,2kg detector like my Vanquish feels a little heavy ...🙂     

I never had a F75 but I had a T2 which are very similar detectors I think , the T2 weights around 1,6kg with the stock coil, more than twice a Deus/Orx ....  It is a pity for me because it is an excellent machine with a great audio ..

Garrett is going in the right direction with the Apex . If it has good electronics I am sure it will be a success because it is lighter ( 1,1kg )  than most of its competitors like the Equinox ...  Future will tell ..

I had a few years ago a 13inches detech ultimate coil mounted on a Detech Chaser 14khz , probably the deepest VLF machine on big coins that I have ever tested. On my bed tests I measured 33/34cm depth on a 10grams copper coin for the Chaser/ultimate 13, deeper than an Equinox 800 11coil which hits it at 30cm .  So I imagine that the Advantage should perform very well with this 13 ultimate coil on big coins.

However this 13 coil was a little too heavy for me , 540grams without the coil cover , total 1,7kg on the chaser .   So I eventually sold the Chaser .  Now I have the Vanquish V12 which is close to the Chaser ultimate 13 in terms of depth performances on big coins/targets , and far better in terms of weight , id accuracy , iron disc , etc ...

thanks for the nice pics of Australia ...

I would add to the above list the XPs Deus and Orx which are excellent machines , and if the detector weight is important for you they are much lighter that the Equinox. They are also excellent in iron trashed areas . For a beginner I would suggest the Orx , which is simpler to use than the Deus.   

I have the Minelab Profind 35 , I find it excellent and it is the only one with an iron disc , very useful to identify big ferrous at the bottom of a hole . 

There are many buried big ferrous in my area ( North of France  ) because of the 1st world war . Such big ferrous buried at depth ( 10 inches or more ) often give a good signal and the Profind 35 saves time and energy because you can identify the ferrous before seeing it  , without having to dig too deeply .  

However the Profind 35 is a VLF so cannot be used for beach detecting ..

I'm good at losing stuff too  ...  🙂    Actually it is very easy to loose a pinpointer if it is not secured , especially at night ..

My profind 35 pinpointer lanyard version below , the lanyard is attached to the holster. Btw I do not remember where the holster comes from , if it is a Minelab or an other brand (  Deteknics ? ) ...

Personally I am happy if my Vanquish misses 5% of the good targets , and hits the rest (  95%  ) .. After 30/40 hours testing the 340 and the 540 I can say that the Vanquish either the 340 or 540 is very sensible to targets of all sizes/metal types . With the V8 coil I can even hit shotgun pellets , not sure that entry level detectors of other brands can do the same ... Perhaps there is a little concern with specific ( nickel ? )  targets in specific positions , but from my standpoint the Vanquish does an excellent job  , either using the All Metal mode ( that I prefer )  or the other COIN JEWELLERY modes...

1 hour ago, Chase Goldman said:

Don't see how this could be without any direct adjustment in recovery speed whatsoever unlike Deus, Orx, Equinox, and mode-based indirect recovery speed adjustment on Vanquish and even Simplex.  I have asked Apex early test version users directly and they have confirmed this to be the case.  No recovery speed adjustment direct or indirect on Apex.  The coil can only help so much in this regard. Separation is primarily a function of recovery speed.  Even with the recovery speed adjustments on the Nox, it IS hobbled by the limited coil selection in this regard.

As the Apex design is 2 years  newer than the Equinox , perhaps it uses a faster processor than the Equinox , which means faster recovery time in the field.  Just a guess ... 

9 hours ago, Steve Herschbach said:

He said almost as well, not as well. Most everyone agrees to Deus has the edge over the Equinox in dense trash. But the consensus also is that the Equinox comes very close, so I do agree Garrett has some work to do there. With identical coil sizes my bet is on the Equinox for recovery over Apex, but stock coil to stock coil, Apex may have a very good chance of surprising people.

Sorry you are right I missed the "almost" in JMC's post  ...  BTW the elliptical Apex 11 X 6in  coil is equivalent to a 8,5in round in terms of coil surface , so clearly it should be better in terms of iron masking and also lighter than the Eq 11in stock coil.  The answer in a few weeks ...

10 hours ago, Jeff McClendon said:

At least those unadjustable tones are fairly musical. Palzynski, if the Apex has better recovery speed/target separation ability in thick iron than the Equinox or even the Vanquish I will be pleasantly surprised, but mostly shocked. There are ways to set up the Equinox so that it will do almost as well and the Deus/ORX in thick iron trash. I like having both. 

Jeff

Actually I never found on my Eq 800 the settings to do as well as my Deus HF in thick iron trash. Even setting the Equinox  reactivity and iron bias to the max ,the Deus HF "deus fast' factory mode  outperforms the Eq, this without modifying any setting on the Deus.  But I have very special areas ,very old antique houses that have collapsed with plenty of roof rusted nails , perhaps one every 5 or 7 cms ( 3 inches ) , at the surface and the same at depth ... A nails carpet ... Will be interesting to see how the Apex performs there .... Extreme conditions , but I know that if a detector works correctly there , then it can be used everywhere else ... 🙂

9 minutes ago, GB_Amateur said:

....  But I get it -- you're not expecting anything from the Apex that other detectors in your arsenal don't already have.  Neither am I but I can hope to be surprised.   ...

I am quite sure that the Apex will be better than the Equinox in dense iron trash areas . This could be appreciated in Europe where the most important thing for a detector is its ability to manage dense iron trash areas. Also it is a light detector , this is a plus ... Of course for those detecting only in moderate iron trashed areas ( NZ etc 🙂 ) it is different ...

1 hour ago, phrunt said:

....  Most of the videos seem like they're made for 5 year olds to watch.

These videos are probably an idea coming from the Garrett marketing dept , but the detector itself may be a ( very ) good machine. I have more confidence in the engineering guys than in the marketing ones , this is true for Garrett but also for car manufacturers etc .... 🙂 

So yes the best thing to do is to forget all these videos stuff and wait for real field tests ... 

12 hours ago, Steve Herschbach said:

I took a quick peek at these videos. Garrett must give the “influencers” instructions to not really talk about the detector or to even show it in action much. They all boil down to “I’m using the Apex, and look what I’m finding.” Most of the time you can’t hear the detector or see its responses. For it to be that consistent across all videos leads me to think there are guidelines being complied with. How otherwise can so many people shoot so much video and convey so little actual information?

 

Yes I entirely agree ,  the Apex is never showed in action in these videos . I wanted to hear the Apex audio , at least a few seconds , no way . Never seen such stupid marketing videos .... I largely prefer the FT Fisher approach with the Impulse AQ and the design engineers directly discussing with the users , like on this forum ... 

I have a friend that uses a Vanquish 340 with the All Metal mode to find 1st WW iron relics here in France . 

From my standpoint ( coin hunting ) I recently discovered that the Vanquish AM mode is perhaps better than the coin or jewellery modes because it gives a better understanding of the soil contents , ferrous or non ferrous , this without any filtering . Just my opinion

The Vanquish is a very accurate detector and Irons can be very easily recognized with their low tones . It is also a deep machine because of the MultiIQ , so perhaps the Vanquish could be a good machine for what you are looking for ( irons ) , this with an outstanding value for money ( only 240e over here , the price of a coil  .. )

9 hours ago, RobNC said:

Well I have a Minelab Pro Find 35 and have mentioned it is unstable and erratic. It is STILL UNDER WARRANTY. 

I did contact Minelab about the issues. They responded back and asked for more information. I responded back with the requested information. And for a few days heard NOTHING.  This got me thinking and not in a good way. Is it possible that where I purchased it from did some dicey things? The serial number was provided to Minelab of course as well as dealer name and date of purchase.

Does anyone know what kind of checking they do on such things? Better yet, how long would it take to get a definitive answer from them? Yeah yeah its just a pin pointer but not a cheap one when it was purchased last year.

Hi

I have a Pro Find 35 never had any issue with it , very reliable up to now  . I find it excellent and the iron disc is a top and unique feature. On the other hand my seller is quite upset with the Profind 35 because he has had a lot of customer issues with it  he says .  I do not what issues exactly I will ask him ...  

8 hours ago, Sven1 said:

Just weighed the three coils, the 8.5 weighs the same as the 11" coil. The 9.5 x 5 coil weighs about 2 ounces less.

Ok I have weighted the 11in coil when I did the Simplex+ test  a year ago , then this gives the following figures:

-  the Simplex 11in coil :  480grams  
-  the 8.5                         :   480grams
-  the 9.5X 5                   :   420 grams

Comparing with the Vanquish :
-  the V12 12X10          :   440grams
-  the V10 10X8            :   360grams 
- the V8 8X6                  :   310grams

( All weights without coil cover )

btw the Simplex 8.5in coil should have been lighter than the 11 coil as it is smaller  .. Weird ...

11 hours ago, Sven1 said:

...

Saw others were asking about the coils weight. Some may find them a bit heavy, they are not super lightweight like those found on other detectors. As I recall they have to be heavier, the main reason is that the Simplex is both a land and water hunting detector. The coil has to be heavier so it will not try to raise to the surface. Like a beach ball when pushed under water, which takes a lot of human pressure to keep it down. If hunting in salt water, if the coils are not neutrally buoyant they will float unlike hunting in freshwater. So the Simplex being a dual purpose detector is probably not much different than other similar detectors. If the Simplex was strictly a land detector, super light weight coils could be made. And the Simplex would feel much lighter in weight more like the Quest detectors.

...

 

Yes but probably most people use their Simplex for land hunting only and they would prefer lighter coils I think ... Apart from that do you know the weight difference between the Simplex 8,5 in and the 11in coils ?  Thanks ..   

The same for the Deus WS4 headphones , they are excellent , light and comfortable with an excellent audio.The bigger WS5 headphones are a little less interesting because you do not hear the surroundings with them and they are a little heavier .