jasong

For the last 12 years, my main detecting pack has been a CamelBak MULE Milspec pack, they are perfect for me. I don't touch the harnesses as these hydration packs are so much better. Small and light. Has D rings in the right spot on the shoulder (not sure all newer models do today though, verify), 100oz water bladder, carries everything I need for a day. I toss a frozen plastic water bottle inside the bladder to keep the water cool, then at the end of the day if I run out of water I know I still have my backup icy bottle left to drink out of. Bungee stays connected always, a backup is kept in the lower pouch. I can hook a gold pan on, keep a Leatherman, pistol in the rare cases I want it in griz or drug country, extra batteries, food for a day, and my pinpointer clips onto the D ring on the other shoulder with a Key-bak. The rest I keep in my ATV saddlebags. But if I'm taking any amount of larger tools or lots of samples/rocks I do need a larger pack. Might go to Cabelas or REI or someplace and test fit some packs in person, some packs have D rings but are placed too low, you want it up on your shoulder and then if you need it extended you can always clip a carabiner on. I just looked and they appear to have changed the design from what I bought, apparantly removing D rings from some of them, so looking in person is probably good.

Algoforce still isn't showing up on the FCC website. Unless it's under some different name? That makes me wonder though - Minelab's FCC testing and permits generally only pertain to the Bluetooth and/or wifi frequency emissions, and not the metal detector itself. I'm guessing because the bt/wifi stuff is regulated frequency bands while a PI detector operates in unregulated bands? If that's the case, I'm wondering what exactly Algoforce is waiting on the FCC to test for in the US since it doesn't have Bluetooth included, thus nothing to test for? I must not be seeing the whole picture.

Unfortunately Minelab made serious detecting for gold all about money. It was a skeezy move. Here is some fact that gets lost too easily among a largely retiree age crowd on this and the older AZ forums: Until my 2nd GPZ, every single detector I bought, I purchased on credit at 18% interest or a commercial line of credit at 8.5%. I had to make it pay or I couldn't do it. I couldn't afford to buy a detector otherwise. It's no mystery why there were and still are so few younger people doing this. When I had a Youtube channel I got 3-6 inquiries a day about what detector I was using and how much they cost - my audience was principally 18-35 year olds at the time. As soon as I told them - they lost the dream quickly. Hopefully that's changed with the Algoforce. Unfortunately, it does come a little late in the game. But exploration prospecting is still a viable method to find gold - the days of pointy fingers and reworking old patches is pretty much over though.

Just epoxy one right onto the lower shaft if it needs to stay there anyways. Nothing to lose, always there, never moving. Or, if more powerful detectors+coils going forward require much less cable movement, maybe clips need molded into lower shafts in the future by manufacturers. These would be easy to 3d print BTW, if you had the shaft and cable dimensions. I wonder how much cable diameters vary though across brands?

I like the power pack method. I have to carry one with me anyways because with my GPS and camera, my phone is down to 10% battery towards the end of the day anyways and needs charged. Usually I need my GPS to get back out of new places, especially in dark. Can just use my detector battery now if I really need to, always there in a pinch. I'll probably end up going with a large pack just to cover all bases. Keep a spare in my pack, a spare in the RV, and I still haven't spent what 1 ML battery costs, and it'll charge my phone too, and not need bizarre adapters and cords to work. If other detectors follow the same path than you can use battery packs for them too. Can use it to recharge a bit of my jumper pack for my ATV and sidexside too in a pinch, for 1 jump. USBC batteries have been on my list of wanted features on new detectors for years, I like it. Hope other manufacturers follow.

Haha man, 100,000 is a new record I think...that's hilarious. 😅 I love how it's tiny, like half the size of a phone too, they aren't even trying to convince anyone anymore haha. Technically we have laws against it. My guess is that the problem is as soon as the FTC pursues one of them for false advertising they simply change their name like from "Unvqint" to "Exoslarp" and then sell the same thing again with a slightly different case to make it seem different. Problem is I am sure Walmart, and probably Best Buy too, are buying this stuff and repackaging it into more American looking non descript packages to sell in store. They should know better. Certainly anyone buying from Amazon should just avoid those brands with clearly nonsensical names anyways. Which unfortunately is getting harder and harder every year since Amazon's algorithm gets paid to push them. I tried finding a Rugged Country winch last year I had bought 5 years ago to buy another one, and even putting the exact term in quotes it still gave me nothing but knockoff products 5 or 6 pages deep. I was only able to find the winch by searching my old orders and going to the product page from there.

This may be a suitable thread to mention something which may trip up some US users especially new guys - the cheap $10-$20 battery banks you can get at Walmart, Amazon, etc are often vastly overrated. Like they just write whatever rating number they think will sell best. Some are ok, some are absolute garbage. The ones at the checkout aisles that are rated 10000mAH from Walmart, I disassembled one because I was using it for a different application and it would run out very quickly. The actual batteries inside were only 2500mAH. Later I bought one that was 20000mAH and took it apart and surprise surprise - 5000mAH battery in it. Bought one off Amazon that was 20000mAH to recharge phones with remotely, and it lasted about exactly as long as the Walmart one but I didn't take it apart. I can see people going to Walmart for a battery and wondering why their detector is only running 90 minutes off a "20000mAH" pack. 🙂 In this case it probably pays to go with the more trusted, name brand ones for an extra $10 or so like the Belkin Simon posted.

@GoodAmount Nice, yeah seems like ABS is doing good. No plastic will avoid scratches on rocks since it's just a matter of hardness. On your slicer do you just do solid with no infill? What nozzle and layer thicknesses out of curiosity? Yeah the Amazing Goo I just put on the edges of all my old NF Advantage coils because I got so tired of burning through skid plates. Actually the bottom of the coils themselves stayed fairly intact, just really scratched up. I haven't used any of them for quite some time though since the GPZ first came out. The goo itself didn't really get damaged at all though, and I always thought there was something there in terms of making better coils. The really soft plastic compounds actually wear better than the harder ones since they are self healing - like a skateboard/rollerskate wheel, or rubber. I think there is something there if it can be done to look nice on a 3d printer, that's the problem though. I think it's awesome that we are almost to a quasi-Star Trek replicator type situation for some parts. Just download a file and print it out, and voila - endless replacement parts for pennies on the dollar.

Thanks for the report. XP may be onto something with the wireless coils if PI's get even more sensitive and the coil cable turns into a problem with more powerful detectors. Of course then I guess, that voids the convenience of using standard, older coils for free or cheap, so maybe not a great idea. I wonder what the feasibility would be of a tiny transmitter on the coil and a receiver on the detector, then cutting the cable to make a coil wireless. Course then we are back to X Coil thing where people don't want to cut a cable. Ah well, ignore my ramblings thinking out loud, sounds like it's just a minor problem anyways just when setting the detector down and not while swinging it as long as the cable is fairly secure? Unless you get into heavy bushes/vegetation anyways? I have that same problem you seem to have with blood, for me with cactus spines. I stuck myself a few times where it made me almost pass out and vomit, while I'm sitting there with Leatherman pliers trying to pull them out of me. No fun. Minute I see my own blood I get faint and want to puke.

Thanks, good to see some testing of that TID feature. Do your shotgun pellets on a stick show in the nugget TID range out of curiosity? Also curious how bits of rusty tin/iron show up on that conductivity scale (in nugget range?), all new to me, I don't even have a guess. Seeming like so far nuggets under 1 or 2 grams are generally under like 30 on the TID maybe? Too early to see patterns? It doesn't look like you ground balanced the detector yet, or are your gravels 50 50? Curious if the ground balance shifts the TID around too, and how much if so, if you get a chance to look at that later.

I saw another vid where they were using salt to maintain the shape, it left grain imprints though. I have a bag of hot mud (drywall compound) that is ultra fine powder, I might give that a try in an oven too to hold shape during annealing. I kinda want to try experimenting with printing TPU directly onto a coil, then get rid of coil skid plates entirely if possible but yeah like you experienced, bonding probably will be the problem. I use Amazing Goo on some of my old ones instead of skids, and it worked great, never wore through, and it's kinda similar to TPU, I'd love to be able to just replicate that in nice controlled, even layers to save on weight and make it look nice. Other problem though is my print bed is small so I'm limited to the small coils like a Sadie or maybe 8" X Coil. But like you, I've not figured out a good way to print it yet, mine just turns out all stringy and messy, not professional looking. I'm still very much learning here. Thanks, snagged your .stl. That's another thing I'm still learning, using Fusion 360.

Looks like I'm waiting for the E2500 already then dangit. 😄 Still a pretty interesting machine at $1500, kinda still want one just to keep 24/7 in my truck instead of the 6000. Much less money to lose if a theft occurs, and still looks capable as an exploration prospecting machine. Thanks for reporting testing. I'm still very interested to see how the conductive TID does though, especially on US-specific constant geometry/alloy targets like shell casings, pellets, bullets, etc and how it varies in different soils/depths. Also how much the TID varies over nuggets.

WD-40 makes a contact cleaner with the straw too which you can get locally, I can't remember where I got mine, want to say Walmart or some big store like that. It was under $10 and seems to work decently. Here's the same one on Amazon, $7.60.

@GoodAmount Does it help the cover stay on if you angle the vertical edges in towards the coil some small amount like 0.5 or 1mm to keep the edges on the coil in tension? A solid TPU skid plate might be interesting too - it's flexible so you could angle the lip in quite a lot or put a locking ridge on the top, and pop it over a coil with no tape at all - just like a cell phone case. And it would be way quieter to detect with. TPU is tough enough that it would be interesting to get rid of the skid plate altogether and see if just a layer of it on the sides and bottom of a coil would be sufficient. I think I could actually print a layer onto existing coil bottoms with some kind of glue or bonding agent, too bad the sides aren't really doable. Watching some vids on it last night, I think oven/water annealing might get a 3d printed coil to closer to the same toughness as a vacuum formed or injection molded. Between that and a good material selection, I'm thinking now it's probably possible to make an equal if not better coil housing/skid (in some cases) on a 3d printer than the commercially available ones if done with annealing and using tough plastics.

Thanks Simon, yeah I haven't even worn through a single X Coil skid yet. I was going to ask you what they were but I wasn't sure if it was some trade secret or something. So with the softer material - I can kinda do that too with a plastic called TPU. It's the same stuff as they make like wheels for carts for. Or actually, if anyone has a cell phone protector where the case is hard plastic but the outer edge is soft material, that's often TPU. I thought about trying to make a coil cover with regular plastic for rigidity and then TPU on the edges/bottom (like a cell phone case) but my initial attempts at multi-plastic printing with TPU were...uh...messy to say the least haha. But seeing as metal detectors are modernizing, seems like there is some potential for the coils too. But it looks like X Coils is already kinda doing it. That's cool!

Does it seem like the coil body itself is some burlier plastic? I have one I can try to burn and sniff but I'm a bit hesitant haha. But I think you are right on the styrene for the skid plate. Did you have any issues with layer adhesion using the ABS over time?

I think kydex is similar to PVC sorta? I think that would be toxic to print (or cut with a laser) so you'd be limited to sorta hand forming with it maybe, like with holsters. I could see it being good for skid plates though, or vacuum forming a coil body maybe if you could get thin enough sheets of it to not be too weighty. I definitely need something I can design in CAD to exact dimensions and then print though.

Anyone know what types of plastics all the manufacturers use? I am looking at printing some skid plates and coil bodies if I'm able to get some time to experiment with making my own coils next season if this Algoforce rolls around and we have use for non-chipped coils again. I can 3d print strong plastics like polycarbonate and nylon, leaning towards one of those. But I'm just curious, is there an industry standard for the types of plastics used for the injection molded coils? I feel like maybe nylon, but I'm unsure. I like the idea of transluscent polycarbonate coils so I might try that first (inspiration from Strick's x ray posts). Seems like the cheaper spools like PLA, PETG, even ABS all might be kinda too weak. I know layer adhesion makes 3d printing non ideal for wear parts, but the ability to quickly print and prototype different geometries seems compelling for experimenting. Anyone know what like NF uses for example with the modern coils like Evos? Anyone printed a coil yet and determined how robust (or weak) it is compared to injection molded of same plastic?

Simon, do you have a 12x8 Evo? There is no way I'll be able to test this thing anytime feasible, but I'm curious how the smaller spirals do vs the Sadie. I kinda suspect that 12x8 might be about as sensitive despite being quite larger.

Yeah looks like limestone or maybe dolomite - common for crushing and road base. Around here it's too expensive to haul crushed gravel long distances so the state and the road companies sometimes bring portable crush/screen plants to the project and use rock nearby. So you'll find small pits around remote projects where it's easier just to haul the crusher out instead of the gravel. That said, NV is one of the rarer places in the US where limestones can host economic metals deposits (Carlin style mineralization), so who knows. Coulda been a prospect pit from those early companies targeting Carlin trends and just kinda scattershot looking everywhere and assaying everything, just to see. The blasting permit should have company info, if it's state land then you can probably find a lease/permit there too.

Yeah true enough. I just checked and I don't see any new FCC filings from Algoforce (or Minelab for that matter). And they are usually like 3 weeks from posting on the FCC site to sales for ML, so I'm guessing this one is more than 3 weeks out at very minimum. 90 days might be about right if they already have the paperwork rolling but no testing or anything done yet.

Don't depend on a Commander for any longevity. I've owned 3 and had 3 fail. I'm guessing I'm not telling you anything new here, but I opened them up to diagnose after the 3rd and they all failed for the same reason - that foam inside is really soft/weak and the lip on the spool gets brittle and breaks off. That causes the windings to start moving around when swinging, and a lot of noise. If you swing into bushes/trees/rocks often, or mistankenly step or trip on the coil, those lips will break and the coil will fail eventually from my experience. If the Detechs are potted or use some more rigid spool material I'd say they are a win over the Commander based on that alone.

That's definitely human disturbance. Wether it was mineral mining or not I'm uncertain. That looks like tufa/limestone or maybe something volcanic, which makes me think they were just after some kind of construction grade or industrial stone, road base for a local 1-off project, etc. No idea, just my impression based off a brief look at a photo/video. If you don't see ore/mineralization then I'd say construction would be a guess. There is a drilled hole for dynamite on one rock. Someone probably filed a permit or plan somewhere if they were blasting and it was fairly recent.

I tried my best to buy one, or get one for testing, no luck for the general public in the US until FCC approval it sounds like. No timeline. Will be interesting to see reports come in, but my enthusiasm for a product I can't get access to, with no timeline on the horizon, has somewhat waned to idle curiosity. Maybe it'll get approval quick though, who knows. Now I'm starting to wonder with this release and if we have to wait up to 1 year to get it here in the US, is Minelab going to be close to releasing something too by that time? If they do, it either has to be price-competitive to this machine, or something much better if it's more expensive, so I guess we will see if it gets them off their butts or not in terms of a new release people have been waiting years for, that a customer can actually buy.

I grew one of those myself back in the 80's, we called it the yep-nope or Kentucky Waterfall though. 🙂