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Knomad

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  1. The reason I assumed that the second ground number was only related to the hot rock elimination is often that second number will not change after normal manual re-balancing.

    SO, To Recap, if I understand what you are saying is -- There is a double balance system that it always uses any time it is either manually balanced or auto balance is on, AND the Hot Rock elimination routine is NOT a secondary balance, but is in fact a Notch Out Function..?   If that is correct, I must admit I have never heard of a Notching ability on any P.I.

    Thanks for straightening Me out about the Axiom Steve.

  2. OH, I was assuming that the Second Balance was not used unless it was activated by doing the Double Balance Routine where you hold the balance button down for an extended period and moved to the second item to balance like a hot rock.

    If I understand you Steve than the secondary balance IS used by the system after a factory reset even WITHOUT a secondary balance routine being manually called for, Is that correct.?

    I will have to experiment with the Factory Reset and NO balancing, I know that will work on some ground, but these new machines are so sensitive they tend to be very noisy on a lot of ground even balanced, so that would limit use of that technique.  That No Balance and Max Sensitivity in Black Sand, But No threshold to eliminate ground noise I mentioned I find most interesting, it literally acts like a Super Noise Filter. That needs more experimentation in other conditions.!

    This machine is new to Me and I have much still to learn about it, and so far have only used it a half dozen times, I generally like it, but as with all my detectors each is better suited to certain uses and conditions than others.

  3. Yes there was a slight out of balance reaction, but really not much more than normal, and was not abnormally noisy. it makes sense that it acts much like salt if it has high black sand levels, because I know in Extreme Black Sand it could not balance AT ALL in ANY mode, and fine mode was completely unusable at any settings, But as I pointed out in the last video the BAZAAR Thing is it detected decently in EXTREME levels of Black Sand in Salt Mode and MAX Sensitivity..! BUT was unusable because of ground noise, UNLESS threshold was at zero.! Then it had only occasional breakthrough ground signals, AND did OK on target depth, nearly silently.!

    It is obvious that Fine Mode does not like noisy ground even in slow speed, if it involves black sand, I am just surprised it can seem OK but lose so much sensitivity apparently from balancing out ground level targets in fine mode under certain conditions.

    • Like 1
  4. Jeff, the difference from what you experienced and what I did is it appeared to balance pretty well in my case, BUT, lost most sensitivity in fine mode.

    A second thought is that although it was not noisy ground on that hillside that hill was about 10 feet above the same wash with the Extreme Black Sand that I showed in another video earlier and how salt mode and zero thresh hold setting worked.  But it appeared to be pretty solid granite with some crevasses I was detecting. SO, perhaps it had a higher level of black sand than it appeared.  If I ever go back to that spot I will check it with my trusty Whites GMT, I do miss it's constant magnetic sand readout.

    • Like 1
  5. That was actually the 13 inch DD coil, not the 11 inch.  I was short on time so did not try anything other than a factory reset and Re-balancing, and different modes. I do believe the general sensitivity was not what I would expect, so that is why I put down a test target I had and did a factory reset, actually twice, but it was not until I switched modes that I regained most of the sensitivity and depth, I still think 6 inches on that target was not very good.  An hour later in different ground I was detecting TINY targets at greater depths. Conclusion - Some odd Quiet ground that did not look unusual, that the programming in fine could not handle.

    • Like 1
  6. This is a link to a video of a Axiom running a 13 inch DD coil.

    I did a Factory Reset and ran the same ground balance a second time with the same results, the ground did not seem extreme, it was basically mostly Granite rock on a hillside with maybe an inch of loose soil blown on the surface. The target was on the surface and was likely a small 22 pistol size bullet half smashed.  It was as if the target had been mostly Ground Balanced Out, BUT there were no other targets anywhere near by, it only acted like it did in Fine Mode.  I could understand it if the ground somehow ground balanced very closed to the bullet reading, BUT it did not ground balance the same in any mode other than Fine. Bug in Fine Mode Balancing.?

    Odd.

    https://photos.app.goo.gl/5PAE8CR6fKQarSf18

    • Like 2
    • Oh my! 1
  7. Thanks for all the reply's, but it sounds like Gaia GPS has all the same functions, GOOD, at least the paid version. It has Public and Private Property lines, It can list Mines in the US Mines Data Base, You can use Tracking to create a record of where you went, You can Mark Points anywhere you want, including your present location, you can overlay Old maps and often pick multiple other maps, You can make lines outlining Claim Corners, Etc.  BAD, There are interface Stupidities, Like the Distance Line Scale is in skinny very hard to see type, while a Big Bold Display of a Scale Number that is basically Useless is easy to see, and a menu pops up annoyingly if you even touch the screen, But overall I like it.

      The replies are almost all about Software,  Does ANYONE know of a new tablet that is about 7 or 8 inches, that has both a GPS and Compass Chip.?  Reasonably priced.? or Any Price.?

      A few years ago I tried a Samsung A7 Tablet, the GPS worked OK and screen pretty good, BUT it lacked a Compass Chip, SO it could not point the direction you were headed Unless you were moving, making it poor for navigating to places.

     

  8. I have used Gaia GPS software for years and have the paid version for the ability to load multiple maps with layers, I use it with a Nexus 8 Tablet, mainly for the size, I find phones too small and the screen ratios not very good for viewing large areas, and 10+ inch screens too large for hiking, BUT they no longer seem to make Tablets about that size with a GPS chip and a Compass, both required for serious navigation out away from cell service, so I know it is just a matter of time until my about 10 year old Nexus will die.  I have little experience with Apple products, simply because I cannot see taking a Multi Hundred Dollar anything climbing up and down Cliffs and you name it.!

    QUESTIONS -- What GPS Hardware and Software do you use, and Why.?  I am not interested in any Cell Tower based navigation, it is just too unreliable and inaccurate, I am talking Real Satellite GPS, with a Compass to point directions.

  9. Interestingly, Even with its dated technology, I find that with the TDI by using the Ground balance adjustment more for adjusting the ferrous non ferrous crossover point than for ground balance, with careful manual adjustment I can often ID iron more accurately than the newer machines, especially large iron that will overload most detectors and give a non ferrous response, and that includes the best simultaneous multi frequency VLF machines like the equinox 800. I am sure this is why relic hunters like the TDI as Steve mentioned.

  10. 10 hours ago, Steve Herschbach said:

    Me for one. I was running a similar ultralow sensitivity while coin detecting in a park with the Axiom.

    I would expect it would work better if you did not ground balance it into the 00 00 set point but would use the default GB setting instead, or do as I described in an earlier response to you and get it close without going over the edge. I honestly have not tried 00 00 however as I made an incorrect assumption the machine was crapped out with that indication, so worth a go both ways. But yeah, people for some reason think setting like 1 are put on detectors as placeholders that serve no purpose. If it was never supposed to be run on 1 it would not have that setting. A majority of detectorists (not saying you, just in general) do not seem to understand that the ground determines the gain settings. If you go too high in bad ground the blowback from the ground actually means LESS DEPTH. Reducing the sensitivity and other related settings to appropriate amounts gives BETTER DEPTH. It does not matter what the settings are per se, just that they are just below the tipping point into the blowback situation.

    Good to hear it sounds like you are having fun!

    • Like 1
  11. I may not be making my main points clear with these posts about the Axiom and REALLY Bad Ground, so let me recap.

    I understand about sensitivity level setting being low to be able to detect in bad ground, this is generic to ALL detectors, BUT what I am saying is By use of VERY low to No threshold with the Axiom you can often MAX OUT sensitivity in such ground and Regain the depth that is usually lost with a low sensitivity setting.!  AND not have the target blend into what would be so much noise that no target can be heard with higher sensitivity AND anywhere near normal threshold.

    MAIN Point - in very bad ground, Try Zero Threshold and MAX sensitivity, There is something Unusual about the Threshold on the Axiom, It can literally act as a Noise Filter for targets, not just a threshold level, So much so that it can make UNDETECTABLE ground detectable, even when minimum sensitivity cannot.!

    That last video was to show that even with minimum sensitivity, Undetectable Ground can be detectable with Threshold off, THEN try to increase sensitivity to see at what point the ground noise comes back with NO threshold.

    • Like 4
  12. Try THIS in Lake Tahoe STEVE.!

    Below is a link I hope works to a admittedly low quality phone video I took at the worst black sand area I have ever seen.

    NOTE - The Outrageous settings on the Axiom are - Salt Mode, Sensitivity at Minimum of 1, Threshold at -9 So NO Threshold, Auto ground balance off.

    Machine would not ground balance in ANY mode or sensitivity on this ground and gave a Zero Zero balance number for both balance readouts, and no target could be heard over the very loud ground noise, SO I turned threshold OFF completely, and that helped BUT now still the ground was being detected as targets.!  SO I reduced the sensitivity until most of the ground was no longer detected, that turned out to be all the way down to 1, and still I had to lift the coil about two inches above the ground to eliminate most ground signalling, to test a target I put a dime down 3 inches and it Clearly and Repeatedly detected it, even buried.  Note it does have a different target sound than normal.

    I did not try it deeper, but am sure it would work with the signal as strong as it was with the coil 2 inch above the ground, so actually a distance of 5 inches in this ridiculous ground.

    Salt Mode, Sensitivity of 1, and NO Threshold - Went From Undetectable Ground to working well, Who in their right mind would even try such settings.!!  🙃

     

    https://photos.app.goo.gl/rVhX4avWLfiUBTrc9

    • Like 6
  13. 11 hours ago, timbus59 said:

    Good list... Axiom AT? I would add waterproof, as long as we're wishing.

    True Waterproofing ANY detector is really a complete new design, so unless they believe a big enough market exist that is not practical.  Water resistance is not too involved, Underwater capability is.

    • Like 1
  14. The Axiom is already a upper grade pulse detector, and obviously Garrett listened to experienced nugget hunters when designing it, and now that it has been in the field in far more hands and conditions we see the few weaknesses it has, and Ways To Improve it.  Below I list what comes to mind up to this point, Please add to this list for Garrets consideration.

    1.  It really needs Bluetooth, for the simple reason everyone has their own headset they like best.

    2.  The present wireless is too weak and seems directional, so drops out easily.

    3.  The Lower end of the Sensitivity setting scale should be expanded so finer changes can be made, the change from setting 2 to 3 to 4 is too course.

    4.  Threshold setting has the same problem as the sensitivity setting, it tends be be too course at the lower end of the scale.

    5.  Offer Conventional Elliptical DD Coils with more sensitive pointy ends to deal with noisy black sand and be able to get into tight places better, 5 x 10 would be a good start.

    Longer Term Design Improvements --

    1.  Change to a high contrast Anti Glare Color Screen, and add Sun Shade to the top.  (not unreasonable for a high end machine).

    2.  Change to a more flexible type of coil cable to work better with the nice collapsible shafts, perhaps just changing to silicone mix plastic cover would be enough.

    Suggested Future Avenue of Improving Technology --

    As is, The Axiom has the ability to apparently use the Threshold to filter out background noise, Not just reduce its volume at least at silent minimal setting of --9, So Much So that Sensitivity can be set to Max to keep depth on ground that would otherwise require a very low sensitivity setting.  I Highly Suggest that be explored and refined as a separate Noise Filter optional setting.

     

    LISTENING GARRETT..?

     

     

     

     

    • Like 6
    • Thanks 1
  15. The Goldbug 2 was always the go to for small shallow gold on moderate ground, but the Monster is newer tech that is a better bet, and as easy to use as it gets.  The XP is more of a general purpose detector.  A Minelab Equinox 800 would be a better general purpose detector, and is as good as any VLF on gold.

    • Like 3
  16. When I first went to this location a few years ago it was Virtually Undetectable, a Nox 800 in any mode with any settings, a Whites GMT, a Fisher Goldbug Pro, and a Whites TDI SL, could not even detect a Brass Shotgun Shell even level with the surface.

    This time I think the Black Sand has sunk, But is near pure iron and in both concentrated areas as well as small spots everywhere, so any coil movement detects another glob it seems.

    If I did not know where the test target was, it is highly unlikely I would find it with sensitivity high enough to detect it, even moving slow, the threshold was way too noisy even at minimal setting, like it was Mixing Threshold with target sound. BUT with threshold Completely OFF somehow it filtered the background noise sound but still allowed the Target Sound, in ALL except fine mode that was unusable. What was heard was an occasional clipping of target sound, but basically silent other than that. NOTE- This ONLY worked well at FULL sensitivity of 8.!   Anything below 6 and the target was lost,  So Silent Searching AT MAXIMUM sensitivity..!  When otherwise a sensitivity of 3 was REQUIRED to detect the target BUT was Unbearably Noisy.

     

    • Like 2
  17.  
     This test was on the worst Black Sand Ground I have seen, although it is not as bad as it was a few years ago, I suspect the Black Sand has sunk deeper. Years ago NO detector could even see a Brass Shotgun Shell deeper than even with ground level.!
     
    I tested 3 detectors, My Equinox 800, My Whites Goldmaster GMT, and the new Garrett Axiom.  The first two are very good VLF detectors, the Axiom is the latest technology Pulse Detector.  Pulse Detectors are almost always better in really bad ground conditions.
      ALL 3 detectors would not ground balance fully on this ground, at least at anywhere near normal sensitivity, the GMT did at reduced sensitivity.
     
    Interesting Axiom testing --
      I tested with 3 coils, The 11 x 13 DD, The 7 x 11 DD and The 7 x 11 Mono.
    NONE of the coils would fully ground balance at even a sensitivity setting of 3, and was noisy at 2.  The exception was in Salt Mode, it at least came close to balancing, so was the quietest with a low threshold setting.
      Fine Mode, was basically non usable with ALL coils and a sensitivity above 2.
      Normal was usable but noisy at 3, But really hard on the ears.
      Large, about the same as Normal, just not as clear on the target.
      Salt, was by far the quietest but with depth loss of 1 to 2 inches.
      Target - a piece of lead, likely a banged up 22 bullet, just 6 inches deep, NO coil would detect this target in this ground at less than a sensitivity setting of 3, and was Very Noisy at 3.
     
    INTERESTINGLY -- ALL modes, except Fine, could be run at FULL Sensitivity, but with the Threshold OFF at -9..!
      AND detect the target.!
    The ONLY other way to run it was with sensitivity below 3 (and miss the target) or go insane from ground noise.
    ( NOTE - I usually run my detectors slightly hot, with minimal threshold, so am used to background noise, But that is NOT possible here.)
     
    The 11 x 13 DD had the clearest and strongest target response.
      The 7 x 11 DD was OK, But Surprisingly More Noisy. I had expected it to be less noisy looking at less ground, but maybe it is more sensitive, so reacts more to the ground that is not fully balanced out.
      The 7 x 11 Mono was as expected, slightly more sensitive than the same size DD, But substantially noisier.
     
    Strange, But with no threshold it has to break past a zero point to signal anything, But it will in this extreme ground.
      Normally there is a substantial sensitivity loss with no low threshold, but with ground this noisy it seems to filter the noise, with a smaller sensitivity loss.
     
    Unfortunately the Dual Balance did not seem to work, even holding the button until it goes into dual balance, I suspect because it was not hot Rocks, Just Black Sands, so couldn't tell the difference, and balance numbers were inconsistent and all over the place.
     
     
    BTW, neither VLF could see the target deeper than 2 inches.
    • Like 6
    • Thanks 1
    • Oh my! 1
  18. I was unaware Minelab has changed to a proprietary wireless system from the good combo system on the 800.

    Why change what worked well, their proprietary system worked ok, and the Built In Bluetooth worked with most other Bluetooth systems, BUT like I said Everyone has their own favorite headphone or other system, so TALK ABOUT NOT Customer centered..!

    Word of Advice to Garrett -- Take advantage of Minelabs Alienating its customer base with removing functionality WHILE Increasing Prices..!   ADD Built in Bluetooth AND Decrease the price of your Axiom..!  AND Come up with a true competitor to the VERY Successful Equinox.!

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