Raphis

Tom, in my past 13 years of hunting a thousand parks/sites with my Explorer SE here in CA, I have only come across maybe 3-4 zones/areas within these sites where no amount of “tinkering” with my machine would allow me to hunt, given my ultra high EMI tolerance....that’s it! An extremely infinitesimal statistic! It’s a “way of life” down here to hunt many old, inner city, blighted parks with ratchety sounding EMI...and so far, in all the sites I have hunted with my Nox (which happens to be spots that I have hunted countless times in the past with my Explorer), I have not noticed any worse conditions while using my Nox! In fact, I would say the Nox allows me to hunt some areas with less bothersome EMI than I had while hunting with my Explorer....I think this is because of the advantage of the Nox’s ability to lower the ferrous volume (in addition to very low non-ferrous signal volume), while hunting all metal (wide open)....Something you couldn’t do with the FBS machines.... ......but if, as you say “there would be no way in hell that “any” hunter could hunt in that type of noise” you heard in your buddy’s headphones, then I have no explanation for you...maybe I would then have to bump up by 1 my infinitesimally small occurrence of unhuntable ground since I’ve been hunting with ML machines

If someone hasn’t been pounding turf as long as you have with your Explorer, no machine/person is gonna “spank” you! 🤣 Thats like asking some amateur to get in the ring with Mike Tyson! Not a very smart move! Hunting trashy/EMI infested turf isn’t for everyone...it requires years of patience, persistence, perseverance to become “One” with the turf to pop out oldies/deepies beyond mere mortals!! 💪🏼😆 I would agree with you that an original SE with stock “slimline” coil was insubordinate to that same SE with a ML Pro Coil, or even the original 1050 Explorer II coil, but that’s as far as I will concede. Hunting down here in our So Cal trashy parks with with a person who has used an Ace 250 for 10 years would not bag you more oldies than a person who has hunted 10 years down here with a Minelab machine...and if one remained hard-headed and didn’t want to switch to a Minelab machine where I hunt, sure, you would get a few oldies here and there, but it won’t even be close to the same person with the same time put in with a Minelab Explorer, SE, Etrac, CTX l, etc....49 out of my 50 buddies who hunt turf here over the past 13 years use a Minelab machine to hunt turf. EMI tolerance from one treasure hunter to another is definitely not equal!! Some hunters can definitely hunt in higher EMI than others can! The brain of one hunter can still tell target from false signal at much higher noise levels than another hunter can...

Tom, I’ve been hunting with V3 update a couple days after it got released, and I have not noticed anything different with my machine, with regards to EMI, than I did before the update ! You’re making a false hypothesis in thinking V3 handles EMI worse than 2.1.12....with only a single hunt at your site.....even though your buddy’s Nox seemed to worsen while hunting the same spot as he did before hunting there....the “variable” that you will never be able to normalize for successive hunts there is the EMI, even at the same site hunting it 10x in a row! If your buddy regresses back to 2.1.12 and hunts your spot in question 10 times, and all those 10 times the Nox is more manageable than that one hunt he did while using V3, then one may start to investigate if V3 did something with regards to frequency shifting in Multi, but I highly doubt this.. Has he “spanked” you before with his Nox in any turf??? Now you’re just being silly!!! 😹 No Explorer II has an advantage over an SE Pro....in any turf! Certainly, if I had found this to be true, are you saying I would have found 6000 silvers and 40,000 Wheats instead of 5000/30,000 that I found over my 13 years with my SE? 😅. You will fail miserably in trying to convince me anything of the sort, so don’t even try to do that...🤔 I never needed to run my Explorer over 23 sens (I did many comparisons on mybSE over the years on optimal sens), and rarely ran it below 17... I wish your friend had been down here the day my buddy’s Explorer was “choking” on EMI , while my Nox was still able to pull oldies/deepies! If I felt the Nox was anything “less” capable than my Explorer, I would have sold it in a heartbeat and continued using my vintage, trusted, beloved machine!

Tom, I’ve got a buddy that had his Nox for two years now, and he suffers terribly in finding deepie coin signals with either his Explorer SE or his Nox when the EMI is bad...here’s a perfect example of a situation/hunt where my Nox was spanking an Explorer SE......about a couple months ago, me, with my brand new Nox (only a few hrs under my belt) and my buddy with his trusted Explorer SE (years of hunts under his belt) are detecting in a high EMI zone...My buddy got so frustrated/aggravated that he couldn’t decipher a deep target in this section of park that day, while I was digging a 2 Rosie spill and other various deep wheats in this heavily pillaged Park. The EMI at this site that day was pretty bad! My buddy let me listen to the audio of his SE, and it was horrendous...even me, who has felt “at home” hunting deepies in EMI infested areas for years, would probably have had issues had I used his SE (or if I had brought my SE). My Nox, on the other hand, was not nearly as noisy as his SE was...I was hunting in multi...this was before the V3 update had come out. The opposite happened to my buddy (SE) and me (Nox) that day I wrote about above....So, your Explorer was purring like a kitten the whole time during your hunt? Not a hint of EMI? What sensitivity were you using on your Exp? I have been going back to sites where EMI was a real pain in the ass when I was using my SE. My other buddy (Jamflicker) had also experienced high EMI on his Etrac at these same zones at these sites we hunted together. At most of these sites I’ve been hunting with my Nox now for the past couple of months, I’ve managed to pull many more silvers/wheats. I doubt it...EMI is the variable!! It can be downright nasty at times, then somewhat manageable in the same area you’re hunting.... Has there ever been a time at a site you’ve hunted where the EMI rendered your Explorer useless (even to you, being a master level Explorer hunter)? Even though my Nox will snap, crackle, and pop due to uncontrollable EMI (no noise channel will squelch it, while in multi or single freq), I’m still able to decipher the deeper coin signals to the same abilities that I could when I used my SE all these years! I find myself doing noise cancels just as frequently with my Nox (maybe even more so because auto-noise cancel is so much better/faster on the Nox than it is on my SE).

All Bluetooth devices don’t automatically have the Qualcomm aptX low latency codec. The headphones have to support it thru additional hardware/firmware... The stock ML headphones that come with your Nox do have the aptX LL circuitry and will have audio lag in the low 40’s milliseconds (highly desirable), as opposed to regular Bluetooth, which will have latencies well over 100 ms, which is very noticeable when you wiggle your coil over a target.

Those headphones will not be very good for detecting, unless you’re using the WM-08 module with them....if you want to use wireless headphones without the WM08 module, you should get a pair that support the Qualcomm aptX Low Latency codec. Without the low latency, standard Bluetooth audio will be way too laggy (for me, it certainly is). The aptX LL circuitry significantly lowers the audio delay by a factor of 3.

Yes...It’s 3.1.3....the previous version was 2.1.12.

https://www.detectorprospector.com/forums/topic/13400-another-nox-ground-balance-question/?do=findComment&comment=134273 Chase made a reply to me and a couple others about what you’re asking last Wednesday.....click the link I just copied/pasted.

....and adjustable noise cancel...without having to re-power the machine back up

That’s a very good, educated guess, Chase! I will Sounds like a very good, educated guess! 👍🏼 I’ve already committed that to my memory for future reference... Thanks....

Chase, I asked this in another thread just a few moments ago, but why (in more technical terms) is Iron Bias not applicable to single frequency modes? Why is IB only a “filter” for Multi-freq operation??

Chase, question for you.....why is Iron Bias only functional in Multi-freq mode? What are the roadblocks ML couldn’t incorporate this?? This question has been perplexing to me....🤔. If I had the ability to use a low F2 IB with a low single frequency, it could be a deadly duo on the Nox for deep silver and other higher conductive old coinage....and similarly wouldn’t IB be just as valuable for someone using a high, single frequency mode? Update: Thanks for your plausible, best educated explanation on this topic in the other thread! 👍🏼 https://www.detectorprospector.com/forums/topic/13436-equinox-saving-personal-program-800/?do=findComment&comment=134638

4 kHz is not part of multi-frequency....it’s just a single frequency. One thing about the video that you may not have noticed, is he was using Park 2 detect mode on his machine, which, on Multi freq mode, is more internally “higher” frequency weighted...that means Park 2 mode is more suited for small jewelry/gold and other lower conductors.....Park 1 Multi is better suited for high conductive targets (lower frequency weighted), and would be a better mode to test for deep silver coinage.

User Profile question... If I were to utilize the User Profile feature to only toggle 4 kHz mode from my Park 1 Multi settings (thanks Sinclair for that suggestion), one would need to ground balance and noise cancel this User profile first before using it in the area a person is detecting?? I also wonder if User Profile utilizes the internally weighted frequencies and predefined ground balance maximizing algorithms of the detecting Mode you saved there (i.e. Park 1, Field 2, etc) ?? On second thought, I imagine if you saved a single frequency (4 kHz) in the user profile, then the info I described in the previous sentence wouldn’t apply...because those internal stored features for each Detect Mode are only applicable for multi-frequency mode...Hmmm 🤔 I like this utilization of the User Profile (if I wanted to toggle 4 kHz freq), since I couldn’t come up with a reason to utilize User Profile on my machine yet.

You may not like the answer I’m going to give you, but the Nox 800 doesn’t have multiple memory banks where you can store multiple instances of the same detect mode Profile.....On the 800, each detect Mode has 2 search profiles (i.e. Park 1 and 2, Field 1 and 2, Beach 1 and 2, Gold 1 and 2). The 800 also has a User Profile feature that allows you to save all the “local” settings of the current active detect mode...This allows you to save your local settings and recall them back whenever you want to for your current detect mode you’re using....Also, when your User Profile is activated, any changes you make to your local settings will be saved to the User Profile......refer to the Nox 800 manual for what constitutes a “local” setting, as opposed to a Global or Semi-Global setting. To tell you the truth, I’ve been using Minelab machines for the past 13 years now, and I haven’t needed to save programs with any of my machines, except for a special smart find (Discrimination) screen that I saved on my SE Pro, and utilized only when I came across super hot, mineralized ground in the areas I detect at....On the Nox 800, I haven’t used the User Profile feature....not sure I ever will...

Hello, Tom and Steve! Tom, you’ve already lost the shootout, because there’s no way possible you’d “spank” both Steve and I with our Nox’s! When Steve and I tell you the Nox is more proficient at finding deepies in trashy turf than an Explorer can, you better listen! I’d love to come up for a hunt with you, but I’m gonna stay put where I am right now...gonna ride out this pandemic surge and stay local.....no trips or staying with others for a while....Sorry Steve, the “OK Corral” shootout must be postponed...even though I don’t need any more time to tweak/fine tune my Nox any further 😆 In the meantime, we most certainly can be involved in plenty of discussion based on our objective, learned detecting experiences spanning decades in CA. No conjecture...😉 .....and if I thought an Exp II would have given me an advantage over my SE Pro, I’d have swapped my blessed machine 12 years ago...I have never felt “short-handed”...I always feel I have the advantage on every hunt I’ve ever been on! 🤓 HH, Dan 💪🏼💪🏼

Chase, isn’t 4 Khz a harmonic frequency of a 50 Hz powerline? 5 KHz doesn’t line up very well with 60 Hz power lines either.. Even if I’m operating my machine around 60 Hz electrical, 4 KHz is no more a harmonic frequency of 60 Hz than 5 KHz is...hmmm Also, the noise channels increase/decrease operating frequency a little over 100 Hz with each setting...wouldn’t that ensure harmonic frequencies would be less problematic?

There are no stupid questions...only stupid people who don’t ask for help because they think they know it all already 😂 I think the ground balance numbers are simply telling you the level of mineralization in the ground (i.e. how hot the ground is). Higher numbers are an indication of higher levels of mineralized ground...In my areas I detect, I’ve only seen a max ground balance value in the 20’s....but I’ve seen other YouTube videos where a Nox’s ground balance number was in the high 70’s.....In other words, you shouldn’t decide what ground balance number your Nox wants to be at for the given ground you’re swinging on...the machine should decide the proper ground balance for you to get the best depth and less falsing of signals in the ground....

There are numerous sources of EMI. My cellphone is attached around my waist while I detect, and I have not noticed any erratic issues with my machine, even though I have read that noise can be generated by cellphones in short bursts that can affect detectors....cell phone frequencies are in the Megahertz bandwidth, while detectors function in the kilohertz bandwidth...so I would think that cellphone communications wouldn’t greatly affect metal detectors to a degree that other sources of emi can. Go and read the article below I found about EMI and metal detectors. http://www.metaldetectingintheusa.com/files/explanation-of-emi.pdf

The best depth you can achieve with your Nox with respect to ground balance is when you’ve normalized your machine to the ground minerals in the area you’re detecting at. Whether that be at a value of -3 or 78, etc.....it depends on the minerals in the ground. I don’t like to do a completely “manual” ground balance...I prefer holding in the accept/reject button while pumping my coil up and down a few times (in an area of ground that is free of any ferrous/non-ferrous targets), and letting the machine arrive at a ground balance value after it has normalized the ground with the air. I also think it is more beneficial to “not” leave your machine in “auto-track” mode when you detect in highly trashy turf.....with auto tracking on, your machine will be trying to normalize the ground while the coil may be over a conductive target. I don’t use my Nox at the beach, so I can’t tell you if auto-tracking ground balance would be beneficial in that environment, but I’ve read it can be...with varying amounts of black sand at specific beaches

Congrats on your finds, Mitchell! EMI is a strange beast! It can come up all of a sudden, and be a downright nuisance!! There’s hardly a park I can go to around me that doesn’t have some level of EMI.... HH, Dan

Here in CA, we’re blessed with many S mint coins...so I have found lots of S mint teens wheats....just last month, I found another 1909 S wheat.....I also have 5-6 vdb’s (also ‘08 S and ‘09 S Indian pennies), but the ‘09 S vdb penny still eludes me...that I know of lol...those zits on the early copper coins are more times than not in the places the mint mark and vdb Mark is located. Not yet sure what to do with my wheat pennies...

Thank you, GB, for informing me about IB not being active in single freq modes....I do recall reading about that a while back, but somehow that limitation slipped through my long term memory 🤓 when I say “silver coinage”, I mean all US dimes, quarters, Halfs from 1964 and earlier (90% silver coinage), along with wartime nickels (1942-1945), in addition to any foreign silver coinage I may find....I don’t count sterling jewelry in my yearly silver coin counts......my wheat penny count is around 30 thousand coins over the past 10 years...I had a long running avg of 3-4 wheat pennies per silver coin found....I never posted my “clad” coinage on the forums...just the “Oldies”.....but the Coinstar machines know me well..I can’t even factor how much clad coinage I have cashed into those machines...(I choose Amazon gift cards instead of cash vouchers to avoid paying the 10-12% fee). I do find a lot of clad quarters and dimes....I dig all quarter signals, but my dime/penny signals have to be a certain “Oldie depth” for me to recover....there’s just too many in our parks here to dig all of those signals

Yes, I was “married” to my SE for 13 years...Haha!! However, my beloved machine will be sitting in its detecting case in the garage, and won’t be coming along with me in the car anymore.....The Nox is just amazing me everyday I’m using it! Sure, the inline probe was pretty nice! I went through 6 of them over the 13 years....I bought a few new inline probes (probe only, no switch box) from Ralph about 7 years ago, when his stock was down to nothing.. I was averaging 500 silver coinage a year for a good 9 years....my best year was 794 (2015), which blew me away because I started pounding/pillaging my locale back in 2007 with my SE.

You found me already ☺️ I just joined this forum after many years of being on a bunch of forums and posting my finds. Tell Mr. Tom Tanner when you chat with him next that I’m on this forum now and I just purchased a Nox 800 a few weeks ago, and I am having a blast with this machine!! I’ve already found 40 silver so far with my new Nox (at sites that I’ve hunted countless times in the past years with my Explorer SE)...Tell Tom I feel the Nox is a superior machine to my Explorer SE (He’ll probably cringe at that statement, but he’ll believe me...). Don’t get me wrong...I have found a mountain of silver, wheats, Injuns, etc with my Explorer SE pro....but I finally bit the bullet (after 13 years), and picked up a Nox! I’m so satisfied with this machine! It’s weighs nothing compared to my SE w/inline probe..I never thought I would say this, but the Nox is superior in depth at trashy sites (especially at sites with nasty EMI), and can locate deep targets co-located with iron better than my SE...I also enjoy hunting in all-metal now(couldn’t do that in conductive mode on my Explorer), no threshold, with Iron target volume set low. I thought I would miss my Sunray In-line probe, but I don’t miss it one bit! I won’t be posting any finds though...I was posting finds across 4 different forums for many years....I much prefer these types of discussions boards with a good mix of highly competent/knowledgeable treasure hunters, along with a good mix of hunters with a willingness to learn more and become better TH’ers!! HH, Dan (aka Raphis/CAPTNSE)