Gold Hound
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Posts posted by Gold Hound
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I like the Auto timing Idea a lot Steve.
I recon they could expand on your Idea and have a mineralization line graph on the screen telling us what the current and past ground conditions are doing under the coil and the suggested timing.
You could use this to identify and follow a particular ground anomaly.
And wouldn't it be cool if they had a visual threshold display that acts like an oscilloscope and visually shows you the threshold and target response!
They could easily with some work incorporate these in to the next generation ZVT detector!
Just imagine how this would open up the gold fields again!
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Hi Steve
I think you did a pretty good job on your guide for beginners as the GPX can be a rabbit hole for the casual user.
My first advice is always;
READ THE MANUAL, then read it again, then read it some more! seriously you cannot read the manual enough!
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Great info, thanks for sharing! I now see why you are successful in chasing the weight, you squeeze every advantage out of your machine that it is capable of producing by thoroughly learning and experimenting with the settings. Most of us never reach this level of expertise with our detectors, the majority of us are "Turn and Go" junkies who never really realise what we are missing.
Many of us are in the same situation with the GPX 5000 and now with the introduction of the ZED are thirsting for some miracle settings that will give us some more depth and sensitivity, pray tell you have some?
Thanks Rege-PA
That's why I tried to explain as best as I could the effect of each setting so you could more easily make an educated decision in YOUR situation.
My gold modes are a good start but you still need to read the ground and apply and modify the right one to optimize for your area.
I know the 5000 and all other Minelab pi's inside out for both gold field in Australia and treasure hunting in Europe, but I have only 6hrs on the Zed due to a badly broken arm, so I'm still in my Zed infancy!
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I added the exchange2 file and added the link to my original post.
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Great post Gold Hound, thanks. Have you ever tried the 17 inch coil ?
BB
I have the 17 but I took it to Europe and left it with my treasure hunting kit because I hardly ever used it here in Australia.
And the 6in I gave to my friend and prospecting partner Tremain because he didn't have a small coil.
So I only have the 11 and the coiltek here in aus.
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sorry guys I couldn't post the exchange2 modes file
It says wrong file type???????
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- Popular Post
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CTX 3030 on gold nuggets
Hi guys
I have had the CTX since it was released.
However I did not purchase it for the same reasons as most others bought it for, I bought it primarily to look for larger gold in areas that have a high trash density where non discriminating detectors like the GPX will drive you nuts digging junk.
It has the best discrimination and target separation of any detector I have used this far, particularly if the trash is iron.
That is why I use it for this job if the trash density is low I just swap back to a gold detector and would never waist my time using it in low trash areas for gold nuggets.
To give you an idea of what I am talking about with trash density’s and to establish an understanding I will break them into 4 groups.
1- Very low trash= up to 10 targets in a 5mx5m area.
This area I would use a gold detector like the GPX in.
2- Low trash 10 to 25 targets in a 5mx5m area.
This area I would still use the gold detector in if it is worthwhile.
But if the gold density is low I will start to use the discriminating detector.
3- Med trash= 25 to 50 targets in a 5mx5m area.
I am definitely reaching for the discriminating detector now unless there is a high gold density.
4- High trash 50+ targets in a 5mx5m area.
Discriminating detector only! any other is a waist of time.
Ok now that I have established a base line of trash density’s we can get to the nitty gritty, I will go through the settings that have an effect on gold field performance one by one and explain how I use them, or play them against each other to squeeze the best performance out of the CTX that I can for my given situation.
Target trace; I turned it on and would never turn it off as it is very useful in helping to identify a target or multiple targets under the coil and I am yet to find a reason to turn it back off.
Why this key feature was not on by default is anyone’s guess.
Target trace pinpoint; I turned this on and never turned it off ether, as it greatly assists in pinpointing particularly if there are multiple targets under the coil, by using this feature you can pinpoint only the desired target most times.
Threshold Pitch; I run it at 13 but everybody is different all you are after is a threshold pitch that is comfortable for you to listen to all day.
Threshold level; set up threshold so that it is soft but clearly audible, the manual covers this in detail.
Volume Gain; now this is a important one, I mostly just have it at max=30 but if you are getting spurious noises like those faint blipping noises that you can sometimes get in mineralized ground you can wind this back to cancel them out with less loss of depth than turning back the sensitivity, however it has its limitations in this regard. It is basically an audio amplifier that amplifies the target signal.
Sensitivity; Obviously you want to keep this as high as possible, but in the gold fields the ground usually contains various minerals and because the CTX is a multiple frequency detector ‘Auto’ sensitivity is more effective in these conditions, because the processor individually adjusts each of them to their optimum setting.
Where as in manual you can only adjust them all to the same setting which means that if one is effected by mineralization or emi and becomes noisy, you have to turn them all down to the level where the noise stops in that frequency and you are effectively choking the rest to quieten the detector.
So this is why Auto is the best option on the CTX in gold field areas. I can usually run Auto +3 but I turn it down if I am getting a lot of spurious ground noise and I can’t use any of my other tricks to get rid of the noise.
Response; My favored response is ‘Long’ but I also like ‘Normal’ as well. It depends on my anticipated target size and trash density as to which one I’ll use.
In a medium to high trash area I prefer Long particularly if the gold size is 3g+ like in tailings oversize piles.
I like normal for smaller gold and lower trash density.
Recovery Fast; I nearly always have this on as it aids in target separation.
And superior target separation is one of my main reasons for using the CTX
Recovery Deep; I have this on if the trash density is low or medium particularly when using the smaller coils.
Recovery deep improves the ID on deep targets and can improve the signal on deep targets marginally but it can cause spurious noise in some mineralized ground.
So if it’s on and you are getting spurious noise recovery deep could be the cause so try turning it off before dropping the volume gain or sensitivity.
Target Separation; The 2 best target separation modes for gold nuggets are ‘High Trash’ and ‘Ground Coin’, I use High Trash the most as most areas I target most with the CTX are med to high trash areas and High Trash is good at handling mineralization and still gives you very good target separation.
In a area with low trash density that is mineralized I use Ground Coin but it dose not perform well in high a trash density as you will get some blending of targets.
In a low to very low mineralization area ‘Ferrous Coin’ performs very good no matter the trash density, but is no good in mineralized areas as you will get blending of the ground and target, which makes the target ID go crazy and blending is a problem.
Gold Hunting Discrimination and Audio Patterns.
Below I have posted a few example modes that have a good base discrimination pattern and audio pattern to suit the situation that I use them in.
100’s of hours of work went into building each of them.
When building your own pattern I recommend that you do what I did which is scan as many nuggets as you can get your hands on of various sizes.
When I did this I scanned just over 1000 nuggets ranging from .2g to 32oz and I put the ones that show on the edge of my pattern aside and took them to a few locations and buried them in different mineralization to test and modify my mode’s, then I got my bucket of junk and scanned 1000’s of pieces of junk commonly found in the gold fields.
Then I modified my modes again to cancel out most of the junk whilst still keeping most of the nugget area open.
They are not perfect by any means but they have been pretty useful for me as a base but if I keep getting one type of junk in a specific area I will modify the discrimination to deal with it and save it as a new mode in my file.
You might also notice that in all of my gold specific discrimination patterns that I have the top two lines rejected, this is because in mineralized ground the ground will give you a blipping signal always in these top two lines and rather than sacrificing performance by turning the sensitivity or audio settings down I dealt with this by blanking it out, buy doing it how I did I lost no depth due to having to back off the settings and no good target ever ID’s only in these lines.
The audio patterns that are part of the mode also have a few tweaks that I have done for gold nugget specific reasons.
If you look at the Audio profile in the exchange software you will notice that I have set the low Ferrous tone line very low down at the 32 ferrous line, I did this because I found that when using the discrimination pattern if the tone was set higher up at say 17 for example I would get some audio blanking or mixing on some good targets in very trashy areas.
This is the main reason that most of my Gold nugget modes have ether a ‘2 Ferrous Tone’ or ‘Combined’ ‘Tone ID Profile’.
But when set low at 32 ferrous line the separation was very good in a cluttered area. It is not that noticeable on larger 3g+ nuggets but on the smaller ones even on the smaller coils (6in and coiltek elliptical) if I had the ferrous audio line higher it would not separate the nugget from the trash as efficiently.
That is why I mostly prefer the discrimination pattern over the open screen also.
http://www.detectorprospector.com/forum/files/file/4-gold-hound-ctx-gold-modes/
Coils
My preferred coil for the CTX is the standard 11in coil because I mostly chase the bigger gold in the tailings oversize piles and old diggers camps. But in areas with predominantly smaller gold I put on the coiltek 11x5.
I also did away with the skid plate on the ML 11in coil as it wears out in a matter of hours in gold field situations and I silicon-ed a piece of 3mm lexan plastic in its place.
And after 2 years of heavy use it is still in good condition!
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If you guys are interested I'll do a full write up on gold plucking (thats what we call it) with the CTX in trashy areas in gold field dirt.
I have done 100's of hours of this, and have easily pulled over 10oz since its release.
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The ability to interface the V3i with a PC was promised early on and never delivered on. That was a disappointment.
All the on screen magic the V3i performs is a wonder to behold but half the time it is just easier to dig the target than to analyze it 16 different ways. Main thing for me it is runs my Big Foot coil.
Its a pitty they never delivered.
As this is a major failing on the Whites.
I love the excange2 software and how quickly\easily you can make a entirely new mode with discrimination pattern and audio pattern and settings to suit your needs.
I have made 47 different modes for all of my different types of locations and goals.
Although the manual is quite simple you can do a lot with the CTX to customize it to suit your needs.
I really like the long audio type in conjunction with a two tone audio pattern
And my custom discrimination pattern it is deadly on gold in the trashy tailing's.
The target separation and discrimination is second to none when you learn how to best use the settings, target trace, audio pattern and discrimination pattern to get the most out of it.
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I really liked the Whites but the Achilles heel of it is that it dose not have software like the minelab excange2 software to change the settings and make patterns\modes ect.
Doing this through the detector is a real pain!
If whites made software like minelab there detector would definatly still be in my kit.
I got rid of mine because I play with the settings constantly and it was a pain compared to the CTX and it filled the same need.
But I loved being able to use one frequency.
If the Whites had software for bulding modes, changing settings like the CTX
It would probably be my goto coin\treasure detector.
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This thread has me leaning definitely towards the CTX as my first vlf in, bloody hell on thinking, 20 years. Few weeks ago wasn`t even considering a VLF, thanks fellows. Got a fair few tailings and trash sites I`ve avoided for too long.
All I do is camp on the area say tailings piles and detect all day as normal away from camp.
Then after dinner I just wander around the piles.
The only trouble with this is I sometimes get carried away and stay out to late when I find a nice bit!
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I've been using the CTX for finding gold nuggets in trash areas like tailings oversize piles, old diggers camps, ect here in Australia since its release.
I have easily found over 10oz doing this.
I spent alot of time building my discrimination patterns and audio to suit and playing with the settings.
When I was building the pattern I scanned over 1000 different nuggets from .2g to 32oz.
Here in aus our ground varies alot from heavy mineralization to low mineralization so I built 3 different modes that cover these all with minimal adjustment's.
Once you learn the CTX and how it operates under different soil conditions and get to know the target trace it is a weapon in any area that has a lot of trash particularly iron.
The target separation and discriminator is the best I have ever used for this type of work.
And all of the audio options availabe I just love it!
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Radiant energy disperses into all three dimensions and so decreases in the cube of the distance. So it's the inverse distance cubed.
since the.energy goes out both from the coil and then from the target back to the receive coil, the total energy loss in both directions is the distance times 10 to the 6th power, or a million times.
Look up 'inverse square law' on Wikipedia and you will se what I am talking about.
You're right about energy traveling out from the source in 3 dimensions, it travels out in an ever expanding sphere.
My explanation and mathematics are correct the inverse square law takes into consideration all 3 dimensions.
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That explanation is still simplified and dose not explain what is hapening correctly.Detection patterns are far more complex than the blade and cone mythology sold by the marketers. One only need observe reality in the field to see that patterns for large targets and small targets are entirely different, even on the same coil. How many people know that the detection pattern for a small nugget on a large PI mono coil is a hula hoop, not a cone?
Same with GPZ. With large targets it acts like a mono coil but smaller targets react more to proximity to the coils winding overlap. The small targets also reverse tones in relation to where they are relative to said windings, producing some complex signals.
From the GPZ owners manual:
More information on the GPZ 14 coil http://www.detectorprospector.com/forum/topic/670-gpz-14-coil-for-minelab-gpz-7000/
Both the transmit and recive are governed buy the 'inverse square law'.
The transmit field is emitted by the detector's coil this disipates at the square to the distance from the source, the coil winding.
Detector technician's know this, that is why all coils are a closed loop and the most efficent shape is a circle.
As the shape of the coil concentrates the signal under the middle of the coil.
To plot the field all you have to do is ise the 'inverse square law' and draw circles radiating from the coil winding where these overlap under the coil is where the field is strongest.
This concentrated field energizes the target, the target now produces its own signal, many times weaker than the original signal.
And this signal now dissipates acording to the inverse square law in more or less a spherical pattern depending on the target shape.
And the detector now has to try and recive this much weaker signal.
Now think about how the different types of coil's recive this signal that is dissipating according to the inverse square law.
Once you get an undersanding of this simple law of physics and think about what is happening under the coil you will get a real understanding of what is happening under the coil what ever type it is.
If I had any computer skills I would make an animation or a diagram of what is happening but I don't.
Simple physics really!
I blame all of the detector manufacturers for spreading over simplifed information on this subject when it is not that complcated.
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I hope minelab are listening!
If they don't bring out a big coil like a 20in round or even better if its bigger there will be a lot of dissaponted pro's out there.
And its us that find the bulk of the gold that make them look good and if we are out there pulling out lumps its free advertising for them.
Give us a 20in or bigger coil!
Any smaller will just not do for us!
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Simple just flick into fixed gb when recovering the target problem solved.
I will make flicking to fixed part of my modus operandi if I get the same problem.
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Do a sg test on it.
Weight in air then weight in water to figure out its sg.
If its any higher than sg18 its likley a pgm.
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Hit it with a hammer if it is brittle it is likley to be antinomy or bismuth.
If it is not brittle it could be if your lucky a pgm.
If it is hard enough to dent or mark tne hammer it is almost certainly a pgm.
Pgm= platinum palladium osmium rhodium iridium ect.
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I had numerous offer's to go to Sudan but when I found out off a friend that seved in the sas over there that a aus\uk\usa passport is worth over 1 million dollar's there and the whole country is controlled by different militants I decided against it!I like your advice. Not a matter of right and wrong, just opinions, and in this case more about fitting a budget. If I was not such a wussie about traveling to places with minimal legal systems I would say we had both just better get on a plane with our GPZs and head for Africa!
Same goes for new guinea, I was offered a job to manage and desighn the plant in a large dredging operation over there, lucky I didn't go as 9 out of the 11 in the crew got brutily killed when the Rascal's robbed them.
The three places I will go to oneday are Mongolia, Alaska/Canada and Greenland
I love remote area's and the struggles and danger's assosiated with them, and of corse the gold!
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Africa is not Australia and the vast majority of it is nowhere near as mineralized as Australia. Chris Ralph has made two trips to Africa and observed thousands of prospectors in the field using detectors. Almost none of them were Minelab PI detectors. Nearly all were VLF detectors, which run very well in most conditions there. There were many types in evidence but two extremely popular and well proven machines for the African gold fields have been the Teknetics T2 and Fisher Gold Bug Pro.
Any good VLF would work. I agree with Featheredfishead (Adam), get two of the same to share coils and other parts and learn one unit. The simple choice is the Gold Bug Pro, as there are many already in Africa. Parts should be common by comparison to most detectors. It will also make it easy to sell the machines and upgrade to a PI if your budget allows and if the need arises. Africa is a huge continent and there is no doubt many areas exist where a PI is the best choice.
No worries Steve
I have not been to Africa but one of my friends went to Sudan a few years ago and he tells me that it is generally med\high mineralization there.
That is what I based my advice off.
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Gold Hound:
Thanks, I will get a submersible pump from here. They are quite affordable.
Don't buy a pump until you measure the diameter and depth to the water table of sample holes and check if they are sleeved.
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The gold bug (i own one) and the fors gold are good as far as VLFs go but they still struggle in med to high mineralized soil that is the most common soil type in Australian and African gold fields.Gold Hound:
5m3/h is small. Our focus is to start small and grow from there. In 2009, I was looking at something big and this actually did not allow me to make any meaningful move because I always see my intended moves then as too meagre for the vision that I have on the project. In Dec 2014, I decided to start small and then grow big from that. After that decision, I have seen myself take very meaningful steps which led to my procuring the things that I will need in bits.
Yes, the soil analysis that I carried out on the site indicated that it is highly mineralized. What I read on both Gold bug pro and Nokta Fors gold say they are good on mineralized soil. That's why I decided on having them. Do you mean they may not be able to handle mineralized soil? Please expantiate on this for me.
Thanks for your drilling sampling holes that could be turned into the bore-hole idea. I believe its going to be more practical compared to my initial plan of an artificial dam or pond structure with a taumpoline material. In fact, using the drill sample hole as the bore hole will be most economical for me because I already have a 35,000liter/hour pump which will be useful and the plumbing need won't be that expensive.
They perform well in the USA because their geoligy is younger and they have low mineralization compared to us.
A pi is much better in our soil, the VLFs are un usable in alot of our soil, usually the best gold baring soil!
I would buy 1 used pi over the VLFs any day.
Your pump will likley not be the right pump for a bore, generally you need a submersible pump for a bore as normal pumps like say a centrifugal pump commonly used in mining cannot suck or vacuum water any more than a few meters.
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Hi Paul (Ca)
I use a 4800 and a detech 18in sef coil as one of my go to detectors for treasure hunting when I'm in Europe.
I use the coin/relic or sharp timing in conjunction with ground balance off and depending on what I'm after I'll use the discriminator up to about half way at the most.
The discriminator DOSE NOT work with a mono coil at all.
The 18in sef along with the settings above I dug a bronze sword circa 600bc at 1.5m deep.
Large DD coils are the coil of choice of any experienced treasure hunter using a PI.
As most desirable targets are coin or ring sized or above which the 18 picks up easily at depth.
If you want outright depth and don't care about the discriminator get yourself a nugget finder 20in mono.
The 20in mono still has the sensitivity to find small coins or earings for example but it punches really deep on bigger target's................. And take a long handled shovel you'll need it!
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On a couple of site's I consulted on the larger previous mining company had done some drill sampling, so we used a couple of the sample holes as bore holes as they extended way below the water table and were sleeved.
This idea of mine saved big dollars on drilling costs and they only had the pump and plumbing costs.
So keep your eyes out for them or look at the records of the prevoius company for their locations.
5m3ph is that a hand feed operation as that is very small?
I Was Told Once! Scuff Cover Repair
in Detector Prospector Forum
Posted
I just silicone a piece of 3mm lexan plastic that I cut to shape in stead of the the standard coil cover and it lasts years not one month like the standard coil cover.
Just make sure that you cut it 5mm bigger all the way round to allow for edge wear.