longbow62

So Minelab is not prioritizing their actual dealers first? It's insane Cabelas would get Manticores before specialty metal detector dealers? I don't get it! Especially when those dealers took pre-orders and big box sporting goods sellers don't.

So the video PSPR posted with the guy with the European accent at the beginning. Did anyone notice the red cross hair around the target? Did they just add that in post production? I have not seen the red cross hairs in any other video. I noticed the numbers were red instead with a red line under the numbers. Could there be different software versions on the test machines?  

It appears to me the Manticores that have been delivered so far are a test run, and to claim they met the Christmas deadline. I am of the thinking the Manticore might not totally ready to go at this point. I would not doubt if the Manticore assembly line is sitting ideal waiting for final software tweaks at this point. Either that or Minelab did not even start manufacturing until very recently. Why else would they not be shipping?

56 minutes ago, scoopjohnb said:

Hold your horses, assumptions, misconceptions, misdirections and wrong turns.

Easy does it.

Today I borrowed a Manty and just followed the preset straight out of the box and went detecting for about 4 hours.

It has jaw dropping performance and instead of using a pinpointer. I was waving handfulls of dirt across the coil old skool style. Why,... because the pinpointer couldn’t see the target half of the time. And the other half the find just stuck to the pointer because the soil was muddy.

Then my buddy who is a Minelab official detexpert involved in the Manticore being what it is today. Messed around with the settings, fiddled with tones, pitch, threshold and whatnot.

And I was hearing ground minerals, small Iron nulling the threshold super fast, large Iron coming through, the occasional false and targets coming in loud and clear as if they were calling me out from the crowd with the familiarty of my wife calling my name!!

Tommorow is another day, another hunt and I feel like my whole detecting experience bag has been ripped to bits and I’m puzzling with unknown pieces to make it fit.

 

But DAMN THIS PUPPY HUNTS!!!

Are you the person a few weeks back that made the comment you were selling the D2 after hunting with the Manticore a couple of hours. Your from Belgium so I  guess your hunting relics with iron around? What are your experience's with falsing? Isn't there coke that falses like nails over there too besides the extremely old iron?

1 hour ago, schoolofhardNox said:

I did hit it from both directions (90 degrees) but not incrementally.  It sounded good tone wise most sweeps but not if you pulled back the coil a bit while swinging. In other words there was a sweet spot where it sounded good. Now remember I am trying to find deeper fringe targets, so some of the nails were at least 9" deep.  Only one target sounded good that was about 7" deep and still sounded good when the hole was opened.  By jumpy do you mean, off by 2 or 3 numbers or off by lots of numbers? Almost every target I dug was off by at least 2 or 3 numbers. That's probably just by not swinging exactly the same spot from the previous swing. But even some coins bounced from 62 to 84. I believe although you can't hear the EMI on the machine (runs quieter), you still are exposed to it and the jumpy numbers happened when I was closer to a building on the grounds. I was in all metal with iron audio off, but later at 2. I don't care for the iron audio on, since the ground causes some of those grunts you hear. I was in 5 tone and the numbers matched the tone. The were in the dime range mostly. I think what is happening is falsing of the iron hits on the non ferrous scale. I did not raise the coil, but being that deep I don't think it would have given me any other information on size, etc. Lift the coil and the targets would probably disappear fairly fast. I'll try and dissect an iron target more if I get out once the weather heats up enough to dig. This was first time out trying some settings I thought would give me the best chance for deep silver and possibly for gold.

 

I know I sound like a broken record here, but with the Equinox I hardly dig any iron. That's with a F2-0 Iron bias. I always hunt with the horseshoe on.

On the Equinox in my dirt easy iron targets usually just one way high tone. You turn and the high tone is replaced with iron grunt. Even the good direction is usually jumpy though. It seldom stays within +/- 3 numbers. If I get one ways that have a solid I.D. I'm prone to dig those.

Tough deep iron targets usually have large I.D. swings as you circle. I.D. jumps from a number you expect for silver 28-34 to 35+. If I see 38-39 I call that iron especially if it goes from ultra high I.D. to the teens and below as I completely circle the target hovering/wiggling. I like to stick the shovel blade in the ground a time or two and swing again to see what changed. Many times it will start grunting in at least one direction after you do that.

If the detector is giving me every shovel blacked out and I can lift the coil and I don't lose the target real quick I'm prone to say that's a piece of iron bigger than a coin.

Now if the Manticore is somehow locking on falsing iron with a steady I.D. on the non-ferrous line and you circle without seeing or hearing the telltale iron giveaways that's going to be a big issue. I just can't believe that would be the case.    

It was 0 here last night. Right now 12 degrees wind chill -12 and I live in the south. Or mid-south. This time next week in the low 60's again. I hope to dig some next week Manticore or not.

Almost all the silver I find deep. Extremely rare it's not at least 6". Most of my park silver is border line detectable. So like you I'm mainly looking for the deep high tone whispers. I can't wait to get my Manticore and test it for myself. I do appreciate you guys who have them already posting your experiences. 

19 minutes ago, schoolofhardNox said:

I can't remember his name but isn't he from Detector Comparisons on YouTube? Or something like that. He is a pro and I watch his diving videos a lot. Excellent, truthful videos he has. I just received the Manticore, so my knowledge is limited, but I think the target trace has limits around the 5" range give or take. I dug a couple of nails over 5" deep and they did hit good, but with just a little trace in the top iron section. The problem is the audio is good and the target trace is stronger on the non ferrous and barely there on the top ferrous nail line. This will fool you every time. Mine were either bent or had a ball like glob on one end of the nail, or it was a thicker piece of iron. Some of them sounded good even after you opened the hole. Others not so good but I was trying to make them sound good. Also I think the 99 TID readings are usually the roll over from iron to non iron.In any event, I trust that video over others on You Tube.

So I'm assuming you circled the targets you dug that turned out to be iron? Did they sound good tone wise all the way around? Did the I.D. jump around as you circled them? Did you raise the coil to gauge target size? Were you hunting with the horseshoe button on? Were you just basing the decision to dig on the tone you were getting? I'm beginning to get the impression Manticore users maybe chasing iron unless they see two separate targets on the screen. I guess that's going to depend on just how close they are. Sorry to get into the weeds here. 

Yes I'm aware of the added or updated features of the 900. Some of those seem like fluff, both on the 900 and Manticore. To you they may be very useful.

Someone needs to do a video maybe on EMI improvements of the two detectors to see just how much better it actually is. Test a 800, 900, and the Manticore. I agree my buddy with a D2 has been able to hunt in places the EMI was killing my 800. So much so I wanted to throw my 800 into the traffic.

I'm sure you have vastly more experience relic hunting than I do. I just don't have the sites. How does enhanced I.D. segments help on the 900 in iron? In places where there is a decently high probability for iron skewing the normal I.D. of a target? I dig any two way down to single digits if the tone is right. One ways if the I.D. is really solid when I hover. I bet I don't have 50 hours relic hunting in 5.5 years detecting so again I'm a total amateur on relic sites.   

It's hard to define gain exactly because I'm sure you've probably seen the classic "This is Spinal Tap". The scene about "Our's go to 11". I saw a video where the person said 18 on the Manticore was equivalent to 20 on the 800? It could get rather confusing figuring out just how much more gain these detectors actually have based on just the number scheme.   

Just playing the devils advocate here, but I really wish instead of a D2 the other detector would have an Equinox 800. The guy swinging the Manticore mentions the Etrac and CTX having supposedly pounded this park. I can only assume other detectors too. I can understand the Etrac and CTX missing coins in high trash areas. I witnessed it myself with both detectors swinging over a find in thick modern trash. We all know the D2 has proved itself. I just personally find it hard to believe the Equinox had missed those coins. I'm 100% all in on the Manticore, but had the other detector been an Equinox I think it would have been more telling of the Manticore's enhanced abilities. Did he ever mention the Equinox and I missed it?  

I used to have 2 800's. I sold one recently and the 6" coil with it. I still have my original 800. It has never been in the water, and won't be going in the water. I have the 11", and the Coiltek 10"x5" for it. I have a Legend with the stock and the 6" coil. The only reason I would get a 900 is if the 800 died. It's amazed me the battery on my 4 year old 800 is still kicking, but it seems okay even after 4 years of hard use. I just don't see the point of me buying a 900 when the Manticore is almost here.

The point of the Manticore is more features. New audio, and visual/2d screen features, plus enhanced EMI rejection which is super important to me because I'm around houses and power lines more than I'm in the woods or fields. The oldest parts of where I live currently have the worst EMI. So much so I literally can't hunt some of them.

Unless your a water hunter I just don't see the allure of the 900. Enhanced number of target segments I don't quite get. I'm really good at calling coins with my 800, even silver vs. clad calls. I've compared targets with Etrac's and D2's and the 800's 50 segments never held me back. Plus if your using the 900 mainly for relics do 50 more segments really help you? I'm not saying 100 is a bad thing with the 900. I'm saying I don't see it as major selling point with that detector if you already have a 800. Not with me anyway.    

Great video. That's what I like to see. That's exactly how me and a buddy hunt together. Always swinging over and comparing each other's targets. I will say this though when I'm using the 800 and my buddy using the D2 I am the one calling iron for him. He's probably not as good as the guy swinging the D2 in this video, but my buddy's got 80+ silvers for the year. Most of it with the D2. 

So who with a D2 digs every 07 they run across in an iron infested site when relic hunting? It seems that would not be real productive. If anyone remembers the video Iffy did I think the D2 gave an I.D. of 07 on that test while the Manticore seemed to do better. By better I mean a higher I.D. and showed 3 separate items on the TT. 

I just do what works best for me. So take with a grain of salt. I always ground balance the Equinox no matter how mild the soil. Now of course I do believe the milder the ground the less important it is. If you ground balance in Park1 and you get a single digit number then that's pretty close to 0.

In my mind at least a proper ground balance gives you the best I.D. at depth. A lot of Equinox users used to say back when the detector was new they just kept it on zero. I'm not sure how many still do that. I'm sure 0 might work fine, but maybe not at it's absolute optimum. So especially on deep targets I want it ground balanced. I have on occasion forgotten to ground balance and could tell things didn't seem right. I then do a ground balance and things seem to work much better. Anyway I'll continue to ground balance no matter what the manual says.  

Oh and by the way I have very few places where in Park1 I get single digits or low teens. Most places Park1 is in the 20's to upper 30's. That's a pretty good ways from 0.

A lot of people I bet never touch the settings. On the Equinox the stock programs are really good. On these YouTube test many times a detector that doesn't hit something people (Including me) say you need to adjust this or that. While adjusting something might help in a particular situation will that adjustment be great everywhere? The point I'm getting at is I really think if your going to compare and contrast detectors you should first do it in the untouched stock programs. That's what you need to show people. Actually after that I'm not so sure you should even do this detector against that detector. Maybe you should just concentrate on the ways to get the most out of each individual detector alone. 

The yoke hole is threaded on one side I believe. Drilling another hole higher up would require some kind of nut for the fastening bolt.

  I've used F2-0 ever since that update came out. It was 0 in the original I.B. settings to. I have hunted some 160 year old iron infested sites. I don't live in them though. I don't dig much iron at all, and when I do hunt them I didn't get fooled much. Yeah you got to check more targets, but it does not take long before you get a good grip on what the detector is telling you. As long as I have some clues I'm fine with it. Park2 is my go to in iron. 

PSPR I'm talking professional videos with one guy going over features and functions that knows the detector inside and out.. Not Detectival crap with an audience crowded around asking questions. Phrunt agreed. They are going backwards.

One question that always eats at me is why Minelab does not just put out their own videos about their detectors? Why don't they have a slew of videos and tutorials on YouTube showing every feature and function. Why depend on others to promote your product? I guess it's cheaper that way maybe, but it sure leads to a lot of confusion about the product.

I know it's not in Minelab's best interest to show any weakness in their products, and they probably wouldn't show them. They could still show features and explain features in a professional manner that would beat seeing this non-professional stuff we as customers are stuck with watching to get a overview of the detector. I know a detector is not going to behave the same everywhere, but you got start somewhere. I don't own an XP detector, but think Mr. Blackwell's videos are pretty good. I'd sure like to see something like that vs. what we are stuck with.

2 hours ago, Steve Herschbach said:

Totally agree. Videos done in the rush to be first to YouTube are not being done with an eye to presenting accurate information. The goal is simply to be first so as to capture eyeballs. The detector and operator don’t need to know the device well, and this is a perfect example of that.

It’s just another metal detector folks. That’s it. It’s not going to change your life or magically double your finds. If that is what you care about, find better locations and put in more hours, or both. Those two things are what matters, location and hours. The latest magic wand? Not so much.

I get that's it just another metal detector, but did you or do you consider the Equinox just another metal detector? It may be just another metal detector now. Four years ago it was a leap forward. I think a lot of people myself included were hoping the Manticore will be at least be a step forward. I get the location thing too, but the Equinox legitimately opened up a few hunted out sites for me. Not just a few silvers but a lot out of places I had given up on.

I have not run that many different detectors in heavy iron. I thought falsing was a given. Any time you run with the horseshoe on with the Equinox it's pretty easy to tell when you turn on a suspect target. negative numbers, iron grunts, real jumpy I.D.. It's only an issue if there are no clues. If there are no clues it's an issue. I just kinds doubt that though.

46 minutes ago, PSPR said:

CD just put up his videos on the iron falsing.  The TT is definitely providing some faulty information in heavy iron sites.  Not having a Manicore to test myself, I can't say there isn't a way around this as recovery speed was set one notch higher than NASA-Tom suggested but from what is being shown, there is a problem with the TT in heavy iron.  This needs to be addressed a little more clearly by others with a Manticore.

I'm not going to link to his video given his history I've been made aware of at DP but if you want to see the two videos he posted today just check them out on youtube.

It could be an issue, but he was running all terrain general. To me the Nox 800 had a falsing problem in Park1. Maybe not a problem but was way more prone to false than Park2. Heavy iron you run Park2 which my guess and only a guess is kinda like all terrain low conductors. I suggested he try it.

21 minutes ago, PSPR said:

Tell your dealer you are thinking about cancelling your order because you feel you are way down the list.  That may make him divulge your position on the list.

I'm a little peeved at the dealer I pre-ordered from. I sent a private message asking nicely I'd like to know where I was on the list numerically. I mean surely he has one figured out at this point. I got a message back well you ordered on the first day and I'm not where I look right now. I emailed a couple of days ago and so far got no response back.

Is that not a simple question? Is that to much to ask?  

I've yet to see the D2 hit anything the 800 couldn't in the wild. This is on land in my dirt. No water or beach hunting. That's not a few either, but hundreds of compared targets over about the last 10 months. A couple of places with very mild ground the 800 from what I can tell was deeper. That's 11" vs. 9" so the 800 should be deeper. From what I've noticed at least with the guy I hunt with the most is he definitely digs more falsing iron than I do, and when compared the 800 seems to be better at telling me what is iron. It could be I just know the 800 better than he knows the D2. I have 4 years on the the 800 to his 10 months on the D2. The D2 is definitely better in EMI situations though. I've seen the EMI so bad it shuts me down, but it didn't seem to bother the D2 as bad. At least he could still hunt.

 I put the Legend up for sale, but the price on them has dropped since I posted it so I've had no interested buyers. I'm sure I'll end up keeping and eventually using it more as time goes on. It has the newest firmware version on it. I put the 6" coil on it and hunted some places polluted with 100 year old iron and modern trash. It did okay. I don't dislike it in any way, and I go as far to say it has to be the most bang for the buck out there right now. I just have not been very enthused with learning the Legend for some reason. I guess having a Manticore on pre-order has not helped in that regard.

Another Manticore on auction site with no bids. The starting bid $2,800.00! The first one still sits at $2,616.00 presently.