Glasswalker

Not sure if it's been mentioned in this thread before now, but I recently went through this trying to find a suitable pair of wireless headphones for my Vanquish.

I found one pair of (neckband-earbud style) that were the least expensive "quality" ones with APTX LL capability so the latency wasn't crazy, which actually pair properly with the Vanquish, and show the BT+ (indicating the Low Latency is working).

The least expensive over the ear ones that matched the same capabilities were significantly more expensive (like double the price).

The pair I ended up with were the Sennheiser CX 350BT headphones:

https://www.amazon.com/Sennheiser-CX-350BT-Bluetooth-Headphone/dp/B083W76T8W

These have battery life for approx 10 hours of use. And they support pairing to both the detector and my phone at the same time (so I can use the detector, but still hear calls coming in).

And as said above, they work in true APTX-LL mode, getting the low latency. 

Audio quality seems good, and can detect faint fluty tones from the Vanquish.

(and they had the added advantage of being available locally in NZ)

Hope that's useful to someone.

Cheers!

EDIT:

Also to note, the in-ear buds have the advantage of being super tiny, so they pack up to be small and super portable, AND they can be used with a wide brimmed hat to keep the sun off, which is harder to do with the over the ear kind. (which in NZ is a big deal because the UV here will COOK YOU lol)

Hey @phrunt I just read the welcome post, since you're back now, I thought I'd ping you again on this thread, as your user appears to be all shiny and new 🙂

No rush of course, but if/when you get a chance to read what's been said so far, I'd value your suggestions/input.

Thanks!

And Welcome Back!

Sorry everyone for the delay in responding, had a busy few days. I'll do a big multi-quote and respond to everyone individually below:

On 1/16/2021 at 4:53 PM, Compass said:

I don't have a Vanquish but my Nox is fairly noisy in the wet sand so I usually opt for my pulse detectors at the beach. However, it sounds like you found a fair amount of targets so I think that you are learning how to pick out the good signals through the chatter. Don't forget that the beach conditions are always changing and even if you are doing everything right with the best equipment you may not find much on a particular hunt. 

I think it is great that your wife wants to try metal detecting and definitely worth encouraging for a number of reasons!

Thanks! Yeah I don't think the day/time was perfect, in reading a bit more about beach reading, I realized it's been calm lately so the wave action is mostly depositing sand, so the targets are all probably quite deep. That explains the number of light chirpy targets that were only "partially there" and the ones that were solid all being at max depth on the indicator (and the one I dug for ages to find and couldn't find)

Definitely eager to encourage her to get into it. Always good when you can share a hobby/interest. While she's expressed interest, it's not as strong as mine, so she hasn't felt up to going out the last couple times I wanted to go hunt. And she has less tolerance for "frustrating fiddly things" than I do, so probably best if I have a bit better handle on it before I try and teach her anyway, so I can smooth over some of the bumps. 

On 1/16/2021 at 5:09 PM, kac said:

If the machine is noisy it is the salt causing it to false out. Typically you need to ground balance the machine and work parallel to the shore line and re-ground balance as you get closer to the water. Often you may also need to drop the sensitivity so it doesn't pick up as much of the ground.

VLF's (induction balance) machines have a good advantage when working dry and damp sand because they have superior discrimination so you can dig less trash but they are sensitive to the salt as it too is a conductor.

Pulse induction machines are pretty much immune to the salt but lack discrimination. There are 2 kinds of Pi's ones without ground balance and ones with. Ones without you can only trim out some of the lower signals by changing the pulse delay and the machines have that as well as the ability to balance on a target range forcing targets below the balance to sound different than ones above based on conductivity.

With all that being said I would try dropping sensitivity a bit and maybe even discriminate out the lower end at iron to quiet it down some. I don't think you have a ground balance control on that machine so working parallel to the shore line it should settle down on it's own.

Hey, thanks for the feedback and suggestions! Yeah I'm pretty set on VLF for now, I may get a PI as a second detector at some point, but for now, discrimination is important to me I think. Multi-frequency seems to at least "help" with the difficult conditions, but not deal with it entirely, that's why I went with the Vanquish (hearing good things about salt beach performance of the Multi-IQ machines from Minelab, and couldn't really justify the jump straight to a Nox...)

Also in the mode I was in it discriminates out iron, but kept in mid-tones (gold/foil/etc). And as I said I'd go back over and re-check some targets (once I figured out there was something odd going on) with all-metal mode enabled which would then highlight if it was just iron impersonating a good target. 🙂

Yeah I think next time I'll definitely bring some example targets, bury them at various depths, and experiment with sensitivity. As long as I can find stuff at a reasonable depth, and get a strong signal, I can dial the sensitivity down a bunch, I suspect I'll be able to dial it down a couple more notches and still safely detect targets, but I was hesitant to do that on the previous visit because I was worried about missing valid targets (but I hadn't thought of bringing sample targets to the beach to bury and test) 🙂

On 1/16/2021 at 5:46 PM, Chase Goldman said:

Unfortunately, Vanquish has a fixed GB.  One of the main reasons I parted with it.  Made it impossible to use with no disc if there was anything other than neutral soil conditions and I presume it would have trouble in variable salt such as in ocean surf.

Your recommendations to dial down sensitivity and dial in some disc while working parallel to the shore is good advice for the OP.

Hey, thanks for the additional info. Yeah I wasn't sure if it was "fixed" or "automatic". It's unfortunate if it's "Fixed" as that's a bit less flexible, but it can be worked around. I know I've seen plenty of reviews/youtube videos of people successfully using the Vanquish on saltwater beaches, so it's certainly possible to work around the fixed balance, but just trying to see what levers we do have control over, and where I need to put them to optimize the experience (and then how much needs to be made up for with skill/brain power lol).

Yeah definitely think I'll try and find the "MVS" (Minimum Viable Sensitivity) for the beach, and that is perhaps variable depending on the beach, and where I'm at on the beach, but once I can get comfortable with determining quickly the minimum sensitivity, I think that's going to be pretty key.

Thanks!

On 1/16/2021 at 11:33 PM, palzynski said:

Hi ,

Concerning the balance, the Vanquish is front heavy with the V12 coil ( the V12 coil weights 440grams without coil cover ) .  I found a solution to this issue using the V10 which is an excellent coil , much lighter ( 360grams ) and almost as deep as the V12. Also I never use coil covers , this saves 60grams  this can help a little also ...  Front carbon shafts would also improve the balance 

Concerning the noisy audio, perhaps you could try your 540 inland in mild soil . Normally it should be quiet except on trashy sites,  if it is not the case may be there could be pb with the machine .. This would help to diag your pb anyway ... 

Hope that helps ... HH ...

Hey Palzynski, thanks, yeah I remember some of our prior discussions about adjusting balance, and I certainly see how pulling the balance back may help. Trying to focus on basic technique first though, and get that settled, then optimize from there (by doing things like possibly pulling weight back towards the elbow through one or more techniques as discussed in some other threads).

I did definitely test it inland, as I mentioned in my OP, that's why I was so surprised at how noisy it was on the beach. Inland, it was dead silent, and it found targets easily, and they were 100% clear when it was a target. There weren't so many "phantoms" floating around that I'm seeing on the beach. Definitely 2 very different experiences. Inland 2-3 notches below max sensitivity and I could swing 10-12 times with it entirely silent, then I'd hit a very clear loud tone, which had an ID. There seemed to be nothing in-between. But on the beach each swing almost had at least a tiny chirp or blip which came and went, and weren't consistant (I could swing over the exact same arc 10 times, and I'd get a blip on 5-6 of the swings but in totally different places). Sometimes I'd find a chirp which was in the same place, but it would not be consistant (if I swing over that exact space 10 times, it would chirp in that spot 4-8 times, but at varying intensities, and possibly with or without an ID etc... So the ratio of "noise" to "clear targets" was very high unfortunately.

Anyway I don't think there is anything wrong with the detector, I'm more just struggling past my inexperience trying to understand:

1. What is the detector telling me, and what does it actually mean
2. What dials should I be adjusting in which circumstances, etc... 

Just learning to use the machine better 🙂

On 1/17/2021 at 6:37 AM, kac said:

440grams isn't bad. If it puts too much presure on your elbow just shorten the shaft up a bit so it runs closer to your feet.

Yeah, that's some of the early feedback I got, is my technique appears to be not right (I'm definitely swinging way out in front, and should be swinging closer in for a more natural balance).

Also I opted not to use the strap on the arm brace... I have popeye arms (very large forearms) and the strap barely fits around, but it also makes it rather difficult to put the detector down etc... But after digging around for info on technique/ergonomics, it looks like using the strap to secure to the upper forearm is actually pretty critical to reducing arm strain (from gripping too tightly etc). So I'm working now on making a longer strap, which can easily be adjusted to be more comfortable, and easily opened/closed, and see if that helps 🙂

On 1/17/2021 at 7:55 AM, Joe D. said:

Glass,

   Very basic questions,  given your background, but I'll ask anyway!

   Is your cellphone opposite your detector on your body, or off, to prevent interference? And, if wearing shoes, are there any metal bits in them? Also, if using a coil cover, do you clean it out between hunts? 

   All minor points, but worth ruling out! Your issues sound like what my AT Pro used to do, when i tried using it at the beach! I could still find targets, but it was mentally exhausting to listening to all the extra sounds!

    The Equinox is my main beach detector now, but i did just pick up a Vanquish 540 from Steve, and have been dying to try it out! So all your testing and issues are actually helping me a great deal! (among others here)!

   I'm also hoping the coil tabs hold up better than the Nox's! I'm about to send in my third broken coil to ML for replacement!

   Good Luck solving your issues!👍👍

 

The Cellphone was in a breast pocket for the first bit, then upon digging the giant hole, I nearly dropped the phone into the hole (which by then was filling with water) lol... Phone is waterproof, but decided to move it to a leg pocket after that, it was on the opposite side as the detector. That said I had the phone on and nearby in similar positions when detecting in my "test garden" and didn't experience any noise then, but entirely possible this time when it did it's noise cancel it landed on different frequencies, etc...

Yeah that's a good way to put it, "Mentally Exhausting"... While I was able to successfully identify and recover targets, the amount of mental effort to do a couple hours on the beach was a bit intense. Ideally I want to maximize the amount of "information filtering" that's done by the machine, to reduce that "mental load" 🙂

Glad to hear my adventures are useful for others learning the same detector. One of the reasons I try to do this type of learning as a "group exercise" and do it publicly, everyone can potentially benefit from the mistakes made, and lessons learned (hopefully).

Again I want to thank everyone for the feedback/input so-far. Really appreciate it, and please keep it coming if there are more comments/suggestions, they are always welcome!

I'll post another update to this thread, once I've done another round of beach hunting, "real life" has gotten in the way of hunting last several days, but hopefully I can get out and test some of these suggestions and lessons learned at the beach, and report back on progress 🙂

14 hours ago, phrunt said:

I will reply in about 6 days when I get home, I'm away at the moment and hate typing on my phone, hopefully someone helps in the mean time. If I forget just message me.  Your off to a good start. 

Hey Simon, thanks, no worries not in a huge rush, but will definitely appreciate anything you have to suggest when you're back 🙂

7 hours ago, FloridaSon said:

I don’t have your detector but want to say you are learning and testing in a good way to get your 540 dialed in. Your experiences were very much the same as my first trips on a salt beach. I will say it helped me to bring some items to the beach, it is still an air test but you are checking on your beach soil with your beach EMI around. And for me, running with balanced settings is most important. With mine (NOX) , I noise cancel every time I change any setting including sensitivity(gain) and ground balance often as beach ground changes as you walk. My first beach hunt was in front of a beach club and I thought my machine was busted it was so noisy, turns out it was the club wifi signal. Walking away finally settled it down. 

When you bump shells you might get those blips but that will resolve when your coil technique settles in. The arm pain is a warning to change something. You are on the right track in physically balancing it. Try to get it physically balanced close to the hand grip if you hold it there with one finger. Also for me, whipping the coil back and forth too fast will cause some pain.

Sounds like you are on your way. Phrunt will help tremendously as he has helped me. Others have also helped me here. Great site. Have fun and remember this is a normal part of learning your machine. HH

Thanks FloridaSon for the suggestions and encouragement, good to hear I'm essentially on the "Learning Path" lol. Yeah I'm aware it wouldn't be "easy" on first day out, and would have to learn. If the machine did ALL the work, it wouldn't be any fun (no skill required). 🙂

Yeah I did wonder about EMI, while I have a ton of technology in the house, I've gone to lengths to reduce EMI as it interferes with my Ham Radio activities significantly, so around home, there should have been minimal EMI, and at the beach, while it wasn't busy, there are houses right along the beach, I deliberately chose a section away from the sailing club, and the houses, where there is a small park behind the main dune, so that I had some "open space" around, but who knows, the environment is totally different.

For the Vanquish, it does do noise cancelling, but it does it on power-on (and from what I can tell, no way to re-run it during use), so I'd have to adjust the settings, and then power cycle the detector to re-run the noise detection (which is a good thing to consider, so I may do that for the next bit as I'm tweaking things). It unfortunately doesn't have a ground balance capability (I'm not sure if it's just fixed on a factory setting, or if it tries to auto-adjust). From what I understand the "brains" of a vanquish are very similar to an equinox, but it's "dumbed down" a bit with less options and more automation, and probably a few other cost cutting changes.

Also I hadn't thought of bringing along some items to test on at the beach... if I were thinking I could even make some simple burial packets from plastic and string or something so I could easily recover them, but bury them and test out various settings for detection depth and noise, etc... Doing that I could dial the settings to be quiet, but without being paranoid of missing targets (if I know I can detect a gold ring, and a coin at a reasonable depth, I can have confidence that I'm using the machine right, and it's quiet for a reason).

I agree, it's important to get the machine to a point where the hits are "decisive", or at least to learn how to effectively mentally filter the remaining noise (depending on the environment).

Hopefully will have a chance to head out again this weekend to another couple beaches, will attempt to adjust both my swing technique, and try bringing some sample targets along to do a quick test with in the saltwater beach environment... 

I think a few of these ideas might also help teaching my Wife to use the detector, she's shown some interest in learning to use it as well, she has a condition which is causing her vision to deteriorate, but her hearing is fantastic (far better than mine) so she was amused that hearing is a primary sense used for detecting...

Anyway if she's interested I thought that's something worth encouraging 🙂 (especially since if we're both into a hobby, it's much easier to justify spending money on things lol, though that means she'll also want her own detector and set of gear... Hmm...)

Anyway thanks! 

Any and all additional recommendations and suggestions are greatly appreciated 🙂 Many of you have been doing this a lot more than I have, for a lot longer, and I'm here to learn!

Cheers!

Hey everyone, so I received my shiny new Vanquish 540 at Christmas, and only had a couple chances to get out and do anything with it.

But I got out a couple times, and tried some things, this post is a mix of a bit of a log of my first activities/attempts, and what I experienced, what I think I learned, etc... As well as an ask for any tips/advice/help anyone has to add for my next couple outings (things to try, things to improve, etc)

First time out I went around my yard/lawn/gardens, and just got familiar with the machine, played with settings, got used to the tones, etc...

I found Jewelry Mode worked well initially (tried Coin mode, couldn't discern any real difference, and relic mode didn't seem like what I'd usually be using from the manual description). I started with max sensitivity which was a little chatty... Then turning it down 2-3 notches seemed to silence the machine completely, and it had no falses, but still clearly identified targets... Seemed pretty good 🙂 even found a couple coins along my driveway from long before I lived here (though modern spendies).

Anyway, then next up I got a whole bunch of household objects:

• Modern coins of every denomination
• Some jewelry (10K gold rings, 18K gold rings, 10K gold brooch, 10K gold necklace, silver necklace, silver brooch, pewter bracelet)
• Assorted screws, bolts, etc
• Some brass hardware
• Misc Junk, aluminium etc

And proceeded to setup a test spot that there was nothing in the ground, laid a board out, and swung past the items, getting to know the IDs for each, how I detect them, differences with different orientations, etc... Also tried each of the junk items, and even tried masking (pairing up junk with good items) to see what that did... Overall this process took a couple hours of playing with the detector, and I thought I had a good handle on it...

So then I went to my first beach, saltwater beach, no black sand, fairly popular beach, went when it was quiet, about mid-tide. Powered up, let it do it's noise cancelling, and immediately it started chattering (still on max sensitivity) so turned it down 2-3 like I did at home, still chattery, so turned it down to 4-5 notches below max... Seemed quiet then... So then I started walking along the waterline about 1m away from where the top of the waves lapped at the sand (so sand was still "damp" but not "wet", just on the "water side" of the totally dry sand). And went along the water line at a slow pace, doing my best (and likely failing) to get a good swing technique (more on that later lol).

What I found was that it was very noisy, it was picking up little beeps and bloops (sometimes with no target id, sometimes with) and if I went back and swung around that spot to see what the beep was, it wouldn't be there, so inconsistent... Then I did find a target that was consistent, and pinpointed it, dug it up, and it was a pull-tab, ok no problem that was expected to dig a bunch of those up, and at least I was able to identify a target and recover it successfully...

Still had a lot of noise though, and tricky to decide what to dig and what not to. I was also noticing almost all the targets I got an ID for (including the inconsistent ones, and consistent ones) were at the max depth readout... 

Dug 3-4 more targets, ended up with a few pull-tabs, some can slaw, and a great big iron bolt rusted really badly, which for some reason was coming up as a high 20s on the target ID...

Had another target that was a consistent 33-35 on the target and very strong, and stable, but showing max depth... And I dug down probably 18" deep (and eventually a hole like 2 feet diameter lol). Kept re-checking still had same consistent signal... But was hitting hard-packed sand, and my digging tools weren't up to going deeper... So never recovered that one...

Once I went a couple hundred meters I turned around and went the other direction, as the tide had come in a bit by then... And when I turned I switched from Jewelry to Coin mode, and tried Coin mode on the return trip... Still had that noisy behavior, like I was picking up 1-2 beeps or bloops on every swing, but mostly tiny beeps (medium to high pitch, not iron tone) usually with no ID code. I did figure out around this time that the unstable hits I was getting at 14-15 id which seemed consistent enough to warrant double-checking, but weren't stable, if I turned on all metal mode, I immediately noticed a consistent iron tone, so thought those might be junk pretending to be something else... 

So in total I spent about 2 hours on the beach, found some trash, cleaned the beach up a bit, and had some fun. But clearly need to do some more learning to get better with the machine.

Another thing I learned is I suspect my form is off (ergonomics, swing technique, whatever). I was able to get a decent swing arc about 60-90 degree arc in front of me, and I think did an "ok" job of keeping the coil at a consistent flat height, but probably lifted it a bit at the end of the swing (did my best not to). Also beach was a bit rocky/shelly, mostly clean sand, but had "debris" and occasionally bumped some of that, or scuffed off a rock, etc... Again tried not to do that either lol... But the biggest thing that seemed to indicate I was doing something wrong is I was getting a fair bit of fatigue, which became pain, in my hand/wrist and running up my forearm. I suspected initially I was gripping the handgrip too tightly, tried to loosen off that, but while the detector seems super light and simple to swing at first, after a couple hours it quickly began to wear on me (and I'm a big guy, with a fair bit of upper body strength). After coming back and reading, I suspect my first mistake was over-reaching with the coil. I had it about 20+ inches in front of my feet when swinging, didn't realize I should have it much closer... Also as I said I was over-gripping the hand-grip. So I'll try adjusting some of that next time. But any other tips there would be appreciated.

Secondly, I was troubled by how "noisy" it was, and combined with all the targets I was seeing being at "max depth" indicator, was worried, that turning down sensitivity further might mean I'm missing things... I didn't seem to notice a main difference between the coin and jewelry mode, but probably don't have enough time on the machine to tell the subtle differences yet...

So, first off does anyone with experience think one mode is preferable over another for general beach hunting on the Vanquish 540?

Second, how should I be tuning the detector to optimize my experience? Should I be turning the sensitivity down further? Am I missing targets? (am I mis-reading the depth indicator) etc... 🙂

I didn't really experiment much with the Iron Bias setting (low vs the default of high), and I didn't play with Iron Volume at all.

Anyway, any advice or input/suggestions at all would be appreciated. I'm excited to get out and get more practice in, and learn some more, but always good to take what I've learned, and combine it with sound advice from those with the battle scars to know what they are talking about 😉

I know @phrunt has already given me a ton of good advice on the local NZ id codes to look for with commonly found coin types, etc... And those matched up perfectly with what I found in my little "test garden" experiment at home... And so Simon if you have any specific advice being as you've detected in some of the similar environments I'm in, and with the same detector, any additional "nuggets" that you're willing to share would be greatly appreciated (of the information kind I mean of course, though the other kind would be appreciated also lol)

Thanks! And happy hunting!

Ultimately I think Lithium Batteries in a device are nothing to be concerned about, they are a good power source, with good properties... They just need to be handled "correctly" (usually in the case of a "built-in" battery, this means handled by the manufacturer of the device correctly, with some exceptions outlined below). So I think nothing to worry about with detectors using lithium batteries, I even think it's a good idea 🙂

Now to dive into the details of why I say that:

As I think has already been mentioned the major reasons a Lithium based battery becomes dangerous are:

1. Electrical Short
2. Over-Current (drawing too much current from the battery at once, sometimes caused by #1)
3. Incorrect Charging Process
4. Physical Damage (resulting in #1)
5. Physical Damage, resulting in distortion of internal geometry without shorting out, but this can cause small areas of the battery to become "bottlenecks" and alter the resistance, charging characteristics, etc... End result is that within that small area over-current, or incorrect charging can happen even if the battery as a whole is treated correctly following the damage.
6. Too much heat (caused by one of the above directly)
7. Too much heat (in extreme environments)
8. Too much heat (combination of a hot environment with a factor above, both to a lesser degree, but in combination, enough to be a problem)

All of the electrical (short, overcurrent, charging, etc) can be managed by an internal lithium battery controller, sometimes called a BMS, or Battery Protection circuit. These are either built into the battery packs, or built into any device using a bare lithium cell. Provided this was done correctly, many of the above issues can be mitigated. In the case of all our commercial metal detectors, this will have been done correctly in order to get industry certification

In super-high performance scenarios, sometimes even with a BMS, you can see for example consistant high current draw, close to the line, which ultimately results in overheating, etc... But in the case of a metal detector, the current draw is very low, so no real "stress" being put on the battery. (RC vehicles are commonly known for this, because you want the lightest possible battery that gives you the most power, and you go all out for like 10-15 minutes killing the battery entirely in that time. This is usually compounded by the fact that RC batteries are usually bare cells, and there are minimal or no battery protection circuits in the RC vehicles, which is why you read of so many RC batteries exploding).

Finally, the physical damage scenarios, again our metal detectors aren't usually exposed to any situation at high risk of damaging the battery.

The only scenario I can think of that a Lithium battery in a metal detector might be at risk of becoming dangerous is:

1. Charging while in a car, sitting in the hot sun... Generally this still shouldn't be a problem as the charge rate isn't extreme usually, but at least this is possibly a way to get a "perfect storm" of conditions that causes too much internal heat in the battery cells
2. Detector who's chassis is either not waterproof, or compromised dropped into salt water. Causing an internal short.

So I'd advise don't ever do #1, and chances are #2 will result in destroying the detector as well, so send it off for warranty service. If you have a detector you suspect has suffered a short internally due to water infiltration, don't use it until you get confirmation the battery isn't compromised.

It should also be noted that most lithium battery failures aren't as spectacular as the youtube videos and news stories. Many just fizzle, and smoke a lot, or have a small burst of flames. The batteries usually scorch, and puff up. But don't explode dangerously. In cell phones it's a tight space, sealed, and if those go while in a pocket, that might cause a burn for example (the whole samsung battery fiasco), but ultimately in a detector I think risk is minimal.

Additionally, one word of caution: Lithium batteries tend to "Puff" or swell up when they are on the verge of failure. If you ever see a lithium battery in this state, DO NOT use it. Dispose of it. (or in the case of a detector suffering this, have the battery replaced, or seek support from a service center). Not that you'd usually know as the battery is sealed away internally, but depending on the chassis design, it can be noticeable because it can cause the chassis of the device to swell to accommodate the increased battery size.

Finally, some advice on proper "care/maintenance" of lithium batteries:

Lithium batteries degrade due to a number of factors:

• Exposure to high temperature
• High Charging Current (usually, the higher, the more degredation)
• High Discharge Current (again, usually, the higher, the more degredation)
• Naturally decay over time when holding a charge (higher decay, the higher the percentage of charge)

Lastly, Lithium batteries can fail completely if they fall below a critical charge level (essentially they fall below 0%)

Lithium batteries have a very good power retention capability, they don't "leak" power as fast as other battery types (such as NiMH) but they do still leak power. Sometimes this is sped up slightly by the protection circuitry or "power standby" circuitry in the device. This usually means a percentage or two drop per week/month depending on the specific battery chemistry.

Lithium batteries are designed to have a certain number of recharge cycles before their capacity drops significantly. This is usually a median in a bell curve. Meaning that if very carefully taken care of, you can get more cycles. And if they are treated poorly, they may get much less.

What can we learn from all of the above? 

In order to keep our batteries healthy we should:

• Not expose them to high temperatures
• Charge them at a median rate (in this case not usually in your control, up to the design of the charging circuit)
• Not discharge them too fast (again up to the devices power draw, but in the case of a detector, this just means avoid shorting it out)
• Don't leave it sitting at 100% charge for weeks/months on end
  • This means if you're going to store the detector for some period of time (weeks/months), then run the battery down to about 50% and store it like that, then charge it up before you want to use it
  • OR just don't top it up to 100% every time you use it
  • if your lithium battery gets 20h of usage from a full charge, then waiting until you've drained it down to 25% and then charging it back up, means your minimizing the amount of time it's "hanging around" at 100%.
  • Big mistake people make with lithium battery powered devices is constantly running them down to 80%-90% then topping them up to 100% all the time, so it always floats near 100%, this will cause the battery to have an abnormally low battery life (why do you think so many cell phones have batteries that won't hold a charge after 1-2 years)
• Don't leave it sitting at empty for weeks/months on end
  • Again if you're going to store it for some time, just make sure it's topped up at least to 25% (or 50% if you're going to leave it for a LONG time like 6-12 months).

Anyway, that's enough of my ramblings. Hope it helped 🙂

35 minutes ago, PimentoUK said:

Built like a brick shithouse is a quaint British expression. It refers to the days when the lavatory was not indoors, but a seperate building at the end of your garden. They were often crude wooden constructions, but better quality ones were made of bricks. A brick shithouse.

And being 2m tall may have implications on your detector fit. You may want a longer shaft ... but don't forget the limited length of cable that's standard on the coil. Another reason for an extension-cable, even if it is only 4 inches long.

Thanks Pimento, Yeah always interesting to understand the beginnings of the colloquialisms we use. I figured the general meaning, but didn't realize it was British origin. Unfortunately when I was younger it probably had a more appropriate meaning (when I was fit, etc, used to play sports, and do a lot of Olympic type lifting, etc...). These days it's probably more like a "loosely piled clay shithouse" lol... (I'm way out of shape these days) 🙂 Though I am resuming my lifting currently, so hopefully I can get into better shape over the coming months lol.

As for height, I had wondered if that would be an issue, but will have to see once I get using it. And as you said, extensions, etc can address that pretty easily if it's needed. (to be exact, I'm about 195cm tall, not quite 2M, but still quite tall)

Anyway, thanks everyone for the responses on this thread, so far tons of great feedback.

I'm aware I'm kind of grasping in the dark, since I haven't actually handled the detector myself yet (WHY did I agree to this whole "not opening gifts until Christmas" thing?!?!?) lol...

But it's great to hear what everyone else using the detector thinks, and start to get a feel for what kind of customizations/improvements/mods might be fun to work on, and "well-received" by the community 🙂

4 minutes ago, phrunt said:

I think wait until you get it in your hands before deciding it's too heavy as you may find quite the opposite, you don't look like a small guy 🙂

Of course, I won't make any final choices until I've got my hands on it. But it's always good to canvas the community and see what others think too. If I were to make a set of upgrade parts, is good to know what there is general demand for. Then when I get my hands on it, any/all of those items that I feel are useful to me as well, I can then design and make available to others. 🙂

And yeah, I have had words like "Sasquach" or "Giant" used to refer to me in the past lol... Based on geneology there is a fair bit of Viking blood in me... (I'm roughly 2M tall, and "built like a brick shithouse" I think is the term my father used to say lol... hopefully that doesn't violate forum rules...)

9 hours ago, Frank M said:

The balance is also very important.

The vanquish 540 is top heavy with the V12 coil

No balance

attach 100g to the back of the armrest for testing and then walk with it, you will notice that it is more comfortable.

100g heavier but more comfortable 🙂

Interesting... So my idea of having a way to pull the battery pack back to the elbow (attached under the armrest for example) may actually be helpful... Will have to wait until I've been out swinging it and play around with the balance etc... A re-designed control box which is at least "water resistant" for quick drops in the surf etc (not going to go diving with it lol). And a built-in smaller rechargable battery pack that holds up about as well as the AA cells, swap to carbon fiber tubes, and then add an optional elbow mounted holder for an additional USB battery pack that can power/charge the internal cell, might be a cool "Turbo Upgrade Kit" for the 540 (especially with the V12). Keep the weight roughly under control, better balance, waterproof, and improved battery performance/options... 

9 hours ago, Frank M said:

But if you really want to save weight, you can build or buy carbon.

buy example:

CMD Vanquish Straight Shaft Carbon Fibre Conversion Kit

Comes from UK

But top heavy again with V12 😉

 

That's a cool suggestion, I hadn't thought about replacing the tubes with carbon. What is the opinion in general on straight tube vs the "S" configuration the vanquish uses by default? Is one clearly "better" than the other in some way? Or is it purely subjective?

8 hours ago, palzynski said:

Thanks for the UK conversion kit info, Great idea , would like to get one before the brexit  🙂...

Btw I mostly use a V10 coil on my 540 . I only use the V12 in specific cases , for example when finishing an area to go at max depth ( I noticed  that the V12 goes  3 or 4cm deeper than the V10 on big coins on my bed tests ).

The V12 is too heavy for me to be used during long outings . Attaching 100g at the back yes I will try this and let you know ....

For me the V10 is by far far the best coil of the Vanquish coil set , it is powerful and light . I dont understand why ML does not sell the 540 with a V10 as stock coil , like it is the case for the 340 and 440 ...

 

So if the overall machine was reasonable weight, and had balance improved, would you say the V12 is superior overall, the only reason you say the V10 is better is because it's nearly as good as V12 but lighter?

2 hours ago, phrunt said:

I have very little faith in 3D printed parts but perhaps its just the type of plastic the parts I've tried have been made with.  I know very little about 3D printing except stuff made using it is generally weak based off what I've experienced.

Can't comment to this specific parts durability, but I can say from many years of experience with 3D Printing that like any other manufacturing technique parts can be both well made, or poorly made.

3D Printing has specific design considerations that are often not taken into consideration due to the hype, and ease of access of the technology these days. As a result I agree it is common you find weak or brittle parts.

The first consideration, is the printer itself. FDM (Fused Deposition Modelling, sometimes also called FFF or Fused Filament Fabrication) is the most common as it's cheap and easily accessible in a hobbyist grade machine. But it has very different properties than for example SLA (Stereolithography) or SLS (Selective Laser Sintering).

With an FDM print, the parts are weak along the laminated layer interface. Essentially the print has a "grain" much like wood. If you design the part where mechanical strength is required against that grain, the part will be weak (much like if you turned long thin wooden shaft against a wood grain, it would be extremely prone to breaking, but if the length of the staff goes with the grain, it can be extremely strong). So design of the part to take advantage of the medium is crucial

Finally, choice of material is important. Different plastics (even with an FDM machine there is a wide variety) have VERY different properties. While PLA (one of the most commonly used materials by hobbyists) is cheap and easily accessible, and is the easiest to print with, it has very particular properties including:

1. It is very "Hard", which also means very Brittle
2. It has a very high tensile strength, but poor elasticity, again brittle, and unable to handle shock
3. It has almost no UV resistance (breaks down quickly under UV exposure)
4. It is Hygroscopic, meaning it will absorb moisture from the atmosphere, when it becomes "wet" it becomes even MORE brittle

But printing with a more suitable engineering type plastic, including ABS or PETG will give a much tougher part, which has some give/bend, and can take some impact. Or for example, you could even print in Polycarbonate if your printer can handle it (I print mechanical parts in Polycarb when it's appropriate, as it's the strongest/toughest material I can reliably print on my printer, but it's also difficult to print with, and more expensive).

Printed parts can be very practical, and mechanically strong in useful real-world scenarios, but unfortunately that is usually the result of good design, from good experience, with quality materials on a good machine.

From what I can tell in the photos, the "grain" in this part appears to run the right way, so it would depend what it was made with, how much abuse it could take 🙂

22 hours ago, PimentoUK said:

Regarding the Lithium-Iron cells: I don't see why they can't be intentionally undercharged, for example limiting the final voltage to 3.2V per cell ( a safe 6.4V for the pack ). This would require a balancing charger, with all 3 connections used, you wouldn't be able to rely on a balancing board and plain series charging.
I've never seen any data about capacity loss / gain of Li cells when using different terminal voltages. It's often stated that battery life ( number of cycles etc) increases if you undercharge them, eg stop at 4.1V instead of 4.2V for regular Li cells, but no details about how much/what benefit etc are quoted.
I see there are 'high voltage' Li cells around now, that have a max charge voltage of 4.3V or 4.4V. They appear to store more energy as a result, the R/C model industry brand them as 'Graphene' Lithium, or Li-HV.

Yeah that's a good point, most BMS/Balancing boards will handle this already, just need to get one with adjustable overcharge voltage threshold, and set it as low as possible. 

Also yeah the "Graphene" and LiHV etc cells, are basically just cells with a chemstry or construction which significantly reduces the internal resistances, allowing higher voltage, and higher capacities (the ways in which this is achieved varies from manufacturer to manufacturer, and the marketing terms used are usually just "fluff"). But either way the benefit to them is real, though not sure if they are useful in our case, because we're actually in that middle spot where we need lower voltage per cell, not higher (unless someone is making a 5V-6V nominal lithium cell, but I haven't heard of anything even remotely near that yet)

7 hours ago, Frank M said:

Hello

My suggestion would be a waterproof box (see link Garrett Ace)

And illuminated buttons.

waterproof

This is a cool concept, and a good way to tackle waterproofing. Build an external box (same thing they used to do for cameras for example for underwater use, until the actual waterproof action cams became popular).

Only problem there is 3D printing isn't so good at making actual water tight things (that I would trust in salt-water with expensive electronics inside lol). I've got my printer tuned to do this well enough, but that's not true of most peoples setups, so if I published a design I would be at risk of someone printing it in a non-waterproof way, and blaming me for it 😉

But using a printer to prototype a design which you ultimately make through casting or injection molding would be interesting. (I suspect that's how those others are made via polycarbonate)

Only problem with this approach is added weight, but in trade-off for water proofing, that might be worth it.

Though taking the "redesign the housing entirely" approach to make a lighter housing, we might be able to make one that is only slightly lighter, or even a tiny bit heavier, and is nice and compact, but still retains waterproofing... Not hard to make something that is sealed for the existing PCB/Display. Just needs to be manufactured in a way that is fully waterproof (ie: uses sealed connectors, and covers the display with a membrane, and uses membrane sealed pushbuttons. As well as has appropriate gasketing in the assembly of the chassis itself, and any through-holes (screws) are run outside the gasketed sealed compartment.

If done with an internal lipo cell, it could be made sealed and reasonably compact.

1 hour ago, Frank M said:

Thanks for the hint nickeldNdimed 👍

Yes there is a Case but still experimental and not to buy

but it is a start 🙂 Let's see what happens in the next time.

That's cool, interesting to see someone else working on that already! 

Seems a bit odd how they've mounted the cables though (looks from that image to be coming out the sides of the control box?)

9 hours ago, palzynski said:

btw I know a little about electronics and I have a question , is it easy to convert a li ion 3.7V output into a 5 or 6V voltage output ?  Does the  electronics converter consume a lot of power for doing this ?  thanks ...

There are a number of ways to either "step-up" or "step-down" voltage, and regulate it. The common inexpensive modules available are switch mode regulators (in either step-up or step-down configurations). So yeah you either have a single lithium ion or lithium polymer cell at 3.7V and step it up, or you put a pair of them to make 7.4V and step it down.

Switch mode regulators are usually (if designed well) pretty efficient, about 90% approx. meaning 10% of energy used is burned off in the regulator components themselves, or as waste heat. 

The main problem with switch mode regulators is that they are noisy. Creating a lot of RFI. But that can be filtered with additional components (caps/chokes for example).

That said, if you're building a custom unit with a cell built in for light weight, I'd go with a Lithium Iron Phosphate cell, which is nominal 3.2V (about 3.6V peak at maximum charge, but only for a very small amount of the charge curve), they have a very flat voltage curve around the nominal voltage. These would output very close to the 6V (if you use a 2S pack) needed for the control box circuit, meaning the internal regulators are fairly likely to handle it just fine without issues, and no additional regulator needed. This would also require adding a BMS/Battery Protection/Charge circuit to handle charging of the cells, and protection from short, or drawing them below the minimum drain voltage, etc... (your Lithium rechargable AA cells include a small BMS inside the cell to allow recharging etc)

LiFePO cells also have slightly better energy density, and are safer and more stable than standard Lithium Ion or Lithium Polymer batteries.

Now to get a discharge in Wh close to what normal AA Alkalines give, you'd want 15Wh of energy capacity. To do that with LiFePO cells you'd need a 2S1P pack with 2.3Ah capacity. A 2.1Ah capacity pack that's easily available is only slightly under this, but weighs about 100g on it's own. Though it would likely have a fair bit longer runtime than the AA Alkaline cells, merely because of the better discharge curve, so maybe going smaller to 1.6Ah but that's still 80-90g. And you still need to build the actual housing/chassis. 

Now IF experimentation shows the unit can take 7.4V directly without any issue (which I hesitate to jump to that conclusion). Then you could use 2S1P Lithium Polymer packs, and I can find some of those at 1.5Ah and 70g of weight. That would provide 11.1Wh of energy capacity, vs 15Wh with AA Alkaline, but you'd be able to discharge fully most likely, getting longer run time with full voltage. But you'd still probably be looking at 80g-90g for the whole package, including a BMS, and the chassis.

So I think as far as an actual replacement for the normal battery compartment that is rechargeable and light, I think you're better off with the RNB pack (which will be difficult to improve on much), or rechargable lithium AA cells like you've been using. I think the only way to further improve the balance/weight is to rebuild the control box as you've been saying, or to move the battery back to the elbow (which doesn't help with weight, but possibly improves the ergonomics of where the weight is located)

50 minutes ago, palzynski said:

- Concerning the control box redesign , I think that the front part ( the screen display ) can be kept like it is , only the back part ( containing the batteries and loudspeaker ) needs to be redesigned to my opinion ( the part that integrates the li ion battery + loudspeaker ) . I would be ready to sacrify a 340 to test a new lighter cb  ... On the other hand I would never ask to anybody to do that job knowing the amount of work to be done ... For sure you would better spend that time detecting in the field with your Vanquish  ...  🙂

- This cable extension ( PimentoUK s post ) is a great idea , this because when using a cable extension the control box could be mounted at the rear of the machine under the elbow , improving the Vanquish balance. The drawback is that the Vanquish screen could not be seen any more. However I often rely on the audio then I can afford not to see that display.... And it is probably simpler to make a cable extension than redesigning a cb ...

Honestly not a lot of work to redesign the control box, I do that kind of thing all the time. And I think other than the button layout, the control boxes are essentially the same, so I could likely do one design to accommodate all 3 models, and leave the front interface panel as a separate piece so that it could be re-designed for the 440 and 540 ultimately in the end.

That said even if you were willing to sacrifice a 340, I think shipping it to me in NZ would be completely unrealistic (expensive). But either way it's an interesting idea.

Sounds like a cable extension and/or quick-connect is a valuable item, and that's probably super easy so I'll definitely look into that.

Cheers!

10 hours ago, palzynski said:

- Concerning the battery pack accessories , there is a thread that willl probably interest you :

 Is Anyone Using An Rnb Lithium Battery For The Vanquish? - Minelab Metal Detectors - DetectorProspector.com

This RNB lithium battery for Vanquish is a great design because a li ion battery is more reliable than multiple AAs . Unfortunately for me, this high capacity pack( 36Wh / 33hours duration)  is heavier than the stock AA system so it does not solve the Vanquish balance issue.

Actually for me 12hours duration is enough , then for sure I would be interested by a RNB pack  or a similar design with an only 12Wh capacity/12hours duration, because this would be lighter than the 4 AAs nimh  

- Concerning the battery pack at the rear near the elbow , frankly speaking I dont like this solution because this means that there will be a cable between the battery at the rear and the control box. Then the rear shaft cannot be taken apart/compacted  any more . And this will be a problem when you want to put the Vanquish in a rucksack for example , where the telescopic shaft is a great feature. And also you still have this heavy control box ( even empty ) , then I am not sure that this will improve the balance a lot . For me the neat solution is to redesign the cb but clearly it is not easy to do ...

Btw now most of the entry level detectors : for example Nokta simplex , Quest X5 , X10 , etc ... now use thin control boxes with integrated li ion batteries . This Vanquish 4 AAs power system is clearly outdated ...

 

 

Hey, yeah I saw the RNB lithium packs, that is another idea, make a smaller version of that.

Mounting the pack by the elbow was more an idea not for a "permanent" pack, but for the option to use USB power bricks... which would have a "holder" near the elbow, but would be easy to add remove. The cord would be loose (not attached) so would have no impact on breaking down the rear shaft. And a short usb cable going from the elbow up to the control box I didn't think would be intrusive during use (but again, just brainstorming)

As for the control box, as I said, it's actually not "hard" to do, it's pretty easy to redesign it. But it's invasive to the machine (no way to install a new control box without disassembling the existing one, and voiding the warranty). I'm open to designing/manufacturing it, but not quite willing to void the warranty on my own vanquish just yet.

4 hours ago, PimentoUK said:

If you're curious about the innards, here's a disassembly by the Russians ( Ukranians?)

https://md-hunter.com/minelab-vanquish-teardown-in-pictures-you-must-see-it

As you're looking for electrical ideas : a cable extension for the search-coil could open up some possibilities. Either with a custom long shaft assembly, which may be useful for water-hunting ; or hip-mount the control box and use it 'normally'.

A quick-disconnect coil cable system could also be handy, such as a short extension cable with a locking-ring-less free-socket on it. For example a normal free socket plugged into the control-box, a short cable, and an inline plug with the threaded section removed/machined down, and the coil's free-socket just pushed in.

I did see that thread, another thing I was quite curious about was tweaking the firmware, and was interested to learn from that teardown (and comparisons to the equinox insides) that it's very likely an STM32 ARM processor on the vanquish (I'm actually very familiar with programming that chip). But again, warranty voiding behavior 😉

Not saying I won't get there eventually (almost certain I will) but usually either:

A) Once I've gotten a new shiny toy to replace the existing one
B) Once I've had it long enough that I'm no longer concerned with the warranty (or warranty expires)
C) Once something requiring a warranty voiding fix bugs me enough to do it anyway...

🙂

Though realistically, it may be simpler to build an entirely from-scratch detector than to reverse engineer the minelab firmware. And since so much of their IP is in the firmware (processing code), they are likely taking some effort to protect it, and wouldn't take kindly to someone mucking about in there, and I don't want to step on toes this early on getting (back) into the hobby lol...

I'm not stuck on doing an electronic fix of some kind. Some nice to have things may be simple mechanical parts/add-ons. Sometimes it's the simple things. So yeah just looking for any ideas from users of the Vanquish.

Cable extensions / quick-connects shouldn't be too hard to do at all. I will have to look at that once I get my hands on it, to see if it's using a readily available connector of some kind.

7 minutes ago, PimentoUK said:

All modern detectors are internally regulated, and the Vanquish will have several switch-mode converters in it. So 5V or 6V will make no difference, though I presume current draw will increase as battery voltage drops.
Another simple option is a 5-cell NiMH and a series Si diode, at least it's clean DC, and it won't flatten the battery when the detector is turned off.

As you're new to detecting, you won't know about Geotech1 , where techy types who homebrew equipment, hack commercial gear etc hang out.
https://www.geotech1.com/forums/forum.php

Enjoy, but watch out for the angry East Europeans. And laugh at the Middle-Eastern types, repeatedly[b]"wanting finding golden treasures ten metres dep please"[/b]

 

 

I wish I understood how to work this forum, I can't get the bb-code tags to work this time. Other times there's no 'submit post' button, other times the hyperlinks don't work .....

 

Hey, yeah of course the detector would have internal regulators for the UC and other sensitive components. But that usually doesn't tell the whole story. For example in Radio gear, it's not uncommon for the paths from regulated supply to vary for the control electronics, and the transmission path which runs through a series of amplifiers, sometimes driven directly off PSU rails for example (sometimes regulated, sometimes not). So I didn't want to make any assumptions about the internal architecture of the Vanquish. For example, there would be 3 potentially important dependencies on source voltage:

1. Regulator efficiency for sensitive electronics (possibly additional power loss, or noise)
2. Impacts on user interface and possibly other aspects of program flow (anything controlled by the processor/software) being altered by the detected input voltage:
   1. The obvious and minimal impact one of these is the battery indicator, and low voltage alarm etc.
   2. Less obvious ones might be slight changes to frequencies, or transmission control, or throttling/power-save functions when it detects "low battery" etc.
3. Impact on the actual detector functions if it has an independent (potentially unregulated) transmission amplifier leading to the coils for generating the frequencies and pumping power into the ground to detect at depth.

As I have no idea about the internal architecture I don't know if any of these are a factor, but that's why I implied it may "prefer" 6V over 5V. If in-fact anything in the 5V to 6V range is acceptable, then the input from USB regulated power supply (usually between 5V and 5.2V depending on quality of the device, and current draw) should be sufficient to power it directly (taking into account the switch-mode noise issues you mention). However if it "prefers" 6V over 5V, then I would need to step-up the 5V USB output to 6V AND deal with the noise issues.

I have seen a few posts from Geotech, and yeah their forum seems pretty interesting. I'll probably sign up over there as well, as I think I can learn a lot about construction, design, and theory from them. As I mentioned above I may one day try to DIY a whole detector. But for now looking at baby steps 😉

Thanks!

Hey Joe, thanks! I'll go read through that blog, see what valuable "nuggets" of information I can glean from it! (yes, pun intended!) 😉

5 hours ago, kac said:

I use the lipo AA rechargables for my machines that use AA's. I use Blackube and AmpTorrent but think in general they are the same and yield more than 1 1/2 the run time over alkalines. Because the power output doesn't gradually drop like an alkaline you need to keep an eye on your battery indicator as it will go maybe half way then you have nothing. I usually carrry an extra set or just do a charge before I head out to be sure. Recharge time on them is less than 2 hours.

I had built a pinpoint/stud finder from a kit. Though it worked it was very weak on silver. Cost wise you don't save anything but definately has the fun factor.

Hey kac, yeah I thought about the lithium rechargable AA cells, Those may be a good option too.

Yeah building a pinpointer actually sounds like a fun project, may actually try that!

Actually building my own detector is something I may eventually take a stab at. I think it would be neat to try and make a community based multi frequency detector capable of accepting the common models of third party coils, and using modern digital signal processing techniques similar to the Multi-IQ stuff. It of course wouldn't start out with anywhere near the sophistication of what Minelab are capable of, but if the platform was made right, the community could test/tune and advance it over time to be "competitive". And being open-source would mean the various industry players would be welcome to "borrow" our ideas to improve their products... Might be neat. But not a project for a "beginner" need to get immersed into the hobby first, and do more reading on metal detector theory/design/etc.

4 hours ago, PimentoUK said:

Detectorist and electronics guy here.
Mounting the battery under the elbow-cup is a reasonable idea. But I suggest you get the machine first, then work out what weight changes will give worthwhile results. I think a larger heavier pack would likely be the way to go, such as 4 off 4/3A size NiMH's, or some similar offerings. I would avoid any battery with a regulator in it, as there's the risk that switching noise could affect the detector.
A homebuilt coil cover may be worthwhile if it was a 'solid' one, ie. a flat sheet rather than an open spider that matches the coil. The open coil designs can catch on debris, eg. woodland floor, crop stubble, undergrowth. But I would go for simple and lightweight, such as sheet polypropylene or corrugated fluteboard as the starting point.

Hey PimentoUK, Thanks for the input on placement/balance. Yeah I will definitely get a feel for the detector before building anything, just thinking based on what I've read that a larger capacity lithium rechargeable option that sits near the elbow might be a neat add-on. I figured instead of building a custom pack, making it work with regular USB input would be interesting.

As for RFI from a switch mode regulator, yeah I was thinking depending on if the detector actually "prefers" 6V or 5V I would possibly add a small step-up regulator to 6V, as well as add some nice RFI filtering components (a nice strong choke, and some filtering caps for example).

I build amateur radio gear as well as complex systems, so am quite familiar with filtering RFI from sensitive electronics, as well as the particularly crappy nature of switch mode regulators without effective noise mitigation on them.

1 hour ago, palzynski said:

Hi Glasswalker ,

I also have a Vanquish 540 , since June 2020 ...A very good machine but I find it a little heavy ( 1,2kg with a V10 coil ) compared to my Deus ( 0.75kg ) , soI tried to find ways of lightening it .... 

- First I have replaced the middle and lower shafts with carbon shafts , saving around 100grams.

- Second I use non rechargeable liithium ion 3000mah ( non rechargeable / 15grams each) , instead of the 2500mah Nimh stock batteries ( 28grams each  ) , saving 50grams.

Look at Testing The Vanquish 540 - Page 9 - Minelab Metal Detectors - DetectorProspector.com

 

With these improvements my Vanquish V10 weights 1.06kg ,

Now the only way to save more weight would be to redesign the vanquish control box , using a lithium ion integrated battery instead of AAs, like the thin control box of the Garrett Apex . For info the current "bulky" Vanquish cb weights around 400grams with the 4AAs . A new control box with an integrated li ion battery would probably weight only 200/250 grams . However redesigning the cb means probably dozens(hundreds)  of hours of work , and personaly I would leave that job to the Minelab engineers , perhaps for the next version of the Vanquish ... 🙂

 

Hey Palzynski, thanks, that is good feedback on the weight/balance issues. I find that the lithium non-rechargables are great batteries, but the value just isn't there in them for me except for long running low drain devices (remotes, wireless sensors, etc) where you want them to last forever, and don't want to have to change the cells often. Otherwise you're better off buying more conventional cells (I find at least from what I see here, the lithium cells have somewhere between 150% and 200% of the capacity of cheap alkaline cells, but the cheap alkaline cells cost as little as $0.50 per cell here, even "good" alkalines are $1 per cell, while the lithium disposable cells are $4 per cell... So the value just isn't there (for me anyway) 🙂

Re-designing the control-box is a neat idea... That could theoretically be done pretty easily without re-designing the actual circuit. Just re-make the chassis to be thin/light, and contain an internal flat lithium polymer cell and battery protection/charge circuit. Or even some 18650 cells or something. Overall like you said could likely save a few hundred grams doing it that way. I have the design skills and tools to do such a redesign, but that one would be pretty "invasive surgery" on the vanquish, would definitely result in voiding the warranty... Because would have to completely disassemble the control box, and replace the whole control box/grip assembly with a new printed part. I think I'll have to leave that project for another day when I've upgraded past the vanquish, or once the vanquish is already outside it's warranty. Though it is a neat project that is tempting to undertake 🙂

(If someone wanted to donate a vanquish to me to be modified I'd be happy to modify and return it, with the understood risk that while highly unlikely, it's possible something could happen that causes it not to survive). Otherwise that project will wait until I'm prepared to put mine "under the knife" lol.

5 hours ago, Joe D. said:

Hello Glasswalker,( Explain the name)?

Sorry Joe, just realized I skipped this one. The name comes from a roleplaying game I played as a kid. I adopted it as a handle then, as it seemed appropriate (The glasswalkers were an ancient tribe which adopted modern technology and were outcast for it because it was contrary to the ways of nature followed by the other tribes, while they tried to find a balance between the natural world, and the technological one). At the time I was a nerd, into Science, and Tech, and Computers, etc... And had trouble fitting in. So I thought it was an appropriate moniker to choose for myself, as I also had hobbies that involved outdoors, camping, hiking, fishing, (and metal detecting at the time!). So I balanced the natural world and technological one as well...

I held onto it from a pretty young age, and while I am no longer socially awkward, or have trouble fitting in, the name's stuck for several decades, so now it's permanent 🙂

10 hours ago, Monte said:

Hey everyone, new to the forum, so please go easy on me as I ask my first stupid question of what is likely to be many..  'Welcome' to Steve's Forums, and back into this great sport.

 

I've blown all my "hobby budget" (or technically my wife did buying me a present). Getting the Minelab Vanquish 540 for Christmas to go do some beach hunting this summer... .. The Vanquish 540 is a very good detector.  I've been enjoying this sport for over 55 years now, have a good set of detectors in my outfit, to include a V-540 Pro Pack and a 2nd V-540 is due to be delivered tomorrow.  I'll keep the 5X8 on the one I use the most now and have the 9X12 on the 2nd unit to be at-the-ready for wide-open areas, such as a beach, open grassy park, plowed field, etc.

 

So I am facing 2 options:

1. Just suck it up, and wait. The Vanquish has a pinpoint mode, and that is probably good enough to do my first couple hunts. Then I should be able to afford a decent pinpointer such as:
   • Nokta Pulsedive, which is about $200 NZD locally, shipped.
   • Minelab Profind 35, which is about $265 NZD locally, shipped.
   • Gold Century Pinpointer, which is about $99 NZD locally, shipped. (seems like a bit of an "unknown quantity", not much about this brand)
2. "Cheap Out" and get a random non-known brand, imported one from Amazon, which I can justify now because it's dirt cheap, and then upgrade later on.... I have 3 Pinpointer that serve me well.

My #1 most reliable is my Nokta / Makro Pulse-Dive Pointer.  I use it with my Simplex + because it pairs with the headphones, and I also use it with FORS CoRe, FORS Relic, XLT, Bandido II µMAX and Silver Sabre µMAX and F5.  I have the Garrett 'Carrot' AT w/Z-Lynk that I use with my two Apex devices along with my MS3 headphones. 

The 3rd Pinpointer I have is a White's BullsEye II.  Not the same as my two trusted pinpointers, but it works fine and thy have lasted me better than the China-made knock-offs.  I piked up a brand new in-the-box BullsEye II very reasonably, and I have it on-hand to use as a 'loaner unit' for friends and family.

Monte

Hey Monte, thanks for the welcome, and re-assurance I've made a good choice for the detector! And for the suggestions on pinpointers. I'll look up the BullsEye II as an option!

10 hours ago, relicmeister said:

if eBay is an option with shipping to NZ I suggest looking for a used one from the well known brands. You can usually get one for a good price that way. Stay away from the knock offs and Chinese brands. 

Hey relicmeister, eBay is an option, unfortunately shipping is usually the big issue. Currently shipping to NZ is significantly more expensive than usual out of USA/Canada. Businesses that have arrangements (Amazon) are a bit more reasonable, but even their shipping costs have gone up. Right now on Amazon it's fairly normal for shipping on a $25 item to be $20. On Ebay, that same $25 item will in most cases be $50 in shipping. We have a local alternative to eBay in NZ called TradeMe, but it's a smaller audience, and used metal detecting gear is fairly uncommon (and it's full of chinese importers/resellers of items from Aliexpress).

5 hours ago, Joe D. said:

Hello Glasswalker,( Explain the name)?

   Welcome to the forum! All the pinpointer suggestions given will work great! But a long handled scoop is a must for the beach; more so than a pinpointer! A stainless steel one will hold up longer than an aluminum one, but is a little heaver!

   There is another member of the forum you should talk to from NZ! His forum name is Phrunt (Simon), and he has some stuff in common with you background wise! He may be able to be of assistance to you, being that you two are fairly close to one another! You can personal message (PM) him by clicking on his name anywhere on the forum, and than clicking on the little envelope, in the center of the screen! Good Luck with the new/old hobby!👍👍

 

Hey Joe, agreed on the suggestion of a scoop! Trying to find one locally, unfortunately they are apparently impossible to find here! (I can find the smaller stainless steel ones with a very short handle right on the scoop, for like $90 NZD). But yet to find a reasonable source for one of these. May have to DIY something... 

Also yeah already talking to Simon as well, he has responded to a couple of my other threads! Great to know someone else familiar with both the local area and my detector. He's already been a huge help!

3 hours ago, BeachHunter said:

I agree that Simon would be the guy to talk to. I’ve never used a pin pointer at the beach in the last 7 years. A quality scoop like a Sito? (I believe they are Australian) may be just the ticket. Too small of a scoop does not get the job done. Good luck!

Hey BeachHunter, you're echoing other comments as well which is great. I may be able to get away without a pinpointer if I'm focusing on beach hunting, but a scoop is apparently going to be pretty critical. That's the first specific brand recommendation I've heard (and would be great if they are made in AU, because at least shipping from AU is easier to here!) Thanks! I'll look into Sito.

2 hours ago, Tom Slick said:

On the subject of scoops, Short handles make you bend over too far. 👎 Long handles make the scoop heavier and you have to use your foot to kick it into the sand. 👎. About 16-18" handle is just right in the dry sand and san be used in the wet sand if necessary although a longer handle works better in the wet. For the dry, get a scoop with a wire basket as they sift the sand much quicker than drilled or punched holes with a lot less shaking. I prefer Plain steel over stainless as they are lighter and less expensive. Forget plastic and aluminum scoops don't have wire baskets. I'm all for stainless or aluminum long handled in the wet and in the water. 

Hey Tom! this is great info, I hadn't considered a wire basket, that might even be something I could DIY reasonably easy (I was trying to find pre-perforated steel here that I could use to DIY a scoop, but couldn't find that either). But wire mesh of the right size might be doable... Interesting idea! 

The pics of different scoop options are quite helpful too. Thanks!

Thanks everyone for the awesome suggestions and feedback!

36 minutes ago, GB_Amateur said:

You're safe buying one of those (I'm not saying all inexpensive pinpointers are counterfeits) but you would effectively be encouraging the crooks at the expense of the deserving manufacturers.

This is a VERY good point, and I'm glad you made me realize it. Thanks!

Also thanks for the recommendation on the book! Yeah building my own detector did come to mind as a fun project, and maybe a logical starting point is a pinpointer lol... Even if the book was the same cost as a cheapo pointer, would probably be a much better way to spend the money! 🙂

Cheers!

7 minutes ago, GB_Amateur said:

... Do you think you can make them as lightweight as those supplied/sold by Minelab?  ...

... I've never burned through a coil cover but I don't spend a lot of time in rocky or abrasive surfaces...

... Garage mods are fun, but if that takes away from your detecting time it seems counterproductive. ...

... Anything that risks voiding the warranty isn't a good idea ...

Hey thanks! Basically I'll take this feedback to be that you don't see any real need for any "add-ons". Obviously not random add-on or mod I can do here would significantly change the performance of the machine, or address any of that type of shortfalls. I'm more looking at neat little "quality of life" changes. But if you can't think of any, that's great, perhaps the product is perfect as it is, and I'll find other ways to create little things to help with the hobby 😉

I'll address the above quoted points directly:

To your first point, I wasn't aware Minelab offered an external battery pack for the Vanquish series, could you post a link? I thought it accepted AA size batteries only, and there is the third party Lithium based battery pack for it. One criticism I've read in the forums seems to be either "disposable batteries yuck" or "NiMH, lower voltage, detector doesn't perform as well, or doesn't last as long" (hell, the dealer even told me when we picked it up. My thinking was a printable cover with small interface circuit would be significantly lighter than the 4x AA batteries+stock cover, and then the external pack could be any old USB power bank available retail, which could be located to the back, it would pull the balance towards the elbow, improving ergonomics. The whole thing could be possibly equally as heavy as the 4xAA packs with a small/light Lithium pack, but with lower runtime, or slightly heavier overall, but with significantly longer runtime, and easy recharge options. Anyway it was just a thought 🙂 but if Minelab offers something like this, by all means, no sense re-inventing the wheel.

To the second point, Didn't realize this, just kind of assumed they would be a part you'd wear out and replace once in a while, but if that's not the case, maybe that's not as useful as I thought lol

For the third point, my hobbies cover a number of areas, I have a few of them so I can juggle, and try to line up hobbies that are complimentary to one another. But regardless of all that, I always build things, I tinker, I create, I like to solve problems. That's at the core of everything. For me any hobby I adopt, I will always find ways to tinker, that's just who I am, and part of how I enjoy things. So no worries there 🙂

Finally, yeah to go hand in hand with the third point, not my first rodeo... Though that said I tend to find ways to do mods that do not void warranty. For example external "add-on" accessories that don't interfere in any way, shouldn't impact warranty at all. And whether I use AA alkaline cells, or AA nickel metal, or I use a Lithium pack to power it, without modifying the detector at all, that shouldn't be a problem (unless the control box fails because the battery blows up and fries the mainboard, which would be very easily detectable by Minelab support, and I'd expect to lose my warranty over that).

Anyway just looking for anyone who's used the Vanquish (specifically the 540) who may have thought "Hey it would be really useful if I had ***" in which case maybe that's something worth looking into 😉

And yeah you're totally right, I'm just thinking of stuff, as I can't actually get my hands on the detector until Christmas (or my wife will beat me with it) lol... Anyway as a result my brain is just churning killing time. Once I get hands-on I'll definitely go out and use it a bunch to get a feel, and identify real gaps, but it can't hurt to brainstorm!

Cheers!

Hey, thanks Tom for the advice.

Looking at some of the other models you recommended:

• Garrett Pro-pointer II is about $180-$200 NZD shipped to get here in New Zealand
• Garrett Pro-pointer AT is about $260 NZD shipped to get locally here
• The XP Mi6 is about $310 NZD locally

Just to give comparisons (relative local price) to the other known models I listed in my original post.

I totally agree that getting a good/trusted device is always the right way to go. Normally I'm not one to cut corners, but under the circumstances I'm just thinking the summer activity rush in beaches/parks will be heavy through Dec/Jan/Feb and into March. Then things start to shift into Autumn mode, still lots of activity, but it starts to reduce from there. And if I want to ride that and do some hunting for the resulting treasures from that activity, I'll want to be out during those months.

IF (and as you've indicated at least for beach hunting, this may not be true) I need a pinpointer to be effective, my assumption was that a cheap one (if it will work "good enough" and last a couple months) might be suitable as a literal "throw away" device, with the full intent of getting a better device in a few months once I can justify the price and go all-in on a nice quality device. And as you've said a pinpointer is pretty critical for park hunting to avoid damaging too much ground. So I guess that's the main reason for this thread, it's not meant to be a "Cheap vs Decent", but more "is cheap suitable in the limited use-case of being a short-term throw-away device that is meant as a stop-gap for a few months". Or am I better off just using only the main detector and it's pinpoint mode (and perhaps not doing any park detecting as a result if that's a consequence of that decision) until I can justify a "real" pinpointer in a few months.

Thanks!

Hey Everyone, New here, and new/returning to the hobby after a long time away (let's not go into how many years... lol)

Anyway, have a shiny new Minelab Vanquish 540 under the tree that my wife got me for Christmas, and eagerly itching to get out and do some hunting...

But in-line with my other hobbies, and my general nature as an individual, I can't leave anything alone. I'm an Electronics Engineer, Computer Engineer, and I build/diy things like crazy. I have multiple 3D Printers at my disposal, etc...

So, I'm itching to come up with some ways to improve/augment/customize the vanquish, and am interested in hearing what others using these detectors would think of as valuable "quality of life improvements". Since I haven't had much time using them, and even once I do, what I find useful, may be different from what seasoned hunters would find useful, I'd love to hear suggestions.

One obvious idea that springs to mind, is an external power source mod... Which I think I'll be doing for sure. Think of a 3D Printed battery cover replacement, that makes contact inside the battery compartment, takes an external USB power input, and presents a clean regulated 6V to the vanquish. Along with a printed sling for under the arm rest to allow adding the weight of the battery by the elbow for any USB power bank of your choice. would allow longer detecting sessions, and might do a good job of pulling the balance back and lightening the detector... (this is all supposition as I haven't actually handled it yet lol). That one should be an easy build, could probably be done in $20 in parts and plastic, and provide a neat benefit.

I've also thought of printable replacement coil covers. These seem like a "sacrificial" part to me, and would be valuable in having an easy to make replacement for these. My printer should be able to handle the V12 coil on the 540, but maybe not others, so I might have to do this in a couple parts that snap together, but it's easily doable either way.

Anyway, any other thoughts/suggestions/ideas?

I'm eager to build/design some stuff, so now is your chance if there is that little thing you're itching for that minelab haven't released yet!

Cheers!

54 minutes ago, phrunt said:

Here is a list of Target ID's to look out for with your Vanquish.  Gold rings can be anywhere really between say 5 and 22, just look for stable ID's if looking for them, junk targets are bouncy more than good targets.

NZ Silver Threepence, British 50% Silver Threepence  = 16/17
NZ Silver Sixpence, British 50% Silver Sixpence = 18/19
NZ Silver Shilling, British 50% Silver Shilling = 21
NZ  Silver Florin, British 50% Silver Florin = 26
NZ Silver Half crown, British 50% Silver Half Crown = 27/28
NZ and British Penny and 1/2 Penny = 16, 21, 23, 24 - ID drops with corrosion (29 and 27 when clean)
1 cent = 21
2 cent = 25/26
5 cent and cupro nickel sixpence = 9/10
Old 10 cent and cupro nickel shilling = 11/12
Old 20 cent and cupro nickel florin = 16/17
Old 50 cent and cupro nickel half crown = 17/18
Cupro nickel NZ Threepence = 3/4
$1, $2 = 21/22
British Farthing = Typically around 15 (24 when clean)
British 925 Threepence = 21/22
British 925 Sixpence = 26/27
British 925 Shilling = 29/30
British 925 Florin = 31/32
British 925 Half crown = 33/34
1/2 Sovereign - 15
Full Sovereign - 18/19
 queen Victoria shilling - 26/27
king George shilling - 27/28
queen Elizabeth shilling - 20/21
king George florin - 27/28
queen Elizabeth florin - 28/29
king George sixpence (1942) - 22/23/24
king George sixpence (1946) - 21/22

See like I said, that right there... Invaluable 🙂

Thanks! All those tips are hugely appreciated!

Hey everyone, new to the forum, so please go easy on me as I ask my first stupid question of what is likely to be many...

So I'm just getting back into the hobby after many years (actually decades, but I'm choosing not to use that term out of denial!) 🙂

Back then things were a bit simpler it seemed, either that or I was young and ignorant... Anyway...

I've blown all my "hobby budget" (or technically my wife did buying me a present). Getting the Minelab Vanquish 540 for Christmas to go do some beach hunting this summer...

And I'd love to have a pinpointer to make things a bit easier when digging targets, but realize that I can't likely afford one. Unfortunately things here in NZ come at a premium, and all the "good branded, and known quality" pinpointers, are fairly pricy. 

So I am facing 2 options:

1. Just suck it up, and wait. The Vanquish has a pinpoint mode, and that is probably good enough to do my first couple hunts. Then I should be able to afford a decent pinpointer such as:
   • Nokta Pulsedive, which is about $200 NZD locally, shipped.
   • Minelab Profind 35, which is about $265 NZD locally, shipped.
   • Gold Century Pinpointer, which is about $99 NZD locally, shipped. (seems like a bit of an "unknown quantity", not much about this brand)
2. "Cheap Out" and get a random non-known brand, imported one from Amazon, which I can justify now because it's dirt cheap, and then upgrade later on.
   • The "SUMGOTT Waterproof Pinpointer" on amazon for about $50 NZD shipped (seems to have decent reviews on amazon if that means anything):
     https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07YHCDHB6
   • The "UCPJLV Upgraded Waterproof High Sensitivity Pinpointer" on amazon, for about $85 NZD shipped (again seems to have decent reviews):
     https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08HCR9XK8

What I'm seeking is some input on whether the cheap options are likely to work well enough for some basic beach and park hunting (not diving, maybe searching in surf or wet sand). Are they likely to give enough advantage just through their basic function, to speed up and enhance the hunting experience, considering the cheap price, even though I acknowledge I will likely want a better one ultimately in the future, and considering I do have a detector with a pinpoint mode.

Or should I just stick to the detector only, use it's pinpoint mode, knowing that realistically it will be at least 2-3 months before I'll be able to get a "decent" pinpointer.

Thoughts? Input? Suggestions? Anyone have any actual hands-on experience with one of these? etc...

Thanks in advance!