Gone Bush

Back to the creek today as promised.

This is the most variable, mineralised and difficult ground I know.
The creek bed is filled not only with your run of the mill hot red dirt, it’s also filled with pockets of highly reactive tiny iron beads, sometimes a wheel barrow full washed into one corner.
Just like the ones you see that lay all over the ground and make it look blue/grey.
On the hot side of the creek up on the flat there are also lots of these but they don’t seem as reactive as the ones in the creek.
Also, on the level ground they are well spread out rather than in thicker pocket.
Theres also hundreds of pieces of what I assume would be kerosine tins or tobacco tins from one end of the creek to the other.
Little flat things about the size of a grain of rice and paper thin. One sharp end too as I found.
With the 6000 I would wear headphones here.
Running maxed out its too noisy to hear a target on what is a shit speaker.
Used Axiom with speaker, volume on 25 (max) so the phone would pick it up and had no trouble hearing targets and differentiating those from ground noise.
Sensitivity 7 was quite usable (for me at least) but 8 was pushing the friendship.
Sensitivity 4 was a walk in the park however I like to run a detector as hot as possible so likely will predominately run it with headphones on 7 or maybe 8 if I can get away with it.

More impressive every time I use it.

1 hour ago, phrunt said:

Thanks for the video, I liked your description of how the targets appear more defined in the threshold of the Axiom, and how it has less response to variable ground by not being so sensitive towards changes in the ground with it's better ground handling. 

I think once the aftermarket coil manufacturers start to tinker they'll be able to work some magic with the Axiom. 

The one thing missing I'd love that's missing on the 6000 is a way to turn it's ground tracking off, and the Axiom has that ability.  I'm glad Garrett didn't take the fully automatic path and left settings adjustments there, just enough settings to give the necessary control while still keeping it simple to use and it sounds like you'll be able to use these settings to your advantage for sure.

Glad you got it all sorted, and you're probably right, it's better a dud like that went to someone experienced like you as if it went to a newbie they'd never know it was a dud.  This is one of the concerns with the 6000 with it's faulty coils and EMI problems, how many people are out there that don't even know they've got a problematic one as they just don't have the experience to know how it should behave, especially when the detector is marketed towards anyone turning beginners to experts.

The gravel scratching was, I acknowledge, simplistic at best but is the only way I could think to describe how it is different to 6000 but it really is that simple.
While the 6000’s amazing at amplifying the smallest target signal Axiom seems to achieve the same result by handling the ground better therefore not having to put so much effort into amplification.

Agree completely.
The Nugget Finder 12 x 7 evaluation coil on 6000 is a drastic improvement over the standard 11” mono.
Once Coil Yoda (Rohan) at NF, (or whoever else) gets working on their own special black magic for Axiom coils, I am convinced there is more depth to be had.

Absolutely on the settings.
Because 6000 has really only one setting you can play with, (ground I encounter in Western Australia all requires difficult setting), that setting being sensitivity, that i run maxed out anyway, you don’t really miss the adjustability of Axiom until you have it.
That availability of adjustment will, I think, really come into play once some new coils are available and it can be cranked up to the max more often. Can’t wait.
 

2 hours ago, Steve Herschbach said:

I'm glad your dealer was able to quickly get a new detector into your hands. The old one was "tainted" by your experience with it, and you may never really have trusted it, even if it was fixed to be good as new. And more to the point, that would have taken much longer. Looks like 2023 is off to a better start than 2022 ended on. 

Couldn’t have wanted better service from my dealer Jamie.
Any you are 100% correct on the trust comment.
That tiny bit of rusty sheet metal was like a wave of relief washing over me. All doubt removed.
Was happy to hang in Kalgoorlie until the hot weather eased up but now Im anxious to get back up north and hard boil my nuts if I have to just to hit some patches with Axiom.

9 hours ago, peterinaust said:

Your back!! and good to see Gone Bush. And a good result in the end, good on to your dealer for the excellent service he gave you over the holiday season.

Watched your YouTube and best description I have seen yet. Fully understand re the threshold pitch, so a setting of 80 I think you said is that high or low tone?

Really good outcome. I think I have made up my mind now on which way to go, that won't be until April, hope there's still plenty of stock by then.

Cheers, Peter

Hi Peter,

Lower numbers is lower tones and vice versa.

Having never taken all that much notice of tones before, especially when the 6000 is take it or leave it, I was quite surprised at just how much of a difference it makes when you make the effort to narrow down a tone that suits your own hearing abilities.
Probalby should have mentioned that it is beneficial to temporarily revert to a tone that doesn’t suit you as a demonstration of just how much tone adjustment helps.

Replacement Axiom in hand.

34 minutes ago, Gold Catcher said:

I concur. The 9 Goldhawk is a delight, and it is my to-go coil for the 6k in tighter areas (for more open ground I mostly use the Z/NF12). I didn't do the 6k fix as I am only running with BT without ever using the internal speaker, and with the 9 inch Coiltek I have no EMI issues to an extent that would require a fix. I am usually a NF guy (12 NF-Zsearch is probably the best coil I have ever owned), but US-supply is a huge challenge with no (reliable) delivery date in site for the Xceeds (sigh). One thing I will continue to monitor is the Axioms ability to find fast gold at some depth while running smooth in hot ground (7-9 ground by your definition). That to me is where the sweet spot will be. I want to see what sensitivity is left while quiet, and at what depth. Just a smooth threshold in hot ground won't make your pill box rattle. There have been some very promising reports on DP by the early testers, but I want to hear this from retail operators who actually paid for their machine, and who will have a hard (and skeptical) look at it (e.g. you, Norvic, etc.). 

GC

I’ve never bothered with the speaker fix either. Always use a Boss electric guitar wi fi trans receive setup, Bounty Booster amp and ZX Pro headphones.

Agree on NF. Every detector I have purchased for gold has had a NF coil and none have ever failed or been an issue in any way.
Impossible to even guess a percentage of improvement Rohans coils give you but I would be certain they cover their cost many times over.
Smooth on hot ground is good but a frisbee on the end of a stick will run smooth on a sheet of 1/2 inch steel plate so you are absolutely correct, there is more to it than that.
I am quietly confident and have experienced sensitivity 8 on what I consider difficult verging on extreme ground still hit that shotgun pellet at 4 inches and a .22 projectile at 11 inches before it crapped out.
Wanted to weigh the projectile but threw it in the bloody bin with the rest of the trash.
Need a trained raccoon to go in and get it for me.
Unfortunately, every man and his trained raccoon has a detector now and the game has predominantly become one of bulk sub grammers to make up your required weight.
6000 made that viable and given my experience with Axiom so far, I do believe it will get more of those small nuggets but obviously any attempt to accurately determine how much more would be speculation at this point.

For me, even if it only matches 6000 in recovered gold, it’s operational weight, comfort, build quality, (yes, I know), an external speaker that is up to the task and not from the back page of a Radio Shack catalog, available range of coils both Garrett and others, battery life, settings etc etc make it worthwhile.
As I’ve said, my biggest dislike is the unit being shipped with headphones from the set of Flying High.
A good set of cans (audio reproduction, not human reproduction) plugged in to Axiom is kind of like the Z search coil on 7000. It really does bring the audio to life and are a must have on days that are too windy to rely on the speaker.
This started as a thread on a dodgy Axiom but once I get a replacement unit I will keep updating with success/failures.

3 hours ago, Aureous said:

Maybe Im missing something in this very long thread, but GB states that in other locations, the Axiom runs amazingly well? Im thinking that the knock noise is a coil axis issue due to the severe soil. In these mineral soil conditions, the soil becomes conductive like salt but worse.  In the zinc soil I mentioned, the Geologists could run a DC current thru the dirt for several meters. The earth field becomes amplified also. But like you said Steve, without physically being there, its all guess work and we could all be completely wrong....

Turns out it’s not actually a location based issue but only crops up on random power cycles.
Tried cycling it maybe 20 times today but would not drop out the fault.
 

2 hours ago, Aureous said:

I hope your evaluation of the 12x7 is a premonition of my own experience next month.....only been waiting since June. I will be using nothing else for a long time methinks, even though I was lucky enuff to receive a 'good' 11" with my 6000.

 

Been there, done that. I was a big fan of buying new gear, eating steak, drinking whiskey each night on the good weeks......not a fan of eating 2 year old spaghetti from a tin and not even a beer for a wash-down on the bad weeks....  Always best to have a back-up source of income before heading out 'professional'.   Thankfully, these days even 5 grams of gold a week with a 6000 can keep you in food, fuel and a little grog if you live rough in the bush.

If you have had a 7 and put the NF 12” Z search on it, that kind of parallels the 12 x 7 Exceed on 6000 experience except with 6000 the tone doesn’t change.
Rohans coils make 6000 what it should have been when you buy it new.
Smoother, quieter and reliable. Bear in mind you do sacrifice some depth with the 12 x 7 but most laterite gravel areas we detect are quite shallow so not really a concern for us.
Personally, the 16 x 10 will be my go to coil when they are available.
Deeper than the standard 11” but still able to poke it under a bush or in between some rocks. While Steve was in Meekatharra with JP and son he saw this coil in action and I think would back me up that its ‘the shit’.
Two weeks ago I had a play with the 9” round Coiltek and was hugely impressed.
Im not a Coiltek person (Holden/Ford) but to go over it just once more and make absolutely sure you leave not a single crumb behind, this is the coil to have. Obviously not as deep as the standard 11” but more sensitive that the man in the canoe.

Yes, full time prospecting, (professional suggests ability’s I don’t possess at anything other than masturbation), is a roller coaster ride off feast or famine.
Two years ago, before 6000, gay prostitution was looking viable.
Then along came 6000 and last year was best ever. Over a kilo.
Now, with Axiom, 6000 and for those 2 day drives down bush tracks looking for virgin ground (as rare as a real virgin in this day and age), the 7000, we can walk away from a patch pretty confident that we got everything there is to get.

The old joke, how do you make $500,000.00 prospecting? Start with a million.

4 hours ago, Steve Herschbach said:

I’ve said I think it’s defective based on my use, Lunk says the same, the lead engineer concurs. How many more opinions are needed that something is not right? I left myself an out with my statement though because unless it’s me there on the ground holding the detector in my own hands, there is a degree of speculation left, not 100% certainty.

I’ve never had a hint of coil knock ever, with any Axiom coil, on any ground, at any setting. That enough is all I need to see to say something is not right.

So, Steve, Lunk and lead engineer, you are correct. Definitely a faulty unit.

Start the morning on a patch that I would guess is a 6 for mineralisation.
East of Kalgoorlie about 20 klms.
Cant be sure as Fiona has headed back to Perth with her 4800.
Axion is perfect, runs like a dream.
Not only that but in fine with sensitivity on 6, 7 and sometimes 8. Bootiful.
Wouldn’t recommend 8 for everyone but I run 6000 maxed out so am used to that style of detecting.
No gold but the usual suspects, shotgun pellets, swarf, rusty shit from kero and tobacco tins etc etc.
There was a .22 projectile I heard at about 11 inches down that surprised me.
One side mangled from hitting something then I guess deflecting into the ground?
Unusually deep for a .22 though. Had me wondering if I was on previously disturbed ground.
Switch off, Axiom and I go inside to make a sandwich for lunch (I have a Land Cruiser with air conditioned single man’s quarters on the back) and reply/post a couple of posts on here.
After lunch, bit over an hour later, switch back on and Boom Crash Opera has a concert in the goldfields.
Back to how it was in the creek. Unusable.
Definitely a fault of some kind that comes and goes at will.
So each occasion it ran well was obviously because it was running normally and each occasion it was shit was due to this intermittent fault.
Reset, DD coil, power cycles, nothing helps.
Annoying but at least I know for sure now.
Sorry I doubted you Steve mate friend…..
Hopefully Garrett Australia are paying attention and have a replacement available.

What this also tells me is that on ground like yesterday out Leonora road that is a pain for 6000, fault free Axiom ran smoother than a supermodels ass.
So congrats on that Garrett, a winner on that shitty ground.

Conclusion for me, based on no fault operation, is it’s really just the next step in detector evolution.
6000 will find gold so small that a $100 set of scales can’t weigh it so trying to find anything smaller than that would be redundant.
Ground balancing is what sets it apart.
Meaning a borderline target on 6000 maxed out could well be swallowed up in ground noise (especially on ground like where we were yesterday) whereas Axiom seems better at holding back that ground noise to bring an otherwise marginal target to your attention. So I guess it’s not finding deeper nuggets per se, just enabling you to better hear what you would likely miss with 6000. Kind of work smarter not harder. Notwithstanding it being faulty, I do love it.
And with some aftermarket coils I am confident there is more depth to be had.

Anyway, mines definitely cactus so need another one!

Best wishes to all, and thank you for your help and suggestions, it means a lot,
Ray

 

6 hours ago, peterinaust said:

In the new year, was thinking of a 6000 and followed the problems it was having and seems to be ok now. And then the Axiom came along and made me lean more towards the Axiom, and you started having trouble (looks like the only one though) should be a few more in oz by now? you would think.

Thank you so much for posting and spending so much time to try and get to the bottom of this problem, when you could be out finding gold.

I wander if Garrett in the US follow DP? and chase it up with Garrett in oz. From what we hear Garrett are very good with warranty. We will see.

Thank you thank you for posting.

Cheers Peter.

I 

Absolutely nothing wrong with going for a 6000.
Given a suitable location and with a Nugget Finder Exceed 12 x 7 and 16 x 10 you absolutely will find good gold.

My counsel however would be to wait.
While I have heard from varied sources that current production 6000’s are ok, it was only 3 moths ago when one of the group bought a 6000 and it lasted one day. I assume this type of thing as what you are referring to.
Having said that I must stress that Minelab have been absolutely, unequivocally, fantastic in their response to any issues we have had.
Same person who got the dead 6000 also had a 7000 that was out of warranty but hardly used until mid this year when it failed.
Turns out the 19” coil shorted and fried something in the control box.
On the same day they received it, Minelab repaired the 7000, replaced the defective 19” coil and shipped it back out at no charge.
Given their currently exceptional levels of service, I think the potential failure of a 6000 control unit should be a minor consideration when making a purchase decision. Coils, not so much 🤣
My reason for suggesting you wait is because I believe that Axiom, with aftermarket coils, will be a better overall package than 6000.
Cant see it being a long wait either.
Garrett did the smart thing and avoided the temptation to include some form of 🤬 proprietary chip or whatever so only their coils or those licensed by them can be used.
This means, and I know for a fact it is already happening, coil manufacturers will be designing and releasing coil alternatives very quickly, especially as first in usually takes the largest market share and therefore an insurmountable lead in the market.
I do think it will be slightly different than the aftermarket coil rollout for the 6000 though.
Mono 11” coils for the 6000 fail with such alarming regularity that I went through 5 up until Rohan at NF sent me a 12 x 7 developmental coil to use.
The time between 6000 release and the first aftermarket coils from Coiltek being available was over a year.
At this point 6000 had built its reputation as the absolute leader on fine gold and subsequently reached a high level of uptake. Not market saturation of potential buyers but close.
So now you’ve got thousands of 6000 owners pissed at their failing coils and looking for options.
Therefore, as soon as Coiltek released their offerings they couldn’t keep up with demand for months.
With Axiom, detector stock is somewhat limited and there are not as many Garrett groupies as Minelab.
Hand built machines made in the USA have a drastically different production process than a 6000.
So with the ability to get coils into the market in maybe a quarter of the time it took for the 6000 and a much lower number of available buyers, I doubt there will be the scarcity that has accompanied coil releases for Minelab machines.
I note that Garrett Australia does not have the accessory coils for Axiom (like the 11 x 7 DD) listed on their website.
This leads me to believe that aftermarket coils for Axiom may well be readily available before Garrett themselves can reliably stock and offer the full range of their own accessory coils.

If you have your Christmas present money burning a hole in your pocket and are impatient like most of us, it’s unlikely you would regret buying a 6000 over Axiom.
Because the amount and quality of food on my table is in direct proportion to what gold I find, obviously, I always want to know that whatever is attached to my arm will, for whatever reason, provide me with the best possible chance of success.
Hence I am an early adopter and tend to want the newest thing out for my money in the assumption (read: Hope) that it will give me an advantage.
Should you be one of those lucky enough to call gold prospecting a hobby rather than employment, you can maybe afford to wait and make a much more informed decision.

Hope this helps 😊

17 hours ago, Gold Catcher said:

Thanks, Gone Bush. Yes indeed, many areas in CA have serious hot rock issues, either due to volcanic activities (Mojave desert in the South) or due the nature of the iron rich geology of the motherlode belt (i.e. Serpentine schist, North). Now, we also have better and milder grounds for detecting, so it is certainly not all that bad across the entire state. It just would be nice to have a workable and light machine available for these problematic areas where other machines can't be used (with the GPZ being perhaps an exception, with the settings I described). Although in AU the nature of the soil is very different, you surely don't lack difficult ground conditions there neither (!), so the Axiom could be a great value detector with its reported GB capabilities. It would be very interesting to go back to the same spot where you shot the clip to see if the same test nugget would be picked up after the fix. But this might be a long journey, so probably not feasible. I hope you can at least use the Axiom in less hot grounds during your trip, with some nice gold for you to take home regardless. You surely earned it. Good luck!

GC

If Garrett decide to replace the unit, as I believe they will want to do, my first trip will be back to that exact creek bed location.
Only 45 klms out so well worth the trip to see the results.
Overall, excluding the currently unknown noise issue, it’s ground balance and hot rock abilities are the best I have seen in any detector ever.

This is the text from a DM I sent yesterday to Steve H:

“Stockholm syndrome is real.
After yesterday, even though I am reasonably confident this unit has an issue, I don’t want to admit it.
Yesterdays location has, for reasons I don’t know, always been a very difficult location to detect.
Not overly hot per se but mineralised in such a way that every detector I have tried there has real difficulties.
Last year I was there with a friend and we stuffed around for a giggle and tried his 7000, my 6000, his SDC and even my Garrett Sea Hunter Mk II amongst others.
None of them operated anywhere near as perfectly as Axiom yesterday.
Depth varies dramatically from bedrock visible to three feet of what appears to be a combination of calcium rich wash gravels and WA typical high Fe content fines.
Without analysis I can’t be sure what it is but I do know that how Axiom handled it was one of the most impressive things I have seen in some time.
After I took the video I cranked it up to 8 and played around for a bit.
Normally, from experience with particularly 6000, it would be very difficult to determine a target from the undulating ground noise while pushing that much power into the ground in that location.
But Axiom easily maintained good separation between a low sound wave peak on ground noise and a much higher peak on a target.
Wave duration also was markedly different between target and ground.
No doubt what was a target and what was a noise pocket.
If I didn’t know better I would say this was the location Garrett did all R & D on Axiom. It was that good there.
I have no doubt now that Axiom, maxed out, is pushing much more power, for want of a better term, into its pulse than 6000.
Im not all that technical so I hope you are picking up what I’m putting down.
Some decent non Garrett coils and Axiom will, in my opinion and quoting Dr. Emmet Brown, see some serious shit.”

Currently there is no option for me to do anything about getting Axiom replaced even if I was 100% sure it is a faulty unit.
So, I am taking the time to be sure and at this point it’s still 50/50.
Hard to believe that a detector can work so well on ground that historically I would call extreme, (admittedly due to mineralisation different to what you would normally call extreme), but has issues in a creek bed that would also rate extreme.
The creek bed is definitely a more varied ground but the difference between the way Axiom responds between the two is dramatic.

What you saw as a target in the video was a shot gun pellet 0.18 grams roughly 105mm (4 and a bit bald eagles) deep.
The reason I chose that spot in amongst the trees was because I had been over it several times with 6000 and was (wrongly) sure no targets existed to interfere with diagnosing a problem with Axiom
Its also one of the more difficult areas on that tenement.
Unusual for a pellet to be more than an inch or two down so we raked all the leaves and debris out to find that it appears someone has dumped the equivalent of maybe four wheelbarrows of dirt there and years of erosion have washed the mound down until it’s barely noticeable and when covered with leaves and debris, unnoticeable.
In the video you can see that the target location is slightly elevated in comparison to the ground around it.
Being a nice shady spot, I know I have been through there at least twice previously with 6000 and missed that target.
That in itself and as a one off doesn’t prove much other than most likely I didn’t do a very good job previously or possibly but unlikely 6000 couldn’t process the extreme ground well enough to show me the target. I would lean towards the first likelihood.
Axion heard the pellet on 6 and as you see in the video, it was quite a clear signal and similar in tone and shape to the test nugget sitting on the surface.
When I took sensitivity to 8, it fairly well blew my skirt up and yet was still usably stable on surrounding ground.

Yesterday has proven one thing above all else, I must retract my previous statement.
Regardless of any possible fault in this particular Axion, I would always want one in the detector tool box.
That is based on only using it around Kalgoorlie where every piece of available ground has been hammered to death.
I must stress that it has yet to find gold but I believe that to be a reflection of my location rather than a deficiency in Axiom.
Was I 1000 klms further north in my backyard, I am 100% confident there would be gold in my bottle.
Unfortunately, at this time of year, it’s so hot up there that if you wear safety orange you burst into flames.
And let’s not forget that gold in the bottle is the point of the exercise and ultimately reveals all about a detector and it’s operator.

At this point in the journey and given that for the last 18 months I have exclusively used and been successful with a 6000 I would say this:

Only allowed one detector and only with coils supplied by the detector manufacturer - Axiom
Only allowed one detector with any coils of my choosing - 6000 with Rohan’s excellent NF 12 x 7 and 16 x 10 monos

Based just on experience and without any scientific test to back me up (gulp) I think a maxed out 6000 is probably equivalent to setting 6 or 7 on a production version Axiom with the higher available gain.
So once the coil manufacturers give us coils that allow Axiom to be run maxed out the majority of the time I would absolutely expect it to overtake 6000 in grams.
Then, combined with the many other things I have previously mentioned (build quality, adjustability, weight, balance, battery life etc etc) that already elevate it above 6000, Axiom would be my first choice.

I am grateful for the ability to afford multiple detectors so, for me, 6000 and Axiom (either current unit or replacement if this one proves to indeed be moody) will be cell mates into the foreseeable future.
As I typed the above sentence I realised that, as of today, I can’t even be sure the specific Axiom I currently have is operating completely as intended and yet like it enough to not be without one regardless of what other detectors I have available to use.
That in itself is telling.

While waiting to speak with Garrett, I will continue to advise you all with anything relevant that occurs while using Axiom.

Have a safe and Happy Christmas.
 

55 minutes ago, jasong said:

He does it get it fairly stable (for highly variable ground anyways) in that video he posted by switching to Normal and re-ground balancing. The problems he was pointing out I think are two: it won't pick up the 0.1 gram nugget when he does achieve stability, and it seems to "false" when coil touches the ground. (I'm using "false" for lack of a better term there).

Case 1  w/nugget sensitivity - It's normal to lose sensitivity to smaller gold for any PI in highly variable ground. I think you are saying the same thing too? Also his X (I assume its X?) is going from 50 to 60, while Lunk's is going 58 to 62. So it's definitely more variable ground - thus should be expected to be tougher to get stable without more sensitivity loss. 

Case 2 the part where the coil touches the ground can indicate a bad coil or some control unit problem in another PI though, hard to tell from the vid. But again, in highly variable soils this also happens with my 45, 6, and 7 as the control unit struggles to recompute quick enough (that's what it feels like anyways). Even just tapping the coil against a rock in these cases is enough to cause this ground signaling. It almost only ever happens in highly variable X ground, just being hot ground usually isn't enough.

Anyways, that's the report distilled into the two relevant issues I think. This stuff is all normal with other PI's. I guess the question really is "what is normal and abnormal with an Axiom"? Is there really a problem here? Have to admit my interest is selfish here as working highly variable wash bottoms is one of the main reasons I still have a lot of interest in watching Axiom performance. Left almost all the really variable washes undetected, sort of a last remaining bastion my 6 and 7 won't work at all in. But I can see a potential for my comments being counterproductive here as well since I simply know nothing about the Axiom in specific - if that's the case please let me know and I'll just lurk again. 🙂

You are right on the money.

Stability is attainable to a point than makes Axiom usable, even on the variable creek wash, but at the expense of small gold around that 0.10 gram.

And yes, while many are saying it’s a faulty unit, I am still yet to be sure of that hence still playing about with it.

6 hours ago, blackjack said:

I'm finding hard to keep up, is it crap or, or do you have a crush, is it hard work or blowing you away dude.

A fair question without an easy answer.

Based on its performance today, at that particular tenement, I would say it’s the best thing since strawberry flavoured lube.
Based on yesterday morning, at that particular location, I would say same same as 6000 but much better on hot rocks.
Based on yesterday afternoon, at that particular location, I would say it’s a boat anchor.
Based on the day before that, at that particular location, I would say I would rather have the clap.

On some ground it certainly appears to be an over full bucket of crap.
On todays patch, I couldn’t have wanted a better detector.

Still have not determined the cause for such varying performance.
This particular unit may have a defect of some kind that, on hot ground, causes it to take a dump.
Have pretty much eliminated the usual suspects like coil, connectors etc.
Assumed from previous days/locations that choosing today’s location, (where 6000 needs constant attention to be stable), would confirm that Axiom is a faulty unit.
End result, as stated, was the exact opposite. 
Now I have to choose another location that I know is hotter than normal and try again.
Fiona has her 4800 that we use to gauge ground conditions so if Axiom has difficulty on ground that is relatively ok with a little bit of tuning on the 4800 I know there is a problem with the Axiom.
Just keep trying different locations and settings in an attempt to narrow down the cause.

Might resolve it tomorrow, might take a week. How long is a piece of string?
 

1 hour ago, Gold Catcher said:

PS: Just saw your new clip, good to see that it runs better. I noticed at the beginning of the clip that it tends to track out rather quickly with the settings that you are using, something Lunk was pointing out as well, I think. How does the Axiom do at some depth in that ground? Can you burry the nugget a few inch to see if it still picks it up?

Cheers!

GC 

Depth testing is next in the list.
Still need to figure out why it’s so unstable in some locations and not others.
 

Out in the bush again.

This spot is closer to town, about 20 klms out.
It’s quite an interesting patch.
Looks like any other ground but seems to have mineralisation different to anywhere else.
6000 does work here maxed out but requires quite the amount of attention to keep running ok.
Very frequent ground balances, like every 2 minutes, and a ground balance and resweep over any signal before excavation.
Doable but hard work.

Axiom blew me away.
Mode fine, speed medium, sensitivity 4 but easily handled 6 and even 8 would be usable after a little more time under the belt.
All in fine mode!
Cant believe the same detector that yesterday had issues with a creek bed the 6000 was generally pretty good on could come, of all places, here, and knock it out of the park.
I think I might have a crush.
Seriously, even the possible hot ground problems can’t stop me from liking this thing in a way I never did with 6000.
Almost like the 6000 is all business and ‘look at me’ but Axiom is more like ‘Chill man, if it’s there I’ll like let you know dude’.
Still gives you the feedback on changing ground but in a less intrusive way.
If Axiom ran on 7-8 ground like It did here today, well, I would say 6000 does have serious competition.
Big call I know but I can’t emphasise how impressive it was today.
There is no comparison on ergonomics as well.
6000 feels like a home made built in a rush low end kind of thing whereas Axiom is all about quality and comfort.
Headphones are shithouse and still have that dull clicking noise that sounds like mini relays opening/closing in time with the threshold.
Don't hear that on wired headphones. Definitely see a WR-1 in my future.

So, after today, I’m still not convinced that this particular unit has a problem.
As I say in the video, maybe I just picked a few patches that Axiom doesn’t like in the same way 6000 gets uppity on some places I take it.
Until I am convinced there is a fault, I shall continue as planned.
Having trouble reconciling how a detector can be so shit for days then turn into buttery perfectness.
Prospectors Patch in Kalgoorlie (Jamie) is closed until the 30th January so bit of a pickle there anyway.
Will give him a call in a couple of days and see what he suggests.
Would be nice to hear from someone at Garrett Australia sometime soon as well.

16 hours ago, Gold Catcher said:

This is where my particular interest would be for the Axiom. I realize that I am in a very different situation than many because I have excellent machines to choose from, and I am just looking for a very particular application (finding gold in very hot ground where other PI's struggle). But I have to say that the GPZ/NF12 in general/difficult (my to-go settings in very thot ground) generally has a very stable threshold and a 0.1 g nugget on the surface would blow your headset of your ears. Now granted, not a fair comparison between these very different detectors (also from a price point!), but for me performance in difficult situations is all that matters. But these particular needs are certainly not what makes a detector great or not. I am sure the Axiom is an excellent detector and a welcomed competitor for ML, and it will make a very convincing case for a great all-round PI with a settings package that the 6000 is lacking (unfortunately).

GC

Felt I should further reply to this comment.

Steve H, having extensively experienced both Western Australia's version of hot ground and Northern California's version of hot ground, states pretty plainly and often that the NC version is very much the more difficult to detect on.

So, Aussies that read these forums, please take note of what the USA regulars post on here, (like Gold Catcher), particularly those members who predominately operate in the super hot areas.
It's common sense that they will have a higher skill set with a detector on the ground they are forced to work with.
On many occasions just reviewing posts has given me not only assistance with an issue and daily prospecting but a much greater understanding of detector operation.

To all those who contribute for no other reason to help others, thank you.

14 hours ago, Gold Catcher said:

Could not agree more! You need to try it to actually believe it. To me, this coil was a total game changer for the Z without the need to cut the cable.

Even after resigning my self to Z now being to heavy for me, I still spent a considerable amount of time and money on assorted devices trying to develop a suitable way to continue with it.
Last try was a modified Stihl pole trimmer support brace! Still no good.
Resolved to just start wearing a skirt and sell the Z.
Thankfully 6000 came along at pretty much exactly this time so there was a lighter option.

All of that time and effort was put in because of how much the NF changed the Z for the better.
Different tone took some getting used to but overall I still think the Z/small NF coil is still the premium detector combination based on detecting ability alone.
Don't know why Minelab has not cut a deal with Rohan at NF to start selling the Z with the small NF coil as the standard coil.
This would generate substantial interest from newbies, help with flagging sales and more correctly match the predominately small gold environment we now find ourselves in here. 

We still have two Z's at prospecting home base but the crew are all well into their 50's, 60's, 70's and a few 80's now so they rarely get taken out.
Last time was May this year.
Took a Z and 19" coil out to the lease to scan the bottom of the 200 ounce hole to see if we had already excavated the entire reef or if it kicked of again at a depth only the Z/19" could hear.
Had we got a decent signal, the jackhammers would have come out (its our mining lease before the comments rain down) along with no doubt beer, in sizeable quantities.
No result unfortunately.
Also unfortunately, the ground there is some of the hardest calcrete bonded boondies I have seen so the old backhoe we have there has now run out of oompf to be able to go any deeper.
Further investigation will now be purely speculative and require a sizeable excavator (likely 30 ton or better) with rock hammer and maybe even some boom boom. Unlikely to happen any time soon.

8 hours ago, Steve Herschbach said:

Any more running, testing or discussion of a defective detector seems a waste of time. There are no conclusions to draw here except get it repaired or replaced. Off on the wrong foot here and that’s on Garrett.

Didn’t want to believe it but appears you are correct and it’s a dud.
After getting back to camp I played about some more and have also concluded same.

”No good deed goes unpunished “.
Lent the 6000 to Bo to see if he likes it enough to get one.
He and family are down in Widgiemooltha on holidays until the ninth January.
Back on same day Garrett Australia reopens.
Have spare machines in Cue but that’s 9 hours drive each way.
Local Minelab dealer closed until 18th so can’t just go and buy another 6000 even if I wanted to.

So aren’t I the lucky one.
Get to spend the next two weeks of Christmas holidays with best detecting buddy Fiona (she travelled from Perth to spend holidays together prospecting) and a faulty detector or two days driving and $900 in fuel to get something that works.
Thanks Garrett, nicely done. 
At least the first 6000 lasted three months before the first coil crapped out.
FOR ME IT Looks like reliability is off the table as a reason to change to Axiom.
At least it compares to 6000 in the quality stakes 🤣🤣 THESE ARE SMILY FACES AND INDICATE A JOKE THAT IS MORE ACCURATELY A DIG AT MINELAB THAN GARRETT

Prospectors Patch (Jamie) might be open Tuesday here in Kalgoorlie but I doubt he will have another unit to replace this one with or would want to do so without Garrett Australia first giving him the ok.
Prospectors Patch other store in Midvale (Perth, 6 hours each way) run by Jamie’s son looks like it will be open Wednesday but again may not physically have a replacement and again, without communication from Garrett may be unlikely to want to replace the defective unit.
These are the only Garrett dealers in WA and only option for trying to save the next two weeks detecting time without the aforementioned two day trek for a working 6000.
Waiting for Garrett to reopen on the ninth is not something I would be happy to do.
And there’s no way in hell I would stand for having to send it for repair.
Maybe it’s just me but I don’t spend this kind of money to have a repaired unit.
Repaired detector’s are what you buy for half off at the end of model factory clearance.
If I can’t get it replaced and have to make the journey to Cue, Axiom will be sold and replaced with another 6000.

What an awesome Christmas this turned out to be.
Wont bother with any further posts at this stage. Just making me angrier. Should have known better really.

Its 3.30am here on what is now officially Christmas Day so best wishes to all for Christmas and may you all have a safe holiday season.

1 hour ago, Lunk said:

I would conclude that as well, based on my experience just yesterday on very similar sounding ground as in the above video that I was playing around with the Ax settings and a test nugget that weighs 0.0 on the scale, which presumably means it actually weighs 0.05 of a gram or less. The ground is variable with sudden and abrupt changes, at ground balance readings from 58/29 to 62/31. With Ground Track on Slow and Speed set to Slow, I had to swing much slower than Gone Bush in the video, but the Ax was able to keep up with the changes and bang on the test nugget at sensitivity levels of 4 to 8 in Fine, Normal and Large Detect Modes with no problem. After 4 or 5 repeated swings over the test nugget, the Ax would try to track to it, making it sound less responsive and chirpy, as would be expected. With Ground Track set to Medium, I could increase my swing speed a bit, but the target response was not as pronounced, and the Ax would try to track to the nugget after only 3 or 4 swings over it. Set to Fast, Ground Track would completely track out the nugget at only 2 swings. So again based on this, I would conclude that that Gone Bush's unit is defective. Hope Garrett can resolve this for you soon, GB.

Thanks for taking the time to provide this response Lunk.

Your comments are definitely not what I am experiencing so looks like a dud.

8 minutes ago, goldenoldie said:

Okay yes, I know see you had in your 4 posting in this thread.

Gave it a try, still shithouse. 👍😊

1 hour ago, Gold Catcher said:

This is where my particular interest would be for the Axiom. I realize that I am in a very different situation than many because I have excellent machines to choose from, and I am just looking for a very particular application (finding gold in very hot ground where other PI's struggle). But I have to say that the GPZ/NF12 in general/difficult (my to-go settings in very thot ground) generally has a very stable threshold and a 0.1 g nugget on the surface would blow your headset of your ears. Now granted, not a fair comparison between these very different detectors (also from a price point!), but for me performance in difficult situations is all that matters. But these particular needs are certainly not what makes a detector great or not. I am sure the Axiom is an excellent detector and a welcomed competitor for ML, and it will make a very convincing case for a great all-round PI with a settings package that the 6000 is lacking (unfortunately).

GC

That NF coil makes the 7000 soooo much better. Had one on mine and loved it.

I also think Axiom is an awesome unit notwithstanding the current issues.
As I mentioned, I nearly dropped a load in my pants when I saw it handle hot rocks this morning.
As to your particular application, I will be sure to keep this thread updated in the hope it provides information that may be of assistance to you.

3 minutes ago, Gold Catcher said:

This is where my particular interest would be for the Axiom. I realize that I am in a very different situation as many because I have excellent machines to choose from, and I am just looking for a very particular application (finding gold in very hot ground where other PI's struggle). But I have to say that the GPZ in general/difficult (my to-go settings in very thot ground) generally has a very stable threshold and a 0.1 g nugget on the surface would blow your headset of your ears. Now granted, not a fair comparison between these very different detectors, but for me personally this is all that matters.

GC

Also agree.

One of the reasons I got rid of a 6000 and bought Axiom was to revisit places that mineralisation and/or hot rocks made 6000 difficult/impossible to successfully operate.
Kind of like when the 6000 first landed. It was a unreliable piece of shit but when going well it really did make flogged patches come alive again.
Back injury means my 7000 days are over so that only leaves 6000 or Axiom unfortunately.

32 minutes ago, Gold Catcher said:

Bummer. Stabilizing the threshold and not hearing a surface 0.1 g nugget defeats the purpose. Looking forward to reading more reports as they come in. 

GC

Agree.

Very frustrating to have a morning on moderate ground where Axiom gives you a fat to the extent that you would consider it better than a 6000 (especially with hot rocks) but then throw some hot ground at it and it drops its bundle.

Must say, I love everything about Axiom except three things:

Wi-Fi headphones are shithouse. Like a speaker with a blanket over it. Try some good wired headphones and the audio comes alive. WR-1 should come with Axiom. Unacceptable that Garrett Australia does not even stock it.

The charging port cover is shithouse. Never stays closed. Just like the 6000. Crap.

And the obvious issues I am having with hot ground.

While, in my opinion, (and let’s not forget that opinions are like ass holes, everyone has one and on close inspection, they stink), the 6000 still has an slight edge on Axiom, I would venture that if my hot ground issue can be resolved and I can get my hands on a WR-1 to enable use of quality headphones/ear buds, I will have no issue matching our remaining 6000 on weight recovered.
6000 may still hear smaller nuggets but just the ability to balance out hot rocks that I experienced today would, in the areas we detect, easily make up for missing the odd 0.00 nugget that the 6000 hits on.
Having said that, being unable to have a usable threshold and hear a 0.1 surface nugget regardless of ground mineralisation is still unacceptable, especially in a $7350 machine.

Hers the test nugget we use.