Gone Bush

Yellow dots are where Axiom has had a walk.

No gold yet…..

13 hours ago, jasong said:

I read an article by Bruce Candy once that stated certain Australian laterite-derived soils in WA - while "less hot" than some magnetite laden American soils - can actually be more difficult to deal with for some reasons having to do with ferrite population or something like that (I forget, argh) which mimick targets and thus give ground reponses closer to target responses vs the hotter American ground that gives bigger ground responses, but not as close to target responses, so easier to balance? I wish I could remember what the article was or what the explanation was because I'm sure I'm getting it wrong now...

Anyways - while I know zero about the Axiom and can't comment there. It may be worth trying it out in some totally different soil types before you spend the time sending it off first. Just as a data point if nothing else. There could be places where some specific soils just have a "bad mixture" of ferrite or something particularly difficult to deal with for some detectors and not others?

Hi Jasong,

Bruce actually mentioned something about that in a discussion we had years ago.
My hard drive is also full so can’t recall the conversation exactly.
However, I love laterite gravels to detect.
The 6000 runs smooth, it’s easy digging and I would estimate 80% of my gold comes from laterite gravels mostly around Cue, Mount Magnet and Meekatharra.
Most people tend to head for the quartz blow and the ground around (below) it but ignore pockets of laterite gravels.
One patch we found this year looked like shit, was in a shit location, there was no obvious place gold could have shed from but it gave up over 10 ounces with a 5 ounce king nugget.
Maybe one hot rock per 4 square metres otherwise easy detecting and easy digging.

Can only assume that Bruce’s knowledge on the subject made it into the 6000 because, at least in my experience, it has no issue at all working on laterite gravels.
Next year when it cools off a bit up there I hope to revisit some patches and see what the Axiom thinks of them.

Ok, here we go.

First stop today was a patch around some old shafts about 6 klms south of Coolgardie.
We rate this as a 1 meaning that particular patch should deliver 1 gram for an 8 hour day.
Not great but only 40 klms away so short travel time.
Possible detector issues so didn't want to blow another 100 on fuel for nothing.
On a mineralization scale of 1 to 10 with one being a $299 VLF would pull gold and ten being no hope in hell, this would be a 4-5.
Axiom operated perfectly. Mode fine, sensitivity 4, threshold 25, speed medium and a dream to use.
Even creeped sensitivity up to 6 in lot of places.
However, moving across the tenement, and at around midday it started to get a bit feisty.
There were more hot rocks here so balanced a few of them out and good to go.
Ambient temperature also get very hot.
Forecast I think 38, actual 41. So everything gets quite hot including a black and grey detector.
Possibly this is irrelevant but is notable.
Still, Axiom was certainly usable and easily able to hear the 0.11 test nugget.
Dug maybe 50 targets from ever popular aluminum foil to small shotgun pellets.
No gold but smooth operation on sensitivity 4 in fine mode. Looking good.

After lunch we moved to another tenement on the Kalgoorlie side of Coolgardie where I know there is a creek filled with wash that is very hot. Guesstimate, a 7 maybe 8 out of 10.
Axiom ground balanced at 51-28 then 60-32.
Rate this a 1-2 as in 1-2 grams expected for an 8 hour day.
Then the trouble starts.
Because each side of the creek has markedly different geology, the creek bed is varied and patchy. 
Axiom had issues with this location.
Closer to Hitchcock as a director (mainly because he is dead) than Tarantino but did manage to upload a video.

So, Axiom can provide a good threshold with good stability.
However, any settings used to achieve this meant the 0.11 gram test nugget could not be heard.
Sensitivity 4, Fine mode, medium speed, threshold I think 16 and the nugget can be heard.
These settings give a very unstable threshold that had me digging hot spots one after the other.
Also, bump the ground and threshold goes through the roof.

So back off the sensitivity to get any sort of reasonable threshold and the test nugget disappears.
Same with changing from Fine to Normal with sensitivity on 4.
Nugget barely heard and basically disappeared into the rest of the noise.
Absolutely would not pull you up using speaker or standard supplied headphones.
Overall, sensitivity 3 in normal mode made for the most stable operation.
This was with speaker and/or standard wireless headphones so I think with a decent set of headphones and a WR-1 I might, and I stress might, still be able to hear the nugget.
In this location the 6000 also gets a bit narky but still manages to punch the target signal out.
The 6000 has given us, from memory, maybe 40 pieces from this creek ranging from 0.05 up to 1.2 grams.
Reason I sold one 6000 and got the Axiom was its reported ability's on hot ground and with hot rocks.
Today showed me that Axiom, on ground within its tolerance of hotness (LOL) handles hot rocks in a way that 6000 can only dream off.
I'm trying not to make this a Axiom Vs 6000 but the 6000 is the reference point I have.

Not sure that the unit has any sort of defect (manufacturing or otherwise).
It's possible that it simply is unable to concurrently operate in this type of hot ground and produce a clear signal for nuggets less than or equal to 0.10 grams.
If someone in the know says Axiom should perform better than this, maybe I do have a dud.
Yesterday I was convinced it was a dud but this morning showed that on moderate ground it operates as intended and dare I say I preferred it to the 6000, particularly when the hot rocks came out to play.
The abilities are obviously there, just not on hot ground, possibly only in the case of this particular unit.
Any suggestions welcomed

Edit:
Some will say, use a DD.
Tried that yesterday. Makes everything better to a certain extent but still drops out the 0.11 nugget.
Mainly, I need a mono to work because I poke the front of it under bushes (especially spinifex) and I get maybe 10% of my gold in those locations that others miss.
Rohan at Nugget Finder (LEGEND) knew I was having 6000 coils fail so he sent me a 12 x 7 test coil for the 6000. Changed the whole 6000 experience.
First day I went over a patch outside of Cue, got almost 3 grams previously missed because I couldn't get the standard 11" round mono close enough to the base of trees/bushes or in between rocks.
This year that extra 10% was worth over $10,000 in my total weight for the year. Cant be without that ability.
And as much as I like the Garrett coplaner coils with the super hot spot in the center, a almost dead front edge means its a no go. 

7 minutes ago, Norvic said:

Folks take note of the above and all the other threads Steve has posted in, he may be a dinosaur like me but he knows the go. Axiom has Hyer Mode sensitivity, it has many user settings not like the 6K which has auto sensitivity in its 2 Auto modes, also as Steve has pointed out Fine is roughly equivalent to normal on the 6K, Z etc and normal on the Axiom is roughly equivalent to difficult on the 6K, Z etc. (Note I said roughly). Without beating about the bush, what I`m saying, the Axiom is made by Garrett not by Minelab thus things may appear to be alien to you, spend time understanding Steves posts, experimenting with the settings of the Axiom and you`ll be rewarded. Take no notice and you`ll be disappointed, frustrated etc etc.

Absolutely, totally agree.

If it wasn’t for Steve’s posts about the sensitivity change I would have introduced Axion to a sandlewood tree by now.

6 minutes ago, HardPack said:

Gone Bush,

Let us know the outcome with the Axiom. 

on a side note:
Have you tried the forum’s classified section, the therapy may help provided you can get past the night sweats. So far it ain’t working for me but fortunately I still drink. Perhaps Steve should start a new forum discussion section entitled “Compulsive Addictive Detector Pre-Order Disfunction”. He could shorten the title to CAD-POD for ease of locating while under the influence of the disorder. 

HardPack,

I’m ok with my dick not working but my detector has to work!

Believe it or not, I did trim down last year and sold half a dozen.
Home for me is a very historic area surrounded by literally hundreds of potential detecting locations, many being goldfields.

I travel all over Australia on the hunt and this year have been in every state, either on gold, artefacts or beach coins/jewellery so each detector gets a go.
Love them all. Each one has its own personality and strengths/weakness’s.
Frequently I will go over the same site (like a Cobb & Co. changeover station) with several detectors and get something new each time. 
Gold is fun but predominantly to pay the bills.
Relics and their history is what gets me excited.
Part of going to Axiom was to also go after relics.

‘Please don’t mention ‘that section’ of the forums again. The c word makes me cry.

‘Will post results of tomorrow. Might make a video if I can figure out how to put the film in.

Not your fault mate, luck of the draw.
It is what it is. Can’t tell you how desperately I want Axiom to be my go to PI out here.
Still think it should come with WR-1 in the box or at least Garrett Australia stock it so I don’t have to order it from USA.
Sound quality is 100 times better through ZX pros.

Funnily enough the only PI I have not had issues with was the 7000 when the standard coils were dying.
Actually, not true. Garrett sea hunter mk II also has been perfect from day one but rarely used.
4500 (oz built) had bad pot, 4800 a nightmare and 6000’s you know about, 

Have CTX3030, Equinox 800, Original Deus, Whites something or other (yellow? 4 years old Never use it), Tesoro Vaquero Black, Tesoro Tejon, Nokta Impact, Makro Racer, Makro Racer 2, Nokta Makro Anfibio and a few more and have never had a failure with a VLF machine.

I know. Pills and injections haven’t worked so trying hypnotherapy next.

Hi Mate,

Tried everything. Normal, large, tracking on/off, speed adjustments, factory resets you name we tried it.
Just hopelessly noisy no matter what we try if sensitivity is above pretty much 3.
Going from fine to normal does make a noticeable difference but only briefly before yet another ground balance is required.
After reset we get a few minutes (maybe 2-3 minutes)of somewhat ok operation then it drops its bundle again.
Forgot to mention, while this is happening we hear clicking in the headphones in time with the ground noise almost like mini relays turning on and off? Weird.

Tomorrow in Coolgardie (45 klms west of Kalgoorlie) we will give it one more try.
If it’s still shit I guess on the phone to Garrett for a replacement.
Hoped it would be a different quality experience than we have had with the 6000.
Already sold one 6000 and replaced it with Axiom.
Spoke about doing same with second 6000 but after this I don’t think so!

On 11/24/2022 at 4:47 AM, Steve Herschbach said:

All the gold I found on my last trip to Australia was found with the 11" DD coil, which has the same setup internally.

Steve,

Sorry, misquoted you.
Will play with it again tomorrow. If no better will have to assume exactly that, faulty unit.
Disappointing. Reliability was the reason I bought it given the issues with both our 6000’s.
The second one was DOA. Required a 16 hour round trip to get replaced.

2 hours ago, peterinaust said:

MMMM sounds disappointing. Been following the Axiom been very interested so far. And first negative report so far, maybe a fault. Hopefully a good outcome.

Hi Peter,

Not sure.
Have not yet heard of anyone here in the west getting small gold with it (like 0.10 or smaller) except Steve H but noted that he mentioned he only used the 11 x 7 DD while he was in Meekatharra.
Did he have issues with the mono coil here?
Is WA to ground hot for it? Faulty coil/control box?
No idea at this stage.
Was certain issue was PEBDAS but after a combined total equivalent of two days and almost a dozen different locations with same results can’t help but wonder.
Going to another patch near Coolgardie tomorrow so will try again………
If it needs a DD to work here the cost of that will bring it up to just about the same as a 6000 and given there will be no hot edge like a mono, poking the front of the coil under a bush is out the window.
Last year was an awesome year thanks to the 6000. Just over 2000 nuggets with an educated guess 500-700 being 0.20 and less. That’s not something I can afford to give up on if Axiom doesn’t perform as good as a 6000 on small gold here.
Unfortunately the 6000 is not perfect either though. I went through 5 mono coil failures and never wore out a skid plate!
Two were I’m told cable faults and three progressively got noisier and noisier until they were unusable.
A two hour drive into the bush only to have your coil fail certainly expands your vocabulary.
Anyway will see if Steve H has any suggestions and see what happens tomorrow 

Hi Steve,

You mentioned that when you were in Meekatharra you only used the 11 x 7 DD.
Any particular reason?
Did you try the mono at all?

I was in Cue (120 klms south of you) using a 6000 (mono coil) and getting good gold as in the pictures I DM’d you.
Now I’m back in Kalgoorlie and today we drove about 90 klms north east to a tenement that has been good to us in the past using 6000’s and mono coils.
Axiom and 11 x 7 mono drove me insane.
Ground balance was difficult at best and on several occasions simply would not happen.
Literally scream it’s head off on the up and down while trying to ground balance and only a factory reset would bring it back.
Sensitivity on 2 (nothing higher was usable without ground balance every 3 steps), fine mode, tracking off.
Also we tested using the usual 0.11 gram piece been using for years.
Sensitivity at 3-4 had the Axiom running just bearable but could not hear the test nugget sitting on the surface.
Crank sensitivity up to 5-6 and you could hear the target in amongst the noise but it was unusable due to instability and noise.
Literally ground balance every step at this setting.
We both had a crack and tried many different settings all the while remembering your comments on the higher gain in production units. This Axion defaults to sensitivity 4 so has the higher gain.
Tried different speed, mode, threshold settings. 👎🏻

Tried the DD. Quieter and smoother (as expected) but couldn’t hear the test nugget under 6 sensitivity, like the mono but pretty much unusable at that sensitivity.
6000 hits the test nugget without issue.

Don’t know what else to try. The 6000 operated normally (flat out, threshold turned back on) and we also had a 4500 that was a bit noisier than normal however could be tuned quiet enough to use and find gold.
Starting to wonder if I have a dud coil or unit.
Would have spent two full days now in 11 different locations with same results. Frustration.
Videos and comments on good old Spewtube show Warren and the NQX crew and you (and others) getting nice small 0.10 gram and smaller nuggets at Tibooburra and Victoria however I have zero confidence my Axiom will ever do that in WA.

Getting nowhere fast here.

Been trying to sort it (in case PEBDAS) but run out of things to try.

On 11/24/2022 at 12:35 AM, Steve Herschbach said:

Last summer I shot a video with the Garrett crew, with a concise set of tips for helping new Axiom owners get started, and a focus on nugget hunting. In that video it was very short and easy. Turn detector on, and while using default settings, set sensitivity to max, and a few quick pumps to manually ground balance. EMI cancel as an added option if needed. There video is below, and still very much worth watching. But things have changed dramatically with the settings, so I now have a new set of recommendations.

Simply put, the Axiom went on steroids after my feedback from my Australia trip. Overall gain and sensitivity were boosted dramatically, and the ground balance system further improved. Before, you could pretty much run the detector at full out sensitivity anytime, anyplace. Now, you most definitely cannot do that! I hope my old video does not end up hurting some new buyer experiences, and hopefully an updated version will be released. Regardless, you will be getting far more detailed information in this post.

The sensitivity control has eight settings, and used to have a default of 6. Before, you could just go to 8 and call it good. Now, the new default setting is 4, which is in reality even higher than the prototype setting of 6. There has been a very large jump in gain, with the highest settings pushing the hardware to the limits.

The sensitivity control is basically a post processing audio boost. It increases not only target signals, but all audio signals. The system is designed to try and treat target audio preferentially, but the fact remains that increasing the sensitivity control adds more “noise” in the form of ground feedback, hot rocks, and EMI. The number one goal of new owners while learning the Axiom should be smooth, quiet operation. I promise you that you will not get that if you run the sensitivity too high!

My basic recommendation is new owners is to stay at 4 until you learn the detector. Do not do what the video says and go to max!! Experienced PI operators will probably be happier at 5 or 6. That’s subjective, and the pros will stay put, or go lower, or higher. But in general I found 6 worked well for me, but remember, I like running on the hot and noisy side.

Settings 7 and 8 should be in bright red, like the red zone on your cars RPM gauge. You should only go there if you know exactly what you are doing. These settings are not intended for general operation, but for user indicated specific situations. They will make the machine noisier, and so the operators ability to use ALL the other settings, and the proper coil, will determine how useful these redline settings are.

For new operators, new owners, everything depends on EMI and ground conditions, but look for a quiet, stable setting. It is a fact that target signals usually drop off slower than the “noise” signals, and by eliminating the noise, you will make targets more distinct, and easier to hear. A test target can be extremely helpful in adjusting the control. Make the target as distinct as possible to your own ear. Turning the sensitivity up will make the target sound off louder, but go too high, and you will get lots of other signals. Trained ears can separate these signals from target signals, which tend to have a distinct sound all their own. But to new users, it’s all just noise, and everything might sound just like a target. False signals, that tire the operator with mental processing, and possibly holes dug where nothing exists. Time wasted. Many operators will find they prefer the setting to be at moderate levels, with the detector basically silent, unless a genuine target sounds off. Some pros will prefer this also. There is no right or wrong in all this, no magic canned settings. Different people use different methods, often with similar results.

The new default setting of 4 is what would be considered a “safe” setting. It may very well suit some pros quite well, Some experts prefer quiet operation, and so may find 4 or no more than 5 to be their preferred settings. Some may tolerate noise very well, and choose 6 instead. In general 6 worked very well for me. People who know me, know I like pushing the sensitivity very high. Axiom is a detector I like, because it makes me find my limits, and even I am finding out the need to finesse the setting more than I can with other machines.

So back to sensitivity settings 7 and 8, the Redline Settings. What I mention below is very important if you attempt to use them. Do not expect automatically that you just can and all will be well. Going right to these settings may do nothing but make you unhappy. You need to understand the machine and how all the settings and coils interplay to get the most out of the top end. However, even the default setting of 4 will benefit from these tips.

For instance, if you are in an area free of EMI, higher sensitivity is more available. Less variable ground is more amenable to high sensitivity. DD coils can tolerate higher sensitivity. Small coils tolerate high sensitivity more than large coils.

The other settings now matter a lot more. Before, the machine ran well with all the others settings at default. Now, they will come into play far more often, and you need to know what you are doing with them.

The Speed Control is absolutely critical for operation at the highest sensitivity level. The default Medium Speed is fine for general operation, but if you are pushing the sensitivity up, Slow will run quieter, and you will absolutely benefit as an operator by also slowing down yourself. VLF users go too fast, period, for general PI operation. If you are patch hunting or just desire to cover ground, run the defaults. But if you are really wanting max performance on a hunted patch, nothing will benefit you more than just going slower! Coil to the ground, low and slow, can’t say it enough. The Slow Speed mode is made for this type of hunting, and it really helps with higher sensitivity levels to use the Slow setting, and move at a crawl.

The Timing setting is another great example. There are four timings, Fine (Default), Normal, Large, and Salt. In general, each successive one is introducing longer pulse delays, which tends to lower overall sensitivity to ground, hot rocks, and smaller targets. The Salt setting eliminates salt signals, but eliminates small gold signals also. See this link for details.

Before, I could run Fine Mode at full sensitivity of 8 almost anywhere. Now, Normal becomes a more viable alternative setting, as it tolerates a higher sensitivity setting. Each successive mode can lower overall sensitivity, but can now be offset more by running a higher sensitivity control setting. It’s very much like a salt and pepper thing, and has to be adjusted to taste. The key thing to do here is not forget about the alternative modes. Again, a test target, like a small nugget or small piece of lead, can really help here. Don’t just stick with Fine Mode. You might discover that Normal, with the sensitivity one notch higher then what you were using with Fine, works better in your particular location, especially if larger gold is the main goal. Dry beach hunters and relic hunters in particular may benefit from Normal or Large, but with higher sensitivity levels than would be used with Fine.

In general, both EMI canceling and proper ground balance are more important at high sensitivity levels, and both may need to be done more often, depending where you are. Hot rocks get boosted at high sensitivity, and the Garrett hot rock window mode will be more important than ever, for dealing with those oddball rocks.

To repeat, coils matter more at the highest settings, with DD coils in general tolerating higher sensitivity.

The background threshold tone will increase at high sensitivity levels. Here is a weird trick people can experiment with. Run sensitivity 7 or 8, but run threshold at -8 or -9. This suppresses the threshold entirely, but with the sensitivity control maxed you might get some breakthrough chirps. So sensitivity 7 or 8, threshold -8 or -9. Any combination of those might be the magic. It makes the Axion dead quiet, but get over a target, and BANG! you will know something is there. Could be the ultimate setting for a rank newbie, making the Axiom act almost more like a silent search VLF. But you pros may discover it has uses also so do give it a try.

I’ll end with my favorite example of my using the highest sensitivity setting of 8. Shallow ground, tiny gold. 11” DD coil, Fine Mode, Sensitivity 8, Slow Speed, and move at a crawl investigating the tiniest of sounds. It might be too noisy for you, if so, lower that sensitivity.

And to wrap up, that’s the answer in general. If you think the Axiom is too noisy, if you are getting too much in the way of false signals, EMI, erratic operation, you name it - LOWER THE SENSITIVITY SETTING! I’m serious, if you don’t want to get a “what are you, stupid” type response don’t complain the Axiom is noisy. It’s only noisy if you make it noisy, and I promise you can. That’s by design, that’s how you find the edge. Nothing is more irritating than people who complain about problems they are creating for themselves. Lower the sensitivity!

Look at it like this. The Axiom is your car. The sensitivity setting is your gas pedal. Would you want a car that you could drive with the pedal to the floor all the time? Set to be safe on corners and rough roads. Can’t go faster than 35mph no matter what? That’s the way a lot of detectors get designed. Or do you want the car to be able to go to 120mph, even though that’s not safe, or even legal? Do you want passing power? Do you want to be able to open it up on the freeway and maybe speed a little? The Axiom sensitivity control is like the gas pedal on a sports car. Press it down too far when you should not, you will crash and burn. The top end is there for the rare circumstances where they make sense, or for those operators who can run at higher, noisier levels, and do the mental processing required to pick target signals out of the noise.

So one last time, and repeat after me, when in doubt, if something is wrong - lower the sensitivity!!

I do hope this helps some people get started out right. The Axiom is a wonderful detector with the right driver behind the wheel. Take your time to learn it properly before you go racing. If you do so you will learn to appreciate it like I have. Thank you Garrett for making this happen, and for letting me take my swings at you, and taking them with good cheer. The final result is better because of the effort. 

The original tips video, with now obsolete settings tip for the sensitivity control.

Garrett Axiom Quick Facts, Owner's Manual, Etc.

 

Hi Steve,

Bad luck I couldn’t buy you a beer in Meekatharra but that’s how it goes sometimes.
Glad you got home safe.

Questions, if I may. Have my Axiom now and some things aren’t adding up.
First, are all production units ‘on steroids’ as you mentioned or did some get shipped as a less powerful version?
Second, any idea why a 0.11 gram nugget sitting on the ground would be very hard to hear under the coil but very easy to hear while being waved over the back of the coil?
Spent 4 hours today messing about and could not resolve this. Three different locations miles apart with very different ground but same result.
Otherwise liking it.
 

You are right though, the headphones are shit. Sound like a speaker behind a blanket.
Dont remember that on the evaluation unit I played with?
Unfortunately Garrett Australia says the WR-1 1/4” is no longer available!!! 🤬
Have to try and order one from over there so I can use decent headphones and be wireless.

Say hello to Condor (Steve) and Dimitri for me 👍

Ray

I actually asked for it to be made that way to suit the endless salt and pepper we have over here in Western Australia.
Rarely now do I dig more than 200mm (8 bald eagles) to recover a nugget and the ground is mostly relatively easy digging laterite gravels so it is more scratching than swinging with force hence the 25mm (one bald eagle) offset on the point really has no effect on how I use it.
This offset means pointed side is 300mm (12 bald eagles) long so with two scrapes I can clear a 400mm (16 bald eagles) wide area to give me a decent swing with the standard 11” mono coil the 6000 comes with (and the Nugget Finder 16 x 10 that’s coming) or one scrape gives enough clear ground to swing my Nugget Finder 12” x 7”.
Then swing coil to bring up and relocate target, scratch up couple of bald eagles and flip onto short side to scrape the gravel out.
If it gets deeper than maybe 4 bald eagles I scratch out the gravel with the 2 bald eagle wide end.
Even in schist I use the pointed end as a gentle tap tap and pry rather than get a run up otherwise the nuggets tend to just fall further into the crevice or ping off into the heavens never to be seen again.
Having that much clear ground is not always necessary however with almost every piece of dirt here having had many many coils over it, being able to quickly clear the ground and determine between that faint sound being a target that needs digging or hearing damage from Led Zeppelin at full volume on the way out to the patch is critical to getting a good nugget count.
When you need 5 grams a day to pay the bills and the average nugget is now around 0.25 of a gram, that’s 20 nuggets to find each day in between the junk.
Also, walking 6-10 miles a day patch hunting I wanted something around the kilogram with a 600mm handle that will sit comfortably in a pick holder on my hip and easily cope with 99% of the holes I dig while providing very quick clearance of rubble on the ground.
Covering that amount of distance in one day usually has me digging well over a hundred holes and just today I collected 54 shotgun pellets.

If it comes down to it I can still dig a deeper hole in harder ground with it but that is very rare these days.
Its all about quantity of sub grammers now with anything over 10 grams weeks apart instead of hours like back in the good old days.
Having used it for two solid days now I am more than happy with how quickly I can scrape a clear area, have a decent listen and decide to scratchy scratchy the ground or scratchy scratchy my balls and move on.

Me calling it Hodan style really only relates to the head and therefore scoop end only being 2” wide rather than the normal 4-5” scoop width most Australian picks with a triangular shape have.
This makes it sit against my body better (no jab in the side from the wide scoop end) and I can easily wrap my hand around the head to poke the magnet on the end of the handle into a rubble pile. Lighter too.
No doubt Dan at Stumpy picks could make an exact replica of the Hodan style if desired rather than my retard version 🤪
Hope I didn’t offend John by attaching his Hodan monicker to this thing.

On 9/3/2022 at 10:54 PM, Steve Herschbach said:

Still using a Hodan pick to this day, featured in my Axiom instructional videos! I like a hoe end for digging loose tailing piles, but for long days of carrying the pick, and less soft digging, the Hodan fits the bill for me. Or any pick made like it. The secret is good steel - I can chop a rock in half with mine, and barely touch the steel.

 

So my Hodan recreation by Stumpy Picks arrived yesterday and it is almost too nice to use!
Quality of everything including the handle but especially the welding is the best I have ever seen.
Took it out today for a test run and broke an 8” quartz rock in two with not even a mark on the edge. 
See picture. My Keene pick is AR500 steel and this one is Hardox which looks like it will be more durable than the Keene.
Could not be happier.

Also bought the small stainless steel dolly pot. Another fantastic product with workmanship far beyond anything I have seen on prospecting tools before. Like jewellers tools. Just amazing.
 

Anyone who wants a Hodan style pick can now get one again!

Thanks to those who helped me with measurements and especially Dan at Stumpy Picks for going to the trouble of making these available again.

On 9/5/2022 at 1:04 AM, GB_Amateur said:

Mine is 300 mm long by 50 mm at its widest.  (That's about 12" x 2" in superior units.  😁)  Top opening for the handle is  25.4 mm X 32.6 mm (minor and major axes of an ~ellipse).

Thank you! 😁

On 8/13/2022 at 9:32 AM, geof_junk said:

This is from ....prospectingaustralia.... 

 

That’s not a bad ratio.
Here in WA they should sell detectors as a package deal with a 12 gauge and reloader 😊

Well, I’m on my sixth 11” coil.

Two had connection failures and three went very noisy.
And no, I’m not a coil basher. Got my 6000 May 2021 and still have not worn out a skid plate.
Minelab have been great with replacing the coils but still disappointing.
Currently using a Nugget Finder 12 x 7 test/development coil and it kills the standard coil.
Good friends here in Cue bought a new 6000 11 days ago and just had to drive 8 hours each way to the Minelab dealer to get it replaced.
Overall, while the 6000 is an excellent detector and has doubled my gold find’s compared to the 7000, quality of the machine is, in my experience, poor.
Manufacturing and quality control in Malaysia maybe not the best idea for anything other than profit margin.

So, a couple of months ago I got to play with a developmental Axiom for two hours. Loved it.
Would I sell my 6000 and buy one?
Unlikely.
Will I buy one? Probably.
Different tools have different uses and, at least for me, there are time’s when an Axiom will out perform a 6000 and vice versa.
Getting gold is the game and the Axiom, in my limited use experience, appeared to be much better than the 6000 on wet/damp and hot ground using mono coils.
I also like the fact that I can have a small double D coil, something not yet available for the 6000, if conditions are really bad.
Because I am severely retarded and now make my living from prospecting, good gold areas are usually more than an hour and commonly 2 hours drive away so I need to arrive there knowing that no matter the conditions I have everything available to maximise my chances of finding gold. Therefore an Axiom and several coils will definitely find it’s way into my truck.

Steve, thank you for your post. 
Being 55 myself I must admit to being tempted to go with just an Axiom and selling the 6000, particularly after using one.
And your input to Garrett certainly weighed on my mind.
But, here in WA, both machines have their place.

You mentioned coming to Australia?
It would be a distinct honour to meet and maybe share some patches with you, if you don’t already have a full schedule.
Unfortunately my knowledge on how this forum works is limited but I would assume you have the ability to either message or email me if this holds any interest for you.

Mmmm…..had a play with an Axiom for a couple of hours last month and while I didn’t do any specific tests, the cordless headphone audio seemed fine.
Nothing to make me think I would want anything different?

Was just handed to me ready to go so don’t know the ins and outs of how it works but no complaints about response time or audio quality. 
Easily on par with my 6000.

Unfortunately I too went through 3 sets of Pro Sonic until I eventually got one that would work, then I bought a 7000 and never used the Pro Sonic again!

Don’t know of a retail outlet that would have them. I ordered mine online.

You should also use the memory foam buds, not the rubber ones.
They cut out some of the external noise.
Use a size one bigger than you might find initially comfortable because they take a few minutes to form into your ear shape.
We both made the mistake of using a too small bud in the beginning.

We originally bought beyerdynamic in the same format but they were not LL and the sound was more than half a swing behind!
This post, the comments re low latency being phased out and the fact they are currently on special and $60.00 cheaper than what I paid has me ordering another set!
Couldn’t be without them now so will alternate each set each day so battery doesn’t go stale.

I use these by Creative:

https://au.creative.com/p/headphones-headsets/aurvana-trio-wireless

aptx -LL so they are just as responsive as the standard Minelab headphones, huge battery life, super easy and quick to pair to the 6000 and have memory foam ear buds as well as the uncomfortable rubber type. On special at the moment too for $99.95.

Getting hot here in WA soon so needed something that allows me to wear a wide brim hat and fly net.
These work great for me.

By the way, my buddy and I run the 6000 flat out (auto 2) with threshold on no matter where we are.
Runs awesome, even here in the Cue, WA area.
Just turn your headphones up flat out as well (about 13 clicks on the + button after turn on) and keep the detector volume at 3 or at a pinch 4 if it’s windy. We also have the above Creative earbuds flat out.
The targets are easily heard. Sometimes gets a little noisy on really hot ground but a noise cancel and ground balance brings it back. Target sound jumps out at you.
We also factory reset every turn on including smoko and lunch breaks.
Last year we were using lower sensitivity. This year, running flat out, we went back to patches we detected with the 6000 on lower sensitivity last year and found nuggets we couldn’t previously hear.

22 hours ago, Steve Herschbach said:

Still using a Hodan pick to this day, featured in my Axiom instructional videos! I like a hoe end for digging loose tailing piles, but for long days of carrying the pick, and less soft digging, the Hodan fits the bill for me. Or any pick made like it. The secret is good steel - I can chop a rock in half with mine, and barely touch the steel.

 

Steve, would you mind measuring your almost new Hodan pick’s head and posting the dimensions?

Preferably in millimetres and not bald eagles 🤪😉

On 9/27/2020 at 6:47 AM, Steve Herschbach said:

Well, I'm glad to hear that!  I still have four of his picks; in fact I am putting a new handle on one today. #3,4,9, and 10 below are all Hodan picks.

Not sure if this is the right place for this so apologies if it isn’t. Not retarded, just not all that savvy on forum stuff.

Concerning Hodan Picks.

Had one myself for years but unfortunately last year it was swiped and due to the obvious reasons, no replacement is available.
Gutted. The Hodan was the perfect pick for the GPX 6000 with the 11” coil. 😢
Approached pick manufacturers here in Australia and their eyes just glazed over when asked to do anything different to their normal design.
However, it would appear that was Gods way of making me wait for the right manufacturer.
Looks like Dan at Stumpy Picks (one of the best welders I have ever seen) is going to make me a Hodan recreation.
He is currently doing the research to make sure the materials are correct and will stand the test of time.
We discussed US based prospectors who might also want a new Hodan pick.
Dan could ship you guys the head only to save biggly on freight then you could fit a local purchased handle.

If anyone is interested Dans details are as follows:

https://stumpypicks.company.site/
stumpypicks@gmail.com

Hope this helps.

If someone could put this post where it actually should be I would be most appreciative.

17 minutes ago, AussieMatt said:

Yep that's correct.

I see in another thread yours seemed better today?

Yes, after a reset and a play.
Ground was not covered in iron stone pebbles today.
Definitely PEWOLOE me thinks.

Learn something new every day! 

3 hours ago, AussieMatt said:

It definitely doesn't sound right.

I'm a coil scrubber, although only lightly compared to some, & I'm not having that problem or any other touch/bump sensitivity problems.

The only time I've experienced false type signals has been when on a bit of a slope & I've inadvertently lifted, lowered or swept the coil too quickly. Settles as soon as I've got better coil control again. It's happened with other machines too in particular the SDC.

So, you scrub your coil a bit and your 6000 does not bounce the threshold off the moon?

Just now, geof_junk said:

Not saying this is your problem, I had a similar problem years ago and it turn out to fault shielding connection. I would see if you can use another coil from a friend or dealer and see if you have the same problem. Get the coil check under Warranty if the other coil solve the problem. 

Been watching some Youtube videos and mine seems way noisier on the ground than those in the videos.
Just the slightest touch on the ground or even scraping over a rock sends it off the planet.
Can bump bush's and branches on the ground as much as I like without issue.

Raining here so cant do much about trying different things but when it fines up tomorrow I will go back to the shop and borrow their demo machine coil and try that.

Bought it from Finders Keepers in Kalgoorlie.
They are, in my opinion, the best prospecting shop I have ever used.

Hi Sheppo,

Should have mentioned, I’m in Kalgoorlie/Leonora/Cue region so the ground is pretty hectic.

My Z barely makes a peep even if I scrub the coil over the entire swing.

DD seems better but my injury precludes my extended use of that coil.
Thanks for your reply, at least I now know it’s probably normal.

What I wouldn’t give for a 11 x 9 DD that weighs the same as the standard 11” coil!