Tahts-a-dats-ago

Great insight. For me, one of the most important factors when it comes to choosing a detector is the fun factor. The Apex has it in spades.

I like the Apex quite a lot. Very good build quality. Easy to swing. Great headphones. Decent performance (better than I had expected) and I can spend a minute or two showing someone (who has never used a metal detector) the settings and they don't feel like they're tasked with programming the space shuttle. They just hunt and have fun.

That is where Garrett nailed the Apex (as far as I am concerned) - it is fun.

That is a factor that is difficult to quantify, but knowing what I know about the Apex, I'd buy one in a heartbeat if I didn't already own one.

More than fair in my opinion.

As someone who was a longtime lurker prior to becoming a member, I can say that such rules would not have bothered me in the slightest. I look at this forum as an opportunity to learn more about a hobby that I very much enjoy, and (on occasion) share my thoughts when I think they might possibly prove helpful to someone.

While I think the talk of the Xterra Pro killing the Simplex is decidedly premature, I must admit that the videos of the Xterra's beach performance is intriguing.  For me the $269 price is a bit misleading though, as that is the price without wireless headphones or the smaller coil. Add those two items to the list and the price is somewhere around the $500 range. That puts the Xterra (price wise) in proximity to the Legend, the Equinox 600 and the Equinox 700. At that price (for me) the other options are far more promising.

Of course, that isn't counting the bonus of using Equinox coils on the Xterra - a strong selling point for those of us who own an Equinox and extra coils. For me (Equinox 800 owner) that still requires the additional expense of the headphones - so the cost (of the Xterra) would be somewhere in the $400 range. Again - a price point that favors the Legend and/or the Equinox 600 (for me, anyway).

All that and we still don't know the details of the new Simplex models. 

IF - that's a big IF - Nokta put a beach mode (from the Legend) on the mid-range and the Ultra version of their new Simplex models and marketed those models as having SMF capabilities in the beach mode... all while allowing the user to select (in the other modes) a frequency (say 5, 15, 20 are the choices) ...

The Simplex Lite - a single frequency turn on and go machine. No headphones, no complexity at all. Just a simple, easy to use machine. Price point around $175 - $200 and I'd buy one just as a loaner machine.

The Simplex BT - No headphones, but you can add whatever BT headphones you'd like. A few more tuning options, but not as many as the Ultra. Price point around $270 and the Xterra Pro faces stiff competition.

The Simplex Ultra - package it with wireless headphones and another (smaller coil). More modes, more tuning options, and a price point of $400. I would buy that machine, but if the price was higher than $400, I would find the Legend to be a better deal (I own a Legend).

Personally, I would be very surprised if the new Simplex machines aren't very competitive (price wise and performance wise) to the Xterra Pro. Nokta just has to sharpen the pencil - something they've been very good at thus far. 

The one thing I am absolutely sure about is - competition is a wonderful thing as far as we consumers are concerned.

Steve,

I don't post very often, but I find your forum to be so informative that I'd gladly pay a membership fee should you decided to take that route.

Excellent news.

Looking forward to the new update.

Hope you have a great holiday Dilek.

Well done review.

Very helpful.

What happened to your wife is horrible. I'm at a loss for words, but I feel great sorrow for what happened to the two of you.

Just now, Rick N. MI said:

Were you using the 11" coil or 6" coil? 

It sounds it ran very well in the iron.

The 11 inch coil.

It did great. Better than I would have thought it would.

I first went there with my ORX, but once I got there I could not get the ORX to pair with the headphones (don't know why it wouldn't work) so I went home and got the Legend. I had the 11 inch coil on the Legend because I had gone to the beach yesterday. I was annoyed with the ORX and didn't want to take the minute or so to change the coil on my Legend.

I'll definitely go with the 6 inch coil the next time I go to that location.

BTW - got home and tried the ORX again. The headphones paired right up. Maybe it just wasn't meant to be an ORX day?

I made it a point to pay attention to the ferro-check today. I went to what is probably my most difficult permission. This location has had human activity (not counting natives) dating back to the late 1600's. Over time there has been a glass house (glass slag all over the property), a blacksmith, a slaughterhouse, a timber mill, a feed mill, a junk yard, and a mechanic shop (he worked on boats and vehicles). The current owner (a friend) grew up on the property - his father had the mechanic shop and what was essentially a junk yard (scrap metal, vehicles, engines, etc..). That's the history that I am aware of.

The soil is fairly mild (2-3 bars on the Deus mineral meter) but so chock full of bits and pieces of various metals that I don't bother trying to ground balance. The metal pieces run the gamut - square nails, iron bits, brass, copper, tin, aluminum, etc.. There is so much trash in the ground that I don't believe I've ever dug a target that didn't have some sort of metal trash in the hole.

The area that I hunted today (maybe 15 X 30 feet) must have been a burn pile, or perhaps a building had burned down at some point in the past. Around 6 inches (give/take) down it is clear that everything was burned, and in sections there is a lot of what looks like lump charcoal (forget what it ID's at, but it gives a nice mid tone) 4+ inches below the surface. There is a heavy layer of fist-sized and smaller rocks ranging from 4-6 inches below the surface over most of that small area.

I never try for depth on this permission, because all the metal trash makes depth an impossible thing. 

I dug every target that gave a good tone (even 1-way)(provided the target isn't large) as I always do at this location. But this time I paid attention to the ferro-check. I never had a signal that didn't show at least 1 bar in the ferro-check meter, but that's because there was some sort of [ferrous] metal trash in with the "good" targets. I say "good" because a number of those "good" targets were brass, copper, or aluminum. I did dig some targets that the ferro-check filled halfway or better - all were ferrous junk. They were, at best, very iffy tones to begin with.

From what I saw today, the ferro-check is a pretty effective tool down to a depth of 5 inches or so. I didn't dig anything deeper so I can't really say just how deep the ferro-check can be effective.

I continue to be impressed with the capabilities of the Legend. In spite of the claims made by some, it does very well in trashy sites.

So why do I bother with a location that has that kind of metal trash?

There's silver in there. 

Today's take, after about 3 hours of hunting, was 3 Wheats, 2 copper memorials, and a Merc. I also dug a small compact that dates from 1920 - 1925. The brass and copper items were donated to a friend who saves that stuff for recycling at the local scrapyard.

So far I really like 60 tones. I had assumed that 6 tones would be my choice (with tone breaks set where I prefer) but once I tried 60 tones I haven't changed back.

To my ears the Legend is one of the best machines I've used when it comes to telling crown caps from other targets. The crown caps (so far anyway) just sound terrible - even if they ID as a good target (coin). The newer Corona crown caps often ID somewhere around 49-50 and the ID tends to be steady, but the sound is really off (verses a coin). I usually forget all about looking at Ferro check, so I can't really say how well it works at identifying crown caps.

Smashed screw caps (aluminum) are far more difficult (for me) to identify. The tone is close enough to a coin (usually 41-42 ID) that I can't tell for sure that the target isn't a coin. The size is close enough (to coin size) that while they often seem to be a tad too big (for a coin) I'm just not sure, so I dig them anyway. 

Park, M1, 60 tones with the low side at the lowest pitch and the high side at the highest pitch (my hearing picks up on the higher tones more readily). I did raise the iron volume with version 1.07 - I now run it at 3.

Jeff's list of target ID's is pretty much dead on in my experience so far.

No problems loading 1.07 for me. 

I have not used version 1.07 in the field. Yet.

Hi Dilek,

Thanks for all that you do. I think NM nailed it with the Legend. Great build quality, great performance, and a great price.

My wish list consists of:

Make it easier to discern which feature group is selected in the settings menu. Perhaps the selected grouping could be highlighted, or the square filled in with a light gray, so it is easily differentiated from the other boxes (selections). My eyes aren't what they used to be, and it is difficult for me to tell which box has been selected. 

Mineralization meter - displayed while ground balancing would be great.

I like the idea of a VCO option (tones) as well.

Mid-size (7" - 8") concentric coil.

Wireless (bluetooth) lightweight (summer use) headphones or ear plugs. In the case of ear plugs, I'd prefer the kind that hangs over the ear. 

Coils that are already in development (9 inch and 5X9).

10 hours ago, Tometusns said:

Here’s something for you to try.  (If you’re not already doing it) When picking a target out of trash make a mental note of the good sounds location as you go around the target .  You should be able to see the spot it’s coming from after going around it. Might make two or three trips around…they’re short trips. lol  Don’t use the pin point just dig the spot you hear the good sound at. I think you’ll be surprised at how easy it is to locate it without using the pin point feature. 
 A good example of what I’m referring to would be to watch super freak going around a target in trash then just digging it right out. I know he’s visually seeing that targets location while swinging over it as he makes his circle. Watch his coil movement as he locates the good sound. Hope that helps.  It really does work. Good luck and HH!

Yep. That method is far more effective in trashy spots. I think it is faster too. The problem I had was the size of the coil (11 inch). There were times where the multiple targets (under the coil) made it very difficult to discern exactly where the good target was. I have no doubt that the 6 inch coil will work very well in such situations.

I didn't make it to the beach today, but I did manage to get back to the sports complex for a short 1- & 1/2-hour hunt. The baseball fields were in use, so I went to the far end of the complex and concentrated on an area behind one of the soccer field goals. I used the same settings as I had the day prior.

Apparently, soccer players/fans are big fans of beer because the area was absolutely littered with crown caps (beer) and pull tabs (the square type) that had been ripped off the can. There were crown caps (and tabs) everywhere - the top of the ground was thick with them, and every swing of the coil was a testimony to the rather impressive recovery speed of the Legend. The 11-inch coil was not the ideal choice, but I stuck it out and learned a few things in the process.

The Legend handles crown caps exceptionally well. They sound horrible (60 tones) - and most of them do not give an ID that could fool someone cherry picking coins. Except the Corona crown caps - they give an ID that suggests the target is a dime or sometimes a quarter. The tone is horrible though - making it obvious that the target is not a dime or a quarter. Ferrous check gave another hint that the target wasn't a good one - with 2-3 bars (or more) filling up on the ferrous side. I'm not sure how deep the target can be and still have ferrous check be effective.

Square tabs sound great, but they give an ID of 29 (most of the time) or a digit above/below. Someone cherry picking coins with the Legend can easily avoid square tabs.

On several occasions I really struggled to pinpoint a good target that was in a bed of trash. Twice I had to re-dig plugs because I had missed the good target (coin) so badly that it couldn't be recovered otherwise. I assign that to the coil being too large for that amount of trash - it just wasn't possible to isolate some targets effectively.

I had a number of plugs that gave up good targets and had several trash items as well. One such plug had two aluminum screw caps, a crown cap, and a quarter. That impressed me quite a bit because the tone/ID was very much a quarter signal.

I dug a zinc penny (shield penny) that gave a target ID of 46 (where dimes ID). Nothing else in the hole, so I'm at a loss as to why it rang up with that ID.

I did dig a nickel today - it rang up a solid 26 and was about 4 inches down.

I didn't dig near as much trash today, but I was far more selective about the targets that I dug - so that's a big part of the lesser amount of trash.

I thought I dug a silver rosie. Even went so far as to keeping it apart from the rest of the coins dug, so I could check it out once I got home. It really did look like it was silver - I swear. A magnifier proved otherwise - it was a 2007 and not silver. Apparently, my aging eyes sometimes play tricks that make me feel pleased with myself for a little while.

Ended up with $1.66 in clad and a set of keys that were a visual find. I left the keys at the maintenance building. I think they were keys to equipment - so likely the keys belong to the maintenance department.

1 hour ago, GB_Amateur said:

Again comparing with the Eqx, most aluminum screw caps have dTID's between Zincolns and dimes & copper cents.  The flattened ones typically have a lower dTID (close to fresh drop Zincolns) than those that still retain their initial shape.  So I'm surprised the Legend signals them as dimes.

Thanks for the report.  The Legend is sounding like a winner, and at a great price.

I'd bet your observations with the Equinox apply to the Legend as well. I don't typically pay a lot of attention to ID numbers, but was making an effort to pay more attention since the Legend is a new machine and I'm trying to learn what it is telling me.

From what I recall, dimes would ID around 45 or 46 and gave a tighter high tone. I think the flattened (aluminum) bottle caps gave an ID of 45 but the tone was a bit off. Pennies seemed to have a fairly large latitude with regards to their ID - ranging from 39-40 for crusty zincs, and 41-42 for those in decent shape. I don't recall where the copper pennies came in, but I think they were around a 42 ID. I need to make it a habit to pay closer attention to the ID numbers - at least until I better learn the tones and what they're telling me.

I just realized that I completely forgot about the ferrous check. I have no idea how it performed. Will have to pay attention to that as well, since it could prove to be a useful tool. 

I do think the Legend is going to prove itself a very good machine. Even more so once NM has the chance to bring a few more updates.

I ended up going to the local sports complex for about 3 & 1/2 hours. Used Park, Multi 1 most of the time, but did try Multi 2 for a little bit. 60 tones and I ran the 2nd bin to the max (30) because the higher tones tend to do a better job of grabbing my attention. Ground balanced and noise canceled. Ran sensitivity around 23 (I think - don't recall for sure). Mostly ran in the G setting, but also used All metal and the F setting for a while. I left all other settings at their stock levels.

I've seen a number of people detecting the sports complex over the years and just recently spoke to a guy who told me he had cleaned it out and there wasn't much of anything left to find (that was a couple of weeks ago). The complex itself is quite large (6 baseball fields and 4-5 soccer fields, plus parking areas). I stayed in a fairly small area around the concession stand and the two closest ball fields - probably an area no more than 30 yards by 30 yards.

Ended up with $7.17 in clad. No silver, but a number of the pennies were copper. Don't think any were wheats, but I'll check before I dump the finds in with the rest of the clad. I did find two coin spills - one was 4 quarters and a penny, while the other was one dime and four pennies. Didn't dig a single nickel - though I did dig a bunch of signals that could've been nickels (all turned out to be can slaw). Only two coins were really fresh drops - on top of the dirt, buried in the grass - most everything else was 3-6 inches down. I did dig some targets that were a bit deeper than 6 inches - one being a dime that looked like it just came from the mint, and it was 7-8 inches down below thick grass.

I dug a lot of trash. Most of it needlessly so, as I was fairly sure it was trash before I dug it. Got fooled several times by smashed aluminum bottle caps that sounded like a dime and had a steady ID.

Thoughts (so far) on the Legend...

Love the headphones. They paired immediately, great sound, and no lag that I could discern. I think they're likely the equal to the Garrett headphones (and I love the Garrett headphones).

The Legend ran very smoothly. Love the high tones - dimes and quarters give a tone that just grabs my attention. The stock 11 inch coil separated better than I thought it would, but there were times where the smaller coil would've made it easier to hone in on the good target (surrounded by trash). It was very comfortable swinging the Legend with the 11 inch coil - surprisingly so from my standpoint.

I found quite a few coins that were on edge. Far more than I normally do (I think). I don't know why that was - perhaps it was luck on my part, or maybe the Legend is really good at sniffing them out. For the most part pinpointing seemed to be accurate. I did have some misses though - maybe due to so many coins being on edge?

As my brain began to become somewhat more familiar with the tones it seemed that smashed aluminum bottle caps gave a tone that is slightly off - just a bit different from a dime tone. I can't really explain it any better, but I dug several smashed aluminum bottle caps that had a dime's ID but the tone just didn't quite sound like a dime. For me they were kind of an "ah-ha" moment - one that will require more exploration on my part.

Large targets, and shallow targets, give a blasting sound - very brash and loud. Deeper targets have a much more mellow sound to them. I found that variation to be really effective in judging a target's depth. I didn't pay much attention to the depth meter - so I can't really say how well that works.

The Legend seems like it is an intuitive machine. The controls seem to be well thought out, easy to access, and easy to learn. I would like to see an update that makes it easier to see them (make the selected control pop more - so it's easier to tell which control is selected).

If I get the chance I'll take the Legend to the beach tomorrow and see how it does in wet salt sand. After that I'll put the 6 inch coil on and take it to a few of my iron trash permissions. 

Got mine late this afternoon. Charged everything up and did the update. Tomorrow will be the first hunt - either a local sports complex (clad and modern trash) or a local (mostly fishing) beach. I haven't decided which, yet.

Build quality is what I expected - excellent. The balance is pretty good but I probably won't leave the 11 inch coil on very long. I just prefer smaller coils and (to me) the 11 inch coil seems huge. I think the 11 inch coil will be the better choice for the beach, but the verdict is yet to be determined. I'll try the 11 inch coil in a trashy site (iron or modern) but doubt that I'll be thrilled with it in those types of sites. I mostly hunt iron trash areas, so I expect that the 6 inch coil will get the most use (until NM offers either a 9 inch or the 5X9).

I did make it a point to read the owner's manual again. Hopefully that means I'll struggle less tomorrow.

Dilek mentioned (video from a couple days prior) that the next update would address saltwater issues. Her comment to that regard was very brief - with no detail as to what exactly the update would change. That update should be available in the next few weeks (according to Dilek). I believe that update will also include the iron bias setting.

I have watched a few saltwater hunting videos where the Legend was very stable. I believe those were hunts in England. I think that the salt levels would be very close to what they are on the east coast of the US, but that may not be the case.

Whatever the cause of the instability, I am going to operate under the assumption that NM will get it ironed out and that updates will result in a Legend that is a very good beach machine.

I think the term "best" is highly subjective when it comes to listing metal detectors. The best machine for me could well be a very poor choice for someone else.

A number of people have asked me which machine they should buy (their first machine). Mostly they aren't sure of what they want, but in general they want the following:

1. Inexpensive

2. Hunt the shore (beach in non-NJ speak) - in water and dry sand.

3. Hunt their yard and parks.

4. Hunt for coins and jewelry.

5. Simple machine that doesn't require a lot of adjustments.

6. Metal detector that tells them the good stuff, so they don't dig trash.

For most I end up recommending one of 3 machines:

1. Simplex

2. Vanquish

3. Apex

When I explain that the Simplex is waterproof, but not a great choice for hunting salt water. And the Vanquish (and Apex) are good at hunting wet salt sand but aren't waterproof (so they aren't a great fit for hunting in the water) - I usually get blank stares.

Most (who asked for my opinion) have been shocked at how much metal detectors cost (we're talking the more entry level machines I've recommended). They'd be horrified at the price of an Equinox 800, a Deus, a Deus II, and especially the CTX 3030. Most would find the more expensive machines far too complicated.

While I (mostly) agree with the OP's list of the top five "best" metal detectors - as far as performance goes - only one of those five machines is going to appeal to the average person who has some interest in getting into the hobby.

I think the reason why Garrett Ace machines and Bounty Hunter machines tend to populate such lists is because they offer an entry into the hobby - at a price that most metal detecting curious people are willing to spend. And those machines do find stuff. In that sense, they are the best.

Video of same gold chain with tone break set at 9

Someone (another forum) made a post saying they had received notice (from a US dealer) that their Legend had shipped. That post was made today (March 1st).

I pre-ordered the Legend pro-pack but have not heard anything from my dealer. 

I have not tried it myself, but I have read a number of comments that were very positive.

I think Quest could earn a bigger slice of the US market if they could establish a reputable service network. It does seem that the people who have tried the more recent Quest machines like them.

For me, that stock coil would have to go. I'd probably try the Q30 if it came with the smaller blade coil (instead of the stock coil).