Dutchman4

That is why it is called "Jumping Cholla". 

I carry a heavy hair comb with me as part of my desert gear so I can use it to pull cholla out of my body especially if it is in an area like the back side where it is hard to get to.

12 minutes ago, Gold Catcher said:

It would be great to have some real answers about what impact the fix has for BT-only users. I suppose it is hard to convincingly quantify, and the reports of better threshold even without using the speaker could be a placebo effect. I guess we all want to believe that everything always gets better after a fix. The 6000 is a highly sensitive machine per design, and the threshold can be difficult to handle at times, even without any fault in place.

GC

That is a tough question to definitively answer due to so many variables in the field that could impact before and after repair comparisons.  Only time will tell when more and more reports come in from users in the field with repaired machines.  I do share your placebo effect concern but I need to spend more time in the field with my machine to evaluate this. 

If I had a schematic showing the two components that were replaced and their location in the circuit path, when the speaker is enabled and not enabled, then that would help to understand the potential for overall threshold stability improvement.  Other posts about this topic seem to indicate that two unshielded "Inductors" were replaced with shielded inductors.  If these two inductors are always part of the circuit regardless of speaker being used or not then it could explain an overall threshold stability improvement and reduced EMI sensitivity.  Most inductors contain a small coil of wire that can essentially act like a micro antenna.  Any electromagnetic field could induce an unwanted voltage in the coil part of the inductor and introduce EMI.  The source of that unwanted field could be the speaker, the transmit part of the detectors coil or over the air EMI.  If the inductor is shielded then that unwanted energy is shorted/shunted to the ground plane and wont reach the coil inside the inductor, thereby reducing EMI sensitivity.  This is just my possible explanation of how their could be an overall performance improvement to the detector but I need to spend much more time in the field under actual conditions to support this.   

5 hours ago, jasong said:

This is the idea I've been trying to preach about for years, in terms of where metal detectors can continue to improve, and why we aren't at a brick wall yet with detector advancement. Less EMI means more "effective" depth. Not just running higher gains, but allowing our own brains to more accurately process the most relevant information. Human brains, no matter how skilled a person is, have limitations when it comes to sensory overload where we have to listen to or see lots of data. The more there is, the more assumptions the brain makes. Even when sensory input is minimal, our brains still trick us by making assumptions and throwing away data (magic/visual illusions work like this). EMI is useless noise, and our brains will inevitably begin to discard the useless noise without our conscious mind realizing it - discarding some of the good signals along with the noise. Especially signals that very closely resemble the noise (edge of detection targets, other faint signals). This is what sensory adaptation is, and not even the most talented detectorist on the planet can avoid it - it's inevitable for us all even if we don't realize its happening.

Thanks for sharing this important element and a very interesting "read" especially the "auditory" section of the "sensory adaptation" link.  It all makes sense that if you have a warbly/noisy threshold then after hearing that for a while your brain tunes it out when in fact that transition/break in the threshold is exactly what you should be listening for.  It puts a whole different light on "effective" gain/sensitivity. 

6 hours ago, rvpopeye said:

16th gold ring....and it's only the 20th ?  WTG Compass !👍

The whatsit with solder spot could be electronics related but I'm thinking possibly more likely decorative . Or the space thing 🤩

So ,,,It's 2 grams of 14k . 

I also believe that the whatsit is electronics related but expect it to be gold plated to make it a corrosion resistant type of contact or conductor.

3 hours ago, Steve Herschbach said:

A certain reality is that what some people consider insignificant, other people seize on as a reason to restrict or prohibit metal detecting. Leaving holes or leaving trash on the surface is the number one reason used to make sites off limits to detecting. If for no other reason, fill holes and properly dispose of trash to protect your privilege of being able to metal detect on public land. Or that privilege will be taken away. It’s happened in countless locations, and don’t think it can’t happen in yours.

Couldn't agree more.  When I lived in SoCal there were many outdoor target shooting areas on BLM land that were shut down due to huge amounts of trash left behind including old TV's and appliances that were shot up.   

I always fill my holes also and even put my first scrape layer of gravel/rocks back on top so after some weathering you can barely tell there was a dig hole there.  I create a GPS waypoint for every nugget I have found and sometimes I go back to detect the same area and I have a hard time finding the original dig hole.

The other thing is TRASH.  I pick up trash that others leave behind as long as it is not too big.  I was also raised with the same etiquette to leave leave a place the same or better than you found it.  The beauty of metal detecting is the surgical removal of gold or other targets with low impact.  

1 hour ago, Dutchman4 said:

It was my understanding that the Minelab fix for the "Internal Speaker Audio Feedback" problem was a "Hardware Upgrade".  Is there a "Software Upload" involved also? 

I answered my own question.  My GPX 6K is currently at the USA repair center for the Internal Speaker Audio Feedback problem so I called and spoke to the repair tech regarding any software/firmware updates and he said it is currently up to date because there have been no software/firmware updates to the GPX 6000 since the production release.

11 hours ago, Gerry in Idaho said:

Did you send it in yet for speaker update and software upload? 

It was my understanding that the Minelab fix for the "Internal Speaker Audio Feedback" problem was a "Hardware Upgrade".  Is there a "Software Upload" involved also? 

So, if the advertised numbers are correct, then it appears that the NF 16 x 10 is 6oz heavier than ML 11.   That is pretty good and makes the NF 16 x 10 6oz less than the, not so pleasant to swing, ML 14 DD and almost 8oz lighter than the ML 13 x 17.

Be nice if NF can start delivering these.

Quote

I’m a Nugget Finder fan because the NF 16 x 10 will reportedly be 100 grams lighter than the Coiltek 14 x 9 and after 8 hours swinging, at my age, that’s noticeable 

Does anyone know how the weight of the NF 16 x 10 compares to the stock 11" mono and also how does it affect the balance of the detector? , shaft twist?

I cant say for sure about how the control architecture of metal detectors work but I do know that there is probably not much decision making going on to require any high level or even low level language.  In the basic form there will be a known set of inputs to some type of micro-controller and in the end there will be a known set of outputs.  A micro-controller is different than a micro-processor in that it only follows a very limited and fixed instruction set and does not really process a lot of variable data like a micro-processor or cpu.  The instruction set, or program if you want to call it that, for a micro-controller resides in non-volatile firmware (eprom or pla).  This firmware is typically updated and revised if/when needed to implement factory changes or updates.  There is probably some device specific language involved to initially program the firmware but again I don't think that would be comparable to a typical computer language.

The fact that the washer can shift into an offset position indicates the ID of the washer is not properly sized to the OD of the screw.  Poor choice of washer, engineering should change the manufacturing BOM and also change the material to SS if it is not already.

21 hours ago, Gravelwasher said:

 Love the 6k but if I was not an experienced detectorist already I would hate it.

 I get phantom target sounds, bad emi, cant tilt the coil to detect slopes, and had a bad aftermarket coil.

On the plus side if I take it out at night the EMI is greatly reduced and I don't need sunscreen..lol

So I am hopeful some of these issues will get resolved.......eventually...lol

 

I have noticed that too a few times that the 6000 gets real quiet and nice to run after the sun goes down.

So can someone "summarize" the GPX6000/Part 2 video results for me regarding when to use the Difficult vs Normal modes?

Do I have it right to just run in Difficult mode all the time for best results in all soils or only when working in heavy mineralized soils and hot rocks?

I might be old school, probably because I am old, but for me I like to be in control of the high level intelligence elements.  Sure ground balance, ground tracking, EMI elimination are great features to have and enable the detector and the detectorist to focus on the actual signals of interest but I enjoy training my ears and my mind to learn the sounds of a gold target vs trash or ground noise and it is this element of the hobby that gives me excitement, pleasure and joy.  Each gold field can produce slightly different target sounds and again part of the challenge/fun is to learn those sounds and develop the skill to predict if a pre-dug target is going to be gold or trash.  I still tend to dig most targets anyway but after a few hours of digging trash targets in a particular area I get satisfaction from knowing that I can reach a 90%+ probability of predicting gold vs trash.  IMO it is this HUMAN intelligence skill that differentiates great detectorists from average ones. 

I do enjoy the convenience of technology for every day tasks but I have observed over my lifetime that as technology get smarter the human get dumber.  After Velcro came out kids forgot how to tie their shoes.  After google maps came out people forgot how to read maps.  Even common sense has fallen by the wayside when you read stories of people that are so reliant on technology that they can't even solve simple every day problems. 

Sure the computing power behind AI learning can achieve things in hours or days that would take the human brain years or decades to learn but I will never underestimate to power of the human mind that is a result of thousands of years of evolution in the REAL world. 

Do you really want an AI based, all knowing, detector to reduce you down to the mere unintelligent functions of swinging and digging? 

5 hours ago, DSMITH said:

tell me just what you think they would repair according to Dilek this is the way the Legend is supposed to work or behave so why would someone waist their $$$$ to send in for repair, just for them to say it is working like it is supposed to work LOL

I am just trying to figure out if it is working or not working then I will decide whether to send in for warranty

I dont own a legend and cant mention specifics.  I am only sharing what I know from troubleshooting electronic equipment for 38+ years.  Only trying to help you narrow down the areas to focus on based on past experience with other equipment but I cant say that this would apply to your situation.  I am only saying if you can easily reproduce the condition that you believe to be a problem/fault then a professional repair person should be able to evaluate and repair if needed.  

I will only add that software/firmware generally does not produce different results over time so if you get typical GB values after the software install/update then you should repeatedly get the same results, over time, under the same conditions.

This makes me believe that your machine has a hardware problem or a drifting problem that creeps in after power up.  If you can reproduce the problem repeatedly then have it professionally repaired.

I agree that the price of gold is manipulated like everything else.  Gold should have reached $5K/oz years ago if it was priced correctly to cover the amount of world debt.

For boots I like the offerings from Merrell and have been using their boots for back packing, upland game hunting and nugget hunting going on 20+ years.  I'm 62 now but in my 30's I used to backpack all over the southern Sierra in heavy all leather clunky boots and never complained until I tried on a pair of lightweight, breathable Merrell's and never looked back.  There is a saying "a pound on the foot is worth 10 in the pack" and I can attest to that.  I like to cover a lot of ground and explore new areas when nugget shooting so I prefer light fast boots.   I like mid cut boots but some people prefer the extra ankle support and secure feeling they get from high boots.  Breathable boots are usually not very water proof and only water resistant at best, even with treatments.  I have tried gore-tex lined boots but the problem I have is that they run hot and your feet sweat and then get wet from the inside out.  Most Merrell boots have little to no metal in them.  The older boots were a bit tougher than recent years but I think that is the case for most everything.

I use these for open desert nugget shooting and day hiking but might be too minimalist for most people:

https://www.merrell.com/US/en/moab-2-ventilator/27947M.html?dwvar_27947M_color=J06011#cgid=men-footwear-hiking&start=1

I use these for upland game bird hunting and is just a mid cut version of above.  Does have metal tab for top lacing.

https://www.merrell.com/US/en/moab-2-mid-ventilator/27935M.html?dwvar_27935M_color=J06045#cgid=men-footwear-hiking&start=1

The also offer defense and tactical versions but I have not tried them:

https://www.merrell.com/US/en/moab-2-8-inch-defense-zip-comp-toe-boot-wide-width/53627M.html?dwvar_53627M_color=J099371W

https://www.patriotoutfitters.com/merrell-moab-2-tactical-waterproof-side-zip-8-quot-boot?PMOPV1=COY&PMOPV2=11&PMOPV3=M&PMSRCE=POPLA&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIgpL2_NK0-AIVEQnnCh0sEQ3EEAQYBSABEgIqJvD_BwE

I'm not an expert in metal detector circuitry but I do have some background in signal processing and electronics and can add some basics.  Metal detectors transmit a signal (TX) and then receive (RX) a signal back from a target response.  The frequencies and amplitudes of those signals depends on the type of detector.  The RX signal is generally very low amplitude so it has to be amplified first before it can be processed.  The GAIN of an amplifier determines how much larger the output is vs the input to the amplifier and is generally by factors of 10x, 100x, 1,000x, 10,000x, etc.  A good amplifier will not add any distortion to the original signal because any added distortion is undesirable.  Once the signal is amplified it can be processed and analyzed.  Filters can be applied to remove certain frequency components of the signal and this is another area that the designer has to take care to remove only the undesired components of the signal and leave the desired component intact as much as possible.  The remaining signal can then be processed further to extract desired information and finally converted to an audio representation that the human ear can hear and interpret.

In the old days all of this was done with analog circuits and it took some brilliant designers to get the best circuits possible.  In the 1960's Digital Signal Processing (DSP) started to come along.  DSP provides very flexible and powerful signal processing capabilities that would not be practical with analog circuitry.  With DSP the same analog RX signal from the target is also first amplified but then it is converted from an analog signal to a digital signal by and Analog to Digital converter (A/D).  This conversion process is not perfect and some very small errors can be introduced but this is minimal with a good converter.  Once the signal is in the digital domain then DSP can be applied and the designer has many possibilities and algorithms to choose from to extract the desired information from the signal without the limitations of analog circuitry.  Then the remaining digital signal has to be converted back to analog with a Digital to Analog converter (D/A) to provide an audio representation that the human ear can hear and interpret.  This can all be done with with very compact and light weight microelectronic circuitry vs the heavy and large analog circuitry of the older technology.

I have that particular Apex pick with the 3 magnet option and it is quite heavy for such a small pick.  They also offer that same pick with a single magnet option and I now wish that I had bought that one instead for less weight and cleaner look.  The Apex badger is one tough pick and seems indestructible but a bit heavy to me.  

My 6K was purchased new in Nov-2021 and I have had no problems with it other than the same problem others have had with the two shaft mounting screws, behind the speaker panel, coming loose.  At first I was concerned if the 6000 was going to be rugged enough considering how light it is but mine has held up well.  I actually prefer the light yet strong design concept for everything mechanical as long as it is engineered well.

I spent 38 years in semi-conductor manufacturing as a maintenance tech/eng for high throughput automated test equipment.  The older equipment tended to be more reliable because it was put together well.  Also the older circuit board technology using "through hole" vs todays "surface mount" resulted in very reliable solder connections.  It is the type of technology that took us to the moon and back many times.  The newer assembly/manufacturing technologies are much more automated and can also be high quality and robust but relies heavily on QC inspections and testing to ensure there are no "Quality Leaks" if there is a quality issue on the production line.  Ensuring quality takes time/resource/money but customers like Aerospace, Defense and Automotive demand it from their suppliers.  It appears that the 6K is utilizing modern manufacturing methods but is lacking in the outgoing QC at the factory.  With this perceived level of 6K failures it would behoove Minelab to perform a QC audit at the factory where the 6K is produced.  QC is well worth the investment when it comes to protecting Minelab's reputation for putting out quality products and retaining customer loyalty.

What Jason describes is common in some of our desert gold fields that have relatively flat and rocky areas with strong winds.  It is one of the placer types and is called an "Eolian Placer".

Thanks guys.🙂