Digalicious

On second thought, a type of overload may indeed be what's occurring. Notice the audio is much louder in BM compared to Park and Field? So maybe on some non-fringe targets, the signal strength is so high that BM sees it as an audio overload and then just ignores the target? I think BM mode would be beneficial for hitting fringe targets in low trash sites, OR hitting fringe targets on sites that one has already cleaned out using Park or Field.

Thanks for that. I would have to do more testing to know for sure, but are you thinking that BM is so "sensitive", that when it encounters some mid to high signal strength targets, BM sees it as a type of overload and then just ignores the target?

Maybe even the type of mineralization? A clue confirming that might be Nokta stressing the importance of ground balancing while using BM. Then stressing the importance of GB2 when encountering hot rocks or red brick (red clay ground?). Is that red clay ground in the video? In my very low mineralized ground, the improvement using DT and BM is subtle, but noticeable. If I had to put a number to it, I would say that BM and DT correctly a identify a fringe nonferrous target as nonferrous, about 1" deeper than Park and Field mode does.

It's freezing outside with gale force winds, but I couldn't wait any longer and had to do a new test. Park Mode in A, first tone break at 1, 25 sensitivity, 3 recovery, IF 0, BC 0, AG 3. I used a U.S. nickel, ground balanced at 26 on clean ground, and buried the nickel deep enough that in Park mode, I would very occasionally get a tone and an ID of 2 and 3. The signal was so iffy, that it could easily be mistaken as some of the ground signal coming through. I switched on DT and set it to 3. I now got fairly consistent two way hits, but they were kind of "crunchy". The ID jumped from 2/3, and I saw a 48 / 50 a few times. Switched to BM using A and set the IR at 2, AG at 3. Ground balanced at 31 on clean ground. The two way hits were much cleaner than DT, and the ID was similar to DT. On a side note, I tripled checked the ground balance in Park and BM, to confirm that the ground balance was slightly different between those modes.

I sure hope it would be silent. When I get around to my testing, I'll be checking Park mode with and without DT.

Thanks for that Hardpack, but I understand that 🙂 What I was getting at, is if Park mode was used in A for those targets, and the tone break was set at the minimum of 1, then would Park mode have given an ID and/or tone on those targets? Perhaps choppy ferrous tones and ID of 2 or 3? Or maybe an occasional nonferrous tone and ID? I would have liked to have seen the differences between BM and Park on those targets, with Park mode setup the way I mentioned (more equal to BM mode). I won't be able to do any more testing until Saturday, but that's the way I'll set up Park mode when I do that testing and compare each mode.

I just noticed that in Park and Field, the Disc pattern was G. The G pattern discriminates out the ID's of 1 and 2, which is what the targets were mainly showing for an ID in GM. Now I'm wondering what would have happened if A was used in Park and Field. Iffy audio? No audio?

So BM is indeed all about the ferrous or nonferrous tone, because the fringe target doesn't have enough information to provide a nonferrous ID. Well, that explains why tone breaks and anything but the "A" disc pattern would defeat the purpose of BM.

Also... Does BM not work at all in the G, F, or C discrimination pattern? OR, does it only partially work in those discrimination patterns?

Dilek, Thank you for the demo. It was very convincing.

Very cool JCR. Well, "cool" for us nerds lol. Thanks for posting 🙂

I did even more testing, and I think I'm convinced that BM often, and deliberately, ignores shallow to mid depth targets (mid to high signal strength targets). That would explain why so many of my in the wild targets weren't even detectable in BM, but came through loud and clear with a good ID in Park mode. The 30% of targets in which BM was much better than Park mode, were all deep or tiny targets (low signal strength targets).

According to the release notes of the new update, the 2nd GB is to overcome mineralized/hot rocks, red bricks and other ground changes in the surrounding environment that have different properties than the soil that’s been ground balanced.

Agreed. With a mode so "different" as BM is, a demo before release would have been very helpful. I'm still thinking BM is a niche mode. Relic hunting in iron infested sites maybe? How did Gen D mode work JCR?

Hi MotoMiami. Did you check your spam / trash / deleted folder? I've come across many similar instances in which the service center reply was in one of those folders. Some even mass deleted one of those folders, and used their mail program's recovery option to find the email. If none of that applies, try contacting Nokta directly: Contact Nokta

According to the Vanquish manual, that's correct 🙂

I guess the high frequency of the Accupoint makes it much more sensitive to tiny targets, and less sensitive to coin sized objects. That could come in handy with tiny targets that lower frequency pinpointers either miss or the targets have to be touching the pinpointer. I've gotten plenty of those tiny targets, in which the pinpointer wouldn't pick up. I had to grab clumps of dirt, and run them across the coil like some archaic chump! lol

I dug a lot of foil in the mid to high twenties in BM, that correctly gave low teen IDs in Park mode. But again, BM doesn't seem meant for ID accuracy. Rather, just meant to make a sound on nonferrous. And yes, when swinging along and BM sees a nonferrous target...it stops me dead in my tracks. That's why I previously said it was a screamer 🙂 My testing and comparisons were done with the natural swings we do while hunting. Testing by honing in on the target and doing the short wiggle, isn't a valid testing procedure in my books, because no one hunts like that. The advantages of DT and BM are more evident using a natural swing, instead of the short wiggle.

I was able to get out yesterday and finally do some proper testing with DT and BM. I was experimenting in a public park with low mineralization. To start though, nowhere in the update description does it say that DT or BM goes deeper. The description states that these modes are designed to better separate nonferrous targets from the ground signal and ferrous objects. DT was working well in my testing. It very often turned a one way signal or an iffy one way signal, into solid 2 way nonferrous hits. It normally did so with clean audio and accurate IDs. BM worked well on about 30% of the fringe targets. With the other 70% of fringe targets, it either did no better, or did worse than Park Mode. BM also severely up averaged nonferrous targets, but that effect was more pronounced on lower conductors like foil. From what I've read, other than the depth thing, many are expecting BM to give accurate audio and ID, but I don't think that's possible. I mean, BM is designed for fringe targets. Fringe targets don't contain enough information to have accurate audio and ID. That is the very nature of fringe targets. That's why I don't think BM can provide better ID and audio than the other modes. All it can do (sometimes), is give an "on" audio response to indicate a nonferrous target, when other modes can't.

Your ring total, as well as the type total, are almost identical to what I found last summer in an unhunted private swimming area. If it was 35 years ago when I first started hunting, the junker to silver / gold ratio would have been reversed. I'm going to be hunting the top of our local sled hill in a couple of weeks. I already hunted the bottom of the hill and didn't find any jewelry. I just got some clad and a lot of winter coat buttons / zipper parts. I guess that was expected though, as it's mainly kids that go down the hill, and they're covered in head and toe with winter clothing...kind of hard to lose jewelry through that. The top of the hill however, is the adult hang out. I haven't hunted it yet. The adults often take their gloves on and off for various reasons. That's a good way for a ring to slip off. Where were most of your ring finds in the sledding area?

I'm finding the DT does what it claims to do, is easy to use, and has a consistent ID. BE on the other hand, is a "screamer" lol. I've learned that BE isn't about the ID, because the ID is erratic and inaccurate on nonferrous targets. In fact, the description for BE states that "Targets at fringe depths may not give an ID or their ID may be unstable". I've also learned that whenever instructions say something like "may not", it usually means "will not" 🙂 BE is all about the audio. With my tests on wild fringe targets, BE screams "nonferrous!" on some targets. With the same targets, the audio using DT is not nearly as blatant, and the audio in regular mode is broken up or 1 way. All of that doesn't occur on all fringe targets. Put another way, BE doesn't usually know the type of nonferrous target it's seeing at the fringe, but it's very bold when it tells you that it sees a deep nonferrous target (compared to regular and DT mode, and provided the AG is similar)

With some further experimentation in my backyard, I'm beginning to think that DT and BM aren't "technically" going deeper. Rather, DT and BM are exposing small and deep nonferrous targets that were previously missed, or very iffy, due to masking from the ground signal and / or iron objects. It's as though the improvement is in the separation of nonferrous targets from the ground signal and iron.

Well, describing that vehicle as a beast, is much more apt than describing a metal detector as a beast. When the ladies see us metal detecting, I seriously doubt "beast" comes to their mind 😁

Now that will be interesting! Then again, with SMF, we still don't know what frequencies are processed 😑 Also, according to the BM instructions, it seems as though the additional ground balance in BM, is only needed when the ground mineralization changes due to objects like hot rocks...and that's only if the hot rocks are causing falsing. Other than the likes of hot rocks, then shouldn't it suffice to enter BM and just do a regular ground balance?

Yep. Incidentally, here's another one a user made up. Kind of getting overly dramatic! 🙂