bobinyelm

I am taking the TDI out today and will try underbalancing it just a tad (on the counterclockwise side of absolutely quiet during the ground balancing) to see if small targets sound off better. I am also trying a Bluetooth transmitter attached to the TDI with a pair of low latency Bluetooth headphones to see if it will work to free me from the earphone cord. I would hope there's no EMI generated by the bluetooth transmitter. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Results: On the ground balance, located lots of BBs and Bullet fragments, but no really weak targets to see if slightly underbalancing the GB would result in better detecting. The low-cost ($25) Bluetooth transmitter attached to the headphone jack of the TDI was WONDERFUL, as were the $30 lightweight Bluetooth headphones. "Cutting the cord" was great. And the on-the-ear headphones is safer than over-the-ears headphones as far as hearing ambient noises (like rattlesnakes that are fairly common where I hunt). Obviously will work with any non-Bluetooth Metal Detector Headset Bluetooth Adapter 1/4" Headset Jack to 3.5mm Headset Plug Adapter Thanks.

On my Gen 1 TDI, that GB range is VERY wide and poorly defined, meaning when balance is achieved (NO sound when pumping) a setting either side of that perfect balanced center is also quiet before you start getting the tone-up (when the coil is lowered when pumping) as you turn the knob counter clockwise, and going clockwise before you hear the tone-down as you lower the coil when pumping. A hypothetical could be where pumping, the detector goes silent and no longer produces a higher tone as the coil approaches the ground (balanced) at knob position "7.5," but if you keep rotating the control clockwise, it stays silent (balanced) until you reach "8.5", at which point you start hearing the low tone approaching the ground with the coil. That 7.5 to 8.5 position is pretty wide. Maybe if I were in extremely mineralized soil, the balance knob setting becomes more critical/precise- I don't know because I have not operated the TDI in such conditions (Australia seems to have HEAVILY mineralized soil, for instance, much more mineralized than where I've tried the TDI here in Arizona). If I read you right, you have found that the LOWEST GB knob setting (most counter clockwise) that produces silence when balancing makes the detector the most sensitive? And conversely as you rotate the knob clockwise, just as you approach hearing the tone-down when pumping is LESS sensitive? (In the hypothetical example I used above, that would mean using the 7.5 setting, as it is the lesser "barely balanced" setting you describe?) Of course Gen 1 does not have a vernier GB, perhaps because the GB is not to touchy (critical) in finding the quiet GB position. Having not used a SL, I am guessing here. Another question about GB: If in unmineralized soil, running GB OFF results in a single tone response to all metals, but they say it makes the detector more sensitive to deeper targets. The criteria for turning it OFF is that when attempting to ground balance, there is NO position at which you can null out the detector, meaning there is no balance point by varying the knob position w/ the GB switch ON. If you CAN ground balance in GB ON (meaning you have mineralized soil), the manual says you "must" use GB ON. My question is, In MILDLY mineralized soil where you can find a ground balance (twisting the knob does something), but it's not so mineralized to where a VLF cannot be used effectively (indicating not BADLY mineralized ground), will running with GB OFF be productive at all, or more sensitive/deeper than with it ON? I apologize if my questions sound "muddy," but trying to put into words in text that precisely mean what I am getting at is difficult. It's one of those situations where it takes a thousand words in print to say what you could describe in person in about 15 seconds.

Thank you Steve for your excellent explanation of the condition! I know you have a LOT of experience specifically with the TDI from literally years of ueu (as well as most machines around), and since that's what I am using because I cannot justify a more sophisticated PI machine right now, I was wondering how those of us still using that detector can minimize that effect and use it more effectively. Most of us I suspect are running TDI with GB at around 8 and delay of 10us. I know that not using GB can be used in soils that are not badly mineralized for greater sensitivity. In soils that are not highly mineralized (soil that allows effective use of a VLF machine, for instance), it is better to run on GB Off, or to in GB and use less or more than the usual "8" that balances out perfectly in most conditions, ie. purposely running a bit unbalanced)? In other words, from your vast experience, are there settings other than those typically used that can "trick" or "fool" the detector to see things it would ordinarily not see (and mask) by varying adjustments that are favored to get a quite, stable threshold and 'quiet running'?" If running GB, would under balancing, or over balancing it by a, say, 1/2 or 1 unit result in better detection of small gold (at the cost of noisier or less stable operation). Or is the best solution with the TDI just to operate in proper GB and "ALL" conductivity and accept that you're just going to miss certain size/shape/character pieces of gold and call it good until one can afford a more modern and more sophisticated detector? I guess if I could better visualize the chart you provided I wouldn't ask, as the chart you likely contains the answer, but on the other hand maybe there's a practical-compromise setting that summarizes the best overall performance (minimum blind spot) without multiple passes at different varying settings. I am not addressing other PI detectors w/ regard to settings because I haven't used them, but if you have suggestions for other common machine settings to get the most from, I know that insight would be most welcome. Being able to have and use a GPZ7000 would be great to aspire to, as for now it's likely the best of the best and most capable "one-pass" unit on the market, albeit it at a price point relatively few can justify. Thanks, Bob

One commenter to the test on YouTube by Chris Ralph mentioned the Axiom has 2 settings for balancing ground for mineralization and he used only one, so best to wait for Steve to weigh in, or to specifically post in a Garrett Axiom Forum at this site or others? I know when I spoke to Miner John, he was enthusiastic about the Axion, and he was a contributor to Whites for their design and testing, so should be knowledgeable. He suggested the Axiom as a worthy upgrade for my no longer state of the art TDI. I certainly do not want to in any way denigrate the detector given I have not seen or used one. I am completely agnostic, and just trying to learn myself.

I do not own or have ever tried an Axiom, but in a video test by "Chris Ralph, Professional Prospector" of an SDC2300 and the Axiom, both seemed comparable on small gold, but the Axiom was MUCH more affected by hot rocks than he SDC. 'Blind spot' was not addressed in his comparison: (Note he also demonstrates the GM1000 VLF on mineralized soil and hot rocks, but it's the Axiom vs SDC2300 ($600 Cheaper than Axiom) that is operative if his test is representative and ability to ignore hot rocks is important to the user.)

It would seem automatic variable timing/delay could be the easiest to incorporate (if that is a variable that improves more thorough detection), and would preclude multiple passes over the ground, so it makes me wonder why they have not done it. Twisting a knob to select delay is kind of like having a knob like really old cars had on the top of the windshield to move the wiper blade. Now with microchips we have rain sensors that completely sense the rain, determine the intensity, select the speed of the wiper, and the speed/spacing of sweeps, and shuts off when the rain stops. I mean the GPZ 7000 listed for $10,000 (now $8500 it seems). That's a LOT of money; for that price it should have wings and fly. I paid that for a PA18/150 Super Cub I had in Alaska not THAT long ago. You can practically buy/build a Super Computer for that kind of money https://www.asianscientist.com/2017/09/features/build-your-own-supercomputer-1000/ . Software these days can work wonders. The VLF Legend has multiple programs (There have been 11 software versions released, which are user downloadable, as user suggestions are adopted.) with virtually a huge list of user adjustable parameter, including multi simultaneous frequencies, or selectable single frequencies, all for $400 (machine with one coil or $600 with 2 coils, aux lithium battery, bluetooth headset and submersible to 10ft) , and it's not alone. Most new VLFs are amazing, and I cannot believe that PIs couldn't benefit from this kind of magic. Sorry for the rant, but I suspect that more is possible in PIs these days. Not enough competition, or large enough market. I know there are detector designers/engineers that frequent the Forum. I'd love to hear their opinion on that.

Having been well behind the times by only recently purchasing a beautifully kept TDI, I did not discover that, though I did read (recently) posts where people just said they were "interchangeable," though it didn't mention it was one-way compatible until Miner John told me when he mentioned I should buy ML coils going forward rather than TDI coils as when I upgraded to an ML it would save me money and grief.

Is it known what size/shape range it ignores? Or does it depend upon the coil used more than the machine itself? Is it a function of the delay I wonder? It would be interesting if there were a way to "sweep" the delay, so that you could have it rapidly sweep +/- 20% above/below the selected delay setting. I've read that even the difference from 10us (the optimum for small low conductivity gold) to 13us can make a big deal in "seeing" things. Where I hunt in desert, 90% of "junk" is lead pellets or bullets, so stuff like tin foil or pop-tops wouldn't pose a bigger problem. Obviously I am not a detector engineer-just a rhetorical curiosity. Anyone ever detect an area at say 10us, and then again at 13 or 15us to see the differences in detecting ability in the field or a test garden I wonder? More than 50 years ago I was an electronics engineer before changing careers, and back then it would not have been easy to accomplish that (analog and digital microcircuits were pretty new then), but today it would likely be relatively easy. If changing delay slightly would catch more targets close to the nominal ideal delay (without finding mostly junk) it would be interesting (but beyond my obsolete capabilities, unfortunately).

Though I have not yet received my 8X6 Sadie, from all the glowing reports, it's obviously well thought of. Perhaps John's mention that it doesn't work as well on the TDI is more of a comment about the lesser ability of the TDI detector itself, rather than a degradation of the coil's ability when used on the TDI. As Steve mentioned, the TDI is nowhere close to the abilities of a GPX5000. I haven't used a GPX, but I can only imagine the 6000 and 7000 are even better. Interestingly John mentioned a quirk of the GPX6000 (I think he said) that I had heard about with at least certain PI machines. It is the tendency for them to completely ignore certain sizes or shapes of gold nuggets, finding larger, or smaller gold with no problem, but completely ignoring nuggets in the "donut hole" detection sizes. He mentioned he found this after thoroughly going over an area with the 6000 and cleaning it out, only to go over the area with the 7000 and easily turning the previously ignored nuggets up in depths easily exceeded by the 6000-it just was blind to them. I wonder if the TDI exhibits the phenomenon with certain target sizes? I don't have enough experience with it to have a clue.

As to a difference between Razorback Coils marked "TDI" vs "ML," last week I spoke with Miner John who very graciously took a good deal of time educating me on the different coils available for he TDI. One of the things he mentioned was that he has found that because the ML detectors put out considerably more power (more amperage to the coil), they can easily blow out coils evidently using higher gauge wire, or other components in the TDI coils. He therefore did not recommend using TDI coils on a ML detector. On the other hand, ML coils like the Sadie work well on the TDI, but since they are designed for the higher power ML, they won't perform as well on a TDI. Now, I did not specifically ask whether Razorback coils made for ML work as well on TDIs as do the ones specifically made for the TDI. In other words, maybe what allows the ML coils take the additional power (Different wire of lower resistance could mean more turns to have the same coil impedance?), degrades performance in the TDI? I am not stating a fact as far as HOW the ML coils can take more power, or whether ML coils are less effective on TDIs than TDI coils of the same make and size. Just conjecture on my part. But he DID say that MLs can blow out TDI coils. I am not sure whether if a coil blows out, it affects the detector output transistors in a ML since the pulse voltage would likely be much higher without the load of an intact coil. Again, I didn't ask him. He did say that after taking over production of Razorback coils, and after disassembling several, he noted significant design flaws in them, and modified the ones HE produced to eliminate these flaws, so are much better. Though he is OUT of the coil building business for now at least (due to the forest fire that took his place), he suggested obtaining newer, improved Razorback Coils with labels including "Miner John" on them, which I guess he made along side Miner John design coils (not sure if he just stopped selling them as Razorback at some point, and continued production as Miner John, but at least SOME Razorbacks have Miner John on them, as do some improved "Jimmie " mono coils which he manufactured for Jimmy Siera for the TDI)

I don't have any experience with the TDI yet, so I am sure you're correct. In reality, the ability to see 0.5gr targets just would demonstrate extreme sensitivity, though practically, looking for pieces that small, other than indicating the presence of gold in the area, worth about $2 each would be economically unproductive. In spreadsheet presentation of Korelian's data, it's obvious you are on the money with your statement.

Yes, I read that Thread and it's very thorough! I am amazed at he information volunteered here and the other MDing Forums, and much appreciate it! In some cases, it's difficult to make direct comparisons as there are SO MANY different variation of coils. Korelian mentions a 'Razorback Longreach 10X6 Mono, which I haven't found anywhere, while I found a Razorback 8.5X11 Mono TDI locally, which is close size wize, but could be different electrically and perform very differently perhaps. SO many Coils, so little time (and money). I just figure since I am using a "2nd Class machine*," I would need a 1st Class Coil" to get the most out of it to maximize results. I kinda' figure it's like tires on high performance cars- Best tires on a lesser vehicle can trump a superior car with on tires. *Compared to an ATX or Minelab PI Bob PS Based on many recommendations on the Forums, I did the other night purchase a new Sadie 6X8 directly from Australia. I'll be eager to see how it performs when I get it. I can borrow the Razorback 8.5X11 TDI coil to compare, and always sell the Sadia if it isn't as good (Miner John mentioned in an email that the Sadie 6X8 was GREAT on Minelab but not so much on the TDI, but of course there are many variables (soil, mineralization, etc) so I will compare them on he ground here. But thanks and I appreciate your suggestions very much. Bob Korelian Data: 0.5 grain gold coin. Winner is Razorback Longreach 10 x 6 mono at 27cm, second goes to Nugget Finder Sadie at 26cm.

Very cool. I have not seen or used the SL, but I know they are better balanced and of course lighter. On the original TDI, if you have not used one, the ground balance and threshold are not all that sensitive to need a vernier or "fine tune" control, so I guess Whites altered the TDI to create the TDI SL is many ways. Not sure if the original TDI has had mods to make it a better or more sensitive detector as I have not seen any mentioned on the Forums. I've heard of the TDI Pro, TDI Beachmaster, and the TDI 'OZ,' but I know nothing of these sub-models technically. Thanks again, Bob PS I received an email from Miner John, and he no longer makes coils for the TDI, and cautioned that the 6X8 Sadie coil is GREAT for the Minelab machines, but performs rather poorly on the TDI. I don't know how that compares to your results. So many variables in such tests. He recommended a Miner John 12X8 Folded Mono MJD for the TDI if I could find one used on the Internet as being superior to others available. (Not sure what MJD means, though).

Thanks, I edited my post to credit the OP as well as directly link any viewers to the thread in which he kindly posted his results. My failure to observe this courtesy was inadvertent, though obviously discourteous to the gentleman. Bob

Maybe that is over optimistic on my part, though I reviewed some TDI tests of a gent in Australia who tested about a dozen different coils, and one of the tests he did involved a 1 grain target at least, as you say your SL will do reliably. I didn't know whether a 1/2 gr target would register proportionally weaker and at reduced depth, or not at all. As I (should have) mentioned, I have VERY little time with the machine so far because I live where every trip to where I prospect is a 1+hr drive directly through Phoenix, so until I get a good 4X4 w/ and overland tent on it so I can spend multi-day outings, I am doing as much research as I can about the capabilities of the detector. This (below) is a chart for a 1 grain nugget with various coils. I HAVE the Jimmy 6X10 1/2 Dual Field Mono Coil which claims about 3" depth, while the 6X8 Nugget Finder "Sadie" 6X8 saw the target at about 6", which is quite an improvement. Since a lot of sub-grain items I was previously finding were at 2" depth (mostly tiny shards of lead), I was thinking the best coil I could find would provide a useful improvement over my VLF even taking into account in easy ground a VLF is more sensitive to small targets. What coil are you using that you find decent and useful with 1 grain targets, and at what depth can you detect them? Thanks- Bob BTW, Do you have the 16.8v battery mod, or maybe also the electronic component modification? I understand those mods make he SL about equal to the original TDI. I hear/see a TDI "OZ" claimed to be higher power, but I don't know that for a fact. I guess those were exclusively sold in OZ, or maybe just got a sticker put on them there by the distributor? According to karelian who posted his test results on the TDI w/ varios coils at link: https://tinyurl.com/25vv2yt8 Thanks to him for the useful information!

I just found this thread as I recently purchased a used 1st Generation TDI (and have been searching for information regarding it) hoping that it would provide additional flexibility to my VLF machines (A Whites MXT w/ 4X6 DD and a Legend w/ 6" Round) exclusively for use in Arizona gold detecting for small (mostly fractional gram) nuggets. My thinking was that at a relatively modest cost, the older TDI PI technology is still likely superior in many conditions to VLF in the mineralized areas I hunt, and would hopefully expand my capabilities without spending $1000 more or (MUCH more) for another used PI. I assume the Jimmy coil was designed by Jimmy Sierra, and though it says made in Sweet Home, OR. it doesn't say "Whites," so assume it was at least a decent, though perhaps not GREAT coil. I prospect either in dry washes, where relatively smaller physical coils allow better mobility getting around boulders and such, and in flat open country for residual gold at relatively shallow depths, where larger coils are not a disadvantage and will provide greater coverage (understandably at some loss in minute gold size sensitivity). Therefore, I am open to owning two different coils for my different applications. I am not especially interested in extreme depths as most finds hereabouts don't seem to be THAT deep, but he ability to maybe pick up targets passed over by hordes of VLF users over the years is useful. My thinking is that MOST hobby prospectors don't swing even "modest" PIs like the TDI, so I am hoping it will see targets missed by the large numbers of VLF detectorists, but likely not hunted/depleted by far fewer people with the better and more expensive PI machines. The TDI came only with the popular white "Jimmy" 5.5X10.5 Dual Field Elliptical Mono Coil I see in a lot of older YouTubes when the TDI was more state-of-the-art and popular. I've only had a few hours with the TDI (not nearly enough times to really go head-to-head with the VLF machines), but already I like the audio target "warble' response of the TDI to the 'zip' of the VLFs. From what I read, the "HOT coil" for confined spaces is the 6X8 Nuget Finder Sadie coil available new from Australia for about $230, and I noticed a White's Super Pulse 150 6.5" Round Coil also on ebay for $200. A local shop has an 8.5X11 Razorback TDI MONO in stock (about the largest physical size for washes) for $125 used, but I can find no test/review information about Razorback coils (I understand 'Miner John' now has manufacturing authority to produce Razorback designs and I shot him an email awaiting response). Everything else being equal I prefer coils that have edge sensitivity at the "nose" to help "pinpoint" targets. I have no candidates for larger flatter ground for greater depth yet, but am open to suggestions. So I have a few questions anyone here with more experience with the TDI: 1) Will the Gen-1 TDI in general give notably superior depth to the VLF machines (especially in mineralized soils with numerous hot rocks present) ? (I've read w/o modification the TDI-Pro and TDI-SL are not equal/better to the Gen1 TDI version, which I assume is true?) 2) In washes, I'd like to be able to hear small targets (0.4grain and up) without having to move as many rocks and clearing as much overburden first as is necessary to be able to hear/locate the targets using VLF. Will the TDI usefully increase that ability to do that as I've seen on the videos with superior PI machines like the SDC 2300 and the GTX machines, that I know are far more capable? 3) Are any of the coils I mentioned (Razorback 8.5X11, Sadie 6X8, White's Super Pulse 6.5") superior enough to justify the purchase $$ of one of them (and which one) in preference to the Jimmy coil? Thanks, Bob PS I did find this thread, but unfortunately the coils I have or am looking at were not listed.

Not sure if this thread is still active, but I recently picked up a first model White's TDI because here in AZ there is enough mineralization and hot rocks where I go that I wanted to try PI, but as a hobbyist buying a SDC2300 (that I understand is probably the next step up) was just more than I could justify. I knew going in that the TDI is "old technology" and is much less capable, but I figured it had to be better than my VLF machines in some circumstances, and I must say that it is a real step up with regard to locating targets that are then refined with the VLF (I have a MXT w/ a 4X6, a Legend, and my detecting buddy uses a GB 2). Most of our detecting is in washes where big coils are impractical, and of course less responsive to small gold anyway. The TDI came with the usual Jimmy Dual Field Mono 5.5"X10, which is OK (I have no real basis for comparison), but is not that hot for small gold (sub-gram down to 3 grains), and the nose of the coil is not useful for pinpointing. I know the TDI was never a great small gold finder, but figure a better coil could make up for some of that limitation. I found a used Razorback 8.5X11 I got to to try, and can buy for $100, and it seems considerably hotter than the Jimmy, and pinpoints on the front edge considerably better, but I can find no real information about it online from any users. I've read that THE optimal smaller coil for the TDI is the 6X8 Nugget Finder Sadie coil that can be had (new) from Australia for about $225 delivered in ebay. My question is whether the 6X8 Sadie is likely better enough to justify the additional $125 bucks for one without trying one? I know that's a tough question given I haven't seen anyone mentioning using the 8.5X11 Razorback coil. I understand that Miner John now makes and markets the old Razorback line of coils, so maybe he still makes the 8,5X11 under the "Miner John" that someone may be using and could comment. Now that most everyone has moved-on from the TDI it seems that information is hard to come buy, but I am hoping someone here might offer an educated opinion. Thanks, Bob

I just loaded v1.10 v2 Beta but it will be a while until I can get out and try it. I printed out the changes for v1.10/2 but I see the downloadable manual is still current for only v1.09. I am guessing that they will not issue a new manual until they release v1.11 . Since I don't use my detector every day, I like having a complete manual to refer to. In fact I had mine spiral bound at Staples with clear plastic covers to make it more rugged and convenient. I LOVE that Nokta has made improvements along he way to make the detector better, but I have to say that with Menus and Sub-menus to get to adjustments, it's quite a challenge to locate and change features in the field, especially after not using the unit for a while. I cannot fault Nokta for that as they have tried to keep it as simple as possible, but these ARE incredibly complicated and sophisticated devices. In my former life (pre-retirement) I first worked as a nuclear physicist 50 years ago, and after learning to fly, I was smitten, and became a USAF and then an airline pilot for the remaining 30 years of my working life, so I was used to working with reasonably complicated devices, but I have to say that the Legend is probably the MOST complicated device yet from the standpoint of being able to alter settings w/o a "Cheat Sheet" in hand. Perhaps it's just that I haven't used it enough to get familiar with it well enough, or that my aged brain is not what it once was (Yes, I know that unpleasant truth.), but getting the most from the unit is a challenge due to all the permutations possible. I plan on using mine in the AZ desert for gold (not interested in coins, though relics from the "old days" are fun to find, though it's unlawful to keep any), so I guess once I find settings that work, I'll just as do as Ron Popeil (Of Ronco products "Pocket Fisherman," and "Showtime Rotisserie,") advertised, "Set it and forget it," once I find settings that work for me which will make life easier. I must say that compared to my old Whites MXT and TDI, the Legend seems like it could become the subject of an entire Community College Course on how to use it (with maybe a few labs with hands-on use included). Until I can get the MOST from the Legend, I won't let go of the MXT, which with a 4X6 DD coil wasn't all that bad a detector afterall! But I KNOW the Legend is FAR superior, and when I become competent, I will let the MXT collect dust in a closet. One question (maybe two): 1) It says that Ground Suppression is for "Tough Ground" which I take to mean mineralized soil (lots of that where I go). But they say "Leave it OFF unless NEEDED." Does it hurt sensitivity (like to small gold)? By "Unless Needed" are they saying if you can ground balance the unit, you DON'T need GS, so leave it off? When WOULD one use it? 2) On the Iron Filter, I know that "8" was equivalent to the earlier default setting for the Legend, which was then "max iron filter" (Now 9 is even MORE filtering I know). As I know understand it, selecting LESS IF (iron bias?), there's a greater chance that iron may appear as non-ferrous to the detector? That would mean maybe digging more objects thinking they are non-ferrous, and finding them to be iron? In my case, looking for the SMALLEST gold targets (Prospecting Mode), would using LESS Iron Filter change the overall sensitivity of the detector, or just increase the chance that a target that is ferrous will fake me out as non-ferrous, influencing me to dig it? It would seem to me (though I may have it completely wrong) that iron filtering is a way to do what discrimination does in desentizing the unit to in this case iron? If anyone can explain it so I can understand, I'd really appreciate it! Bob

Thanks much for clearing that up with the technical explanation, and I can see why Less is More for prospecting. I was trying to think who said this (below), but it proved to be right again. Donald Rumsfeld used the sentence, so I looked it up to be "sure," only to find Samuel Clemens used it, then to prove the accuracy of the expression found another reference to its author, a Henry Wheeler Shaw. "It's not what you don't know; it's what you [think you] know that ain't so" [that gets you] So thanks for setting me straight on Iron Filtering, and it makes total sense why minimal Iron Filtering would be useful. By the way, given the number of metal detectors you own and have used, curious where the Legend stacks up on the scale in general (Multi use detectors) and as a Gold Detector compared to your impressive list? Just curiosity on my part. And given that it appears you used yours not only FOR, but WHERE I intend to use mine for the same specimens (near Morristown AZ/San Domingo/Hassayampa drainages and Yavapai Co.) and last weekend I was working some washes west of Lake Pleasant, you most likely know exactly what is best for me! Certainly you have FAR more time swinging and observing the results. And I appreciate it. Bob Question- Not exclusively about the Legend, but a VLF ground balance question that might be pertinent to the Legend as well. I was fooling w/ my trusty Whites MXT today with a 4"X6" DD Coil (seems to work much better than the stock concentric 9.5" round coil in the field) and I was curious how far it would "air test" with a single standard paper staple (0.7 grain wt). I had the MXT standing vertical away from any metal and I was sweeping the staple rapidly back and forth past the coil, ending the swings a foot or more either side of the coil so as to not mess up the ground balance tracking (which I know if you hover or stay too close, continuous tracking will 'balance out' the target). After about a half dozen passes it no longer reported the staple at all. The only way I could get it to see the staple again was to turn the machine OFF, then ON essentially rebooting/resetting the ground tracking (I suppose). Is the reason it stopped "seeing" the target because in the absence of swinging the coil over anything with mass (soil) makes the circuit especially prone to be desensitized to the target by repeated passes? I thought as long as you swept well past the coil with the target that would not happen. But is it because it was an air test with nothing for the circuit to "see" that it de-sensitized itself after a few passes? On soil I never noticed it doing that, and as long as I swept well past a target, the machine would keep "seeing" that target each time the coil passed over it.

My error then. The manual for V1.09 (pg 16) says that IF 8 in V1.09 is the same as pre- V1.09 default setting, which I assumed to be NO filtering. Makes me think of the old expression that "assume" makes an "ass" out of you and me. I should have asked rather than assumed. I guess I had it backwards. You're saying the previous V1.05/V1.07 by default was HIGH iron filtering then. I had it opposite I guess thinking the earlier versions had NO iron filtering. So by selecting IF 1 I would be eliminating (or reducing) Iron Filtering (or turning it down as much as possible at least). Thanks-

Good point on the staples coming from prospecting. Finding staples made me think of office paperwork, but they are used for many things really. You mention 40Khz "runs smooth" meaning more stable, or less chatty? I have not tried single frequency yet to be honest so don't have any basis for comparison. BTW, How does the Legend stack up for very small gold compared to the Gold Monster 1000 and the Gold Bug Pro? I know the GB 2 is supposed to be more sensitive to tiny gold than the GB Pro, but the GB Pro is reputed to be more user friendly. Lots of folks here in AZ use the GB 2 and the Gold Monster 1000 so they are both very well thought of. No one I know has a Legend, though it generates curiosity. Funny how there are misconceptions out there, though with some machines. I find the TDI P-I machine is fairly sensitive (on lead as I haven't found gold with it) and a pleasure to use (I LIKE the weird sound it seem intuitive), but the sound seems to drive some people around me nuts where I've used it. Everyone says P-I is only good for deep targets, but it seems good for shallow ones as well. I only have an hour of using it, though, so maybe I just don't know the machine well enough yet. Until I can get out often enough in real conditions I am at a disadvantage, especially w/ the Legend given all the steps to program all the features since you have to go through menus to get to adjustments. Eventually I know it will be second nature like all things. One thing that surprised me: I found the Legend makes a GB 2 virtually UNUSABLE closer then 20ft due to emitted radiation. The GB 2 goes into loud oscillation inside that 20ft radius. It's not friendly with at least some other VLF machines for sure. I have not heard that mentioned anywhere before I experienced it. I had to go far away so my buddy could use his GB 2 to verify or compare a target response unless I turned my Legend off completely. Bob

Curious- First Thanks! Manual says: Default is same as Iron Filter 8, which is no filtering as on pre 1.09 software. I've read that under some conditions gold at low numbers can appear as iron (though it wouldn't likely show as ferrous). Manual says, "Lower IF Settings will increase the probability of ferrous targets to be classified as non-ferrous targets and vice versa." Asking to learn (not disagreeing). Manual says "IF allows nonferrous targets in trashy sites, previously masked by iron, to be detectable." It would seem that running a strong IF (lower #) allows ferrous and non-ferrous metals to be read the same. I guess my question would be why one would want that? I'm sure there is a good reason I am not seeing, so your answer would educate me (the goal of the post, of course). I have not downloaded v1.10. I just read the "new features" of that version. Do you find the new features useful? (I had a hassle loading 1.09 and not sure if I solved he problem of how to do it, or if 1.10 will be a hassle as well). If you think it's a GOOD thing, I will attempt it. You use MultiFreq because it's more stable, or more sensitive to very small gold? And yes, I should have kept a tiny piece of lead to practice on. Unfortunately where I live the ground is SO full of EMI all around I cannot use a metal detector at all which makes practicing difficult, though I have not tried the P-I detector. Not sure if it is susceptible though it sure cuts through mineralization and hot rocks like they're not even there (though in Australia not necessarily true). Bob

Purchased my Nokta Legend (1.09 Software version) 95% for small gold in Arizona desert and washes hoping to do better on tiny gold than my MXT. I was finding individual paper staples near-surface with the MXT (What were they doing in a semi-remote desert wash??), which are small (0.8gr/0.07gr), but typical gold size is smaller than those staples, and the MXT wouldn't find that small a particle. My friend's GB 2 easily did 1/4th staple, though I don't expect that level of performance of the Legend. Has anyone used theirs for this style of use enough to have best, or favorite custom settings that "best' the default settings? The Legend offers SO many menus/parameters that can be custom set, I feel a bit lost picking my way through the multitude of menus and sub-menus. My previous units were Whites knob-set detectors (MXT and now a TDI P-I unit I recently acquired) that were more intuitive and easier to work with IMO. I've only been out with it a few times due to lack of capable 4WD so far (which will be remedied when we get a house with an RV gate to park one, since my current HOA will violate/fine for driveway parking, especially with a truck or Jeep), but using the 6" search coil I found some tiny ricochet bullet lead fragments and small bird shot in crevices on recent outings, but I'm sure I could do better than default settings. Is MultiFreq better than 40Kz alone (I know the higher the better w/ teh GB 2 at 71Khz)? Instruction manual lacking for prospecting. I did a search here, but came up empty unless I phrased the search poorly. Thanks, Bob BTW, The remote washes are pretty devoid of typical trash. No aluminum yet, just some bullet or birdshot lead and the aforementioned staples. And a 1/4-20 steel nut FAR from any tire tracks (maybe from a long ways away where a trail crossed the wash).

Updating to V1.09 (or other upgrades) for The Legend This series of steps worked for me when other did not. Try it if nothing else works! 1) Go to Nokia Website 2) Click on "Metal Detectors", and select "Coin and Relic," and then "The Legend" 3) Scroll Down to, and Click "Software Update" in the Left Column 4) Scroll to " Download: The Legend Update Tool (Windows) Includes System Software V1.09 - V1.07 - V1.05". and click once to Download to your Computer 5) Monitor the Download on the Lower Left of your screen... 6) When the Download is complete, Click : "Show in Folder" 7) Right Click on the highlighted file you downloaded, and click "Unzip All" 😎 You should have a File Called "the_legend_update_tool_v1_6_win"* containing 2 Unzipped Files. One will be"CP210_Windows_ Drivers," and "The_Legend_Update_Tool" *Other files may have different names, of course. 9) Double Click on the "CP210_Windows_ Drivers" File and when it expands, double click on the "X64" and follow the instructions to load the drivers on your computer* *Once you've downloaded and installed the drivers, you won't have to install those again. 10) Double Click on the file: "The_Legend_Update_Tool" (or the upgrade you wish) and click "Run" and follow the instructions precisely, plugging the Legend into your USB Port when asked . Note for Update, after completing the above, do a Factory Reset (Step 8 under V1.09 Features shown below the new features of your download). When you do Step 10 (above) a Step-by-Step tutorial video will open that will lead you through the complete process precisely, Good luck, and if you have corrections, let me know and I will revise my post! Bob

NOTE: This is a 3-Part Post on my attempts to upgrade my Legend. It FINALLY worked, so really no need to read it UNLESS you found your way here after multiple Update Attempts failed as in my case. I hope that my story may assist other possibly as technically challenged as I. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I downloaded the V1.09 Windows file and extracted the zipped contacts. The folder now contained: "the-legend-update.....zip" The files that appeared did NOT look like in Phrunt's video. After Extraction I had: "The-legend-update-tool-v1-6-win" I double clicked it (figuring since he was installing V1.07 and the new one is V1.09 it might look a bit different) and now had two files in my folder: "CP210X-Windows-Drivers" and "The-Legend-Update-Tool" It did NOT ask if I wanted a desktop shortcut. I also did not get a green Install Bar Progress Display as he did, nor did it say "Installing USB Drivers." I did not get a "Launch Nokta Detector Update Tool" page I did not get a "Connect the Device" Page as shown. The next step on his video was to connect the Legend (turned OFF) to the computer, which I did and the screen flashed briefly (another site said this is normal), and I held the UP button on the legend and the word "UP" appeared on my Legend screen. Then absolutely nothing happened on my detector or my computer screen. I waited...NOTHING I unplugged my Legend USB and made sure the detector still worked, and it loaded Version 1.07 fine, so I shut it down and tried again. This time when I got "UP" on my Legend the computer said it did not recognize the USB device plugged into it and it did not load. Has anyone else used Phrunt's Step-By-Step for the 1.09 Update? Did you get what HE got on your screen or what I got? Something is definitely wrong. Not sure where to go from here... Bob ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Update- I got out a newer laptop with Windows 10 on it figuring it may work better. Downloaded the Update Tool w/ V1.09 on it. Unzipped it. Plugged the Legend into the W10 machine. I think I installed the Drivers correctly per the tutorial. Per tutorial I unplugged the Legend and plugged it back in again (screen flashed on/off) I didn't see the screen "Searching for The Legend" as on the tutorial, but I presses the UP Button until UP appeared on my screen per instructions. I THOUGHT the rest of the install went OK and my Legend went from UP to turning itself on, but V1.07 remained on the screen. I attempted to do a Factory Reset (Hold the pinpoint button until Fd appears), but it never did display that and the Legend still shows V1.07. This tutorial didn't mention the Bluetooth being on, but I did select Bluetooth ("1" is displayed) prior to attempting an update, but because I do not have my headset turned ON, the Bluetooth symbol at the top was just flashing rather than steady. Somewhere I read the headset does not actually have to be connected to do the update, just the Legend has to have it "On." So what should I try next? Thanks, Bob I might mention that when I tried installing V1.09 a second time, after plugging my Legend into my Win10 computer, it ALSO warned me a USB device was plugged in it did not recognize or it was malfunctioning as my Win7 machine said on the second try as well. Not sure if that means anything. _________________________________________________________________________________________________ Update #2 I do not give up easily, so continued to futz around, deleting the downloaded Updates and Unzipped Updates numerous times (feeling possibly corrupted downloads), and trying again over and over. I FINALLY succeeded, but decided to leave the sad tale of woe here for the next unfortunate who may have trouble so s/he wont give up! I will return and add an addendum to this thread with the Step-by-Step that I did that FINALLY worked. I cannot be sure I didn't do it this way a few times that didn't work (why wouldn't it?), but I am going to type it out anyway since it is different from the above offered descriptions as far as loading the drivers and using the update tool, as it took manual intervention to make it all happen. Maybe this was true for everyone (who are probably far more computer savvy than I so they didn't think to mention the steps I will put in my description), and I am the only one not knowing manual inputs are necessary, so I will be wasting my time for people smarter than I, but just in case there are other future Legend owners out there like me, I'll do it anyway. But the GOOD news for me is that I got the V1.09 installed successfully, I did a factory reset, then installed the Threshold Audio, did another Factory Reset, and all seems well. Thanks to those who tried to nudge me in the right direction! BTW, I spent almost 4 solid hours at this before it finally worked, so don't give up if you have computers that don't want to play nice with our Legend. I cannot believe I spent as much time and as many tries as it did, but it all came together in the last 10 minutes when it finally did, so just keep at it. Hopefully V1.10 will go as smoothly when it comes out (Please, from my lips to God's ears.) Bob