Monte

'Thank You' for that info. i have the 9" X-35 coil but have used it only a little the first time i had one and that was a year ago. i spend most hunt-time in very trashy and / or very brushy areas and the 5x9½ DD HF coil has been working well for me and my two programs with the ORX. I plan to use the 9" X-35 more this summer to see if I can get to like it , but for my need and site conditions I'm not so certain it will out-perform or even match the elliptical's behavior. I have worked the ORX in a variety of hunt sites, both urban and remote, and I have pretty much decided the ORX belongs in my 'get-serious' Relic Hunting team with my Nokta FORS CoRe and FORS Relic because these three hunt pretty well in dense iron nails and shards of rusty tin. My Tesoro favorites are also good performers in those old sites, and my Garrett Apex is also proving to be a contender, however those two Apex units I use, with a Ripper and a Raider coil for each, are my primary urban Coin & Jewelry Hunting devices. On my next Ghost Town adventure I'll take the 9" X-35 and give it a workout. Monte

Congratulations on your gold rush camp finds.👍 It's always a good time if you're finding those small "could-have-beens" as well as keepers, and I love finding any Seated Liberty coin as it is one of my favorite coin designs. Was your site fairly free from very dense iron contamination? Most of the gold mining era camps and townsites I have hunted in Oregon and Idaho have been hit-and-miss. Some have some Iron Nails and a little extra ferrous junk, and some are almost as bad as the old RR townsites I have really enjoyed. That means a lot of Iron Nails, plenty of ferrous and non-ferrous debris, and more shards of rusty tin that I care for. Due to dense trash as well as a lot of brush, overgrowth and rubble, smaller-size coils have worked well for me, but in some modestly cluttered places I can do OK with a mid-size coil .... if it is on a decent-performing detector. I use a selection of favorite detectors and coils, with one of them being the ORX, and I favor the 5X9½ DD HF coil. I'm curious which coil you were using on your Deus? Thanks, and best of success on your next old site. Monte

Rick, Nice finds, and I am always curious what detector and coil were used, and settings are also informative. Thanks, Monte

'dogodog', congratulations of both site selections as well as the resulting success. And while I also have a few "up-line" models with modern adjustment features and visual and audio Target ID, I also have my two very proven and very trusted Tesoro's that serve me well. Monte

The standard 'Viper' coil is okay for a lot of people and routine urban Coin Hunting in more open grassy areas, or it works on a plowed field, a beach or other more open areas. However, since I mainly hunted ghost towns 2with a lot of sagebrush and other confining and tangling brush, plus a lot of building rubble, I found it to be just a bit too big, especially in the front-to-rear elliptical length. If I wanted a little more converge as well as depth, I would like a little bigger (wider) coil. To work in the trashier areas I wanted a somewhat smaller-size coil to mid-size. Due to the 6X11 size, I class the 'Viper' as a larger coil and not a mid-size. Something in a round 7" to 9" or an elliptical such as a 5X8 or 5X9½ would be what I consider a mid-size coil. Garrett answered those two needs for me with the 5X8 DD 'Ripper' and the 8½X11 'Raider' coils. Those stay on my two mostlv used Apex devices, with the primary-use unit sporting the 'Ripper' coil. Lighter, nicely balanced, and it fits in and works around most of the sites I encounter. My 'Custom' mode starts up in MF and, surprisingly, the Apex works well in most applications and stays rather stabile. When I do take on EMI, before reducing the Sensitivity, I check the optional Single Frequency choices and most often settle on either 10 kHz or 15 kHz. Both quieter operation and continued good performance. Sometimes even a slight 'edge' over MF. Yes, the Apex audio is a little different and, like all detectors, just needs to be used to be learned. As for depth-of-detection, I have done well with my Apex devices against other makes and modes I own or others I have compared them with. I start out with any detector at, or very near, full Sensitivity and reduce it only as needed for stability. The depth I am achieving is very good so far and comparable, or better, than the other models I have when using comparable-size search coils. Monte

I have the 2.77 update in two Simplex + units, usually run in the newer Park 1 mode but also in both Field and Beach modes. Target ID has been rather stabile and consistent with both of them, and that's using both the 5X9½" DD as well as the less-used standard 11" DD. I do not reject much, either, so I am hearing a lot of ferrous and non-ferrous targets, and I hunt in a variety of ground mineral environments. The Simplex VDI has been more consistent than a lot of other detectors I have used, with most targets running from surface down to ±7". For the record, I usually have all modes operating at Full Sensitivity and I only reduce it if there is EMI, and only enough to stabilize the device. I seldom, if ever, use Park 2 mode. The other three modes, Field, Park 1 and Beach, are all running wide-open and Accepting ALL of the Disc. segments to hear ferrous as well as non-ferrous, except I have rejected only the first Disc. segment in the Beach mode. Monte

kac, way-to-go on your hunt success. Let others poo-poo the idea of hunting old RR routes as well as other long-gone routes of stages and such. I love them and have been looking for and working them since '69. As for the Garrett Apex, I really enjoy mine, with my main-use unit using the 'Ripper' coil and the 2nd sports the 'Raider' coil for more open areas with limited masking trash. They operate quite well even in higher EMI challenged locations and, at times, I also have to drop the Sensitivity level down 2 to 3 segments .... and it quiets up easily. Also, I have an e-mail from you and haven't had the opportunity to respond. I will in a day or so. Sorry. Monte

Congratulations on some successful hunt results. I really enjoy **most** permissions to hunt old home sites and have done well through the years until recently. Got 'permission' to hunt an 88 year old property with a house built in 1933 on .52 Ac. lot. I figured there would be a fair amount of older coins and small artifacts and plenty of silver coins to make for more than one enjoyable day. Well, not one single silver coin yet. No Indang Heads, No Buffalo Nickels, Nothing really exciting than only 5 Wheat-Back Cents with over 200 modern coins recovered so far. The bad news is that it is a very slow producer and the only good news is that I bought the home in May and have been busy with a remodel. So I have full-time / any-time 'permission' and won't give up trying to find something good. However, I can only punish myself so much and have been busy working on getting the OK from folks to hunt their dated properties when the weather eases up a bit. I have a good 'loaner unit' so I can invite them to join in the fun. Monte

Tom in Arizona, your sister did a beautiful job on that shadow box. I really like the way she did the backdrop in each of the little books. In preparing for this move I made to Texas, I was cleaning out a lot of stuff and we had a couple of yard sales where I sold off most of the old nick nack stuff I had collected the last several years. I guess collected isn't the best term cuz that sounds like a specific intent to hang on to something that was really cool where in the long run he was really just all that stuff sitting around that I had gathered from outings. I think I'm going to start hanging on to more what I find gather up some of what I have left around just to have some shadow boxes made. They would look great in my new den which is going to be the remodeled original living room. Now, if I could find some way to twist her arm and use her talents to make them for me (at a cost, of course) that would be great. Monte

Tom, knowing the types of sites you hunt, and the opportunities than come with those being from California's early-era, there's no doubt #17 just might be on your next journey afield. As for me and my dry spell, with over 56 years of very avid detecting, and concentrating on ghost towns and similar old-use locations since July of '83, I still only have one gold coin accounted for. 1912 $2.50 (One near newer would have been nice!) Summer of 1978 The small town I lived in, and found behind the old general store. Detector I was using at the time was a Garrett GroundHog, 15 kHz, w/7" Coil I am fortunate that I have made a lot of friends in over half-a-century of metal detecting activity. Sadly, many of hem were older than I was and as time has passed, so have many of them. There have been a lot of newcomers to this great sport as well, and I still hear from or get to meet up with some who were around when we got a couple of clubs started in '81 and another in '85. Then there have been those who have already put in some good hunt time, but getting to know them and learn from them has also been part of my rewards. I'm not stingy and as much as I try to do what I can to help others with questions and 'How-To' understanding, I am also ways ready to learn more since we never know-it-all. Outings? I have coordinated, or helped put together, small group gatherings dating back to about 1976, partly for the fun of finding stuff at potential sites, but mainly for the benefits of meeting up with others to enjoy their company and share their success afield. I had held about a half-dozen Outings with a local group of gatherers in the Portland, Orgon metro area that started about a dozen years ago. Then I decided I ought to put out an open-door opportunity for anyone from anywhere to come join a group of adventurers for some ghost town hunting. All but one of the WTHO's have involved ghost towns in both Oregon and Nevada, and we've averaged 15 to 25 attendees per Outing. They were not initially down just to involve friends or people I already knew, but to open the opportunities for all of us to meet up with others who share an interest in this great sport, and doing so we meet and make new friends. With the opportunity to maybe make a nice find or two, it is a win-win event. I seldom turn down an opportunity to try nd share a bit of what I have learned, that's true. nd I do have a little fun when I do my day-long classroom seminars, since 1981, when I get to share some personal experiences in 'story-form' that, in the end, convey an educational message to help get a point across. Hosting Outings is a lot of fun. Finding new and exciting places that provide an assortment of locations for folks to spread out to, now that's the challenge. You were fortunate to still get started early-on when we had a good variety of detectors and went through the fast 'growing-process' in detector design. Yes, about 10 years or so. I was 15 when I built my first Metal / Mineral Locator in march of '65, but I turned 16 two months later and that provided me with the opportunity to have my license and drive which was better than toting that home-built contraption around on my bicycle. So far I have only had success once getting owner's permission to hunt a ghost town they owned ... at least sort of. They didn't want to give anyone permission, and definitely nothing in writing, because if someone stepped on a nail or otherwise got hurt they didn't want to be sued. When asked, their reply was No, except I had approached them a couple of times, going back to when I wanted to buy the barren townsite from them, and they simply said: "We aren't going to say 'Yes', and we don't want to know when you visit the place or what kind of junk you might find ... But we will simply say "Good Luck!" The gal had inherited the townsite out in the desert, but had never seen the place. Her husband drove out there one time and when I talked to them the first and second time all he told e was that there's nothing there. Just a bunch of sagebrush, weeds, holes, scattered rusty old car parts, and broken glass and junk. I agreed, it was very trashy with a lot of Iron nails and other assorts debris. I let them know that I had been out that way rabbit hunting a lot dating back to about 1967 so I know there are a lot of spent .22 LR cases and bullets in the mix. They didn't now much about the metal detecting hobby, and both were a good bit older than me at the time. I told them I have been enjoying this great sport since the summer of '65 and liked to look around any old sites that might have a lot coin or two. I did tell them when asked it I ever found a coin out there that I did find a 1927 Wheat-Penny back in May of '69. That didn't seem to excite them much. I didn't. however. expand on my success rate or that I had been working the location since the summer of '83, very often, and that it was, and still is, the most productive hunt site I have ever hunted. Since the early '70s I have usually assigned a name to different places I like to hunt just so others don't catch on to where I am reaping my rewards, and that goes for my favorite ghost town (or any site) that I named 'Twin Flats'. By the turn of this century I had recovered enough coins from there to put in 2X2 cards and fill four binders with a small bunch left to be cleaned and carded. One old townsite, hundreds of coins, and many interesting experiences as I shared a lot of detecting trips with good friends. And I know, first-hand and by reported tales, that it produced at least one $2.50, $5, $10 and $20 gold coin. The $5 coin find is one of the 'educational' stories I relate in my seminars. It was a very choice-condition 1880 CC variety recovered at about 2", by a good friend and detecting buddy, in October of '86 after I sold her a Tesoro Silver Sabre w/7" Concentric coil in May. A good way to get started in this great sport. Sorry to ramble, but I guess that's nothing new for me. I hope you can make a future WTHO and meet a wonderful group of participants. Monte

Now if we could just figure some way to convince Tom in California come join us an Outing, we'd have one more skilled and interesting person to join a great bunch of people who attend. Besides, we've had 13 WTHO's without a gold coin being found yet so maybe Tom can bring his good fortune make a change in that. Monte

I know you're replying to 'GB' but I had a few vaqueros and while the 8X9 Concentric works in moderate trash, the 6" Concentric is definitely the way to go in any trashier condition. Correct, DD coils do not handle dens Iron nails like a Concentric coil ... on most Tesoro models. In the end it gels down to the detector's circuitry design and smaller DD coils work well on my Relic, Simplex +, ORX and Apex devices. All of those, and my two Tesoro's, out=perform several 'modern' detectors on a few dense Iron Nail Test, to include the Equinox, Vanquish, T2 and F-75 models to name a few. That said, I wish Garrett would make their 4½" Concentric coil for the Apex. I also like the trigger-toggle on the Tejón, which is also why I like the thumb-toggle on my Bandido II µMAX over the Disc. control operated All Metal selector design of the Vaquero. I also wish more detectors provided a variable Tone control like the Tejón. Monte

The Tesoro Vaquero would have been a handy detector to have along, if it had the small 6" Concentric coil. I've had 3 Vaqueros and the only one I liked was the last one after I had Tesoro give it the High-Tone mode. I don't like the standard Low-Tone. It does have a slight depth-of-detection edge' over my favorite Tesoro's ... slight ... but overall in-the-field performance I prefer my Bandido II microMAX w/6" Concentric coil. Why, some might ask? Because I think it has a cleaner rejection in the lower Iron Audio to lower Non-Ferrous range, but since I like to use the All Metal mode periodically, I can toggle in and out of All Metal with the Bandido II microMAX w/o having to mess with the variable Disc. setting to swish to All Metal with the Vaquero. I always have a Silver Sabre microMAX (µMAX) in my vehicle for any incidental opportunity t get out detecting. On a prolonged detecting jaunt I will replace it with a Bandido II microMAX or simply add that in with the other units. It, too, keeps a 6" Concentric coil mounted full-time. In short, I never go detecting without having at least one good Tesoro along. I hope you can find a good 6" Concentric coil for the Vaquero, or swap it off for a different good Tesoro w/6" Concentric coil. A good-working Tesoro with a functional small, Concentric coil makes a terrific complement to any detector outfit. I have my Nokta Relic w/5" DD because that 19 kHz device works great and can pretty much match my Tesoro's performance in very dense Iron Nails. The Relic is my specially-assigned Relic Hunting unit for 'Toano-type' old sites. The FORS CoRe and then the FORS Relic with their smaller coils, easily replaced the Teknetics T2's and Fisher F-75's I had, along with quite a few other detectors. But not my Tesoro favorites. As for the 8X9 'Out-Of-Round' Concentric coil, yes, it can work reasonably well. In testing I have done or witnessed with the Tejón using Tesoro's 8½X11, 6X10, and NEL's 5X9½ Sharpshooter DD coils, they failed terribly to handle the 4 Iron nails on my Nail Board Performance Test, but when he/they mounted the stock 8X9 Concentric they had commendable performance. But any coil over a 7" diameter, and actually a 7' coil today, I consider a mid-sized coil along with an 8", 8X9, 5X8 or 5X9½. I'll use any of these mid-sized coils in a moderately littered site, but when the going gets tough, and the ghost towns I enjoy hunting usually are, I favor a good smaller size coil in the 4½" to 6" or perhaps 6½" diameter. Also, if I have the option, I like a Concentric over a Double-D. You had a good coil on the F-75 for a lot of the area in a lot of those old Nevada townsites, and a 6" DD on an Equinox can also do okay. Now, let's get busy figuring out a few old sites to put together another WTHO! Monte

In just over 56 years of hunting, ghost towns and similar Relic Hunting related sites have occupied 95% of my detecting effort since July of '83. That's 38 years of 'education', having fun, and making a lot of terrific finds. old townsites I've worked the most have been in Utah, Nevada and Oregon, but i have enjoyed some experiences in Idaho, Wyoming, Colorado, California, New Mexico and Arizona. I think you ought to experience a new adventure! Get out and work some ghost towns and, if interested, e-mail me contact info to get on the WTHO Contact List and be informed of future Outings. Monte

Well, GB_Amateur, you gave us all a nice write-up of another eventful and fun WTHO. I'm pleased that you, your sister and several others were able to make this recent Welcome-to-Hunt Outing. A you noted, it was our 13th Outing and we have averaged 15 to 25 people per outing, and this one had 22, if my head-count was correct. Also as you noted, this was your first 'official' Ghost Town hunt, and while I have searched dozens of old townsites since my first in May of '69 (and it was also a RR townsite), there have only been a small percentage of them that you could call moderately littered with iron debris. I'm sure you found all of them, especially the oldest RR town to have more than an ample supply of Iron Nails, Rusty Tin, and a good assortment of ferrous junk. You were using two adequate detectors to take on the challenges of those sites, and I appreciate your photos of objects found. It lets readers know the reality of hunting those once alive towns where there is a lot to create a detector response other than coins, trade tokens and fine gold and silver jewelry. In addition to the discarded metal debris, both ferrous and non-ferrous, you get to deal with building rubble, sagebrush and other out-of-control vegetation, and it is wide wo select a detector that can work well, deal with good-target masking, and allow the use of a smaller-size search coil. Then, work them in a slow and methodical manner to best cover an area. Ghost town hunting is fun, but sometimes challenging, yet I think everyone ought to give it a try. If anyone is interested in getting on our Welcome-to-Hunt Outing Contact List, all they need to do is e-mail me with that request and provide their Name, Mailing Address, Phone Number and E-Mail. Reviewing your post you have the locations correct, their relative age, and the number of participants, which was 22. The only oversight that caught my eye was the 12½¢ Trade Token which was found by OregonGregg and not UtahRich. I do regret not being able to make that Outing and meeting up with both new and familiar faces. I'm glad you enjoyed the experience and trust you'll be able to make another future WTHO. Keep up the detecting! Monte

►► Discrimination use and 'Cherry Picking' higher-conductive targets is an interesting concept and discussion on its own and still gets down to he particular detector circuitry design. True, it is possible to increase the Disc. setting so as to audibly reject lower and mid-conductive targets to try and isolate only the higher-conductive targets such as Copper Cents plus Clad and Silver Dimes, Quarters, Halves and Dollars. As a rule, most of the available targets when rejecting a lot of lower-conductive trash also suggests the desired targets are relatively shallow and free of good-target masking. That's good because with most detectors, a higher Disc. setting is often going to reduce the potential depth-of-detection to some degree, and it will also have an effect on the response-potential for targets close-to the Disc. break-point for acceptance an rejection. I was out detecting for an hour or so this afternoon here at the 88 year-old house I'm at, and due to the heat and my health limitations ... combined with the abundance of discarded trash such as pull-tabs, pry-tabs and bottle caps ... I just worked sections of the yard and was 'cherry-picking' in search of Wheat-backs and Silver. Today I used my Garrett Apex w/'Ripper' mid-size DD coil and had my Disc. set to accept everything from '20' on up in my Custom program. I also swapped over to my XP ORX with its mid-size 5X9½ DD HF coil and the Discrimination was set to my saved '7' setting. So, how was that 'cherry-picking' some would ask? With the Apex I had my Iron Audio Volume set at '2' and working Volume maxed out at '8'. Also, with the 5-Tone Apex nd 3-Tone ORX, I relied partly on listening for the mid-high and high tones, and my 'cherry-picking' was handled by me glancing at the visual VDI display and simply ignoring all target responses that suggested they were Iron or in the lower Foil to Tab range. Simply ignoring undesired targets by audio Tone and visual ID read-out. I didn't want to increase the Disc. rejection to the point that it would inhibit good-target detection. ►► Search coil selection, for the best size and shape and internal design, combined with search coil sweep speed, over-lapping, and coil-control to thoroughly cover a site, are far more important than many might believe. Especially since about 1988 when we saw a new 'trend' to make detectors with larger-size 'standard' coils, and that was soon followed by another 'trend' to make more coils a Double-D design rather than Concentric. I started using DD coils when they were first introduced by Compass Electronics back in '71, and on the conventional TR's they worked quite well. The TR-Disc. models, however, didn't perform as well when it came to Discrimination as the Concentric or Co-Planer types which became more popular, at least for a long time. Due to the DD coil's overlapped winding orientation we often get different target responses from a left-to-right sweep than we do from a right-to-left sweep when compared to the more consistent audio response and behavior of a similar-size Concentric coil. But the 'trend' continues and many manufacturers do not make Concentric coils for many or any models, plus quite a few detectors were designed for a DD coil design because that was all that was available. Kind of sad. Worse yet, in my opinion, is how so many detectors are offered with larger-size search coils. So many think about 'depth and wanting to 'go deeper' when, in reality, they can't due to having too much shallower trash targets to contend with. Good-target masking is not handled well with bigger coils, but by smaller-size coils that are definitely smaller or maybe a mid-size coil. A full 5½ decades of very successful detecting, finding more coins, especially in those earlier days from '68 to about '85, when lost coins were so plentiful, and the vast majority came my way when I was working a smaller-size to maybe a mid-size coil. Very, very seldom did I opt of a bigger coil, simply because they were not all that necessary, or functional when hunting dense debris sites. Guess what? They still are not that necessary because our more modern detectors can sometimes work better, the coils might work better, and they increased the detection-depth for many detectors with the right smaller-to-medium coil. I still favor smaller-size coils to a mid-size coil as long as the detector provides the needed performance. I very seldom swap coils, and keep each unit I have at-the-ready with the coil it will most often use. I have 8 detectors in my regular-use outfit as follows, from smaller-size coil to that largest size: Nokta FORS Relic w/5" DD Garrett pex w/NEL 5" DD Tesoro Bandido II µMAX w/6" Concentric Tesoro Silver Sabre µMAX w/6" Concentric Garrett Apex w/'Ripper' (5X8) DD Nokta / Makro Simplex + w/5X9½ DD XP ORX w/5X9½ DD and my one bigger-size combination, Garrett Apex w/'Raider' (8½X11) DD coil. Some of these circuitry design can offer a little faster sweep speed, but most often I prefer a slow-to-moderate sweep speed, overlap a lot, and take my time covering an area thoroughly. The smaller and mid-size coils can work quite well.👍 Monte

#1.. Yes, a smaller-size search coil can or might help, but only to the limits of the detector's circuitry design combined with the operator' sweep technique and coil control. Additionally, regardless of the coil SIZE, you also have to factor in the coil SHAPE and coil TYPE (such as Concentric Vs Double-D) along with how a particular detector model was designed and/or is capable of functional well with. #2.. 'Miracles' don't seem to happen in an electronically-controlled hobby such as metal detecting. You do things right or you do things wrong. You get lucky or you miss out. There are good days and there are bad days. But one thing for sure, if detector selection and coil applications are in your favor, a 5" or similar small-sized coil can be a significant help. #3.. Yes, knowing what make and model detector as well as what size and type of search coil you are using is important. One reason is because regardless of coil size, some makes and models do no handle things like dense Iron Nail trash conditions well, while on the other-hand, some makes and models work exceptionally well. #4.. Are you referring to the Fisher 11" BiAxial coil which is close to about a 7X11 DD" The "BiAxial" simply means it is a Double-D design. That coil, like most others of a comparable size, can sometimes do reasonably well in 'separation' as long as the site isn't too heavily covered with undesirable metal targets that are positioned too closely to 'keepers'. #5.. Good question, and NO is the answer when it comes to matching search coil size and type on different makes and models, even within the same brand. Some of the reason has to do with the type of trash and hunt site as well as the close-proximity masking effects. Folks need to know what causes "target masking" and then learn to deal with it. Although you can consider a detector's Operating Frequency, Sensitivity Level, Discriminate Level, and other functions of some models, such as Reactivity or Iron Bias, etc., etc., in the end it really gets down to how well the circuitry was designed to handle both ferrous and non-ferrous audio responses, their effects on a total received signal, and how well they can respond-to and recover-from audio responses from ferrous-based targets. A quick example: I can use my Nail Board Performance Test with 4 Iron Nails that surround an Indian Head Cent just as initially discovered / encountered in a Utah ghost town. I can sweep the 4 marked routes, from the left nd from the right which makes a possible 8-out-of-8 hits. I can get 8 solid, repeatable hits with either of my Tesoro models with their 6" coils, or with a 7" Concentric or 8" Concentric. I can get 8 solid hits with a Nokta FORS CoRe or FORS Relic with their 5" DD coils, and 7-out-of-8 with their mid-sized 5X9½ DD coils. I get 7-out-of-8 with a Nokta / Makro Simplex + w/5X9½ DD, and also with a Garrett Apex with their mid-sized 'Ripper' or 'Viper' DD coils or their larger 'Raider' DD coil that measures 8½X11. My XP ORX w/5X9½ DD can also get 7 or 8-out-of-8. I used to use a Teknetics T2+ and with their smaller 5" DD coil I would get 5-out-of-8 for sure, nd sometimes 6-out-of-8. A Minelab Vanquish 540 with 5X8 DD would hit on it usually 6-out-of-8 times unless swept too fast, then it dropped to only 4 or 5 good hits. However, put a small 5" DD on a Teknetics Omega 8000 or 8500 or Fisher F-44 and you'd be lucky to get more than 2 good hits out-of-8. A friend bought a Tesoro Tejón w. Tesoro's 6X10 DD, 8½X11 DD and a NEL 5X9½ SDD Sharpshooter coil. On the NBPT he used a Barber Dime, GBed, and checked the target out. All three coils failed to produce more than 1 or a questionable 2 hits out of a possible 8. He figured he needed a smaller coil, but I encouraged him to check the 'standard' 8X9 Concentric. That gave him a good 8-out-of-8 ... but their 6" Concentric would have been better for the nasty Iron-littered ghost towns we were hunting. #6.. Discrimination has its limits due to a target's size and shape. For example, the crown-type Bottle Caps that tend to produce a high VDI read-out on most of today's modern detectors. They suggest a Dime or Quarter. Part of that is due to more modern circuitry design. I never run my Discrimination higher than to just knock-out a Nail. More often it is just barely low enough to Accept the Iron Nail. #7.. The only way to "stack the odds in your favor" is to also accept the fact that you are going to miss a lot of d=good targets. You can 'cherry-pick' and go for the higher-conductive targets and trust they are plentiful, but the more Disc. you use, the fewer good targets or partially-masked targets you'll find. #8.. City Parks, private yards, beaches or plowed fields, the only way to find the most good targets is to systematically recover ALL targets, good and bad. #9.. High Discriminate Levels will reduce some of what you HEAR, but that Iron and other rejected trash is still going to have an effect on the EMF, and the higher you go, the more risk of impaired performance. #10.. Congrats on a couple of OK finds. I have found a lot of smaller-size good and costume jewelry with most of the detectors I enjoy using. Typically, they have a smaller-size or a mid-size coil mounted, and a low Disc. setting. Site selection is a key. Monte

I checked Garrett's website and it says 8 Ohm speakers. I'm still interested in checking them out as a set for a 'loaner', and who knows, I might be surprised. Monte

The N/M Green headphones are not bad, but the Minelab M80's are far more comfortable, and while a little larger, the Garrett MS-3's work just fine for me, any season. I haven't tried the MS'2s in any of my corded headphones, but if I recall they used 8 Ohm speakers and I haven't found a decent set of headphones yet at 8 Ohm, 16 Ohm or even 32 Ohm. My corded headphones are Killer B 'Wasp' and 'Hornet' and those are 150 Ohm speakers. However, I do have Garrett's Z-Lynk Tx and Rx wireless kit and can team the MS3's up with my Tesoro's, FORS Relic or other devices if desired. Oh, as for the Pulse-Dive Pointer, I am seldom chasing ear ring studs but have used it for that and it works. My Sensitivity is always on '5' or reduced to '4' if there's EMI. Monte

I use an [i]ORX[/i] with their Mi-6 pinpointer because I like to hear the pinpointer audio in my headphones. That combination works well except I can't get ample sensitivity from that Pinpointer. I also use a Simplex + with their green wireless headphones and Pulse-Dive Pinpointer. The detector and Pinpointer work fantastic, but the headphones leave a lot to be desired. They're not the most comfortable and they are not very loud for my impaired hearing. And as you mentioned, there is no volume control. Then we have the Apex with the MS-3 Headphones and AT Pro-Pointer w/Z-Lynk technology. This makes a fantastic trio for me because all components work very well in any hunt site application I take on. One reason the 'Apex Trio' is usually my first-grabbed and most-used outfit with the search coil of choice being factored in. Monte

You're welcome and I try to provide what help I can for others. Both by sharing my experiences afield or pointing out things for folks to learn to better understand how different makes and models work .... or don't work well, based on the hunting type and site challenges. None are perfect. As for for finding those elusive desirables, it can be interesting to reflect on the past efforts we put out. For example I consider my Seated Liberty recoveries. I have found them in major-size towns Igave hunted such as Portland Oregon and Salt Lake City Utah, but the majority have come from ghost towns associated with railroad activity or gold mining era activity. My all-time favorite Ghost Town produced an average of 30-35 Seated Liberty coins for each 1 Barber coin. That favorite town, which I named 'Twin Flats', I concentrated my efforts on starting in July of 1983 and it rewarded me with my one 1856 Trime as well as my nickel-type 3-Cent pieces, 2-Cent pieces, numerous Indian Head Cents, an 1851 Large Cent and my only Flying Eagle Cent. Frequent 'V' and Shield Nickels and my only Capped Bust coin, an 1836 Half-Dime. My Seated Liberty coins ranged from 1838 Half-Dimes and Dimes on up to 1891's, with the bulk of the Dimes, Quarters and Halves dated in the 1850's, '60s and '70s. One old high-traffic use RR and freighting-point ghost town that produced hundreds of coins for me. Enough to put in 2X2 cards and fill four binders with some leftovers to clean and card. And the surprise to me from decades of hard hunting is that I have never found a Seated Liberty coin from the 1840s. Earlier and later, but nothing from the 1840s. To do so is one of my bucket-listers more than finding another Trime. Just hang in there and keep trying by working the most probable sites you can, and I wish you all the best of success Monte

'dogodog', keep at it and never give up hope. Site selection is the #1 key to success, but a close #2 are the following things: -> Be patient at all times. -> Use the best coil to handle the conditions. -> Work a site slowly and methodically. -> Covder a site well ... that means overlapping and scooting the coil in and around dense brush and debris. -> Usethe least amount if Discrimination you cantollerate. -> Remember, all visual TID is only a 'suggestion' or 'electronicly-generated' 'guess' of what made a beep ... recover all good and reasonably iffy Audio hits and take a look to know for sure. -> Pick the best detector you can afford for the types of sites and conditions you'll face, opt for the best coil for the task, then learn and master it well. I only have one 'bucket-luster' coin to find, but I wouldn't mind finding more of any early-era coin. I have been fortunate to have enjoyed this sport a long, long time and searched a number of very productive places, with 99% of those being "Out West" here in the USA. In over 56 years of very avid detecting, I have found a lot of older coins. Seated Liberty coins have outnumbered Barber coins about 30-35 to 1, Indian Head Cents used to be numerous, I would get about 5-7 'V' Nickles for every 3-4 Shield Nickels depending upon the location. Large cents, 2-Cent pieces, 'nickel-type' 3-Cent pieces, Half-Dimes and more. But in all this time, ONLY ONE Half-Cent, Flying Eagle Cent ... and ONLY ONE silver Trime. But I never give up trying, and neither should you. Monte

I guess I was fortunate because I got my first Apex at the early release date so all my detecting at first was with the Viper coil. It is a good coil, and it will work fine for a lot of folks getting into this great sport .... until they learn the benefits of larger-size and smaller-size search coils.🙂 At the announcement of the release of their first two accessory coils, the Ripper and Raider, I secured both of those at the same time I got my second Apex. Since about 1972 I have enjoyed maintaining a few detectors in my outfit and keeping preferred coils mounted on certain detectors so that I just grabbed the detector / coil combination that I felt best suited my needs at a site. Plus, since 1968, I have preferred smaller size coils that range from about 41/2" to maybe 61/2"-7" DD for the bulk of my hunting needs. Why, some might ask? For two reasons. One is that most of the sites I typically hunt have a lot of trash and / or are very brushy and the confined space amongst all the trash or interfering brush calls for a smaller coil for best performance. The second reason is that most of the good targets I have found in the past decades we're relatively shallow, such as surface to maybe 4" or 5". And the same holds true today, because I hunt sites that are very brushy, have a lot of building rubble, and / or there's just a lot of closely scattered debris. Smaller size coils, to some midsize coils, work okay in those conditions. When I do work a site that is more open, such as a plowed field, a beach, a wide-open grassy park or sports field where I have fewer masking targets and can achieve a little improved depth on small-size targets such as coins, then I opted for what today is a standard coil or what we used to consider a larger or oversized coil. As I said, the Viper coil is a good coil but it's not for me for most of my search needs . The Ripper coil, with its nice open-frame 5X8 size, is ideal and that coil on my Apex is my most-used combination . On my 2nd Apex I keep the Raider coil mounted full-time. Although that 81/2X11 open–frame design is close to standard on many detectors today, it's actually what we used to call a larger-than-standard size coil .... and for me, it still is. That is mainly because I am usually searching for smaller size objects such as coins, trade tokens, buttons, bullets, thimbles, jewelry and all sorts of smaller-size objects. When you get to search coils larger than that you will soon come to a point where their performance and the detectors responsiveness on smaller-sized targets starts to diminish because the trade-off is that the bigger coils are best suited for finding bigger targets. I'm enjoying your review of the Apex and available search coils. I do have 3 of the Apex devices, and I'm hoping Garrett will make a smaller size round coil, such as their 41/2" Concentric, for the Apex. Until then, I have a 5" NEL Sharp mounted on that unit. Yes, I have a Viper coil available. I keep mine mounted on a spare lower rod in my Accessory Coil Tote but seldom opt for it because the Ripper & Raider team work so well. Besides, I do have a 4th Apex w/Viper on-hand and that I use as a loaner-unit for friends and family. So far, all users have been very satisfied with that combination when we've been out detecting together. I'm looking forward to your report on the Raider coil once you've had the opportunity to check it out in some of your hunt sites. Until then, enjoy your success with Garrett's excellent Apex detector Monte

I have been following your comments in this thread, and I have to agree wholeheartedly that the Garrett Apex is a very, very good detector. I generally have a big assortment of detectors but in the last year or two, due to health issues, I've been thinning my detector outfit down. I have several detectors that are very proven performers a field for me, to include my FORS Relic, Simplex +, Bandido II microMAX & Silver Sabre microMAX and ORX. I use them all as needed, however my most frequently used detector(s) are my three Apex devices. My primary use Apex keeps the Ripper coil mounted full time. For open areas such as plowed fields or a Beach, my second Apex has the Raider coil mounted full-time. For the most littered sites with confined spaces where I need to try and fit in a smaller size coil, I have a NEL 5" DD attached to my third Apex. I did have a Vanquish 540 as a loaner unit for friends and family, but I traded it off to pick up the 4th new Apex the end of March. I keep the standard Viper coil attached to it, and it is my loaner unit. No, it is not waterproof, but I don't need waterproof. No, it does not have a threshold based all metal mode, but I have that available on some of my other models. The Apex does have, however, a well-designed circuitry, a good selection of available search coils, and it has been proving it's performance afield for me ever since its release, and most of the places I have been hunting are quite challenging with a lot of iron trash contamination. The Apex is lightweight and very handy to use, features simple adjustment functions, and continues to reward me every time I go out detecting. I feel Garrett did their homework and entered the SMF world with a very decent entry level model for this market. Monte

Steve, I agree on both of these points. As soon as the MX-5 was introduced I snapped one up quickly, attached the 6½" Concentric coil, and took it out Coin & Jewelry Hunting. At the time I was using my MXT Pro as my primary detector and had an M-6 for tote-around urban hunting. I liked the feel and balance and performance of the MX-5 so much that it became my main-use tool for that task and I sold the M-6. I wish it would have had a Tracking or Track-Lock function, but most of all I didn't like the side-positioned headphone jack on the control housing. When they fixed all the glitches in the MX Sport and then made the move to package it in a lighter-weight land-based package as the MX-7, I was very pleased. They redesigned the battery housing under the arm-cup to have the ¼" headphone jack in the proper location.👍 I like a lot of the newer circuitry design of the MX-7, but it didn't totally over-shadow the way the MX-5 performed. Then the other two things I really like are the option of using quality Alkaline AA's or good NiMH rechargeable batteries. Like you, I hope they keep that concept rather than go fully Lithium rechargeable. And finally, while I do enjoy my wired Killer B 'Hornet' and 'Wasp' headphones,I've become a bit spoiled now using wireless headphones as I have 3 Garrett Apex units, each with their own set of Z-Lynk MX-3's and the AT Pro Pointer to use with them. I used to enjoy some Electronic Prospecting, as it was called early-on in the mid to late '70s and on into the early '80s. After injuring my back when I worked at Compass Electronics that started to impact my mobility to handle tougher terrain as it worsened in '91 and when I started using a cane in early '93, Nugget Hunting was just about over. If I could still enjoy it, the 24K would be in my arsenal. Monte