Monte

It's a continuation of good news. The first was when White's brought out the MX-7 to provide consumers with a land-based MX-Sport, in a lighter-weight package and especially with the rear-positioned ¼" Headphone Jack.👍 Then they used that very good physical package to bring us the 24K, and personally I was fond of the Bengal Orange MX-7 and also the desert-tan color of the 24K. Of everything they acquired from White's, the 24K and then the MX-7 would be the two models I would think they could concentrate on, especially the 24K to have a very good higher-frequency dedicated Gold Nugget Hunting device. I would like to see the MS-3 Z-Lynk headphones adapted to it, and I agree with Jell in favoring the Garrett rod design over what White's offered. Use the same Garrett grip as found on the AT's and Apex devices, and maybe address the VDI read-out and Discrimination circuity to make it a more versatile or flexible-use detector. Just random thoughts until we see what the folks at Garrett came up with.❓❓ Monte

My Tesoro Bandido II µMAX and Silver Sabre µMAX and Nokta FORS Relic are not 'updateable' and they work just fine. As you mentioned, a lot of detectors, today or in the past, were not update worth. However, keep in mind that a consumer does not HAVE to do the updates' either. In this case, all four of my Apex devices (the three I use and the one I keep on-hand as a 'loaner-unit') worked just fine before the update and continue to. But manufacturers didn't / don't always get things right in the first place. A lot of the detectors we have had were analog circuitry and were not easily updateable. They required 'service' or 'repair' in which case the manufacturer could make hard-component changes to improve their performance or add / change certain functions.. Tesoro and White's, to name just two, were manufacturers who had models that had glitches and required hardware changes or internal trimmer adjustments because they lacked the digital design that might allow a consumer to update them remotely. And I am referring to models from two or three hundred dollars to some a grand or more. Yes, some work good right out-of-the-box, but that doesn't mean they couldn't have been better, and with some brands and models today folks have done an upgrade / update, only to go back to an original version. So in this thread I have 4 Apex devices, and they were actually two different 'versions', but that was simply changes made in production design. The difference now is we have some user updates available ... not required. Monte

Many, many hobbyists can have a difficult time distinguishing ferrous targets from non-ferrous. Part of that is due to the particular shape of the ferrous object, how man shaped the alloyed object into something that enhances conductivity, such as those blasted crown-type Bottle Caps. You also have Iron Nails that that are not a nice-and-proper straight design and best oriented to the coil. Instead, they might be bent, positioned at an awkward angle, and the Nail 'head' is 90° to the Nail-body and all those variables can have a challenging impact on the EMF as it encounters the hidden object. ALL manufacturers should be working on improving the performance of their product line, and it isn't always so easy. Many tasks were easily handles with some of those earlier analog-circuitry detectors that are more of a challenge today with a lot of the digitally-designed circuitry models, and to often make things tougher is that most manufacturers have followed the trendy move to Double-D search coil types and do not offer, or only have a limited offering, of Concentric coils. Concentric coils will generally provide more accurate Target ID than a DD, better Discrimination than a DD, and even slightly more depth-of-detection than a comparable-size DD. We, the consumers, have to deal with some of the so-called modern trends in detector design, and that means learning to ignore some of the marketing hype, then select the best coils we can for the types of sites we hunt and trash-target challenges we typically face, and a detector that we happen to like and enjoy using.. Learn each detector well, really well, to know their strengths and weaknesses, and my decades-old encouragement is to own two or more detectors that can complement each other in order to select the best tool for the task a-at-hand. I have a couple of Nokta / Makro devices, and my two all-time favorite Tesoro's, but my primary-use TID / Tone ID detectors are my three Garrett Apex devices, sporting different search coils. Monte PS: All of my Apex models worked well recently, and the first I updated the .25 software models to .28. I compared them with my original Apex that I got immediately upon their release which had the .23 software. After comparing all of them, my original Apex still worked fine, but I could tell some subtle enhancement differences favoring the new update. Last Friday evening we updated my 'original' Apex to .28 since it is my primary-use detector, and I am leased.

What is the speaker impedance?

I also favor smaller-size coils on most detectors, and I am sure you're going to enjoy the 'Ripper' 5X8 DD coil. I keep that attached to my most-used Apex for all my day-to-day detecting. The only detector I have that keeps a standard / larger-size coil mounted in Apex #2 that sports the 8½X11 DD 'Raider' coil or working plowed fields, wide-open grassy sites, or perhaps a beach. For the very dense debris or vegetation challenges where I want an even smaller-size coil, my 3rd Apex keeps the NEL 5" DD 'Sharp' coil at-the-ready. I would be glad to replace that with a round 4½" Concentric coil .... if Garrett would only make one for the Apex. The 'Ripper' DD is always a first-grab set-up when I arrive anywhere as it is light-weight, comfortable to use, and very efficient in performance. It looks like I have my selected house in the processing stage so today I plan to put my Apex & 'Ripper' to work. Oh, and I'm glad to hear you are thawing out. We hit 81° yesterday, headed to 85° today, and at 5:20 AM we were cooled down to 61°. Definitely no snow here making it a pleasant-weather hunt day. Monte

Here's a place to go in 2021 .... Our 13th WTHO, June 9th thru 13th based out of Wells, Nevada. Find a motel room now, or book at one of the two RV parks. There are at least six ghost towns a short drive from Wells that we have hunted, and every outing good finds have been made. A great bunch of people have made attendance regularly, and we get a few new participants on every outing. Past get-togethers have averaged 15 to 25 people per outing, and we spread out so as not to bunch-up and 'over-group' a site. If interested in attending, e-mail me with your name, e-mail address, Mailing Address and Phone Number and I'll put you on the WTHO Contact List. Ask whatever questions you have. Use either of the e-mails listed below. Monte

Welcome-to-Hunt Outings, simply referred to as a WTHO, have been held since the spring/summer of 2015. Our last, as the above link reports, was our 12th WTHO. One was held in Utah, two here in Eastern Oregon, and the remaining 9 have been held in Nevada. Unless or until we need to cough up some $$$ to gain access to a site, the WTHO's are no charge. Nothing more than getting yourself to the Outing, taking care of where you'll stay, be it a motel or an RV Park, and what you eat. They are open to anyone, and we have quite a few people who have made many to most of them. So far, Oregon Gregg has participated in all 12 of the Outings. There are 6 or more ghost towns we search and have based most of the Outings out of Wells, Nevada as a 'hub' since it has places to stay, fuel, food, and makes a great opportunity for attendees to get together. We only held one last year and the Covid issue created some problems or some folks to make the outing. This year we haven't panned one, yet, because the virus is still being an annoyance. Also, my health took a down-turn and tomorrow, Friday, makes 10 weeks since I got a bad bite from the bug, and my recuperation and recovery is moving very sluggishly along. Coupled with that I am trying to sell my place and, if I do, I'll be making a move to central Texas. I am, however, sending out an e-mail this weekend and making a post on my Forums to see how many would be interested in a WTHO #13 back to Wells. As you can see from the post, and if you were to red the reports fro all the past WTHO results, you'd see that a lot of great finds are made every Outing. If we come up with an Outing Date, usually a Wednesday thru Sunday, I am sure OregonGregg would enjoy being the Host in Wells. On the average, our Outing turnouts have been quite good, with 15 to 25 people participating in each of the dozen Outings we have held so far. If my house hasn't sold to bring about the move, I'll be making that outing as well. As I stated, they are free and anyone is welcome. Bring friends and family, and we do have a few families that make the outings, too. If you would like some direct information, just drop me an e-mail and indicate you want information about the WTHO's. You can reach me at: monte@ahrps.org ... or at ... monte@stinkwaterwells.com MOnte

The "particular kind" of detecting I do is 'multi-purpose' or 'general-purpose' in that I enjoy hunting any type of site I might encounter, be it Urban or Remote, littered or not. I like to use a detector that is versatile enough w/o being overly cluttered with unnecessary adjustment fluff. I like to use a detector that provides me with one, two or possibly three good search coil choices to handle a variety of tasks. I prefer a detector that is lighter-weight, comfortable to use, and has ample adjustment functions for my needs, can handle common Iron nail an other ferrous debris better-than-average, provides a quick-response and recovery, and has a good audio quality for my hearing. The Garrett Apex checks all,those boxes and is a pleasure to use. There is no 'perfect' detector, so I keep an assortment in my Regular-Use Detector Team for various applications. I o have my Tesoro Bandido II µMAX and Silver Sabre µMAX, and for places like tot-lots, the Silver Sabre µMAX can make quick work of them where visual and audible Target ID isn't useful. The Nokta FORS CoRe, and especially the FORS Relic, are both outfitted with their smaller-size coil, and that's all I use on them when I put them to work in some of the toughest, most densely-contaminated ferrous debris sites. Those would include some of the very challenging ghost towns we hunt from the 1860 to 1920's era. Other than those 'special application' models I do have a waterproof Simplex + w/5X9½ DD for times and places where I might get wet, or the detector could take a dunk in the water, even if unintended .... and that happens. Otherwise, I have found the Apex, with the three coils I keep mounted on them full-time, to be a very good general-purpose detector that is very light and well balanced. That works great for my impaired mobility. Monte

I'm not Jeff, but I would also take the AT Max over the AT Pro. Why? The AT Max offers a Threshold-based All Metal mode and the AT Pro and Apex do not have a true All Metal mode. Also, I only had short use of a borrowed AT Max but I liked its performance over the AT Pro I compared it with. Monte

On a scale of '0' to '10' I rate the Apex a solid '30.' How did I get '30' you wonder? Simple, I have three of the Apex Z-Lynk package in my personal detector outfit, so '10' X 3 = '30'. For my grab-and-go set-up to handle most day-to-day hunting locations, I keep the really nice 5X8 DD 'Ripper' coil mounted full-time on my main-use Apex. My #2 Apex I grab when I work more open, sparser-target places, such as a wide-open park, a beach, or a plowed field. That unit keeps the 'Raider' coil mounted which is their 8½X11 DD. Apex #3 is ready-to-grab when i get into tight vegetation, rocks, building rubble, or very debris-filled locations where smaller-is-better, and that unit sports the NEL 'Sharp' 5" DD coil. I'll add here that I really hope Garrett can find a way to offer their 4½" Concentric coil designed to work on the Apex. I've had very good results with that coil in the past with other Garrett models. As I stated, all three Apex devices are 'complete Z-Lynk packages.' That is, all three have their own MS-3 wireless headphones paired to them, and all three have their own Z-Lynk AT Pro-Pointer as well. I don't like to take time afield and change search coils, so since the early '70s I have preferred to keep different detectors with me that have different coils mounted for different tasks at-hand. Winter crept in and hampered my ability to get out as much as I wanted, and then I have been dealing with a bad case of this Covid 19 stuff and recovering from that, but I really like the physical packaging, the ample, yet simple, settings and mode design of the Apex, and performance for me has been very satisfying. And I have put my units against a variety of other makes and models I have had or currently own in my detector group. A mistake I feel Garrett made was tagging the 'Ace' name to the Apex. It is not an Ace series in any way and stands alone, right now, as an impressive sole-member of the 'Apex series.' I did have a noisy behavior issue with one of my first two units, but a quick call and it was off to Garrett where they took care of it and got it back to me quickly, and working fine. Monte

I have had and used both the 4" Concentric and 5" Double-D on an Omega 8000, Omega 6500, Fisher F5 and Fisher F44. They work well, but they work 'differently' based on the settings and the site environment. Of the two, if I had only one choice, it would the the 5" DD for my average hunting needs. Another coil I used most of the time on all of these models for 'general-purpose' detecting, was the 7" Concentric coil. Very good discrimination, very acceptable depth-of-detection, and it had a really nice balance and feel. Just my thoughts. Monte

It isn't hard to 're-pair' the headphones from one unit to the other. However, I might be hunting with my oldest (49) and youngest (39) sons, and if I loan them an Apex, it will have the MS-3 Headphones and AT Pro-Pointer all ready-to-go for each detector. If I want to use a different coil, I just grab the unit with that col mounted and it takes but a moment to swap the headphones and Pro-Pointer as well. Then everything stays paired by the 'set' for Apex #1 w/5X8 'Ripper', Apex #2 w/8½X11 'Raider;' and Apex #3 w/5" DD 'NEL Sharp. Monte

A large-than-stock coil is something I very seldom, ever, put to use. If something slightly different in size, I might consider it. I have a new NEL Super Fly I need to sell for a T2 because a fellow bought the T2+ w/5" DD specifically for gold nugget hunting. But when I tested the Super Fly here indoors against the 11" BiAxial, the Super Fly was very quiet regarding EMI. The weight and balance and feel are exceptional! But for my Apex hunting needs, a "bigger-size coil" is actually their own 8½X11 'Raider' coil. It worked well and I keep it mounted full-time on Apex #2 just to be ready for plowed fields and other open-areas with minimal trash. And that is exactly how I have all three of my Apex devices .... with their own MS-3 wireless headphones and their own AT ProPointer w/Z-Lynk technology. When i grab a particular Apex with h coil mounted I want to use, I just open the tot and use the headphones and ProPointer that are ready and paired to that device. Monte

Both Concentric and Double-D types have their strengths and weaknesses. Just so many blasted DD's on the market that I'd enjoy having a Garrett 4½" Concentric for the Apex. Yes, the smaller DD's can do okay for jewelry and such, but so can the smaller Concentric coils. I am enjoying the Apex devices, and at times I do wish they had a Threshold-based All Metal mode, but your AT Pro doesn't have All Metal, either. Yes, the Apex has a good deal of 'Sensitivity' and performance-level engineering. Dollar-for-dollar it is a really good unit. Monte

I've seen good performance with a NEL 5" 'Sharp' and 'Snake' on a couple of models, and the new Super Fly on a Tek. T2+. Due to winter and my recent / current battle with some health issues, I have only been able to check out the NEL Sharp on the Apex briefly. So far it is working OK. However, I am going to be checking it out soon in a salt water environment because I hear the Apex and some NEL coils were not working well in the Multi-Salt function. I need detectors AND coils that are fully functional. Not sure what 5" you are referring to for a Tesoro Compadre??? Do you mean the thin-profile coil that advertised as a 5.75? Dumb marketing like White's used because that coil is what I keep on all three of my Tesoro's full-time, and it measures almost exactly right at 6" diameter. Yes, I am definitely enjoying the new Apex. It is more detector than some have given it credit for, and I especially like the 'Ripper' and 'Raider' coils for different applications. I'll mount the NEL Sharp on the new Apex I have coming, but sure hope Garrett can make the 4½" Concentric work on the MF Apex. Thanks for the well wishes. Monte

I borrowed an AT MAX w/4½" 'Sniper', and way back twenty years ago I had a GTI 2500 with on, and had one for a 1350. And that's the point I like to note is that the 4½" Concentric coil has been around or a long, long time or almost every model in their line-up. That's why I'd like to have one for the new APEX. Especially since it is a Concentric type design. I have / have-had the out-of-round 5" for a Nokta CoRe and Makro Racer, a 5" for a Nokta Relic and Makro Racer 2, pus the Impact, Multi-Kruzer and Anfibio Multi. A 5" on a Fisher F44, F19 and F5, as well as a slightly larger 5¾" on the Vista 'X'. But every one of those is a Double-D design. I really want to see the Concentric coil continue in the Garrett product line. Monte

My primary-use Garrett Apex sports the excellent 5X8 DD 'Ripper' coil that is ideal for most of the places I like to hunt, in town or rural and remote. On my 2nd Apex I keep the really functional 8½X11 DD 'Raider' coil mounted for working plowed fields, similar range-land, or wide-open / sparse-target parks and similar places. I ordered my 3rd Apex just to keep the smallest search coil mounted where it needs to fit in and around and between dense brush, rocks, building rubble, etc., etc. For now I am going to mount the new NEL 5" 'Sharp' DD coil because that is the smaller coil currently available for the Apex. I've been hoping for them to offer their functional 4½" Concentric coil, if it is designable for the Apex. It can be worked on the single-frequency models and i am hoping it can be made to work on the Apex. I like smaller 4½ to 5" coils to get in and around really tight cover, especially Relic Hunting older sites. Plus I would like it to be a Concentric coil deign for the Apex in that smaller-size. I have used DD coils as well since 1971, and while I have DD coils now for my three Apex, and on my V-540 and Simplex +, I have Concentric coils o my XLT, F5 and two favorite Tesoro models. There's a time and a place where both coil types have some advantages, so I'll keep hoping. I'm curious how many Garrett users currently make use of the 4½" Concentric coil on which models, and do any of you have a desire for one for the Apex? Monte

One problem is that some notching is going to cut in on some of the better targets and they won't 'pop-out' at you because a bad target is too close to a desired target and the 'blended' conductivity response can degrade the good-targets and shuffle it into a 'bad-target' notch range. Also, just this year, using a Vanquish 540 which shares the same VDI read-out as the Equinox series, I've had US 'War Nickel' with partial silver as well as older Buffalo Nickels respond solidly with a '15', and some that bounced between '10' & '11' . In both cases they were found in a more littered area with some smaller Iron Nails or larger-size ferrous junk near then to under them an inch or two. Equally, in some other places, homesteads and old town sites, I have had early Wheat-Back Cents and Indian Head Cents produce very solid '17' or '18' VDI lock-on responses. Coins are not the only targets I am after. Not just the commonly-carried coins, but some of the older of different denominations, such as 'fatty' Flying Eagle or Indian Head Cents, Large Cents, Half-Cents, 3¢ Silver or Nickel-based coins, Half-Dimes, and all sorts of sizes, shapes and alloy-content Trade Tones. And if coins and tokens can be lost, so can gold or silver jewelry, and that's not limited to rings.. Besides, there are other nice finds out there just waiting to be discovered, and I prefer not to miss anything good if I can help it. Exactly, and that's the better approach to take, in my opinions as well. I keep my Discrimination as low as I can tolerate, and reduce Iron Audio Volume, if a detector has it, and work a site and recover all the favorable responses. Some won't be good, but removing them can also help unmask a good desirable target that was otherwise masked. Monte

Hey everyone, new to the forum, so please go easy on me as I ask my first stupid question of what is likely to be many.. 'Welcome' to Steve's Forums, and back into this great sport. I've blown all my "hobby budget" (or technically my wife did buying me a present). Getting the Minelab Vanquish 540 for Christmas to go do some beach hunting this summer... .. The Vanquish 540 is a very good detector. I've been enjoying this sport for over 55 years now, have a good set of detectors in my outfit, to include a V-540 Pro Pack and a 2nd V-540 is due to be delivered tomorrow. I'll keep the 5X8 on the one I use the most now and have the 9X12 on the 2nd unit to be at-the-ready for wide-open areas, such as a beach, open grassy park, plowed field, etc. So I am facing 2 options: Just suck it up, and wait. The Vanquish has a pinpoint mode, and that is probably good enough to do my first couple hunts. Then I should be able to afford a decent pinpointer such as: Nokta Pulsedive, which is about $200 NZD locally, shipped. Minelab Profind 35, which is about $265 NZD locally, shipped. Gold Century Pinpointer, which is about $99 NZD locally, shipped. (seems like a bit of an "unknown quantity", not much about this brand) "Cheap Out" and get a random non-known brand, imported one from Amazon, which I can justify now because it's dirt cheap, and then upgrade later on.... I have 3 Pinpointer that serve me well. My #1 most reliable is my Nokta / Makro Pulse-Dive Pointer. I use it with my Simplex + because it pairs with the headphones, and I also use it with FORS CoRe, FORS Relic, XLT, Bandido II µMAX and Silver Sabre µMAX and F5. I have the Garrett 'Carrot' AT w/Z-Lynk that I use with my two Apex devices along with my MS3 headphones. The 3rd Pinpointer I have is a White's BullsEye II. Not the same as my two trusted pinpointers, but it works fine and thy have lasted me better than the China-made knock-offs. I piked up a brand new in-the-box BullsEye II very reasonably, and I have it on-hand to use as a 'loaner unit' for friends and family. Monte

Congratulation of unmasking a keeper-coin. 'V' and Shield Nickers are some of my favorite finds in old-use locations, but it can be a challenge to find the better, uncontaminated places where they can come out relatively clean. Fertilize and other chemical issues in many sites can really mess up the nickel, especially due to their alloy make-up. Glad you got out, and 'Thank You' for including the detector model and settings info. Monte

Don't. There's no good reason to hold the coil in the air, and doing so makes it far more susceptible to EMI problems. Just turn it on at a proper search coil height or ±2" from the ground. That can help reduce some EMI intrusion. Then work away from sources, such as an invisible dog fence, etc.

I guess for some people, with certain applications and/or with mid-size to larger-size targets to go after, some of the 'aftermarket' search coils might be helpful. For me and the types of places I usually hunt, big-size coils are not the answer. Helpful at times, yes, but not when a location has too many targets, too closely spaced and at varying depths. I know we can'r simply go by a coil brand or model / size just because a similar coil worked OK on a different make & model due to different circuitry. In this case, I used to evaluate and use several Detech coils on Minelab FBS series models, and most of them were okay. But I tried a 13" Ultimate on a couple of other brand detectors and didn't care for the weight and balance, nor the performance. I've used some bigger-size NEL coils, a brand I like better, but the coil and detector were not a good match for the location I worked. To me it is interesting to see how many people gravitate to larger-size search coils. With the Apex and for the variety of urban and remote places I go, I'm comfortable with the Ripper mounted on one unit as a general-purpose coil. I'll give the NEL 5" 'Sharp'some serious time and most likely it will fill a void and be mounted on my 2nd Apex. For open grassy parks or hitting a plowed field, the new 'Raider' DD is likely to be my coil-of-choice and I don't see a larger-size coil providing me much improvement n smaller-size coins and the like. I am going to check out a few aftermarket coils n some 'depth tests' on US coins, but I am not holding out hopes of improvement. Monte

Mike, Congrats on the jewelry finds, and just being able to get out hunting. Curious which coils you prefer on the Euro-Tek Pro and Omega 8500, at least for the sites you were hunting? I hope you'll have some opportunities an cooperating weather to get out again soon. Monte

Usually. I haven't been a big fan of after-market coils because most f the hunting I've done the past 37 years ash been very ferrous-contaminated sites a good 85% of the time. For that, the better coils have been smaller-than-stock and I've noted that generally a detector maker also provides a decent-performing smaller-size coil. The big trend for a lot of after-marker coil makers was to offer larger-size coils, and they just didn't fit my needs. There was a period, however, when I was using some FBS models and evaluated a lot of the after-market coils from 4½X7 on up to 12" and larger, and for big urban city parks they worked OK, but they were usually heavier than the standard coils. i mainly tried aftermarket coils on Minelab, White's and then some on Nokta or Makro products, and of them all I was most pleased by the Sharpshooter, Snake and Sharp coils from NEL .... but while I liked their build quality and performance, I already had good-working coils from the detector maker in the smaller to mid-size coil categories. However, some manufacturers do not offer smaller-size coil for some of their models, such as Nokta / Makro for their Simplex + r Garrett for their Apex, so I am eager to get a NEL Sharp 5" DD for both of those models and give them a serious workout in an assortment of locations, and I would guess I will enjoy some improved performance and handing in the trashier environments. But I have been transitioning back into more urban Coin & Jewelry Hunting and considered working a good aftermarket coil in the wide-open places, but with my mobility limitations I definitely didn't want to go to a heavier search coil. I enjoy the round 11" on the Simplex ... but I never liked the looks or, or the feel, or the rod-mount point, or the performance of the 11" BiAxial coils on a FTP device. I do like the T2 series so I bought a new T2+ as well as the NEL Super Fly to give it a try in plowed fields and open grassy parks. Impressive! Rod-mount is centered, weight is remarkably light and comfortable, and so far in my evaluating I have found it to work well, with VDI read-outs that have been tighter and better than with the 11" BiAxial coil. If we don't get snow this evening, and there's a possibility, the ground will be good and we might hit 45° on Tuesday and I plan to give it another work-out. Might just keep a Super Fly and 5" DD combination with a T2+ around.

I've been a long-time White's users, since the summer f '68. I currently have my 38th XLT and have owned one since June of '94. The XLT is not an Eagle Spectrum circuitry in a different housing, it is a unit unto itself. The first XLT software Version was the 1.0 and not too long after they made a few mode changes and it became Version 1.1 .... and that was it. Those were the only 'Version' changes made to the XLT. There were some other changes along the way as some components were no longer available that White's used, such as the Display Back-light brightness. Originally it was a very noticeable increase from Off to Low to the Brightest (highest) setting, but there came a time when what they didn't produce as bright a back-lighted display. So there were a few changes along the way. like gong to a different brand tire on a vehicle, but the 'Version' would have been a 1.0 or 1.1 and that's it. Monte